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Author Topic: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)  (Read 22921 times)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline antijon

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #76 on: July 04, 2017, 03:41:05 PM »
I have to agree with Jbignes regarding bifilar coils. "Decreasing the resonant frequency" is the same as saying - reducing the inductive reactance, which is also the same as saying - reducing the counter emf. I think this is evident in Tesla's patent. He designed this specifically as an electromagnet operated by AC current. If a high power electromagnet is needed, it suffers from high reactance which reduces the magnetic force. Increasing the capacitance, or lowering the resonant frequency, increases the power transferred to the magnetic field.

I really don't understand the argument about the JT though. I'm pretty sure the OP just included it in the title because he thinks increasing frequency gives OU.

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #77 on: July 04, 2017, 03:41:06 PM »

I feel like this investigation was fairly short lived considering the encouragement from a certain few individuals regarding this concept.  I'm still working on this as I don't think this investigation of bifilar coils has been fully vetted.

As you know,it was looked into deeper at OUR.

I spent weeks and dollars on this,and the only difference i found,was a reduction in resonant frequency of the BPC.

The added capacitance also reduced the time the current flow through the coil hit it's peak,but we are talking only uS here,when the two coils are driven at the same frequency.

Both the BPC and single wound PC both have CEMF--that is just something you cannot get rid of in an inductor--and why would you want to?.

Without CEMF,the current would rise to it's maximum value instantly.
This means you have no control over when and where on the current curve you can switch off the current flow.
Imagine how much excess heat would be created by the inductor.
Imagine no CEMF in your electric drill motor,where the drill would draw maximum current(stall current),even if you were not drilling anything.

How about a generator with no CEMF  :D
No CEMF= no output from the generator.

jbignes5 said my experiments had nothing to do with this topic-passing a magnet passed a coil.

Well if he had of been paying attention,then he would see what it has to do with CEMF--the very thing he is trying to eliminate.

How many times now have we seen the self acclaimed Tesla ex/spurts come in here,and try and tell us all how it's done,and what needs to happen?.
Then  the good old !resonant joule thief! pop's up,and off the Tesla fans go.

So,we either carry out the experiments our selves,and get the correct answer's,or we listen to lost of !double speak!  ::)


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #77 on: July 04, 2017, 03:41:06 PM »
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Offline web000x

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #78 on: July 04, 2017, 04:00:28 PM »
As you know,it was looked into deeper at OUR.

I spent weeks and dollars on this,and the only difference i found,was a reduction in resonant frequency of the BPC.

The added capacitance also reduced the time the current flow through the coil hit it's peak,but we are talking only uS here,when the two coils are driven at the same frequency.


Brad


Most of you that were working on the bifilar pancake coil, from what I can tell, didn't get into the side of investigation dealing with excitation via mutual induction.  This is where I am working.  TK did get into this but I'm not sure how far he took it.


@Milehigh,
This is in response to your PM.  I never said anything about a series configured bifilar coil.  Those are your words.  As was before, as is right now, I will continue to investigate this despite your discouragement.


Dave

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #79 on: July 04, 2017, 04:02:35 PM »
 author=antijon link=topic=17297.msg507911#msg507911 date=1499175665]
 
Quote
I really don't understand the argument about the JT though. I'm pretty sure the OP just included it in the title because he thinks increasing frequency gives OU.

So if were talking about the JT,what has bifilar coils and Tesla got to do with it?


Quote
If a high power electromagnet is needed, it suffers from high reactance which reduces the magnetic force.

No it dose not.

Quote
Decreasing the resonant frequency" is the same as saying - reducing the inductive reactance,which is also the same as saying - reducing the counter emf

There are a number of things that can cause a reduction in resonant frequency-higher winding capacitance for instance  ::)
And what happens when you reduce the counter EMF ?

Quote
Increasing the capacitance, or lowering the resonant frequency, increases the power transferred to the magnetic field.

No it doesn't.
It increases the displacement current between windings,and this creates more waste heat.

Quote
I have to agree with Jbignes regarding bifilar coils.

You are welcome to believe who ever you choose.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #79 on: July 04, 2017, 04:02:35 PM »
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Offline antijon

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #80 on: July 04, 2017, 06:21:03 PM »
 :o Brad what are you talking about?

Of course a large electromagnet has high inductive reactance! A transformer with no load on the secondary is an electromagnet, and how strong do you think it's magnetic field is? It's not strong at all, because the field is equal to the power consumed by the coil, minus it's internal resistance.

I don't know if you're arguing for the sake of it or if you're being serious.


Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2017, 01:33:01 AM »
:o Brad what are you talking about?





Quote
Of course a large electromagnet has high inductive reactance!

That depends on the electromagnets design,which would depend on it's inductance value.
We can design an electromagnet with a very strong magnetic field,but with low inductance value,or one with a strong magnetic field,but with a high inductance value.

Quote
A transformer with no load on the secondary is an electromagnet,

No it's not.
Get your self a transformer,power it up with the secondary either open or loaded,and see how much iron or steel you can pick up with it.
There is a big difference between an electromagnet and a transformer.
An electromagnet has an open magnetic path,where a transformer has a closed magnetic path.

Quote
and how strong do you think it's magnetic field is? It's not strong at all, because the field is equal to the power consumed by the coil, minus it's internal resistance.

Once again,that all comes down to the design of the electromagnet,and the field strength is not only due to the amount of current flowing through it.

The Tesla BPC is one of the worst electromagnet designs out there.
A single wound coil around a core is far more efficient as an electromagnet.

Quote
I don't know if you're arguing for the sake of it or if you're being serious.

Im being dead serious.
You build your best Tesla BPC electromagnet,and i'll build a normal single wound electromagnet.
We will then both drive those electromagnets with an AC,and see who can lift the most weight with the least amount of power.

