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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: ageofmagnetizm on May 20, 2017, 02:07:51 AM

Title: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 20, 2017, 02:07:51 AM

Construction of Asymmetrically Coiled  C- and G- Cores and X- and Y-shaped
multy-polar Magnets and methods of  production of magneto-electric induction
and Positive Magneto-motive  Feedback and efficient generation of electricity.


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/a3c-x-magnet


Tree new articles and six more videos has been uploaded.


Replication and testing of conceptual prototypes will be supporting here also discussions about
new publication and similar known designs.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on June 05, 2017, 11:40:10 PM
The report about
SIMPLE MEGS AND  SEMI-PERMANENT ELECTROMAGNETS.
has been updated with two more utility designs of Generators having rotors with
hollow magnets.
Please read it and discuss which of designs seems most efficient for utility prototype

(https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/_/rsrc/1495230384375/home/magnetomechanics/MEGSLOGO.jpg) (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/simple-megs-and-semi-permanent-electromagnet)
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/simple-megs-and-semi-permanent-electromagnet




(https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/_/rsrc/1496695785051/home/magnetomechanics/simple-megs-and-semi-permanent-electromagnet/MEGSHOLLOWMAGNETPERPENDICULAR.jpg) (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/simple-megs-and-semi-permanent-electromagnet/MEGSHOLLOWMAGNETPERPENDICULAR.jpg?attredirects=0)
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on June 05, 2017, 11:43:44 PM
I suppose that following design will need least force for generation, what are other ideas?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Low-Q on June 05, 2017, 11:54:25 PM
Hmmm. You might need to add a second coil via capacitor.
Don't know if it will work, but the capacitor will delay the magnetic field in the second coil so this motor will start spinning in the same direction all the time.


I know that for 1-phase AC- motors, a capacitor is used on a third coil to mimic 3-phase power supply. Depending on which coil this capacitor is connected to, the direction of the rotor is one way or the other. It also increase its efficiency. Without the capacitor, such motors just makes a humming noise from the 50Hz grid power and most likely doesnt start to run. If it does, the direction could be one way or the other. 50/50 chance.


Vidar
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on June 06, 2017, 08:52:56 AM

Hi Low-Q,
first of all I need to notice that here are discussing rather generators than motors, such that
developing parts can improve efficiency of conversion of mechanical force into electricity,
it should not to be confused that I'm discussing a motor because that all experimental prototypes
are made for utilities having electromagnetic generators, such as wind or hydro or gas turbines where
blades or airfoils producing rotation of axis carrying magnets which move near set of coils
such generating electricity and producing Negative Magnetomotive Feedback.


Thanks for suggesting a capacitor, I thought that simple commutators with sliding contacts will suffice,
or those variants where coil over magnet is coupled with coil over ball bearings can produce alternating magnetic fields round moving magnets so increasing and decreasing magnetic fields of permanent magnet and causing magnets acceleration when moving toward core with coil and  weakening magnets deceleration when it is moving away from core with coil - such producing Positive Magnetomotive Feedback. Though, seems that impulses of increasing DC fed to coil round magnet should be considering too.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Low-Q on June 07, 2017, 08:19:59 AM
The picture you posted in your recent post, is a magnet with coil around it. When the magnet pass through the iron core, you will generate electricity through the coil.
This is the same principle as an electric guitar. The pickup is a set of magnets and coils. I don't think this method is reducing feedback. If you happen to have one of these guitars, you can try shortcircuit the coils and see what happens to the sustain on the strings when you play on them. The strings will stop viberating sooner if you short circuit the coils. However, the coils in guitars have rather high impedance, so the back EMF is relatively low. In adittion, the strings are relatively far away from the pickup.


I can do a simple experiment. I have lots of copper foil that has been used in foil inductors for high end speaker crossovers. The foil is uninsolated, so the result will be a "massice copper tube around the magnet.
When this foil is winded around a magnet, and the magnet is approaching an iron core, the magnet will approach the iron core as it was going through syrup. I will post a video if you like.


Vidar
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on June 07, 2017, 10:50:28 AM

Hi Low-Q,
I've never had a guitars and need (I shall) to learn about the coils in guitars,
once suggesting coil over magnet I had in mind "Anelectropermanent magnet or EPM" at:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electropermanent_magnet


often utilizing for lifting purposes and as door-locks, where coils are used for operational
switching of and on magnetic fields of permanent magnet. I still need to work out its practical design
having for now only conceptual set up where moving magnet can generate EMF in one of the coils round
ferromagnetic core - and that coil will be connected to the coil round permanent magnet acting similar to
those coils explained in Wikipedia article (link above). 


