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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: hartiberlin on November 23, 2006, 01:36:47 AM

Title: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: hartiberlin on November 23, 2006, 01:36:47 AM
Have a look at this:
http://www.foxvalleykart.com/timing1.html

There is an interesting passage which says:

"Think of it This way; if you've ever closed a water faucet real fast, you sometimes get a "shock wave" in the water pipes. They call it "water hammer" and it makes a noise like someone banging once on the water pipe. Sometimes it happens when the washing machine is running and one of its valves closes real fast. Anyway, the same thing can happen, more or less, to electrical current flowing through an inductor. If the current flowing to the ground in the primary circuit of the ignition system is suddenly stopped because the circuit is broken, the current "bounces" back. In electrical circles it's called "inductive fly-back" and it's what creates the voltage spike that the the coil then steps up to enough voltage to jump the sparkplug gap."

==============
So can this be a way to generate these kicks inside a coil by generating something like a shockwave inside a coil
and if the shockwave is in resonance with the mechanical size of the coil, this might get positive feedback ?

How do we generate a shockwave inside a coil like a waterhammer effect in a waterpipe ??

Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: hartiberlin on November 23, 2006, 01:44:07 AM
I still remember the guy Schaefer building a steam engine
on the waterhammer effect.

http://www.rexresearch.com/schaeffe/schaeffe.htm


It is probably the same as the Griggs Hydrosonic pump effect.
Now we have to apply this to electrical current.
How do we produce these shockwaves over there in coils ?

Is a big Newman coil with its fast mechanical on-off switching a shockwave generator ?
When Newman did put 10.000 Volts DC via a mechanical fast switch onto
a very big coil, he could light up all sorts of neon bulbs around it from the
immense RF bursts generated. I still have the old videos from the 1980s...!

Maybe Steven Mark has found an electronically way to do it without
mechanical switching ?
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Grumpy on November 23, 2006, 01:49:21 AM
exactly

the shockwave is in the field around the coil due to the sudden collapse

waves coming together will cancel, add, pass by out of phase

Edit: Write this down:

immagine two waves coming in opposite direction - slam together - rapid increase in field - waves pass - cavitation of field with resulting shockwave - no switching - very clever!!![/[/u]b]

also see my other posts in the other TPU threads.

EDIT:

see here: http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html

Field will rise and collapse very quickly - kick is proportional to speed of field change - must have air core or will dampen.

MUST have very accurate frequency for control.

More later...
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: hartiberlin on November 23, 2006, 05:13:45 AM
So how could this open double ring TPU then be built?
Maybe 4 coils in series pulses on each end with a pulse, so pulses collide in the center
and then then 2 magnets might deflect the 90 degrees outputed shockwaves ( RF bursts)
letting them run in circles like electrons deflected by a helmholtz coil in a vacuum tube ?
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Grumpy on November 23, 2006, 02:57:14 PM
Stephan,

Many ways to look at it.  Start with simple tests. 

Signals on one wire or two wires?  With speaker wire or electric cord - two wires parallel - signals can pass in opposite direction - each induces field in other opposite to itself - can you time correctly to have signals combine like superpositioned waves?  Start with vry accurate frequency and phase shift until you get superposition .  Use coil around the two wires to detect.

Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Paul-R on November 23, 2006, 04:14:21 PM
Its back to the John Worrell Keely's hydro-vacuo machine, which looks like something out of Jules Verne, probably because it dates roughly to that era.
Paul.
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: hartiberlin on November 23, 2006, 04:46:40 PM
Stephan,

Many ways to look at it.  Start with simple tests. 

Signals on one wire or two wires?  With speaker wire or electric cord - two wires parallel - signals can pass in opposite direction - each induces field in other opposite to itself - can you time correctly to have signals combine like superpositioned waves?  Start with vry accurate frequency and phase shift until you get superposition .  Use coil around the two wires to detect.



Hi Grumpy,
great idea,
so not using just one wire to drive one pulse from each end,
but using 2 wires in parallel.
Probably gives more coupling, when used in twisted pair  or not ?
But normallyin telephone lines twisted pair is also used to REDUCE the coupling,
so probably twisted pair is NOT good for a bigger coupling !??


I wonder, how I could do it just with 1 wire ?

If we look at the analogon of a long spring 2 people holding at the end.
If each person makes an amplitude pulse at each end
the two transversal hills will just superimpose like:
http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html

But what happens, when we use a longitudinal pulse at each end ?

The question is, if our voltage pulse fed in at each end is a transversal
pulse or a longitudinal pulse ?

I really want to collide these little spinning "gyrsocopic" particles,
as if these collide, they really fly a away with a huge force and convert their
spinning energy into radiation...
I lately tested something like this with some kids gyroskopic toys,
which you could put in glas bowl and when they hit with each other in the right manner,
each was flying really apart across the whole room !

