# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Mechanical free energy devices => Reactive Power usage => Topic started by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 12:28:51 AM

Title: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 12:28:51 AM
Hi everyone,

Today I found an interesting youtube video demo by Tanju Argun
I have invited Tanju to join this forum to further discus his device and measurements.
I will closely monitor this topic so it stays on topic and posts are respectful. Anything other will be edited or deleted out.
Please feel free to post your questions which once answered I will add to the Q&A list at the bottom this post so we can easily find them in one place.

Thanks

Hi Guys!
First of all, let me assure you that this is not one of those “fake videos” on radiant energy.
Please trust me. I am not after fame at this age of 70. I just want to share my discoveries.
My name is Tanju Argun and I have a Master’s degree in Electronics Engineering.
What we have here is an “Overunity” Device, Thanks to Nicola Tesla (Our Father), Tom Bearden and John Bedini.
Here we have an Input Power of Half Paid 75 Watts. (Half Paid because during the day battery is charged by my solar panels. Plus, I have the input power from the gravitational energy of a 33 Kgm fywheel’s Moment Of Inertia. Also, there are 12 neodymium (Nd) power magnets on the rim of the flywheel all facing North.
The output is an “UNBELIAVABLE” 270 Watts Electrical PLUS 650 watts of mechanical power.
Those 15 20 Watt Power LED s each delivering 18 Watts, plus a rotating shaft with a torque of 50 Newton-meters where you can attach an extra generator.
How do we achieve this? What are we doing to upset “The Conservation of Energy Law”?
We are not upsetting the law. The difference between the output and the input power is compensated by radiant energy of our open system.
Of Course, the gravitational power of the flywheel contributes a lot but it is not the major contributor.
In 1993 Tom Bearden came up with the idea of “Massless Displacement Current”. I was inspired by that.
As you might know there is a process called “The Skin Effect” where Electrons, before forming a current, must travel from the center of a conductor to the peripheric rim to travel. The time, the electrons traverse from center to the rim is called the” Relaxation Time”. We are talking Microseconds here.
So, what I am simply doing here is, just letting a big Capacitor to sniff the Potential of a 24 volts Battery for only 100 Microseconds. During these 100 microseconds, electrons start to move to outside perimeter of the conductor to start the current. But unfortunate for them time is not enough to form the current. Instead those trapped electrons just attain a “Potential Gradient “across them. So, the capacitor gets the Potential Difference across it with minimum current, which is called the “Massless Displacement Current”.
In analogy; the young man “the capacitor”, just catches -a glimpse of a passing by super-mini skirted young lady- “the battery”.
Capacitor is loaded with minimum power.
Ideal case is to use iron wire or doped conductors and plates to block the electrons from forming a current by increasing the “Relaxation Time”.
After 100 microseconds, the Mosfet switch (Blue) opens and disconnects the battery from the capacitor.
Another Mosfet switch (Yellow) closes and connects the loaded capacitor to the load for just 1 millisecond (In our case the load is the Bedini wheels and Coils).
After that millisecond when both Blue and Yellow switches open, this time the Red mosfet switch connects the charger to the battery when nothing else is connected. Red switch connection time is adjustable.
All these timing operations and void loop is controlled by an Arduino Uno micro-computer composed of a simple sketch of time delays.
And here you can see the real circuitry.
If you need more details please do not hesitate to contact me on my e-mail tanjuargun [at] gmail.com and subscribe to my channel for further device videos on free energy.

Basic details from Tanju:
Hi everybody
Thank you all for the interest in my project,
I will try to answer your questions but please bear in mind that, it is still in evolution and I am changing and trying new ideas everyday.
Since I posted the video I have increased the number of PowerLeds to 21  (7 parallel branches 3 series in each)
The device gives an output voltage of 80 volts so 80/3 is across each LED, (T hese LED s are 28 volt 20 Watt (spec))
I can measure the input power accurately but the output power not so accurate ,input power from the battery is 75 watts.
I have problems measuring the output. (Cold electricity), I will try to measure the Lumens of Leds and convert it to power somehow but yet I dont know how to do that.
By the way 21 LEDs give an incredible projector illumination and they do not get hot. There are no heatsinks on powerLeds.
The 80 v0lt output is collected from the Bedini coil transistors collector diodes. There are 4 coils on the main wheel which is also the 33 Kg Flywheel.
The other two wheels (Bicycle and wooden) are energised from one of the coils of the main wheel.
The Flwheel is very powerful. Once it attains max speed very difficult to stop. Definitely not by hand braking!
The main wheel coils are energized from the voltage (24 volts) across the capacitor which is intermittent and alternately connecting to the load and battery .
100 Microseconds to Battery then 1 milliseconds to the load. These time delays depend on the conductive material or capacitor u use.
In my case I am using a rusty wire (iron). To increase the relaxation time. I am am still playig with those time delays to achieve the minimum power from battery with maximum voltage.
Changing the time delays easy because I am using an Arduino uno controlling the Mosfet switches which connect the capacitor to load and battery alternately.
Thank you. I will give more details in time
Tanju

Other Questions and Answers by Tanju:

Q: Are the output LED's Powered directly by coils Inductive discharge (flyback) DC spikes or are the discharge spikes smoothed by a capacitor?
A: The coil Inductive discharge (flyback) output are connected to 66000uf capacitor which the 21 power LED load are continuously connected to.

Q: Are the output power LED's connected in Series?
A: The 21 power LED's are connected 3 in series x 7 parallel branches connected to 66000uf capacitor maintained at 80vdc.

Updated Schematic to come:
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: TinselKoala on June 24, 2017, 02:59:10 AM
I have some questions about the output mechanical power measurement. And of course the usual questions/challenges about self-looping.

What happens when you put a genuine 3/4 horsepower load on the shaft of the heavy flywheel, using for example a prony brake or other dissipative system?

If it is really producing 650 watts of mechanical power you should be able to connect an off-the-shelf windmill-type generator of, say, 80 percent efficiency, and then loop that back to the input of the system and it should keep running forever, without _any_ conventional source of power like batteries, mains, or solar panels. Does it?

If not, how long does it take to run down and stop?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: endlessoceans on June 24, 2017, 03:09:06 AM
With all due respect to the designer Tanju, I have the same query as TK.  BTW, thank you for sharing and well done on your work (even if not OU)

Scientific query.......Why bother with the Solar aspect and the Bedini portion as this is totally unnecessary for OU (if it exists in this prototype)??

Running a battery at the front end and with those claimed numbers, you should be able to easily have a minimum 1.8 batteries charged up at the output. and just keep cycling or add more circuits to pyramid the output.

Look forward to hearing whether you have achieved this or whether the measurements are just on paper.

LED lighting as a load is not a terribly accurate indication of output either.

Oceans
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 11:17:24 AM
Hi everybody
Thank you all for the interst in my project,
I will try to answer your questions but please bear in mind that, it is still in evolution and I am changing and trying new ideas everyday.
Since I posted the video I have increased the number of PowerLeds to 21  (7 parallel branches 3 series in each)
The device gives an output voltage of 80 volts so 80/3 is across each LED, (T hese LED s are 28 volt 20 Watt (spec))
I can measure the input power accurately but the output power not so accurate ,input power from the battery is 75 watts.
I have problems measuring the output. (Cold electricity), I will try to measure the Lumens of Leds and convert it to power somehow but yet I dont know how to do that.
By the way 21 LEDs give an incredible projector illumination and they do not get hot. There are no heatsinks on powerLeds.
The 80 v0lt output is collected from the Bedini coil transistors collector diodes. There are 4 coils on the main wheel which is also the 33 Kg Flywheel.
The other two wheels (Bicycle and wooden) are energised from one of the coils of the main wheel.
The Flwheel is very powerful. Once it attains max speed very difficult to stop. Definitely not by hand braking!
The main wheel coils are energised fom the voltage( 24 vols) across the capacitor wvich is intermittendly and alternately connecting to the load and battery .
100 Microseconds to Battery then 1 milliseconds to the load. These time delays depend on the conductive material or capacitor u use.
In my case I am using a rusty wire (iron). To increase the relaxation time. I am am still playig with those time delays to achieve the minimum power from battery with maximum voltage.
Changing the time delays easy because I am using an Arduino uno controlling the Mosfet switches which connect the capacitor to load and battery alternately.
Thank you. I will give more details in time
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 11:33:42 AM
With all due respect to the designer Tanju, I have the same query as TK.  BTW, thank you for sharing and well done on your work (even if not OU)

Scientific query.......Why bother with the Solar aspect and the Bedini portion as this is totally unnecessary for OU (if it exists in this prototype)??

Running a battery at the front end and with those claimed numbers, you should be able to easily have a minimum 1.8 batteries charged up at the output. and just keep cycling or add more circuits to pyramid the output.

Look forward to hearing whether you have achieved this or whether the measurements are just on paper.

LED lighting as a load is not a terribly accurate indication of output either.

Oceans

The answer to this is that it is the Bedini wheel and the powerful Neo magnets which gives the rotational force. Thus getting the 80 volt output from the  back emf of the coils. Without the Bedini it is not possible. Solar is just for adding the missing charge to the battery. But actually you may be right with just the massless displacement portion you may be able to charge small batteries without rotation.
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 03:09:11 PM
I can measure the input power accurately but the output power not so accurate ,input power from the battery is 75 watts.
I have problems measuring the output.