It will be very nice if you'll do as you want and post picture and link to videos out here, those conceptual
prototypes presente in first two experimental series are very easy to replicate and test,
though if any information is needed - than I'm eager to help. Following is image of simplest coil with U-Core and bare magnet generating twice more currents than same coil with I-Core inducing by the same magnet.
 
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Low-Q on June 07, 2017, 03:12:50 PM
Yes, you get twice the current with the U-core, but also twice the input energy from moving the magnet. The U-core will, as you say, be more efficient, but the same thing happens with an I-core with two different distances to the magnet. The closer you get, the more the induced current in the coil. Increased induction have a cost. Well known in all electric motors.


An important concern regarding measuring input energy and forces, is that many do this by hand. It is impossible to measure with the hand. Specially if the forces are very weak, and you "measure" again with a little more force, it is barely noticable - if noticable at all, but you get higher output readings with the voltmeter. Then people scream "EUREKA!! - I GOT OVER UNITY!" :-)))


Vidar
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on June 07, 2017, 06:20:16 PM

Hi Low-Q,
here are tree simple arguments and explanations:


1. quo.: ...you get twice the current with the U-core, but also twice the input energy from moving the magnet.
    answ.: twice input of energy happens because that both magnetic poles acting for induction of EMF, while all contemporary generators having magnets with only one magnetic pole moving near one end of a coil. Though force which is necessary for motion of magnet is proportional to its mass not to number of magnetic poles, see - one of magnetic poles do not need to be moved without use... Plus, coils with I-Cores producing Negative Magnetomotive Feedback decelerating inducing magnet, while  coilc with U- C- G- or similar cores producing Zero Magnetomotive Feedback so that magnet moves through ferromagnetic core as easy as it moves through the air. Here comes double of magnetic force and minus Negative Magnetomotive Feedback.
2. quo.:  The closer you get, the more the induced current in the coil.
    answ.: indeed, the width of air gaps is proportional to inducing EMF, and I have compared magnet moving near coil with I-Core with 10mm air gap between them, and same magnet moving near bars of long curved core with same 10mm air gaps between magnetic poles and bars, when widths of air gaps where different (exmpl.: 3mm with I-Core and also 3mm with U-Core) - then voltage readings are higher but proportion remain the same.
3. quo.: An important concern regarding measuring input energy and forces, is that many do this by hand.
    answ.: al measurements are made on the same pendulum having same magnet where pendulum arm is lifted vertically up again stopper then released to free fall without any other input than input producing by gravity pulling pendulum arm down from the exactly same posission with exactly same force causing exactly same velocity... and readings are twice higher..


And I do not "scream "EUREKA!! - I GOT OVER UNITY!" :-)))", it is not overunity but simple innovation of utilization of same known components acting accordingly to known laws but generating electricity in more efficient manner because of novel methods and constructions.
Once I'm posting here it is because that energy of moving whole magnet do not need to be wasted by utilization of just one magnetic pole and there many variants of development which could be interesting for guests and users of this group.


Take it easy, and preview your post before clicking on post button. This will save you from reading your post with filling of shame. No need to worry, just ask and I'll explain.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on June 09, 2017, 03:09:51 AM

One more utility design of simple MEG has been published at:


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/simple-megs-and-semi-permanent-electromagnet


New design has stator with H-Core with many coils on it.
Please make your suggestion which of nine published designs should be preferred for manufacturing prototypes.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on February 26, 2018, 07:47:38 AM

Two more reports have been published.

Do not miss the last one where testing of
Permanent Magnets Generator of Megneto Mechanic Electro Induccting Rings
 is generating electricity with ZERO losses of energy. Read about testing at:


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on March 01, 2018, 02:32:36 AM

Also do not miss the video of testing of prototype of RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdQ07VbeBVI


where Drive Motor with 16.2 watts Li-Ion battery turns
Generator with four coils connected to multimeters showing 97 ohms resistance and 43 volts AC
such that power output is 19.04 watts or in horse power:
Drive motor approx. 0.021 HP input   ---  Generator approx. 0.025 HP output.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on April 27, 2018, 02:41:17 PM

Read new article about construction and function and testing of
the Axial Flux Permanent Magnets Generator of Magneto Mechanical Electro Inducting Rings.
Generator is made as experimental prototype and during various testing has manifested hyperefficiency
 - converting energy so that output of electric energy is more than 1000% of input of mechanical energy.

https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator

Mechanical 16.2 watts power input is being converted into 47, 89, 119 and finally 163 watts electrical output,
what means that energy conversion rate is approximately 1000%.