So lets both put our money where our mouth is-so to speak.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2017, 01:33:01 AM »
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Offline antijon

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2017, 02:41:52 AM »
So that's what you're talking about. I never mentioned anything about a pancake coil, and Tesla's bifilar patent only uses that image to give a proper understanding of his winding method.

Quote
I would here state that by the term coils I desire to include generally helices, solenoids, or, in fact, any conductor the different parts of which by the requirements of its application or use are brought into such relations with each other as to materially increase the self-induction.

His patent specifically refers to solenoids and mentions nothing about pancake coils, so I don't understand why people use those... except for tesla coils.

Please show me what you mean by a strong electromagnet with low self inductance. But if you're talking about a high winding resistance then please don't. Resistance in series with a coil also reduces it's reactance. And if you're talking about building a coil tuned to a particular frequency, that's cheating.

And there are solenoid transformers that don't have a closed path, but that's beside the point. The point is that you said bifilar windings and capacitance doesn't reduce inductive reactance, and if you truly believe that, then just tell yourself you won because I don't know what else to say.


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2017, 03:56:08 AM »




@Milehigh,
This is in response to your PM.  I never said anything about a series configured bifilar coil.  Those are your words.  As was before, as is right now, I will continue to investigate this despite your discouragement.


Dave

Thanks for responding to him in public. I just went through a week or so of his crap in pm. Your post is in agreement of my arguments against him. We had about a 7 member audience which he pm chained earlier, so this round I included Stefan. One of my complaints was that he discourages people here from doing things that we are suppose to be doing here.. He denied it, but here we go again. More evidence.  ;D

If it continues I suggest that anyone that gets these pms from him report them to Stefan.  ;)   He is on moderation for his garbage and he thinks he has a right to continue his deeds in pm attacks. We dont need his negative bias here any longer.  Something wrong with that guy.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2017, 03:56:08 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2017, 04:34:12 AM »
So that's what you're talking about. I never mentioned anything about a pancake coil, and Tesla's bifilar patent only uses that image to give a proper understanding of his winding method.

His patent specifically refers to solenoids and mentions nothing about pancake coils, so I don't understand why people use those... except for tesla coils.

Please show me what you mean by a strong electromagnet with low self inductance. But if you're talking about a high winding resistance then please don't. Resistance in series with a coil also reduces it's reactance. And if you're talking about building a coil tuned to a particular frequency, that's cheating.

And there are solenoid transformers that don't have a closed path, but that's beside the point. The point is that you said bifilar windings and capacitance doesn't reduce inductive reactance, and if you truly believe that, then just tell yourself you won because I don't know what else to say.

First off,i never said an increase in winding capacitance dose not reduce CEMF.
I said that no mater how much you try and increase winding capacitance,an inductor will always have CEMF-so lets get that righht,and dont start saying i said things i never said.

Second-my challenge stands-build any type of bifilar transformer or electromagnet you like,and i will beat it in every way.

Brad

Offline web000x

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2017, 04:48:59 AM »
Thanks for responding to him in public. I just went through a week or so of his crap in pm. Your post is in agreement of my arguments against him. We had about a 7 member audience which he pm chained earlier, so this round I included Stefan. One of my complaints was that he discourages people here from doing things that we are suppose to be doing here.. He denied it, but here we go again. More evidence.  ;D

If it continues I suggest that anyone that gets these pms from him report them to Stefan.  ;)   He is on moderation for his garbage and he thinks he has a right to continue his deeds in pm attacks. We dont need his negative bias here any longer.  Something wrong with that guy.

Mags


Yeah, I was about to respond to him on his last PM but realized that I was wasting my time as there is always a rebuttal to any response that was preceded by the attack.  I just like to suggest my direction and hope I can disappear back to the lab with maybe some curious exchange in between with fellow members of the forum. But I have on multiple occasions felt assaulted for my curiosity into the direction of bifilar coils by Milehigh. 


My official testimony.


Dave

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #85 on: July 05, 2017, 04:48:59 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2017, 05:36:36 AM »

Yeah, I was about to respond to him on his last PM but realized that I was wasting my time as there is always a rebuttal to any response that was preceded by the attack.  I just like to suggest my direction and hope I can disappear back to the lab with maybe some curious exchange in between with fellow members of the forum. But I have on multiple occasions felt assaulted for my curiosity into the direction of bifilar coils by Milehigh. 


My official testimony.


Dave

"But I have on multiple occasions felt assaulted for my curiosity into the direction of bifilar coils by Milehigh. 


My official testimony."

lol. Isnt it funny?  Of all the things that are fake and useless, he seems to pound on any mention of bifi coils with the most intent of discouragement.   ??? ::) ;)

Keep looking and keep experimenting.  ;)

Mags

Offline tinman

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2017, 06:30:57 AM »
"But I have on multiple occasions felt assaulted for my curiosity into the direction of bifilar coils by Milehigh. 


My official testimony."

lol. Isnt it funny?  Of all the things that are fake and useless, he seems to pound on any mention of bifi coils with the most intent of discouragement.   ??? ::) ;)

Keep looking and keep experimenting.  ;)

Mags

Good advice Mags.


Brad

Offline antijon

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #88 on: July 06, 2017, 01:30:57 AM »
Brad, I have no clue about bifi coils, but thanks for inviting me to make one. It'll have to wait a few months though, I'm still living in a van down by the river. But if I made one it would just be tuned with a cap to 60hz.

But getting back on topic, has anyone tuned a transformer with a cap in series and checked the output? Didn't webby mention something about resonance?

Offline citfta

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Re: Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)
« Reply #89 on: July 06, 2017, 03:52:37 AM »
Look up ferroresonant transformers.  The ferroresonant transformer is probably older than you are.

 

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