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Author Topic: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)  (Read 19782 times)

Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #45 on: June 25, 2017, 08:44:42 PM »
Some of my fellow researchers from another Research Forum are having issues loging into this forum.

The below is a copy and paste of questions and concerns they have written to date:

TinselKoala [24|Jun 06:29 PM]:   Luc, please point out to Tanju and everyone else who may care, that once a flywheel is running at a constant speed with no shaft load, the only power it dissipates is that required to overcome bearing friction and windage.

partzman [24|Jun 09:28 PM]:   Luc, my question for Tanju was going to be "What voltage level does the capacitor charged from 'massless current' reach and how does it compare with a normal time constant calc?".



TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:00 PM]:   Further, he says his LEDs are not flickering, and offers the LDR resistance as evidence of equal light output. OK, so let's see a _scope trace_ proving that the LDR is seeing a steady, nonflickering light output from the LED.

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:35 PM]:   Note what the WIKI says about photoresistor latency and stability. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...esistor "unsuitable for sensing rapidly flashing lights" and "unsuitable for applications requiring precise measurement of or sensitivity to light photons"

TinselKoala [24|Jun 10:40 PM]:   However he claims that his filtering capacitors are assuring straight DC power to his LEDs. Why then do they not heat up? This is a real issue that must be resolved by proper measurements.

I agree with TinselKoala I must get a decent Luxmeter somehow. Regarding loaded shaftpower I think I answered  that question in my previous posts.
To patzman; The voltage level at the massless displacement capacitor is slightly less then battery voltage I could achieve max  22 v0lts by playing with my time delays in the arduino sketch. Because it is a step charge operation time constants irrelevant.

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Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #46 on: June 25, 2017, 08:51:58 PM »
Found some Arduino Lux Sensors if anyone is interested to add to their capabilities of measuring light:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2374313.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xarduino+lux+sensor.TRS0&_nkw=arduino+lux+sensor&_sacat=0

Yes I tried to make one  but they are still using an LDR and you must do all kinds of logaritmic conversion to get a linear LDR or lux output.

Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2017, 09:01:15 PM »
I had a thought : if the current used to light those leds is really that small then it will be interesting to test how much smaller wire diameter is possible to use here without heat damage ?

That is a very interesting thought! I started beleiving that those 21 PowerLEDs  each specified as 20 watt LEDs in the spec only drawing 300 milliampers in total.

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #47 on: June 25, 2017, 09:01:15 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #48 on: June 25, 2017, 09:47:17 PM »
let me answer your motor question first
Yes it is a dc motor 110 v0lts and can also be used as a generator. And I tried that , but I could not get more than 13 volts with the 200 rpm I have and the bicycle chain ratio I have . Those gears  are two straight gears (no gearbox). In order to use it to charge back my battery I must increase it to more than 26 volts.

Thank you Tanju for the new details and test report.
I'm not surprised the 110 Volt DC Motor at 200 rpm will only deliver 13 volts which is not enough to charge the input batteries. That would of been too easy. However, you can still use it as a mechanical load test to see how much the device is affected by a mechanical load. If you attache a 1 Ohm resistor to the motor and it can sustain 10 vdc across 1 Ohm = 100 Watts as long as the resistor does not overheat which could cause the resistor value to change and affect the power measurement. You can try with higher value resistor like 2 Ohms at 10 vdc = 50 Watts and so on.
These load tests would give you a good idea as to how much power is truly available from the 670 Watts of stored mechanical power in the flywheel you calculated and how much the rpm is affected when the flywheel is loaded.

Now, the pure resistance load test:
I had only 11 Watt stone resistors available so I tested with 3 resistors
100 Ohms Voltage drops to 54 v0lts and the current I measur is the obvious natural 540milliamps. PLUS HEAT
20 OHMs Voltage drops to 30 volts The current is 1.5 Amperes MORE HEAT!
10 Ohms Voltage drops to 24 volts Current 2.4 Amperes MORE! MORE Heat!
Then I went back tomy 3by7 Led array 80 volts 300 milliamps NO HEAT and More and MOre LIGHT!
I am pissed off!

The best result is the 10 Ohm load. If it sustain 24 vdc and maintaining resistor value at 10 Ohms = 57.6 Watts which is a reliable power measurement if the resistor did not overheat and start to increase its resistance.
Did you notice if the 75 Watts of input power was affected when you connected the 10 Ohm load to the output?
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you wrote: Then I went back tomy 3by7 Led array 80 volts 300 milliamps NO HEAT and More and MOre LIGHT!
Are you saying the 21 LED array does not light anymore since you did these resistor load tests?
Thanks for doing these test and sharing your results.
Regards
Luc

Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2017, 10:36:08 PM »
Thank you Tanju for the new details and test report.
I'm not surprised the 110 Volt DC Motor at 200 rpm will only deliver 13 volts which is not enough to charge the input batteries. That would of been too easy. However, you can still use it as a mechanical load test to see how much the device is affected by a mechanical load. If you attache a 1 Ohm resistor to the motor and it can sustain 10 vdc across 1 Ohm = 100 Watts as long as the resistor does not overheat which could cause the resistor value to change and affect the power measurement. You can try with higher value resistor like 2 Ohms at 10 vdc = 50 Watts and so on.
These load tests would give you a good idea as to how much power is truly available from the 670 Watts of stored mechanical power in the flywheel you calculated and how much the rpm is affected when the flywheel is loaded.

