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Author Topic: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)  (Read 45431 times)

Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #60 on: June 26, 2017, 01:54:28 AM »
Well I do not know it yet.  Perhaps a scope shot across the 80V capacitor and an actual schematic on the output parts could shed some further lights on an answer.  And also, a dependable light meter to check lux emitted would also help. Brightness to our eyes can be decisive, unfortunately.

Gyula
I will try to get the scope shot of the 66000 Microfarad smoothing capacitor  tomorrow but I still suspect I will see nothing but a straight line at 80 volts???
Your calculation 300 ma divided by 7 branches equal 43 mA is OK but I dont see the 43 mA on the VI chart of the LED. The chart starts at 200 mA . It is off the chart. How come The LED even lights, My eye is not a  luxmeter of course but I use them in my garden  at night where it is as bright as a football stadium.

gotoluc

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #61 on: June 26, 2017, 06:47:58 AM »
For those who have problems login in, try this link and let me know if it works any better: http://overunity.com/login/#.WVCRM-srKUk


Luc

verpies

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #62 on: June 26, 2017, 10:44:24 AM »
LED spec says 28-30 volts and 700 miliamperes. That gives me an internal resistance of  40 ohms. 3 in series is 120 ohms and 7 parallel branches give me an overall internal resistance of 120/7= 17.14 ohms
LEDs do not have a constant resistance. They have a variable resistance that decreases as the voltage across them increases.
Below some threshold voltage, LEDs have almost infinite resistance (i.e. they do not conduct current almost at all).

Take a look at the attached scopeshot.  The yellow trace is a voltage across a single LED and the green trace is the current flowing through the same LED.

The emitted light intensity (luminosity) is proportional to the current - not to the voltage!

I must also mention another peculiar thing which I witnessed.  In the video I have 15 LEDS and my my output current was still 0.3 Amps I later added 2 more parallel branches which brought the LED qty to 21.
And to my surprise the current did not increase. Does this prove that radiant energy "loves" load? ???
No, it proves that you are driving these LEDs from a constant current source.
Inductors (coils) are constant current sources when they are discharging.

gyulasun

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #63 on: June 26, 2017, 10:52:14 AM »

Hi Gyula,  I'm guessing you meant "Brightness to our eyes can be deceptive" ?   
....

Yes, I meant and wanted to write 'deceptive', thanks for the correction.
I agree with what you wrote Tanju setup is interesting but needs careful measurements to correctly evaluate its performance.

Gyula

gyulasun

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #64 on: June 26, 2017, 10:54:10 AM »
I will try to get the scope shot of the 66000 Microfarad smoothing capacitor  tomorrow but I still suspect I will see nothing but a straight line at 80 volts???
Your calculation 300 ma divided by 7 branches equal 43 mA is OK but I dont see the 43 mA on the VI chart of the LED. The chart starts at 200 mA . It is off the chart. How come The LED even lights, My eye is not a  luxmeter of course but I use them in my garden  at night where it is as bright as a football stadium.

Hi Tanju,

Yes, I agree on your seeing a straight line, normally a 66000 uF capacitor is a good filter to smooth out most ripple voltage. If you have already checked this, and confirmed the ripple (if there is any visible) is say less than a few hundred millivolts peak to peak then that is okay it may not cause any surprise riding on the 80 V DC level and you do not need to recheck it. But I do not know whether you already did this that is why I mentioned. Perhaps this check would bring more interesting results in case of the 10 or 20 Ohm resistor load across the 66000 uF.

I also agree that 43 mA is off the chart but I do not know whether your actual LEDs exactly corresponds to that LED type the PDF file data sheet Itsu found? You mentioned the tighter 28-30 V forward voltage range as the difference, that is all. The best would be to check DC current in some of the LED branches out of the 7 to see the actual values whether the 43 mA is reality?

Thanks,
Gyula

Temporal Visitor

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #65 on: June 26, 2017, 11:44:15 AM »
For those who have problems login in, try this link and let me know if it works any better: http://overunity.com/login/#.WVCRM-srKUk


Luc

Yes this login link works fine, I was unable to login otherwise.

Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #66 on: June 26, 2017, 11:53:47 AM »
LEDs do not have a constant resistance. They have a variable resistance that decreases as the voltage across them increases.
Below some threshold voltage, LEDs have almost infinite resistance (i.e. they do not conduct current almost at all).

