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Author Topic: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)  (Read 23246 times)

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #45 on: June 29, 2017, 12:59:15 PM »
Hey Brad

I had some of these conversations back nearly 10 yrs ago at another site that was mostly made to study the Whipmag motor. At least that is mostly what was discussed. I see it more fluid and more like air as the field is compressible, most liquids are not. And Air is more considered a fluid than a liquid. I see it like bubbles that only really interact with other bubbles. Some bubbles attract and others repel.

An interesting discussion we had was the possibility of the spinning stator magnets sort of communicating with each other through the bubbles of the rotor magnets. There were 2 diametric mags on bearings that were in sync with the spinning rotor and one stator of the same flicked in reverse after the rotor was spun up and it would actually lock in sync, in reverse with the rotor. It was just a hunch as we were trying all our best to figure the thing out and get one working. But I can imaging that 3 stators possibly being slightly altered in their synced rotor motion by way of the chain of magnets around the rotor. I really enjoyed those days.


Mags

Hi Mag's

I dont know much about the Whipmag motor-never followed it,and so,i have very little input i could give on it.

I would like to stick to the discussion about moving a magnet passed a coil faster,in order to gain more current,as i have found a couple of hole's in both verpies and eventually MarkE's conclusion.
There is also obviously a flaw in the test carried out,where a magnet was withdrawn from a super conductive ring at different speed's,and yet made no difference to the current flowing within that SC ring-that makes no sense at all,as the time constant would make no difference to the outcome,other than a quicker withdraw speed should result in a higher current flow within that SC ring.\

We are also discussing it here,and i am hoping verpies will join us there-along with others well versed in the subject at hand.

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3485.msg63100;topicseen#msg63100

I think MarkE should have stuck to his gun's,but i feel that he got confused when he tried to add in the shorter time value,as that makes no difference to the outcome regarding the withdrawing of a PM from a SC ring.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #46 on: June 29, 2017, 03:46:31 PM »
 author=verpies link=topic=17297.msg507674#msg507674 date=1498491131]



Quote
Please read these links and reply to me if you still want to continue the debate about this subject in this thread.

I am replying,and wish to continue the debate.

Quote
My answer is still "no". The induced current depends on ΔΦ (a change of flux penetrating a coil) not on the speed of that change (or "rate of change") as denoted by dΦ/dt.

I believe the above is incorrect.


Brad

Offline jbignes5

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2017, 05:22:14 PM »



 Going back to the initial subject of this post:


 https://sites.google.com/site/teslanichelson/


 https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21ACMuj1L6gcNOvio&cid=E5A6FA1D7F4103D6&id=E5A6FA1D7F4103D6%21182&parId=E5A6FA1D7F4103D6%21115&o=OneUp


 Please read it all and delve into areas that you might not be familiar with. Then come back and try to discuss this.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #47 on: June 29, 2017, 05:22:14 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #48 on: June 29, 2017, 07:44:22 PM »
Where do ghosts come from? Where do pink flying unicorns come from?

My point is this: It seems rather silly to be asking "Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)" when there is no solid evidence for any OVERUNITY using induction coils in the first place, especially not from Joule Thiefs.

Offline antijon

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 08:39:49 PM »
@TK I have evidence, just not solid.  ;D

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #49 on: June 29, 2017, 08:39:49 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #50 on: June 30, 2017, 01:24:44 AM »
Brad,

I think that in your test you should use a lower capacitance for the faster pass of the magnet.

I think that you should use all 3 values for both the slower speed pass and the higher speed pass.

More data points are a good thing :)

No,because we want to keep the coil peak voltage the same,which will leave only an increased value of current that is the cause of the larger cap having the same EMF value across it.


Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2017, 01:25:45 AM »
The parameters of my test to be carried out

Test will be carried out in two parts
Part one
1-A magnet will be pasted across an inductor at a set constant speed
2-The distance between the magnet and inductor will remain unchanged in both parts of the test.
3-The inductor will retain the same peak value voltage across it for both parts of the test.
4-The capacitor will be charged in the first half of the cycle,and discharged(shorted)in the second half of the cycle,so as each cycle starts with a discharged cap.
5-The capacitor value for the first half of the test will be 220uF
6- 5 captured cycles will be recorded,and averaged out--the recording will be the voltage potential across the 220uF cap. From this we can calculate the average energy received from the coil for each single pass.