Dear Tanju,
Please understand that using LED's to visually measure output power on a Overunity device is not an acceptable power measurement method since your output is most likely sharp high voltage DC spikes collected form the coils inductive discharge Diode when Coils are switched off. Using LED's as output load with high DC Voltage Pulses will fool your visual capabilities giving an appearance the LED's are fully lit but it's not the case as your eye cannot tell the LED's off times at frequencies in the kHz range. This resulting in very inaccurate (non linear) power assessment and a hint as to why the LED's are not getting warm compared to using DC to power them.
Consider instead of LED's on the output adding a large capacitor of 20,000uf or more with the appropriate Load Resistor to achieve desired DC output voltage. Once all the inductive discharge pulses get smoothed out to DC in the capacitor you will know the correct output Voltage and if you you know the Load Resistor value you will know exactly how many Watts your output is. Without this you are guessing at best.

Kind regards

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 04:30:13 PM
Dear Tanju,
Please understand that using LED's to visually measure output power on a Overunity device is not an acceptable power measurement method since your output is most likely sharp high voltage DC spikes collected form the coils inductive discharge Diode when Coils are switched off. Using LED's as output load with high voltage Pulses will fool your visual capabilities giving an appearance the LED's are fully lit but it's not the case as your eye cannot tell the off times at frequencies in the kHz range. This resulting in very inaccurate power assessment and a hint as to why the LED's are not getting warm like using DC to power them.
Consider instead of LED's on the output adding a large capacitor of 20,000uf or more with the appropriate Load Resistor to achieve desired output voltage. Once all the inductive discharge pulses get smoothed out to DC in the capacitor you will know the Voltage and if you you know the Load Resistor value you will know exactly how many Watts your output is. Without this you are guessing at best.

Kind regards

Luc

I already have a second big capacitor which smooths all spikes so the led power is solid 80 volt dc from that capacitor.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 04:38:45 PM
I already have a second big capacitor which smooths all spikes so the led power is solid 80 volt dc from that capacitor.

Thanks for confirming this Tanju... that's good news because that's one of the biggest problems with OU claims.
Can you tell us the value of your output smoothing capacitor.
Can you also test the output using a Load Resistor (about 25 Ohms) to give 270 Watts at 80vdc instead of the LED's and report the results.
Maybe a water heating element can be used as power resistor?

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 04:44:35 PM
With all due respect to the designer Tanju, I have the same query as TK.  BTW, thank you for sharing and well done on your work (even if not OU)

Scientific query.......Why bother with the Solar aspect and the Bedini portion as this is totally unnecessary for OU (if it exists in this prototype)??

Running a battery at the front end and with those claimed numbers, you should be able to easily have a minimum 1.8 batteries charged up at the output. and just keep cycling or add more circuits to pyramid the output.

Look forward to hearing whether you have achieved this or whether the measurements are just on paper.

LED lighting as a load is not a terribly accurate indication of output either.

Oceans

I have not actually measured the mechanical power output. I dont have the means to do so. My 650 watts is calculation knowing the rpm . dimensions and weight of the flywheel you can reach angular
momentum and moment of inertia thus power and energy. I know I can connect a pigtail generator. I know this because I almost lost my hand trying to handbrake the flywheel.
I do not have a generator or motor available and I dont have good mechanical construction skills. But I will do that.
Thanks
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: itsu on June 24, 2017, 04:46:51 PM
Luc,

here the circuit from the video:

Itsu
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 05:03:23 PM
The final output capacitor which feeds the Leds (80 volts is 66000 Micro (2 times 33000)
The schematic from the video is a bit old there are some  changes, I will post final schematic later. Once it is final because I am still playing with it.
But basic concept is the same. You see-saw a capacitor between BEDİNİ LOAD AND A 24 VOLT BATTERY alternatelyş
Bedini circuit is modified. The collector output diodes connect to 66000 micro cap pos terminal, neg terminal  of cap to a diode and to ground.
It is across this cap the 80 volts feeding the powerLEDs.
Note When you put this capacitor you dont need the neon lamps which protect the transistors in original Bedini.
tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: popolibero on June 24, 2017, 05:24:58 PM
Hi Tanju and all,

thanks for sharing your setup. Since you have a cap on the output, even just measuring output amps and volts should give a decent idea of the output power you are achieving in the load leds.

regards,
Mario
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: icarus on June 24, 2017, 05:27:12 PM
Hello Tanju,
could you post the program code for arduino ?

Thanx
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 05:37:17 PM
My Problem is: I cannot see the current , just milliamps.
When I connect  1 (One) LED to   a 28 volt power supply I read 0.7 Amps and it gets real hot.
But when I connect 21 LEDs to my system I get the same illumination level on each LED  (LUMENS) but the current I measure is only .30 Amps for all 21 LEDs and no heat!
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 05:38:24 PM
The final output capacitor which feeds the Leds (80 volts is 66000 Micro (2 times 33000)
When I connect 1 (One) LED to a 28 volt power supply I read 0.7 Amps and it gets real hot.
But when I connect 21 LEDs to my system I get the same illumination level on each LED (LUMENS) but the current I measure is only .30 Amps for all 21 LEDs and no heat!

Are the LED's continuously powered by the 80 vdc 66000uf capacitor or are the LED's momentarily powered on by a mosfet switch?

The schematic from the video is a bit old there are some  changes, I will post final schematic later. Once it is final because I am still playing with it.

When you have a schematic update I can update it to the first post so all can easily find it.

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 05:50:47 PM
Hello Tanju,
could you post the program code for arduino ?

Thanx

//////////// Designed by Tanju Argun-- Date March 2017--

int outPin8 = 8;
int outPin9 = 9;
int outPin10 = 10;

int i=0;
float vin0 = 0.0;
float vin4 = 0.0;
float vin5 = 0.0;
float vout0 = 0.0;
float vout4 = 0.0;
float vout5 = 0.0;
float delayms = 0.0;

float R1 = 4700.0; //
float R2 = 1000.0; //
float value0 = 0.0;
float value4 = 0.0;
float value5 = 0.0;

void setup() {

Serial.begin(9600);

}

void loop() {

int i=1;
for (i = 0; i <50 ; i=i+1) {

digitalWrite(9,HIGH);  // Connects Capacitor to Battery
delayMicroseconds((100));
digitalWrite(9,LOW);
delayMicroseconds((100));
delayMicroseconds((1000));
digitalWrite(8,LOW);

// delay((1));
}
Serial.print("POT= ");
Serial.println(vin0, 2);
Serial.print("BAT= ");
Serial.println(vin4, 2);
Serial.print("CHG= ");
Serial.println(vin5, 2);
delayms=vin0*155;
Serial.print("delayms= ");
Serial.println(delayms, 5);
value0=0;
value4=0;
value5=0;
if ((vin5 > vin4) &&  (vin4 <= 27.0 ))
{

if (  (vin4 <= 25.0 ))
{
delayms=1000*delayms;
}
digitalWrite(10,HIGH);//Connects charger to battery
delay(delayms);
digitalWrite(10,LOW);
delay((1));

}

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 05:56:40 PM
Are the LED's continuously powered by the 80 vdc 66000uf capacitor or are the LED's momentarily powered on by a mosfet switch?

When you have a schematic update I can update it to the first post so all can easily find it.

Thanks

Luc

The capacitor continiously powers the LEDs but The Mosfet switch connects the 100000 micro massles capacitor to this smoothing capacitor every milli second. I do not see any voltage drop on the smoothing cap.
Actually the mosfet switch is connecting the Massless capacitor to Bedini input every milisecond. So the smoothing capacitor is continiously connected to the collector diodes.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 06:09:36 PM
The capacitor continiously powers the LEDs but The Mosfet switch connects the 100000 micro massles capacitor to this smoothing capacitor every milli second. I do not see any voltage drop on the smoothing cap.

Thanks for the reply and confirmation. But I don't understand why your LED's are behaving differently (no heat) since they are connected to a continuous DC source!
Are the LED's connected in Series as you mentioned they are 28vdc?

Something is not right

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: icarus on June 24, 2017, 06:12:36 PM
This part of your code: maybe there is something wrong.

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: popolibero on June 24, 2017, 06:23:28 PM
Hi Tanju,

please correct me if I'm wrong. The battery is pulsed to the C2 cap.  C2 is the supply (pulsed)of the Bedini SG type motor. The output of the SG, which you configured in boost converter mode (as opposed to standard SG), goes to the output cap feeding the leds.

What I don't understand is how C2 is supposed to power the SG the way you connected it? According to your schematic the pos. of C2 is pulsed to the pos. of the output cap, while the neg. of C2 goes to the pos. input of the SG..

thanks,
Mario
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 07:09:34 PM
Hi Tanju,

please correct me if I'm wrong. The battery is pulsed to the C2 cap.  C2 is the supply (pulsed)of the Bedini SG type motor. The output of the SG, which you configured in boost converter mode (as opposed to standard SG), goes to the output cap feeding the leds.