Take a look at the attached scopeshot.  The yellow trace is a voltage across a single LED and the green trace is the current flowing through the same LED.

The emitted light intensity (luminosity) is proportional to the current - not to the voltage!
No, it proves that you are driving these LEDs from a constant current source.
Inductors are constant current sources when they are discharging.

My Bedini Inductors are before the  66000 Microfarad capacitor, they discharge to the capacitor through diodes. Is it considered still as constant current source?

verpies

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #67 on: June 26, 2017, 12:30:54 PM »
My 650 watts is calculation knowing the rpm . dimensions and weight of the flywheel you can reach angular  momentum and moment of inertia thus power and energy.
Please do not confuse the energy stored in a flywheel with the power delivered by that flywheel to an external load (e.g. to a "prony brake" or a "pigtail generator").

The rule of thumb is that when the torque on the flywheel is zero then no energy is flowing out (or into) the flywheel and the power is zero, too.  Zero power does not mean that a large amount of energy is not stored in the motion of the flywheel.  Power is an energy flow - not the energy itself ( in other words: power is an amount of energy changing per time, i.e. Joules per Second ).

I have not actually measured the mechanical power output. I don't have the means to do so.
How about a prony brake ?

verpies

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #68 on: June 26, 2017, 01:22:33 PM »
My Bedini Inductors are before the  66000 Microfarad capacitor, they discharge to the capacitor through diodes. Is it considered still as constant current source?
The diodes do not change the character of the current source.

The capacitor does, but not entirely. The entire energy still is supplied from the inductors but is passively filtered by the capacitor.
Eventually an equilibrium is reached and that is why adding more LED strings in parallel does not change the total current (it does change the current per string (branch), though).

Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #69 on: June 26, 2017, 01:56:28 PM »
This is my output meter.

Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #70 on: June 26, 2017, 02:28:19 PM »
Here are the updated schematics of my system.
I hope I dont have any mistakes because it is difficult to draw schematic after you make things work. mod after mod.

Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #71 on: June 26, 2017, 02:32:17 PM »
Our moderator went to silent mode.
Hı Luc are you alive!?

partzman

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #72 on: June 26, 2017, 02:52:31 PM »
I agree with TinselKoala I must get a decent Luxmeter somehow. Regarding loaded shaftpower I think I answered  that question in my previous posts.
To patzman; The voltage level at the massless displacement capacitor is slightly less then battery voltage I could achieve max  22 v0lts by playing with my time delays in the arduino sketch. Because it is a step charge operation time constants irrelevant.

Tanju,

I'm finally able to logon using the upper login button!  Actually the operational time constants are relevant.  For example, if your circuit is developing energy in a capacitance via massless current, the time to do so should be less than normal current conduction for the same energy level.  IOW, if less energy is drawn from the source via the massless current charging of a capacitor than the resultant energy stored in that capacitor, this would result in an energy gain as I'm sure you know.  This operation could be confirmed with calculations taken from reasonably accurate scope measurements.

Normally step charging a capacitance is conservative and would provide no energy gain.

PM   

gotoluc

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #73 on: June 26, 2017, 03:33:31 PM »
Our moderator went to silent mode.
Hı Luc are you alive!?

Hi Tanju

I start my day around 9 am EST.
I was reading the new posts and see you were able to upload pictures. Please send me the (full size) pics of your new circuit so I can post them on the first post. Do you need me to do anything more?

I see you are now in the best of hands with advice from verpies, gyulasun and partzman
I'll just monitor (not advise) from now on as these individual are way more qualified then me and I trust them 100%

Regards

Luc

tinman

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #74 on: June 26, 2017, 03:44:05 PM »
Tanju,

I'm finally able to logon using the upper login button!  Actually the operational time constants are relevant.  For example, if your circuit is developing energy in a capacitance via massless current, the time to do so should be less than normal current conduction for the same energy level.  IOW, if less energy is drawn from the source via the massless current charging of a capacitor than the resultant energy stored in that capacitor, this would result in an energy gain as I'm sure you know.  This operation could be confirmed with calculations taken from reasonably accurate scope measurements.

Normally step charging a capacitance is conservative and would provide no energy gain.

PM

massless current ?

Are you referring to massless displacement current ?.


Brad