The best result is the 10 Ohm load. If it sustain 24 vdc and maintaining resistor value at 10 Ohms = 57.6 Watts which is a reliable power measurement if the resistor did not overheat and start to increase its resistance.
Did you notice if the 75 Watts of input power was affected when you connected the 10 Ohm load to the output?
I'm sorry but I don't understand what you wrote: Then I went back tomy 3by7 Led array 80 volts 300 milliamps NO HEAT and More and MOre LIGHT!
Are you saying the 21 LED array does not light anymore since you did these resistor load tests?
Thanks for doing these test and sharing your results.
Regards
Luc

It should have read;
Then I removed the resistor load and put my 21 LED s back and  I got 80 volts 300 milliamperes and the Previous dazzling brightness and no heat.

10 volts across 1 ohm????   I dont think that motor can deliver 10 amps as generator. Even the thin terminal wires will melt.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #49 on: June 25, 2017, 10:36:08 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #50 on: June 25, 2017, 11:11:27 PM »
It should have read;
Then I removed the resistor load and put my 21 LED s back and  I got 80 volts 300 milliamperes and the Previous dazzling brightness and no heat.
Okay, got it.

10 volts across 1 ohm? ???   I dont think that motor can deliver 10 amps as generator. Even the thin terminal wires will melt.
The numbers were just an example. I have no idea of the size your motor is but from your comment it looks to be a toy and explains why you're not using it to do tests.
Regards
Luc

Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2017, 11:14:18 PM »
I do not understand those Bloody LEDs!
When I was doing the resistor tests I witnessed another strange thing.
When I remove all Load My output voltage goes beyond 100volts so I stop immediately not to exceed my filter capacitors rating.
Restarting the device with just one (1) LED as load The output voltage starts rising but stops at 30 volts does not go beyond that.
Then I connected two Leds in series this time the voltage does not go beyond 56 volts,
and finally when I connect Three Leds in series the voltage is stable at 80 volts
In all above cases the Leds have the same brightness.
This crazy thing is adjusting itself to the Led forward voltage limit,
I could not and should not try but if I connect 4 LEDs in series then the voltage may go up to 110-120 volts (I suspect)???

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2017, 11:14:18 PM »
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Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2017, 11:26:33 PM »
Okay, got it.
The numbers were just an example. I have no idea of the size your motor is but from your comment it looks to be a toy and explains why you're not using it to do tests.
Regards
Luc
I do not think it is a toy motor guessing by the size 2 inch diameter and 4 inches length It may deliver 1 amp max
I got the idea, I will see up to what current it will load. I will do this test also.

Offline cheors

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2017, 11:34:31 PM »
I think this is normal : LEDS  are similar  to Zener diodes with a threshold voltage.


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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2017, 11:34:31 PM »
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Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2017, 11:46:14 PM »
I think this is normal : LEDS  are similar  to Zener diodes with a threshold voltage.

Thanks
I think this answers my questions.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2017, 12:03:19 AM »
I will be doing the pure resistance experiment tomorrow because it is midnight here now.
LED spec says 28-30 volts and 700 miliamperes. That gives me an internal resistance of  40 ohms. 3 in series is 120 ohms and 7 parallel branches give me an overall internal resistance of 120/7= 17.14 ohms
So instead of the LEDs I will connect a 17 ohm resistor and see what happens.
I must also mention another peculiar thing which I witnessed.  In the video I have 15 LEDS and my my output current was still 0.3 Amps I later added 2 more parallel branches which brought the LED qty to 21.
And to my surprise the current did not increase. Does this prove that radiant energy "loves" load? ???

Hi Tanju,

Well, it is a good question but I would say as long as we can explain things by conventional science no need to turn to 'fancy' things. 

[I just noticed member cheors mentioned the Zener like nonlinear LED behaviour while I prepared this answer.]

I mean the followings: you surely know LEDs have a relatively steep VI characteristics i.e. assuming voltage source_like drive a small forward voltage change across them may cause high forward current change in them i.e they behave like Zener diodes do.
You connected 3 LED arrays (having 28-30V forward voltage each) in series to get a 84V-90V forward voltage range and you also paralleled 7 such arrays and you measure 80V forward voltage at 300 mA overall forward current.