What I don't understand is how C2 is supposed to power the SG the way you connected it? According to your schematic the pos. of C2 is pulsed to the pos. of the output cap, while the neg. of C2 goes to the pos. input of the SG..

thanks,
Mario
You are right That drawing was old version and there are some mistakes . I am working on the latest version.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 07:12:07 PM
This part of your code: maybe there is something wrong.

I have not included the Read subroutines because they are just for measuring the battery and charge voltages  has nothing to do with the gist of the matter,
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 07:17:49 PM
Thanks for the reply and confirmation. But I don't understand why your LED's are behaving differently (no heat) since they are connected to a continuous DC source!
Are the LED's connected in Series as you mentioned they are 28vdc?

Something is not right

Luc
3 LEDS in series across 80 volts and there are 7 parallel branches So I must see 7 times .7 Amps = 4.9 AMPS, but I only see 0.3 Amps . But many people are referring to cold electricty as "Unmeasureable"
May that be the reason???
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 07:22:00 PM
Hi Tanju,

please correct me if I'm wrong. The battery is pulsed to the C2 cap.  C2 is the supply (pulsed)of the Bedini SG type motor. The output of the SG, which you configured in boost converter mode (as opposed to standard SG), goes to the output cap feeding the leds.

What I don't understand is how C2 is supposed to power the SG the way you connected it? According to your schematic the pos. of C2 is pulsed to the pos. of the output cap, while the neg. of C2 goes to the pos. input of the SG..

thanks,
Mario

Such mistakes occur when you build a circuit and later to draw a schemati for it:)))
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 08:06:37 PM
3 LEDS in series across 80 volts and there are 7 parallel branches So I must see 7 times .7 Amps = 4.9 AMPS, but I only see 0.3 Amps . But many people are referring to cold electricty as "Unmeasureable"
May that be the reason???

Thanks for confirming your LED array connection.
I've been building and experimenting with this stuff for the past 10 years. I've built Bedini, Joule Thief and mostly my own ideas with electromagnets and permanent magnets in hopes to achieve OU.
To date nothing has proven OU or any new kind of electricity. However, even though I haven't found anything better then what the established science has put forward I'm still open to finding something I may of overlooked and why I invited you here so we can hopefully all learn something new if that may end up being the case.
I say it that way because to date there has been no OU claim that hasn't ended up being an error of some kind and hope this is not the case with your device and why we need to question your circuit and measurement methods.
I hope you understand this is nothing against you but what we need to understanding what it is that is different in your device compared to all the other devices we have seen come and go over the years.

I would strongly suggest you find a resistive load instead of the LED's to try to get to the bottom of this output measurement problem as I don't believe cold electricity would cause this. Maybe a curling Iron, toaster, electric kettle would work as a resistor of correct value to stay within your voltage range. Please try and report your findings.

We appreciate your help and sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 08:12:18 PM
Thanks for the reply and confirmation. But I don't understand why your LED's are behaving differently (no heat) since they are connected to a continuous DC source!
Are the LED's connected in Series as you mentioned they are 28vdc?

Something is not right

Luc

Took one PowerLED put it at the end of a 10 cm  4 by 4 tube. at the opposite end I placed an LDR . Connected 27 volts to LED measured the resistance of LDR. Then I put the gadget across one LED in my system I read a very close resistance. Same luminous intensity but much less current ??? ??? ?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 08:24:43 PM
Thanks for confirming your LED array connection.
I've been building and experimenting with this stuff for the past 10 years. I've built Bedini, Joule Thief and mostly my own ideas with electromagnets and permanent magnets in hopes to achieve OU.
To date nothing has proven OU or any new kind of electricity. However, even though I haven't found anything better then what the established science has put forward I'm still open to finding something I may of overlooked and why I invited you here so we can hopefully all learn something new if that may end up being the case.
I say it that way because to date there has been no OU claim that hasn't ended up being an error of some kind and hope this is not the case with your device and why we need to question your circuit and measurement methods.
I hope you understand this is nothing against you but what we need to understanding what it is that is different in your device compared to all the other devices we have seen come and go over the years.

I would strongly suggest you find a resistive load instead of the LED's to try to get to the bottom of this output measurement problem as I don't believe cold electricity would cause this. Maybe a curling Iron, toaster, electric kettle would work as a resistor of correct value to stay within your voltage range. Please try and report your findings.

We appreciate your help and sharing

Luc

Overunity or not ! My garden is like a football stadium at night. thanks to 75 watts input and 21 PowerLEDS. And do not forget I have a mechanical power output of around 600 watts which I can potentially use. However I will still make the pure resistive load trial.
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 09:43:43 PM
Took one PowerLED put it at the end of a 10 cm  4 by 4 tube. at the opposite end I placed an LDR . Connected 27 volts to LED measured the resistance of LDR. Then I put the gadget across one LED in my system I read a very close resistance. Same luminous intensity but much less current ??? ??? ?

I looked up LDR for those who may not know and Found it's a Photo Resistor, a kind of photocell that changes resistance the more light it captures.
So Tanju's test is a kind of confirmation that each of his 21 Power LED light Intensity are giving the same results as if he powers a single LED with a 27vdc power source, which btw produces heat but no heat in his 21 LED Array!!!
I don't understand how that can be but I'm very open to finding out more.
Lets see what happens to the output with a load resistor.

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 09:56:49 PM
I looked up LDR for those who may not know and Found it's a Photo Resistor, a kind of photocell that changes resistance the more light it captures.
So Tanju's test is a kind of confirmation that each of his 21 Power LED light Intensity are giving the same results as if he powers a single LED with a 27vdc power source, which btw produces heat but no heat in his 21 LED Array!!!
I don't understand how that can be but I'm very open to finding out more.
Lets see what happens to the output with a load resistor.

Regards

Luc

We call it "LDR" = (L)ight  (D)ependant  (R)esistor
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 10:09:46 PM
Dear SeaMonkey

I'm deleting your post since it is from another forum and not even posted by you.

Luc

Not a problem.  Tinsel Koala is attempting to contact you at OUR since he is unable to login here.  Check the ShoutBox at OUR.

That Sea Monkey must be one of the "Conservatives". He thinks ı dont have a scope. I dont know how to measure current with an MSc in Electronics, thinks my leds are pulsed..
He is right on one thing I dont have a proper lıght meter because ı never needed it till now!
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 10:17:08 PM
That Sea Monkey must be one of the "Conservatives". He thinks ı dont have a scope. I dont know how to measure current with an MSc in Electronics, thinks my leds are pulsed..
He is right on one thing I dont have a proper lıght meter because ı never needed it till now!
And he is right about loaded shaft.But he must have missed the part where I said " I was almost losing my hand trying to stop the flywheel."
Whateve,r even though the loaded shaft power dops to 100 watts (assuming) is it sill  not OU. forget the bonus of LEDs
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: sparkmen on June 24, 2017, 10:21:53 PM
hi tanju,  good work.
not sure if adding equipmet for measurring will be to the satisfaction/proove of ou  , best is find a way to loop it back to the source
rgds,
spark
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 10:32:44 PM
hi tanju,  good work.
not sure if adding equipmet for measurring will be to the satisfaction/proove of ou  , best is find a way to loop it back to the source
rgds,
spark

Thank you,
Actually there is also a loopback I forgot to mention The bicycle chain seen in the video is connected to a 110 volt dc motor which is energised by the same 80 volts feeding the LEDs
This motor helps kicking the flywheel from time to time.Thus the flywheel is always at constant speed.. So it is not exactly as sea monkey thinks . Shaft power loaded will not reduce drastically.
regards
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: itsu on June 24, 2017, 10:33:37 PM

Could the used LEDs be something like this:

http://www.kosmodrom.com.ua/pdf/ARPL-20W.pdf

Itsu
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 10:51:09 PM
Thank you,
Actually there is also a loopback I forgot to mention The bicycle chain seen in the video is connected to a 110 volt dc motor which is energised by the same 80 volts feeding the LEDs
This motor helps kicking the flywheel from time to time.Thus the flywheel is always at constant speed.. So it is not exactly as sea monkey thinks . Shaft power loaded will not reduce drastically.
regards
Tanju

Okay, this is new information!
I know I said we will be looking at the electrical side first but I think this qualifies as an electrical component of the device. So since we didn't know about it I have a few questions if you don't mind.
Why did you add this DC motor?
What happens when you remove it?
Did it improve the COP of the device?
It must be at an rpm where it's generator action is mostly neutralized?

Thanks

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 11:01:08 PM
I will be doing the pure resistance experiment tomorrow because it is midnight here now.
LED spec says 28-30 volts and 700 miliamperes. That gives me an internal resistance of  40 ohms. 3 in series is 120 ohms and 7 parallel branches give me an overall internal resistance of 120/7= 17.14 ohms
So instead of the LEDs I will connect a 17 ohm resistor and see what happens.
I must also mention another peculiar thing which I witnessed.  In the video I have 15 LEDS and my my output current was still 0.3 Amps I later added 2 more parallel branches which brought the LED qty to 21.
And to my surprise the current did not increase. Does this prove that radiant energy "loves" load????
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 11:17:07 PM
Okay, this is new information!
I know I said we will be looking at the electrical side first but I think this qualifies as an electrical component of the device. So since we didn't know about it I have a few questions if you don't mind.
Why did you add this DC motor?
What happens when you remove it?
Did it improve the COP of the device?
It must be at an rpm where it's generator action is mostly neutralized?