Part two
1-This part of the test is much the same as part one,but where we change the 220uF cap out for a 470uF cap.
2-The speed at which the magnet passes the inductor will be increased until such time as the peak voltage across that inductor is equal to that of what it was in part one of the test. This way we know that an increased voltage potential(EMF)across the inductor is not responsible for !a yet to be determined! outcome of the test.
3-Once again,5 captured cycles will be recorded ,and averaged out,so as we can calculate the energy received from the coil for each cycle.

From this test,where we have kept the EMF value across the inductor the same throughout each of the two test's,we can then arrive at 1 of two conclusions
 
Conclusions

1-If in each of the two test's,the value of the stored energy in the two cap's calculates out to be the same,then we can conclude that passing a magnet over a coil faster,dose not increase total current value delivered from that inductor.

2-If we end up with more stored energy in the 470uF cap,where we moved the magnet across the inductor faster,then we can conclude that you do get a higher total current value if you move a magnet across an inductor faster.

If anyone can see a flaw in these test parameters,please feel free to point them out.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #51 on: June 30, 2017, 01:25:45 AM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2017, 03:22:01 AM »
Tinman I love your test. You are my kind of experimenter....  - simple and clear...

Norman

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2017, 06:39:31 AM »
If you are going to move the magnet faster I will still suggest you try it with a smaller cap,,

A smaller capacitance at a higher voltage might surprise you with more energy stored, most likely not,, but I thought I would mention it.

Of course the test could fall on its face with a cap that is to large to start with,, I was surprised at how small the single pass cap needs to be with some of the testbeds I have played with.

If then moving the magnet faster and filling a smaller cap up to a higher voltage has more energy stored within the cap,, then what?
I figure you will get there anyway,, seems like the logical thing to do as well.

I wonder if there is a "virtual" resistance value for a cap to a voltage\amperage\Coulombs kind of thing.

Once again Webby,the larger cap is to keep the voltage across the coil at the same value we had in the first part of the test.

If the voltage potential remains the same,what would be needed in order to fill a larger cap,in a shorter time period of time,to a voltage of what the smaller cap had?.

The answer is simple.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2017, 06:39:31 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #54 on: June 30, 2017, 11:30:29 AM »
If we make the magnet pass really slow, its like a tornado with 10mph winds

Mags

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2017, 12:52:57 PM »
I had an interesting comment in an email today-name withheld.

Quote: Then the answer is no, you don't get more instantaneous current flow from the coil the faster the magnet passes the coil.

Below are a couple of scope shot's
I placed a 100 ohm resistor across the coil i have been using in my test's,and the scope across the coil/resistor parallel circuit.

The first scope shot is of the magnet passing the coil at the slow speed.
The second scope shot is with the magnet passing the coil at very close to twice the speed.

You might like to note the rms value of the current in both scope shot's,where that rms value is calculated over 16 cycles in each.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #55 on: June 30, 2017, 12:52:57 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #56 on: June 30, 2017, 03:58:03 PM »
.

Offline antijon

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #57 on: June 30, 2017, 05:02:44 PM »
Could someone help me clarify this?

We know that a generator's internal resistance reduces power transferred to a load, but doesn't the inductive reactance of the generating coil also play a part in the total impedance?

Is it fair to assume that as frequency increases, so does the total impedance?

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #58 on: June 30, 2017, 05:30:55 PM »
Could someone help me clarify this?

We know that a generator's internal resistance reduces power transferred to a load, but doesn't the inductive reactance of the generating coil also play a part in the total impedance?

Is it fair to assume that as frequency increases, so does the total impedance?

Is impedance the same in these two cases?
Are you sending current through a coil,that produces a magnetic field-or are you  sending a magnetic field through the coil,that induces a current ?.

Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #59 on: June 30, 2017, 06:05:04 PM »
Ok,the video on my low speed test.

Will be building the test bed for the mid to high speed test tomorrow,as that gets a little more tricky to short the coil each cycle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xANse1LZi74


Brad

 

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