Now you wish compare this LED power data to a resistor power data. It is not comparable, because a resistor has a linear VI characteristic and no Zener diode-like behaviour. I know you know this and sorry to mention but we tend to think that way.
You measured 80V across your LED array, dividing this by 3 it gives 26.6 V forward voltage drop for a single LED out of any 3 in the series strings. This means such LED receives less than its specified 28-30V hence its own current draw must also be much less than the specified 700 mA of course, you measured 300 mA for the 7 paralleled branches. We need to divide 300 by 7 = 43 mA to get current in any of the branches. This is possible due to the Zener-like characteristics. 

From your resistor load tests the inner resistance of your 80V 'voltage source' comes as if it would change between 23 Ohm and 48 Ohm values: is there any series component like a diode in the output going to the LEDs that may change nonlinearly with load current? If there is not any series components, then what may cause the change?

Could you show a scope shot across your 80 V (presumably DC) voltage source (that collects the 'radiant') while feeding the LEDs? First use DC coupling for the scope input and just for curiosity, check it in AC coupling to increase AC amplitude resolution to see how pure DC the high value capacitor(s) provide (i.e. how much ripple voltage is there if any).

Gyula

EDIT I attached a LED VI characteristic curve from the data sheet member Itsu provided earlier. Your LEDs may have even steeper VI curves than the type shown.

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #55 on: June 26, 2017, 12:03:19 AM »
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Offline Tanju

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #56 on: June 26, 2017, 01:08:32 AM »
Hi Tanju,

Well, it is a good question but I would say as long as we can explain things by conventional science no need to turn to 'fancy' things. 

[I just noticed member cheors mentioned the Zener like nonlinear LED behaviour while I prepared this answer.]

I mean the followings: you surely know LEDs have a relatively steep VI characteristics i.e. assuming voltage source_like drive a small forward voltage change across them may cause high forward current change in them i.e they behave like Zener diodes do.
You connected 3 LED arrays (having 28-30V forward voltage each) in series to get a 84V-90V forward voltage range and you also paralleled 7 such arrays and you measure 80V forward voltage at 300 mA overall forward current.

Now you wish compare this LED power data to a resistor power data. It is not comparable, because a resistor has a linear VI characteristic and no Zener diode-like behaviour. I know you know this and sorry to mention but we tend to think that way.
You measured 80V across your LED array, dividing this by 3 it gives 26.6 V forward voltage drop for a single LED out of any 3 in the series strings. This means such LED receives less than its specified 28-30V hence its own current draw must also be much less than the specified 700 mA of course, you measured 300 mA for the 7 paralleled branches. We need to divide 300 by 7 = 43 mA to get current in any of the branches. This is possible due to the Zener-like characteristics. 

From your resistor load tests the inner resistance of your 80V 'voltage source' comes as if it would change between 23 Ohm and 48 Ohm values: is there any series component like a diode in the output going to the LEDs that may change nonlinearly with load current? If there is not any series components, then what may cause the change?

Could you show a scope shot across your 80 V (presumably DC) voltage source (that collects the 'radiant') while feeding the LEDs? First use DC coupling for the scope input and just for curiosity, check it in AC coupling to increase AC amplitude resolution to see how pure DC the high value capacitor(s) provide (i.e. how much ripple voltage is there if any).

Gyula

EDIT I attached a LED VI characteristic curve from the data sheet member Itsu provided earlier. Your LEDs may have even steeper VI curves than the type shown.

Very informative input. Thank you very much. But still does not answer my questıon. How can I get such high luminious intensity even though the Leds are subject to a voltage lower than  the low threshhold voltage 26.6 vs 28
Tanju

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #57 on: June 26, 2017, 01:27:13 AM »
Well I do not know it yet.  Perhaps a scope shot across the 80V capacitor and an actual schematic on the output parts could shed some further lights on an answer.  And also, a dependable light meter to check lux emitted would also help. Brightness to our eyes can be decisive, unfortunately.

Gyula

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #58 on: June 26, 2017, 01:38:39 AM »
Well I do not know it yet.  Perhaps a scope shot across the 80V capacitor and an actual schematic on the output parts could shed some further lights on an answer.  And also, a dependable light meter to check lux emitted would also help. Brightness to our eyes can be decisive, unfortunately.

Gyula


Hi Gyula,  I'm guessing you meant "Brightness to our eyes can be deceptive" ?   Rule of thumb I've learned from flashlight forums is it takes almost double the brightness in lumens to be a noticeable difference to the human eye.   
Also I'm not sure if I'm up to speed on the discussion of LED brightness here with regards to this circuit but LED's can look quite bright running on pulsed DC or AC so unless you have a scope of the voltage it might appear less than what the lower input voltage an LED needs. 

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Overunity Device by Tanju Argun (Moderated)
« Reply #59 on: June 26, 2017, 01:40:54 AM »
I will ad that Tanju's setup is very interesting and I once again think it may be a confirmation that flywheels in combination with the right motor and generator setup can do some fascinating things probably including OU.   

 

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