Thanks

Luc

OK It is new for the forum but it was there in the video.
I added the motor because originally the Bedini RPM was lower than expected and another purpose hand start was difficult  33 Kg flywheel, so I thougt it would be a good starter for Flywheel Bedini.
But later , things improved and my RPM with unloaded shaft increased to 200 and stayed constant even without the motor operating. So I put a switch  "monkey" switch. I am keeping the motor for the days when I will have a loaded shaft. Nothing happens when I remove (switch off) the motor. COP does not change.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 24, 2017, 11:28:30 PM
I will be doing the pure resistance experiment tomorrow because it is midnight here now.

Thank you Tanju for your help and participation. We appreciate it.
I may come across like I'm controlling the topic and I can back off if you wish but I've seen so many topics get out of control over the years and I don't want to see it happen to you.
Trust me, the sharks haven't yet come in as the topic says "moderated" but if you want me to back off they may come. Let me know what you wish.

LED spec says 28-30 volts and 700 miliamperes. That gives me an internal resistance of  40 ohms. 3 in series is 120 ohms and 7 parallel branches give me an overall internal resistance of 120/7= 17.14 ohms
So instead of the LEDs I will connect a 17 ohm resistor and see what happens.

Sounds great! thanks for taking the time to do this. Looking forward to the results

I must also mention another peculiar thing which I witnessed.  In the video I have 15 LEDS and my my output current was still 0.3 Amps I later added 2 more parallel branches which brought the LED qty to 21.
And to my surprise the current did not increase. Does this prove that radiant energy "loves" load?

I wonder if the  DC motor and Flywheel combination is somehow equalizing things. Still much to understand.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 11:31:52 PM

Could the used LEDs be something like this:

http://www.kosmodrom.com.ua/pdf/ARPL-20W.pdf

Itsu

Yes quiet similar exept the forward voltage limits are 28-32 a little bit lower than the one you post.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 24, 2017, 11:40:03 PM
Thank you Tanju for your help and participation. We appreciate it.
I may come across like I'm controlling the topic and I can back off if you wish but I've seen so many topics get out of control over the years and I don't want to see it happen to you.
Trust me, the sharks haven't yet come in as the topic says "moderated" but if you want me to back off they may come. Let me know what you wish.

Sounds great! thanks for taking the time to do this. Looking forward to the results.

I wonder somehow if the  DC motor and Flywheel combination is somehow equalizing things. Still much to understand .

First of all I thank you for inviting me to this forum. I am happy you are moderating. I humbly try to opensource my experiences. Many things that I cannot explain. Maybe this forum will enlighten us. And I dont like the expression "Claming for Overunity" Because I am not claiming anything.
Thank you again for your efforts to sustain the sea animals ,oh sorry you said Sharks!
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 25, 2017, 12:41:08 AM
Found some Arduino Lux Sensors if anyone is interested to add to their capabilities of measuring light:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2374313.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xarduino+lux+sensor.TRS0&_nkw=arduino+lux+sensor&_sacat=0
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: forest on June 25, 2017, 10:17:06 AM
I had a thought : if the current used to light those leds is really that small then it will be interesting to test how much smaller wire diameter is possible to use here without heat damage ?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 25, 2017, 06:00:25 PM

Thank you,
Actually there is also a loopback I forgot to mention The bicycle chain seen in the video is connected to a 110 volt dc motor which is energised by the same 80 volts feeding the LEDs
This motor helps kicking the flywheel from time to time.Thus the flywheel is always at constant speed.. So it is not exactly as sea monkey thinks . Shaft power loaded will not reduce drastically.
regards
Tanju

Okay, this is new information!
I know I said we will be looking at the electrical side first but I think this qualifies as an electrical component of the device. So since we didn't know about it I have a few questions if you don't mind.
Why did you add this DC motor?
What happens when you remove it?
Did it improve the COP of the device?
It must be at an rpm where it's generator action is mostly neutralized?
Thanks
Luc

OK It is new for the forum but it was there in the video.
I added the motor because originally the Bedini RPM was lower than expected and another purpose hand start was difficult  33 Kg flywheel, so I thougt it would be a good starter for Flywheel Bedini.
But later , things improved and my RPM with unloaded shaft increased to 200 and stayed constant even without the motor operating. So I put a switch  "monkey" switch. I am keeping the motor for the days when I will have a loaded shaft. Nothing happens when I remove (switch off) the motor. COP does not change.
regards
Tanju

Good day Tanju,

I'm assuming the 110 Volt DC Motor you have connected to the flywheel is a permanent magnet motor, is this correct?
If so, it's great to have it there as it can serve many purposes, one being a dyno load test to measure the flywheel continuous output capabilities.
The other could be to use it as an Isolated output to feed back to the input to see if it can keep the input batteries charged.

I'm just thinking of different possibilities that could be done when you feel ready to do so and I'm sure you have already though of these possibilities.

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 25, 2017, 06:34:10 PM
Some of my fellow researchers from another Research Forum are having issues loging into this forum.

The below is a copy and paste of questions and concerns they have written to date:

TinselKoala [24|Jun 06:29 PM]:   Luc, please point out to Tanju and everyone else who may care, that once a flywheel is running at a constant speed with no shaft load, the only power it dissipates is that required to overcome bearing friction and windage.

partzman [24|Jun 09:28 PM]:   Luc, my question for Tanju was going to be "What voltage level does the capacitor charged from 'massless current' reach and how does it compare with a normal time constant calc?".

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:00 PM]:   Further, he says his LEDs are not flickering, and offers the LDR resistance as evidence of equal light output. OK, so let's see a _scope trace_ proving that the LDR is seeing a steady, nonflickering light output from the LED.

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:35 PM]:   Note what the WIKI says about photoresistor latency and stability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...esistor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...esistor) "unsuitable for sensing rapidly flashing lights" and "unsuitable for applications requiring precise measurement of or sensitivity to light photons"

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:40 PM]:   However he claims that his filtering capacitors are assuring straight DC power to his LEDs. Why then do they not heat up? This is a real issue that must be resolved by proper measurements.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 08:25:24 PM
Good day Tanju,

I'm assuming the 110 Volt DC Motor you have connected to the flywheel is a permanent magnet motor, is this correct?
If so, it's great to have it there as it can serve many purposes, one being a dyno load test to measure the flywheel continuous output capabilities.
The other could be to use it as an Isolated output to feed back to the input to see if it can keep the input batteries charged.

I'm just thinking of different possibilities that could be done when you feel ready to do so and I'm sure you have already though of these possibilities.

Regards

Luc

I made the pure resistance tests as promised  and I am even more confused now, but let me answer your motor question first
Yes it is a dc motor 110 v0lts and can also be used as a generator. And I tried that , but I could not get more than 13 volts with the 200 rpm I have and the bicycle chain ratio I have . Those gears  are two straight gears (no gearbox). In order to use it to charge back my battery I must increase it to more than 26 volts.

Now, the pure resistance load test:
I had only 11 Watt stone resistors available so I tested with 3 resistors
100 Ohms Voltage drops to 54 v0lts and the current I measur is the obvious natural 540milliamps. PLUS HEAT
20 OHMs Voltage drops to 30 volts The current is 1.5 Amperes MORE HEAT!
10 Ohms Voltage drops to 24 volts Current 2.4 Amperes MORE! MORE Heat!
Then I went back tomy 3by7 Led array 80 volts 300 milliamps NO HEAT and More and MOre LIGHT!
I am pissed off!

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 08:44:42 PM
Some of my fellow researchers from another Research Forum are having issues loging into this forum.

The below is a copy and paste of questions and concerns they have written to date:

TinselKoala [24|Jun 06:29 PM]:   Luc, please point out to Tanju and everyone else who may care, that once a flywheel is running at a constant speed with no shaft load, the only power it dissipates is that required to overcome bearing friction and windage.

partzman [24|Jun 09:28 PM]:   Luc, my question for Tanju was going to be "What voltage level does the capacitor charged from 'massless current' reach and how does it compare with a normal time constant calc?".

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:00 PM]:   Further, he says his LEDs are not flickering, and offers the LDR resistance as evidence of equal light output. OK, so let's see a _scope trace_ proving that the LDR is seeing a steady, nonflickering light output from the LED.

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:35 PM]:   Note what the WIKI says about photoresistor latency and stability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...esistor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...esistor) "unsuitable for sensing rapidly flashing lights" and "unsuitable for applications requiring precise measurement of or sensitivity to light photons"

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:40 PM]:   However he claims that his filtering capacitors are assuring straight DC power to his LEDs. Why then do they not heat up? This is a real issue that must be resolved by proper measurements.

I agree with TinselKoala I must get a decent Luxmeter somehow. Regarding loaded shaftpower I think I answered  that question in my previous posts.
To patzman; The voltage level at the massless displacement capacitor is slightly less then battery voltage I could achieve max  22 v0lts by playing with my time delays in the arduino sketch. Because it is a step charge operation time constants irrelevant.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 08:51:58 PM
Found some Arduino Lux Sensors if anyone is interested to add to their capabilities of measuring light:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2374313.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xarduino+lux+sensor.TRS0&_nkw=arduino+lux+sensor&_sacat=0

Yes I tried to make one  but they are still using an LDR and you must do all kinds of logaritmic conversion to get a linear LDR or lux output.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 09:01:15 PM
I had a thought : if the current used to light those leds is really that small then it will be interesting to test how much smaller wire diameter is possible to use here without heat damage ?