So how can we generate this effect in a wire or in 2 wires ?
any ideas ?
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: hartiberlin on November 23, 2006, 04:52:20 PM
I think a longitudinal pulse on each side is much more better to get
a real shockwave inside a long wire !

Maybe one could do it this way:

Have a long coil with a center tap and
apply at each end Plus 1000 Volts DC.
Then shortly tap the center tap to ground potential ( zero volt)
and a current pulse will travel from each coils end into direction
center tap and before it reaches it, you have already removed the
ground potential there..
So what will happen,
when the 2 wavefronts will meet at the center ?
Will they colloide and produce radiation at 90 degrees ?
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Grumpy on November 23, 2006, 05:19:44 PM
Google something like this:  superposition parallel wires opposite

Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: lltfdaniel1 on December 05, 2006, 11:06:46 PM
wait, how about hydrogen and oxygen and then clash in a fuel cell = electric???
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: raburgeson on December 06, 2006, 12:27:39 AM
It's also called inductive kick, so yes I think your talking about a kick. the reactance of the curcuit would have to be able to resonant too. If all you have is the inductance of a straight conductor the tank circuit would oscillate and dampen so quickly I don't think our scopes would show us much. A cool thing is the coil can kick the primary and secondary at the same time. It doesn't happen often but it can.
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: hartiberlin on December 06, 2006, 01:50:50 AM
Hi All,
I bought 2 days ago this nice toy on a christmas market:

http://astore.amazon.com/overunity-20/detail/B000AS206O/104-5341152-7530351

These are pretty strong magnets with a hematite very polished surface !

If you hold then about 1 to 2 cms apart and through them
together into the air, they are attracted to each other and
can oscillate very much , when they come together and bounce back and forth !
It gives an amazing sound !

They are also called Shockwave magnets...
Is it a real shockwave, what makes this buzzing sound ?

Maybe one could induce this buzzing sound with an electromagnet
driver coil and use a bifilar coil as the output coil to extract useful
and more energy ?

This would be a good experiment to try !

By the way, these are simular magnets:

http://astore.amazon.com/overunity-20/detail/B000G6U2F6/104-5341152-7530351

Try them , it is really fun to play with them and hear this buzzing noise !
A MuST HAVE toy for Christmas to annoy your ants !  ;D ;D ;D
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: hartiberlin on December 06, 2006, 02:14:37 AM
These magnets should also be quite nice
and will produce probably also quite a big buzzing sound !

http://astore.amazon.com/overunity-20/detail/B000JSGO8A/104-5341152-7530351

If they do this sound, there is probably also much induction
into a pickup-coil.
If this pickup coil could be designed bifilar with no Lentz law drag back,
we could have a positive feedback loop and amplification..

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: lightbody on December 31, 2006, 09:13:53 AM
  Newbie. The question would give that away, but seriously...
I looked at the link here: http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html
 at the two g'ian waves colliding...adding constructively...and then passing through each other.
  Um. I have some tenative poblems/questions. First. I also tend to think of current as waves b/c that's easy to visualize. When a wave reflects it flips phase polarity. So, you would only get destructive interfearance when the reflected wave collides head-on with a wave going the other way...a zero voltage, with no spike. Yes the field would collapse, but it would not experience a 'kick'. 
  I can't relate a  simple voltage collapse with a 'cavitation' such as a physical cavity implosion. That to me seems more like a semantic red herring. All it would be is an interruption in current, like a fast switch, as you suggest. I don't think that would create any shock wave, though it may draw more power from the source like a hard start-up, which isn't 'free energy'.
 Could anyone clarify what would make a shock wave as discussed. Explain it to poor ole lightbody.
  One thing is that  Hummm...yes, an input wave, when bounced in the opposite direction would be opposing time-phase polarity, but would it also flip charge polarity? 
 In vid. 4 (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=steven+marks+generator&hl=en) SM says that the current in the primary is AC even though the meter is set to DC to read the output. So, yes, there is some tantalizing evidence that this reflected wave effect may be part of the operation of the device. Come on. Somebody pick up this shock wave thread and lay it out cold. Are my objections above rational?
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: giantkiller on December 31, 2006, 02:46:49 PM
  Newbie. The question would give that away, but seriously...
I looked at the link here: http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/Demos/superposition/superposition.html
 at the two g'ian waves colliding...adding constructively...and then passing through each other.
  Um. I have some tenative poblems/questions. First. I also tend to think of current as waves b/c that's easy to visualize. When a wave reflects it flips phase polarity. So, you would only get destructive interfearance when the reflected wave collides head-on with a wave going the other way...a zero voltage, with no spike. Yes the field would collapse, but it would not experience a 'kick'. 
  I can't relate a  simple voltage collapse with a 'cavitation' such as a physical cavity implosion. That to me seems more like a semantic red herring. All it would be is an interruption in current, like a fast switch, as you suggest. I don't think that would create any shock wave, though it may draw more power from the source like a hard start-up, which isn't 'free energy'.
 Could anyone clarify what would make a shock wave as discussed. Explain it to poor ole lightbody.
  One thing is that  Hummm...yes, an input wave, when bounced in the opposite direction would be opposing time-phase polarity, but would it also flip charge polarity? 
 In vid. 4 (http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=steven+marks+generator&hl=en) SM says that the current in the primary is AC even though the meter is set to DC to read the output. So, yes, there is some tantalizing evidence that this reflected wave effect may be part of the operation of the device. Come on. Somebody pick up this shock wave thread and lay it out cold. Are my objections above rational?