That is a very interesting thought! I started beleiving that those 21 PowerLEDs  each specified as 20 watt LEDs in the spec only drawing 300 milliampers in total.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 25, 2017, 09:47:17 PM
Yes it is a dc motor 110 v0lts and can also be used as a generator. And I tried that , but I could not get more than 13 volts with the 200 rpm I have and the bicycle chain ratio I have . Those gears  are two straight gears (no gearbox). In order to use it to charge back my battery I must increase it to more than 26 volts.

Thank you Tanju for the new details and test report.
I'm not surprised the 110 Volt DC Motor at 200 rpm will only deliver 13 volts which is not enough to charge the input batteries. That would of been too easy. However, you can still use it as a mechanical load test to see how much the device is affected by a mechanical load. If you attache a 1 Ohm resistor to the motor and it can sustain 10 vdc across 1 Ohm = 100 Watts as long as the resistor does not overheat which could cause the resistor value to change and affect the power measurement. You can try with higher value resistor like 2 Ohms at 10 vdc = 50 Watts and so on.
These load tests would give you a good idea as to how much power is truly available from the 670 Watts of stored mechanical power in the flywheel you calculated and how much the rpm is affected when the flywheel is loaded.

Now, the pure resistance load test:
I had only 11 Watt stone resistors available so I tested with 3 resistors
100 Ohms Voltage drops to 54 v0lts and the current I measur is the obvious natural 540milliamps. PLUS HEAT
20 OHMs Voltage drops to 30 volts The current is 1.5 Amperes MORE HEAT!
10 Ohms Voltage drops to 24 volts Current 2.4 Amperes MORE! MORE Heat!
Then I went back tomy 3by7 Led array 80 volts 300 milliamps NO HEAT and More and MOre LIGHT!
I am pissed off!

The best result is the 10 Ohm load. If it sustain 24 vdc and maintaining resistor value at 10 Ohms = 57.6 Watts which is a reliable power measurement if the resistor did not overheat and start to increase its resistance.
Did you notice if the 75 Watts of input power was affected when you connected the 10 Ohm load to the output?
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you wrote: Then I went back tomy 3by7 Led array 80 volts 300 milliamps NO HEAT and More and MOre LIGHT!
Are you saying the 21 LED array does not light anymore since you did these resistor load tests?
Thanks for doing these test and sharing your results.
Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 10:36:08 PM
Thank you Tanju for the new details and test report.
I'm not surprised the 110 Volt DC Motor at 200 rpm will only deliver 13 volts which is not enough to charge the input batteries. That would of been too easy. However, you can still use it as a mechanical load test to see how much the device is affected by a mechanical load. If you attache a 1 Ohm resistor to the motor and it can sustain 10 vdc across 1 Ohm = 100 Watts as long as the resistor does not overheat which could cause the resistor value to change and affect the power measurement. You can try with higher value resistor like 2 Ohms at 10 vdc = 50 Watts and so on.
These load tests would give you a good idea as to how much power is truly available from the 670 Watts of stored mechanical power in the flywheel you calculated and how much the rpm is affected when the flywheel is loaded.

The best result is the 10 Ohm load. If it sustain 24 vdc and maintaining resistor value at 10 Ohms = 57.6 Watts which is a reliable power measurement if the resistor did not overheat and start to increase its resistance.
Did you notice if the 75 Watts of input power was affected when you connected the 10 Ohm load to the output?
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you wrote: Then I went back tomy 3by7 Led array 80 volts 300 milliamps NO HEAT and More and MOre LIGHT!
Are you saying the 21 LED array does not light anymore since you did these resistor load tests?
Thanks for doing these test and sharing your results.
Regards
Luc

Then I removed the resistor load and put my 21 LED s back and  I got 80 volts 300 milliamperes and the Previous dazzling brightness and no heat.

10 volts across 1 ohm????   I dont think that motor can deliver 10 amps as generator. Even the thin terminal wires will melt.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 25, 2017, 11:11:27 PM
Then I removed the resistor load and put my 21 LED s back and  I got 80 volts 300 milliamperes and the Previous dazzling brightness and no heat.
Okay, got it.

10 volts across 1 ohm? ???   I dont think that motor can deliver 10 amps as generator. Even the thin terminal wires will melt.
The numbers were just an example. I have no idea of the size your motor is but from your comment it looks to be a toy and explains why you're not using it to do tests.
Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 11:14:18 PM
I do not understand those Bloody LEDs!
When I was doing the resistor tests I witnessed another strange thing.
When I remove all Load My output voltage goes beyond 100volts so I stop immediately not to exceed my filter capacitors rating.
Restarting the device with just one (1) LED as load The output voltage starts rising but stops at 30 volts does not go beyond that.
Then I connected two Leds in series this time the voltage does not go beyond 56 volts,
and finally when I connect Three Leds in series the voltage is stable at 80 volts
In all above cases the Leds have the same brightness.
This crazy thing is adjusting itself to the Led forward voltage limit,
I could not and should not try but if I connect 4 LEDs in series then the voltage may go up to 110-120 volts (I suspect)???
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 11:26:33 PM
Okay, got it.
The numbers were just an example. I have no idea of the size your motor is but from your comment it looks to be a toy and explains why you're not using it to do tests.
Regards
Luc
I do not think it is a toy motor guessing by the size 2 inch diameter and 4 inches length It may deliver 1 amp max
I got the idea, I will see up to what current it will load. I will do this test also.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: cheors on June 25, 2017, 11:34:31 PM
I think this is normal : LEDS  are similar  to Zener diodes with a threshold voltage.

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 25, 2017, 11:46:14 PM
I think this is normal : LEDS  are similar  to Zener diodes with a threshold voltage.

Thanks
I think this answers my questions.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gyulasun on June 26, 2017, 12:03:19 AM
I will be doing the pure resistance experiment tomorrow because it is midnight here now.
LED spec says 28-30 volts and 700 miliamperes. That gives me an internal resistance of  40 ohms. 3 in series is 120 ohms and 7 parallel branches give me an overall internal resistance of 120/7= 17.14 ohms
So instead of the LEDs I will connect a 17 ohm resistor and see what happens.
I must also mention another peculiar thing which I witnessed.  In the video I have 15 LEDS and my my output current was still 0.3 Amps I later added 2 more parallel branches which brought the LED qty to 21.
And to my surprise the current did not increase. Does this prove that radiant energy "loves" load? ???

Hi Tanju,

Well, it is a good question but I would say as long as we can explain things by conventional science no need to turn to 'fancy' things.

[I just noticed member cheors mentioned the Zener like nonlinear LED behaviour while I prepared this answer.]

I mean the followings: you surely know LEDs have a relatively steep VI characteristics i.e. assuming voltage source_like drive a small forward voltage change across them may cause high forward current change in them i.e they behave like Zener diodes do.
You connected 3 LED arrays (having 28-30V forward voltage each) in series to get a 84V-90V forward voltage range and you also paralleled 7 such arrays and you measure 80V forward voltage at 300 mA overall forward current.

Now you wish compare this LED power data to a resistor power data. It is not comparable, because a resistor has a linear VI characteristic and no Zener diode-like behaviour. I know you know this and sorry to mention but we tend to think that way.
You measured 80V across your LED array, dividing this by 3 it gives 26.6 V forward voltage drop for a single LED out of any 3 in the series strings. This means such LED receives less than its specified 28-30V hence its own current draw must also be much less than the specified 700 mA of course, you measured 300 mA for the 7 paralleled branches. We need to divide 300 by 7 = 43 mA to get current in any of the branches. This is possible due to the Zener-like characteristics.

From your resistor load tests the inner resistance of your 80V 'voltage source' comes as if it would change between 23 Ohm and 48 Ohm values: is there any series component like a diode in the output going to the LEDs that may change nonlinearly with load current? If there is not any series components, then what may cause the change?

Could you show a scope shot across your 80 V (presumably DC) voltage source (that collects the 'radiant') while feeding the LEDs? First use DC coupling for the scope input and just for curiosity, check it in AC coupling to increase AC amplitude resolution to see how pure DC the high value capacitor(s) provide (i.e. how much ripple voltage is there if any).

Gyula

EDIT I attached a LED VI characteristic curve from the data sheet member Itsu provided earlier. Your LEDs may have even steeper VI curves than the type shown.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 01:08:32 AM
Hi Tanju,

Well, it is a good question but I would say as long as we can explain things by conventional science no need to turn to 'fancy' things.

[I just noticed member cheors mentioned the Zener like nonlinear LED behaviour while I prepared this answer.]

I mean the followings: you surely know LEDs have a relatively steep VI characteristics i.e. assuming voltage source_like drive a small forward voltage change across them may cause high forward current change in them i.e they behave like Zener diodes do.
You connected 3 LED arrays (having 28-30V forward voltage each) in series to get a 84V-90V forward voltage range and you also paralleled 7 such arrays and you measure 80V forward voltage at 300 mA overall forward current.

Now you wish compare this LED power data to a resistor power data. It is not comparable, because a resistor has a linear VI characteristic and no Zener diode-like behaviour. I know you know this and sorry to mention but we tend to think that way.
You measured 80V across your LED array, dividing this by 3 it gives 26.6 V forward voltage drop for a single LED out of any 3 in the series strings. This means such LED receives less than its specified 28-30V hence its own current draw must also be much less than the specified 700 mA of course, you measured 300 mA for the 7 paralleled branches. We need to divide 300 by 7 = 43 mA to get current in any of the branches. This is possible due to the Zener-like characteristics.

From your resistor load tests the inner resistance of your 80V 'voltage source' comes as if it would change between 23 Ohm and 48 Ohm values: is there any series component like a diode in the output going to the LEDs that may change nonlinearly with load current? If there is not any series components, then what may cause the change?

Could you show a scope shot across your 80 V (presumably DC) voltage source (that collects the 'radiant') while feeding the LEDs? First use DC coupling for the scope input and just for curiosity, check it in AC coupling to increase AC amplitude resolution to see how pure DC the high value capacitor(s) provide (i.e. how much ripple voltage is there if any).

Gyula

EDIT I attached a LED VI characteristic curve from the data sheet member Itsu provided earlier. Your LEDs may have even steeper VI curves than the type shown.

Very informative input. Thank you very much. But still does not answer my questıon. How can I get such high luminious intensity even though the Leds are subject to a voltage lower than  the low threshhold voltage 26.6 vs 28
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gyulasun on June 26, 2017, 01:27:13 AM
Well I do not know it yet.  Perhaps a scope shot across the 80V capacitor and an actual schematic on the output parts could shed some further lights on an answer.  And also, a dependable light meter to check lux emitted would also help. Brightness to our eyes can be decisive, unfortunately.

Gyula
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: e2matrix on June 26, 2017, 01:38:39 AM
Well I do not know it yet.  Perhaps a scope shot across the 80V capacitor and an actual schematic on the output parts could shed some further lights on an answer.  And also, a dependable light meter to check lux emitted would also help. Brightness to our eyes can be decisive, unfortunately.

Gyula

Hi Gyula,  I'm guessing you meant "Brightness to our eyes can be deceptive" ?   Rule of thumb I've learned from flashlight forums is it takes almost double the brightness in lumens to be a noticeable difference to the human eye.
Also I'm not sure if I'm up to speed on the discussion of LED brightness here with regards to this circuit but LED's can look quite bright running on pulsed DC or AC so unless you have a scope of the voltage it might appear less than what the lower input voltage an LED needs.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: e2matrix on June 26, 2017, 01:40:54 AM
I will ad that Tanju's setup is very interesting and I once again think it may be a confirmation that flywheels in combination with the right motor and generator setup can do some fascinating things probably including OU.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 01:54:28 AM
Well I do not know it yet.  Perhaps a scope shot across the 80V capacitor and an actual schematic on the output parts could shed some further lights on an answer.  And also, a dependable light meter to check lux emitted would also help. Brightness to our eyes can be decisive, unfortunately.

Gyula
I will try to get the scope shot of the 66000 Microfarad smoothing capacitor  tomorrow but I still suspect I will see nothing but a straight line at 80 volts???
Your calculation 300 ma divided by 7 branches equal 43 mA is OK but I dont see the 43 mA on the VI chart of the LED. The chart starts at 200 mA . It is off the chart. How come The LED even lights, My eye is not a  luxmeter of course but I use them in my garden  at night where it is as bright as a football stadium.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 26, 2017, 06:47:58 AM
For those who have problems login in, try this link and let me know if it works any better: http://overunity.com/login/#.WVCRM-srKUk

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: verpies on June 26, 2017, 10:44:24 AM
LED spec says 28-30 volts and 700 miliamperes. That gives me an internal resistance of  40 ohms. 3 in series is 120 ohms and 7 parallel branches give me an overall internal resistance of 120/7= 17.14 ohms
LEDs do not have a constant resistance. They have a variable resistance that decreases as the voltage across them increases.
Below some threshold voltage, LEDs have almost infinite resistance (i.e. they do not conduct current almost at all).

Take a look at the attached scopeshot.  The yellow trace is a voltage across a single LED and the green trace is the current flowing through the same LED.

The emitted light intensity (luminosity) is proportional to the current - not to the voltage!

I must also mention another peculiar thing which I witnessed.  In the video I have 15 LEDS and my my output current was still 0.3 Amps I later added 2 more parallel branches which brought the LED qty to 21.
And to my surprise the current did not increase. Does this prove that radiant energy "loves" load? ???
No, it proves that you are driving these LEDs from a constant current source.
Inductors (coils) are constant current sources when they are discharging.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gyulasun on June 26, 2017, 10:52:14 AM

Hi Gyula,  I'm guessing you meant "Brightness to our eyes can be deceptive" ?
....

Yes, I meant and wanted to write 'deceptive', thanks for the correction.
I agree with what you wrote Tanju setup is interesting but needs careful measurements to correctly evaluate its performance.

Gyula
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gyulasun on June 26, 2017, 10:54:10 AM
I will try to get the scope shot of the 66000 Microfarad smoothing capacitor  tomorrow but I still suspect I will see nothing but a straight line at 80 volts???
Your calculation 300 ma divided by 7 branches equal 43 mA is OK but I dont see the 43 mA on the VI chart of the LED. The chart starts at 200 mA . It is off the chart. How come The LED even lights, My eye is not a  luxmeter of course but I use them in my garden  at night where it is as bright as a football stadium.

Hi Tanju,

Yes, I agree on your seeing a straight line, normally a 66000 uF capacitor is a good filter to smooth out most ripple voltage. If you have already checked this, and confirmed the ripple (if there is any visible) is say less than a few hundred millivolts peak to peak then that is okay it may not cause any surprise riding on the 80 V DC level and you do not need to recheck it. But I do not know whether you already did this that is why I mentioned. Perhaps this check would bring more interesting results in case of the 10 or 20 Ohm resistor load across the 66000 uF.

I also agree that 43 mA is off the chart but I do not know whether your actual LEDs exactly corresponds to that LED type the PDF file data sheet Itsu found? You mentioned the tighter 28-30 V forward voltage range as the difference, that is all. The best would be to check DC current in some of the LED branches out of the 7 to see the actual values whether the 43 mA is reality?

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Temporal Visitor on June 26, 2017, 11:44:15 AM
For those who have problems login in, try this link and let me know if it works any better: http://overunity.com/login/#.WVCRM-srKUk

Luc

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 11:53:47 AM
LEDs do not have a constant resistance. They have a variable resistance that decreases as the voltage across them increases.
Below some threshold voltage, LEDs have almost infinite resistance (i.e. they do not conduct current almost at all).

Take a look at the attached scopeshot.  The yellow trace is a voltage across a single LED and the green trace is the current flowing through the same LED.

The emitted light intensity (luminosity) is proportional to the current - not to the voltage!
No, it proves that you are driving these LEDs from a constant current source.
Inductors are constant current sources when they are discharging.

My Bedini Inductors are before the  66000 Microfarad capacitor, they discharge to the capacitor through diodes. Is it considered still as constant current source?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: verpies on June 26, 2017, 12:30:54 PM
My 650 watts is calculation knowing the rpm . dimensions and weight of the flywheel you can reach angular  momentum and moment of inertia thus power and energy.
Please do not confuse the energy stored in a flywheel with the power delivered by that flywheel to an external load (e.g. to a "prony brake" or a "pigtail generator").

The rule of thumb is that when the torque on the flywheel is zero then no energy is flowing out (or into) the flywheel and the power is zero, too.  Zero power does not mean that a large amount of energy is not stored in the motion of the flywheel.  Power is an energy flow - not the energy itself ( in other words: power is an amount of energy changing per time, i.e. Joules per Second ).

I have not actually measured the mechanical power output. I don't have the means to do so.
How about a prony brake (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prony_brake) ?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: verpies on June 26, 2017, 01:22:33 PM
My Bedini Inductors are before the  66000 Microfarad capacitor, they discharge to the capacitor through diodes. Is it considered still as constant current source?
The diodes do not change the character of the current source.

The capacitor does, but not entirely. The entire energy still is supplied from the inductors but is passively filtered by the capacitor.
Eventually an equilibrium is reached and that is why adding more LED strings in parallel does not change the total current (it does change the current per string (branch), though).
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 01:56:28 PM
This is my output meter.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 02:28:19 PM
Here are the updated schematics of my system.
I hope I dont have any mistakes because it is difficult to draw schematic after you make things work. mod after mod.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 02:32:17 PM
Our moderator went to silent mode.
Hı Luc are you alive!?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: partzman on June 26, 2017, 02:52:31 PM
I agree with TinselKoala I must get a decent Luxmeter somehow. Regarding loaded shaftpower I think I answered  that question in my previous posts.
To patzman; The voltage level at the massless displacement capacitor is slightly less then battery voltage I could achieve max  22 v0lts by playing with my time delays in the arduino sketch. Because it is a step charge operation time constants irrelevant.