Google: freak wave. Happens all the time, everywhere, in everything.

--giantkiller. Surf's up dudes!
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Grumpy on December 31, 2006, 04:15:32 PM
Rogue waves - hmm

Read up on Dirac's Delta function.  Pulse of infinite peak, minimal width, and infinite harmonics - literally all hell breaking loose in the EM field.

The shockwave is produced by the sudden cut off of electrical energy.  The pulse is going somewhere - it must return to a state of balance - so it is released as radiant energy - we just intercept it with a collector.  This primary electric field is not conservative and does not have to be.   This is not the A-Field that everyone hears about, but the Phi field.  It is electrostatic in nature, and creates the other fields A, E, and B.

In a toriod coil, B is trapped in the core, E is in the wire, and A goes through the middle, phi is integrated over the toroidal surface perpendicular to the wire.  So, when you stop the pulse, it comes out perpendicular to the wire, as phi.

There are many ways to wind a coil...
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: HMM on December 31, 2006, 11:47:25 PM
When you say that two electrons are made to collide.  "quantum entanglement"

have a look here:  www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-9075.html
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: lightbody on January 01, 2007, 05:06:11 AM
Thanks particularly to Grumpy. Do you have any refrences for me to look up, hard-copy or otherwise? I like your explaination of the various fields because it is visual. Are there any drawings/animations that I could look at to see what you are talking about with the phi field..etc? That brings up a good issue. Is there anyone around who would care to put pictures to the Mark TPU...an animation that shows what you think is happening?
  Yes. I think I understand a little better now. When the ground connection is interrupted the traveling wave in the wire (current) stops and has to change into something else in order to conserve it's energy. If it changes into an electrostatic field, how would you re-convert that back to another traveling wave in another coil? -anyone?
  If not converted into an electrostatic field (i may have mistaken what you were saying) then perhaps it changes into another type of traveling wave...such as a longitudinal EM wave (a so-called 'scalar'... a crapy name for these waves IMO). If that needs to be re-converted into a transverse wave in order to come out as useable current in the secondary coil(s), then there may be some hint as to how that happens in these classic vids
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=longitudinal+electricity
 
  Is that what's going on in a TPU?
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Grumpy on January 01, 2007, 09:10:03 AM
Basic electrodynamics.  I am not an expert of any sort.   I just tinker and ask the right questions.

The phi field seeks balance, not conservation.  As it must.

It does not change into something else, it returns from which it came.  The collector just intercepts it.

When an electric field is put in motion (phi) it creates a current (A).   Fields E and B are secondary - like a biproduct or after effect.

Transverse wave can not propogate outside a medium - must be longitudinal - per Tesla.


Just thinking out loud...