Tanju,

I'm finally able to logon using the upper login button!  Actually the operational time constants are relevant.  For example, if your circuit is developing energy in a capacitance via massless current, the time to do so should be less than normal current conduction for the same energy level.  IOW, if less energy is drawn from the source via the massless current charging of a capacitor than the resultant energy stored in that capacitor, this would result in an energy gain as I'm sure you know.  This operation could be confirmed with calculations taken from reasonably accurate scope measurements.

Normally step charging a capacitance is conservative and would provide no energy gain.

PM
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 26, 2017, 03:33:31 PM
Our moderator went to silent mode.
Hı Luc are you alive!?

Hi Tanju

I start my day around 9 am EST.
I was reading the new posts and see you were able to upload pictures. Please send me the (full size) pics of your new circuit so I can post them on the first post. Do you need me to do anything more?

I see you are now in the best of hands with advice from verpies, gyulasun and partzman
I'll just monitor (not advise) from now on as these individual are way more qualified then me and I trust them 100%

Regards

Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: tinman on June 26, 2017, 03:44:05 PM
Tanju,

I'm finally able to logon using the upper login button!  Actually the operational time constants are relevant.  For example, if your circuit is developing energy in a capacitance via massless current, the time to do so should be less than normal current conduction for the same energy level.  IOW, if less energy is drawn from the source via the massless current charging of a capacitor than the resultant energy stored in that capacitor, this would result in an energy gain as I'm sure you know.  This operation could be confirmed with calculations taken from reasonably accurate scope measurements.

Normally step charging a capacitance is conservative and would provide no energy gain.

PM

massless current ?

Are you referring to massless displacement current ?.

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 26, 2017, 03:48:43 PM
massless current ?

Are you referring to massless displacement current ?.

If you read the first post much of the details are there.
Regards
Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: tinman on June 26, 2017, 04:17:26 PM

If you read the first post much of the details are there.
Regards
Luc

Ah,ok-so it is !massless displacement current! that is being referred too.
Quote:-In 1993 Tom Bearden came up with the idea of “Massless Displacement Current”. I was inspired by that.

I also see-Quote: My name is Tanju Argun and I have a Master’s degree in Electronics Engineering

One would think that being a master in electronic engineering,Tanju would also have mastered the art of accurate power measurements. But i see in a few of his post's that he is some what confused by his power measurements  :o

I hear a lot of talk about !cold! electricity  ???
What is !cold! electricity ?

There is also that !radiant! energy popping up again.

Are we talking Endothermic radiated energy here,where the system is drawing in energy radiated from outside source's,causing the system to cool?.

Looking forward to the scope shot's--they should tell a few stories.

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 04:21:23 PM
massless current ?

Are you referring to massless displacement current ?.

Yes "The Massless Displacement Current" of Tom Bearden.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 04:36:41 PM
Ah,ok-so it is !massless displacement current! that is being referred too.
Quote:-In 1993 Tom Bearden came up with the idea of “Massless Displacement Current”. I was inspired by that.

I also see-Quote: My name is Tanju Argun and I have a Master’s degree in Electronics Engineering

One would think that being a master in electronic engineering,Tanju would also have mastered the art of accurate power measurements. But i see in a few of his post's that he is some what confused by his power measurements  :o

I hear a lot of talk about !cold! electricity  ???
What is !cold! electricity ?

There is also that !radiant! energy popping up again.

Are we talking Endothermic radiated energy here,where the system is drawing in energy radiated from outside source's,causing the system to cool?.

Looking forward to the scope shot's--they should tell a few stories.

My degree is irrelevant! Because they dont teach these things in school!
Besides My degree is dated 1969, I dont know yor age but probably you were not born. I am a "Valve" man.
I am just a retired engineer of 70 years of age and trying to pass the the time for my remaining days reading TESLA, trying to learn things that they have not taught us.
So please bear with me or if you dont beleive in these things called free energy, zero point energy, radiant energy nobody forces you to be in this forum.
Please do not fiddle around with my "degree". Because I may take that as a rude insult.
Regards
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: tinman on June 26, 2017, 05:06:25 PM

Regards
Tanju

Quote
My degree is irrelevant! Because they dont teach these things in school!

What thing's exactly ?

Quote
Besides My degree is dated 1969, I dont know yor age but probably you were not born. I am a "Valve" man.

Yes,i existed back then,but only just.

Quote
I am just a retired engineer of 70 years of age and trying to pass the the time for my remaining days reading TESLA,

Tesla was indeed a great man,and gave us many things--but free energy devices was not one of them,unless you count hydro driven turbines as free energy devices-as i do,along with solar panels.

Quote
So please bear with me or if you dont beleive in these things called free energy, zero point energy, radiant energy nobody forces you to be in this forum.

I believe in free energy device's,such as those we have today--E.G solar panels.
Perhaps you mean !exotic energy device's! ?

Quote
Please do not fiddle around with my "degree". Because I may take that as a rude insult.

If your degree is !irrelevant!,then i see no cause for you to take anything as an insult-which it was not.

Anyway.like many before you,i wish you the best.

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: TinselKoala on June 26, 2017, 05:21:03 PM
This is my output meter.

Thank you for posting your output meter's display. I note that it is showing just over 23 watts output.

I think you have mentioned before that the input power is 75 watts.  Is this the case when that output reading was taken?

Do you believe your device is overunity? That is, do you believe its average output power exceeds its average input power?

If so, what is the basis for your belief?

I agree with you, that your degree is irrelevant.

Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 05:24:39 PM
Dear Luc;
You invited me and therefore I am asking your permission to retire fom this forum.
Maybe I am not fit for this forum.
I do not have to be together with people asking questions like What is cold elecctricity? What is Radiant Energy?
These questions do not fit with the title of this forum.
These people know nothing about Nikola Tesla.
So please let me go back to my silent corner and try to continue with my works.
Thanks and regards

Tanju
P.S. I will not forget mind the sharks! But again my meat is old for those sharks.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: TinselKoala on June 26, 2017, 05:30:34 PM
I have not actually measured the mechanical power output. I dont have the means to do so. My 650 watts is calculation knowing the rpm . dimensions and weight of the flywheel you can reach angular
momentum and moment of inertia thus power and energy. I know I can connect a pigtail generator. I know this because I almost lost my hand trying to handbrake the flywheel.
I do not have a generator or motor available and I dont have good mechanical construction skills. But I will do that.
Thanks
Tanju

Could you please show your complete calculation working that results in your 650 watts output figure from your 33kg flywheel? Please be sure to include the "units" in your calculation so we can see exactly how you arrived at that figure.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 05:34:33 PM
Thank you for posting your output meter's display. I note that it is showing just over 23 watts output.

I think you have mentioned before that the input power is 75 watts.  Is this the case when that output reading was taken?

Do you believe your device is overunity? That is, do you believe its average output power exceeds its average input power?

If so, what is the basis for your belief?

I agree with you, that your degree is irrelevant.

I dont beleive in anything anymore!
All I know is. I have a gadget which convert my garden to daylight at night and for only 75 watt input. I could have achieved the same illuminance by installing 500 watts of bulbs maybe.
and that I have learnt quite a number of things in this forum during my short stay.
Regards
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 26, 2017, 05:44:39 PM
Dear Tanju,

I apologize for Brad's (tinman) outburst. I'm surprised of his tone and disrespect towards a fellow researcher as Brad has been an alternative energy research for as long as I have been. If you look at his over 400 youtube videos https://www.youtube.com/user/TinManPower/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/TinManPower/videos)  you will see that he is on a similar path of looking outside the box. However, he has come to his own conclusions (by experiments) that many of the jargon created by the more recent Urban Legends of free energy like Bearden, Bedini and so on, that their theories once fully built and tested don't prove to have anything new or advantageous over what conventional science has already put forward. I think that maybe over the years of experiments and disappointments it has affected Brad and frustrates him to see other new experimenters bring this back on the table.

I'm taking the time to explain in a nutshell where I think Brad may be coming from to help you understand that it's not personal. I can assure you he has done his homework and means well but could use a little polishing on his delivery.
Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: TinselKoala on June 26, 2017, 05:47:16 PM
Dear Luc;
You invited me and therefore I am asking your permission to retire fom this forum.
Maybe I am not fit for this forum.
I do not have to be together with people asking questions like What is cold elecctricity? What is Radiant Energy?
These questions do not fit with the title of this forum.
These people know nothing about Nikola Tesla.
So please let me go back to my silent corner and try to continue with my works.
Thanks and regards

Tanju
P.S. I will not forget mind the sharks! But again my meat is old for those sharks.

You are wrong that "these people know nothing about Nikola Tesla".  If you have confidence in your results you should not shy away from people questioning you and asking you for solid evidence for your claims. Perhaps instead of feeling attacked, you might consider this an opportunity to learn about some of those things that were not covered in your school experience, and even to teach some of us what _we_ might not know.

Would you not like to know whether or not you are wasting your remaining time and energy in your silent corner? Some of the people that are responding to you have many years experience in these matters and could perhaps help you better to understand your chosen field of research. You have already learned some things about LEDs, and perhaps if you continue discussions here you will learn some other things about flywheels and energy storage vs. power output.

Why do you shy away from people who want you to define the terms you are using? What is "cold electricity", what is "radiant energy", according to _YOU_? We have all read the opinions and writings of Tesla, Bedini, Bearden and others on these matters. Perhaps you can explain, according to you, how "radiant" and/or "cold" electricity from the Bedini section survives being rectified by diodes and smoothed by large filtering capacitors to produce such an impression of brilliance in your LEDs. Do you not have confidence in your results? Would you not like to know exactly what is happening in your device?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 05:48:42 PM
Could you please show your complete calculation working that results in your 650 watts output figure from your 33kg flywheel? Please be sure to include the "units" in your calculation so we can see exactly how you arrived at that figure.
Mass=33Kg
Rotation=200 RPM
Angular Momentum= I=m*r2=2.97Kgm2
Kinetic Energy=0.5*I*w2=1464 Joules
Torque=Angular Acceleration* I
Power=Torque*W
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 06:01:22 PM
Mass=33Kg
Rotation=200 RPM
Angular Momentum= I=m*r2=2.97Kgm2
Kinetic Energy=0.5*I*w2=1464 Joules
Torque=Angular Acceleration* I
Power=Torque*W

Thanks for encouragement.
Let me correct the calculation this calculation was for 300 RPM which I was targetting to achieve. But at present ı am at 200 rpm angular velocity is less than 31.4
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: TinselKoala on June 26, 2017, 06:08:49 PM
Thanks for encouragement.
Let me correct the calculation this calculation was for 300 RPM which I was targetting to achieve. But at present ı am at 200 rpm angular velocity is less than 31.4

You have not shown your _calculation_, you are only showing input data and results. Let me remind you that Watts = Joules PER SECOND.

If you put a light load on your 200 rpm flywheel, what happens? If you put a heavy load on your flywheel, what happens? Clearly, the power in watts depends on the time during which that stored energy of 1464 Joules is dissipated.

You can only justify the large wattage figure if your flywheel remains running at that same constant angular velocity while you are continuously drawing the wattage from it.  Does it?

You will note that when the flywheel is running at a constant angular velocity, the angular _acceleration_ is zero. Hence the result of
Torque = Angular Acceleration * I
is ....  zero.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 26, 2017, 06:18:25 PM
Dear Luc;
You invited me and therefore I am asking your permission to retire fom this forum.
Maybe I am not fit for this forum.
I do not have to be together with people asking questions like What is cold elecctricity? What is Radiant Energy?
These questions do not fit with the title of this forum.
These people know nothing about Nikola Tesla.
So please let me go back to my silent corner and try to continue with my works.
Thanks and regards

Tanju

P.S. I will not forget mind the sharks! But again my meat is old for those sharks.
Dear Tanju,
Please feel free to take leave at any time you wish as you own us nothing.
Building something just to have others dissect it is difficult. It's like seeing your own child's beliefs being questioned by a stranger.
I understand if you wish not to participate or need to take a break as it's a lot to take in when dealing with professional individuals like TinselKoala who has over 730 videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/TinselKoala (https://www.youtube.com/user/TinselKoala)  of builds and tests of different energy solutions and was professionally hired to evaluate many Free Energy Devices for decades.
Please take a little time off if you wish and or consider some of our test or experiment suggestions as we will be happy to help based on our own experiments and experience.
Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: TinselKoala on June 26, 2017, 06:57:56 PM
Here is where we are at the moment, in my opinion.

Tanju's electrical measurements using his wattmeter with LED and resistive loads have shown that the electrical output is less than the electrical input by a fairly large margin.

I think we have shown that the "650 watts" flywheel output figure is a conceptual error and cannot be included in the true output of the apparatus. I am pleased to encourage further discussion on this matter, but as it stands now there is no evidence or theoretical justification for excess _continuous_ power available from the flywheel.

So what we have left is the subjective impression of excess light output and reduced temperature rise from the LEDs.

I would like to see some side-by-side comparisons, using instrumental means if possible, of the brightness of the LEDs with the same _current_ flowing through them, in the first case provided by the Tanju apparatus, and in the second case provided by a DC power supply and whatever current-limiting inline resistance is necessary to achieve exactly the same measured current.

The current can be easily measured by looking at the voltage drop across a 1-ohm series resistance, preferably using the oscilloscope, or even a good DMM if we are satisfied that the LED is not being pulsed.  Using an LDR for the light output measurement may be roughly acceptable if done properly, but it would be better to use a phototransistor sensing element as used in real lightmeters, or even the TSL2561 sensor (multiple PTs with different spectral responses) with the appropriate transfer function programmed into the Arduino.

The best comparison would be made using the same physical LED unit and current-viewing resistor under both conditions, to control for possible variations in the LEDs themselves. Concurrent temperature measurements would be "icing on the cake".

As others have mentioned, subjective "eyeball" brilliance impressions can be very deceiving. Sometimes it takes an actual doubling of true illuminance before the eye can detect any difference. The only way to really settle this issue is by instrumental means, with proper controls.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: MenofFather on June 26, 2017, 07:33:03 PM
Agree with TinsenKola.
I think, this divice have no ovrunity. Overunity must be esily meshured with osciloscope or with ampermeter and voltmeter on input and output. Or he must same led lamp shine from socket and it must shine at same brightnes like his LED. Then he  can say, that they LEDs shine at nominal, full brightness and power. After capasitor on output, he can add resistor and after resistor add new capasitor to get smooth current and then on that resistor can meshure curent. For example can use 1 omh resistor. So one volts on resistor means one ampere. Wery easily! I not see that is probllems corect meashure current on output?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: Tanju on June 26, 2017, 08:20:13 PM
Overunity or not,
This is my garden at night,
For only 75 watt.

Goodbye everyone and thanks for all contribution.
Tanju
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gotoluc on June 26, 2017, 08:20:45 PM
Agree with TinsenKola.
I think, this divice have no ovrunity. Overunity must be esily meshured with osciloscope or with ampermeter and voltmeter on input and output. Or he must same led lamp shine from socket and it must shine at same brightnes like his LED. Then he  can say, that they LEDs shine at nominal, full brightness and power. After capasitor on output, he can add resistor and after resistor add new capasitor to get smooth current and then on that resistor can meshure curent. For example can use 1 omh resistor. So one volts on resistor means one ampere. Wery easily! I not see that is probllems corect meashure current on output?

Okay gentlemen!
We are not going to start bashing what Tanju has shared because he's taking some time off or decides to never come back.
Remember, this site is a place to investigate Overunity... so, should we not hold up to the name and investigate in a respectful way?
There's no need to be bold and impolite while trying to convey information. All that does is push people away as you see and have seen for many years.
Do we not have something to learn here with our communications skills?
The only perpetual energy going around here is the I know better time and again.

Food for thought: if we can't improved our energy solution, maybe we can improve ourselves?

Kind regards
Luc
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: forest on June 26, 2017, 08:55:29 PM
Again. If this is cold current or RF or radiant energy or whatever you call it - then those leds would light when connected to the device using 0.20 mm diameter copper wire.No heat.No damage to the wire. Would be a good starting point to check it.As you wish.
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: verpies on June 27, 2017, 12:35:14 AM
Mass=33Kg
Rotation=200 RPM
Is that a uniformly distributed aluminum disc?
How thick is it?
How long does it take to accelerate it from 0rpm to 200rpm ?
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: gyulasun on June 27, 2017, 12:50:05 AM
Overunity or not,
This is my garden at night,
For only 75 watt.

Goodbye everyone and thanks for all contribution.
Tanju

Dear Tanju,

I assume you can have access to relatively cheap DC motors that could be used as generators, for instance motors used for threadmills for instance, even used such motors could be good for a test.
I think of a test where you attach the shaft of such DC motor to your 30 kg flywheel as if it were a bicycle dynamo. See for ideas how to attach them simply in gotoluc's video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP2v5ZkUw4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXP2v5ZkUw4)

This way your output energy stored in the flywheel could be utilized even better and it would turn out for yourself how output  relates to input energywise.

Greetings
Gyula
Title: Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
Post by: tinman on June 27, 2017, 01:28:37 AM
Okay gentlemen!
We are not going to start bashing what Tanju has shared because he's taking some time off or decides to never come back.
Remember, this site is a place to investigate Overunity... so, should we not hold up to the name and investigate in a respectful way?
There's no need to be bold and impolite while trying to convey information. All that does is push people away as you see and have seen for many years.
Do we not have something to learn here with our communications skills?
The only perpetual energy going around here is the I know better time and again.

Food for thought: if we can't improved our energy solution, maybe we can improve ourselves?

Kind regards
Luc

Luc

I did not mean to !bash! anyone here,nor did i think i was.
Are we now treading on egg shell's,or do we remain straight and to the point?.

Are we now at that point where we must avoid asking simple question's-like,what is there understanding of radiant energy,and cold electricity,in fear of insulting those making claims of having a free energy device.

I am looking at Tanju's picture of his garden being lit with 75 watt's,and although it looks great,i am sure you would agree that when using LED's,the whole back yard could be lit up like christmas using 75 watt's.

I have 11 x 5 watt LED light bulbs throughout my house,and can light the whole house all at once with 55 watts of power.

You know very well that both of us have been through the very same thing-in the same situation,and even today,some times we still do.
I for one would have it no other way,in that i learn from what others have to say,and i prefer them to be straight to the point.

My understanding of
Cold electricity-->high voltage,low current