Title: TPU flyback inductance and longitudinal
Post by: lightbody on January 01, 2007, 09:57:04 AM
Ok. Ok. Well, The heroic moderator has provided links for me to look at, and I finally groked them (thank you). The flyback impulse would surely occure in a fast switched dc coil. But, that could not be the source of any OU as far as I can tell. What it does is it jacks up the voltage in a transient spike.
 Fine. Now, smash two of these spikes together in a destructive interfearance (E-fields bucking) may produce a strong longitudinal wave radiating out from the primary. I hate to invoke him, but Bearden says that whenever you buck electric or magnetic field pulses, a longitudinal 'scalar' radiates away. If that is of high enough voltage/frequency, then is 'shakes the ether'. So, smashing to opposing transient spikes together may be a convienent way to get a high frequency/voltage scalar radiations...another way than T. patent in the boarderlands vids. i refered to.
  Shakeing the ether...to me that means coupling to the vacume energy density VED, and THAT is something I could see producing OU. I don't want to do this, but I have to envoke exotic effects to justify OU in this case. I think that there are longitudinal waves that reach at least 100% the local perception of the speed of light...and thus couple to the fundamental frequency of VED. I (cringe) also think that the VED (call it the ether or aether if you like) may be actually what we would percieve as a 'superluminal' field. Think of it as an electrostatic field vibrating at superluminal frequencies.
  What I'm saying is that a longitudinal ripple (shock wave) of sufficient voltage and frequency may exceed the local speed barrier of light, and thus tap into and break the equillibrium of the VED...that would create current where there was only voltage...it's like getting an electrostatic field to discharge as an arc.
  So, the flyback transformer spike that creates an arc in a spark gap would be a low voltage/frequency version of a TPU...which does the same thing, only at much higher voltages/frequencies. The "gap" the speed of light...and the arc is the discharge of the VED. It's a two-stage transient spike generator. I guess. 
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Grumpy on January 01, 2007, 03:53:28 PM
"Pulse transformers" are a common means to produce pulses.  Lots of noise coming out with the spike - rings like hell after it.
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: lightbody on January 02, 2007, 08:34:28 AM
  Yea, that is where the high frequency part comes in. The harmonics are really screaming - probably would scope as a high amplitude, short duration square wave. They (the harmonics) are only part of the signal, and the higher up you go the weaker they become, but they are there.
  You might be able to jack up the frequency of a normal batterie's input signal so as to light a incandescant bulb with very low current (see below). It's possible that is all that's happening in the video. It's hard to meter the acutal power that its putting out.
  Still, just assuming that is not it...they way to explain any OU would probably involve sucking current out of the ambient VED (ether). It's got a lot of normal components, and nothing strange like really high freq. equip, but that doesn't mean something strange can't be happening.
  He talks about the main coil possibly getting overly hot. So, that would likey not be a problem of normal resistance (ohmic heating). He seems visably concerned about the heat...which may indicate that this is a flyback pulse transformer, which in prolonged operation would develop hysteresis from the 'bouncing/reflecting' spikes as they change direction. Since it's also bumping up the frequency by introducing a lot of signal distortion (harmonics), then there would be eddy current losses from skin effect, and that would also produce heat.
  Since no one can tell exactly how the coils are wound we have a real problem figureing out exactly what the heck the TPU is doing. I'm sorry to be so theorhetical about it, and not suggesting a configuration to try (typical annyoing newbie).
  My best guess is that it's operating as a tesla-type longitudinal wave oscillator, and that he's figured out a way to create the waves without special high frequency equipment, and is catching the OU current from the disturbed ether in his secondary(s). If that is the case it would be worth it to watch these in full, and even perhaps try a reproduction..
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=longitudinal+electricity&hl=en
  there may be a clue to the winding of his coils somewhere in the device explained in the vids above. if it's working on the same L-wave principle. Also, I may be totally wrong about the whole 'ether' aspect of it as even tesla liked to say that his L-wave power transformers/generators were interacting with the earth's fields instead of some more fundamental 'weelwork of nature'.

 Devils Advocate:
That's all based on the asumption that it's not just a really inefficeint high frequency inverter/converter that is capable of lighting a bulb with very low power due to high frequency characteristics. There are some battery powered, small high freq. dc sources out there that will probably light incandescent bulbs with small batteries, small enough to fit in his device, like these...
http://www.blazelabs.com/e-exp03.asp
  SM may have found a way to make one like these long before anyone else. But, I would like to belive otherwise and just stick to tesla's L. wave principle.
Title: Re: Is the KICK a shockwave ?
Post by: Grumpy on January 02, 2007, 03:54:03 PM
The clamp meter indicates that a strong varying magnetic field is in the center of the TPU.

Tesla experienced a strong physical heating effect when using a certain range of pulse widths - 100 micro-second duration - or maybe it was 1 micro-second.  Anyway, beyond this he found a cooling effect at shorter durations.

It is my understanding that the TPU can literally burn up due to this heat.  I hope that I can duplicate the cool electricity that Tesla found with shorter pulse widths.


Tesla was very adament about the pulses not reversing - no reverse current.  Like a ram jet - just keeps the flow going and never lets up.


There are many many ways to wind the coils - naturally some will be better than others.

Start with this:  when the signal is abruptly stopped in the wire - the radiant energy is released out of the wire in all directions perpendicular to the wire.  This RE impinges on a conductor and imparts a charge to it.  Turbo explained this pretty well before he went quiet.  So, as you can see, the configuration that everyone is following is not the only one that will work.

With the Dirac Delta Function, the frequency view looks like spikes approaching infinity.  The time view looks like an almost infinite square wave.  Like a DC component with hash on top. (sound familiar?)