Following picture shows generator being assembled with four CCCs surrounding eight-magnets rotor.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: truesearch on April 28, 2018, 07:46:27 PM
@ageofmagnetizm

This is interesting to me. I'd like to see more of these experiments and results.


Good luck!


truesearch
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on April 28, 2018, 10:39:34 PM
Read new article about construction and function and testing of
the Axial Flux Permanent Magnets Generator of Magneto Mechanical Electro Inducting Rings.
Generator is made as experimental prototype and during various testing has manifested hyperefficiency
 - converting energy so that output of electric energy is more than 1000% of input of mechanical energy.

https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator)

Mechanical 16.2 watts power input is being converted into 47, 89, 119 and finally 163 watts electrical output,
what means that energy conversion rate is approximately 1000%.


Hi ageofmagnetizm

I would like to understand why you write electrical output power of 47, 89, 119 and 163 Watts when you do not have any load across the output coils? You measure unloaded output voltage (your digital voltmeter is not a load of course). From your site:

RPM           ohms      volts      watts
400             448         82          15
1400           448         270        163

IF I understand correctly your output watt numbers seems to be calculated from P=V2/R where V is the output voltage and R is the DC resistance of your coil you measure with the DMM. IF this is what you meant, I strongly disagree with this, you need to use a load across the output coil because your coil is an open circuit and no any load current is taken from it.

To correctly estimate efficiency of your total setup, the input power to your drill is to be measured: what is the actual DC voltage and current it draws from its battery when driving the shaft of your LOADED generator. 
And for estimating the output power you need to use a power resistor or a incandescent lamp or a LED lamp across your output coil and also measure output voltage and current at the same time to get actual output power (here I assume that for the load types I listed the AC current flowing through them is in phase with the AC output voltage across them).
Then you can compare the input and output power numbers to get an idea on efficiency. 

IT is very probable that a useful load when you connect it across the output coil will impose a drag on your drill, making it draw higher current from its own 10.8V Li-Ion battery hence input power would increase. 

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on April 29, 2018, 01:39:02 AM

hi Gyula,


1. input power: the drive motor has the product description and specification booklet explaining that accu has 16.2 W and 10.8 V  and 1.5 Ah, and shaft torque 15Nm - these are maximums taken into calculations.


2. digital multimeter: it also has booklet explaining how to measure electrical resistance and AC voltage - simply connecting leads to terminals and switching dial on necessary function. There are no explanations about AC or DC resistance - only electrical resistance, and there is no function for AC currents - only AC voltage, and there are no explanations about needs of additional devices such as lamps or power resistors.


Interesting is your suggestion about measuring with a load, would you please, post here a link to scientific literature where such measurements are explained such that I can learn specifics and features of such proceedings.



Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on April 29, 2018, 01:44:29 AM

Hi truesearch,
thanks for encouraging me,
but I have to encourage you and other here to replication or building of similar simple experiments,
which will expand the borders of knowledge.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on April 29, 2018, 12:46:43 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

1) you surely know that a battery can be overloaded for a certain short time i.e. abused beyond its normal
ratings and if you do not monitor its output voltage and current you will not be aware of it when your generator
setup may overload it.
2) in User Manuals for digital multimeters the text does not always include the How to or What to measure
with detailed explanations etc and it is also unfortunate your meter does not have AC current measuring function.

I quote this part from you:  "Interesting is your suggestion about measuring with a load,"  you sound as if
this would be the first time you hear about such thing and I could say this is interesting when you build such setups.
In your home any electrical appliance is a load to your mains input and these appliences have a rated power
consumption and your Watthour meter registers their consumption. When you disconnect all appliences the meter
does not register consumption in your home. Your generator setup output is no exception: it provides an AC output
power when you attach a load across its output. And if you do not have a load there is no output power while your
drill still runs your setup and consumes power from its Li-ion battery.

Anyway, See this link first and please go through on it all:
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/power-in-ac-circuits.html (https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/power-in-ac-circuits.html)

and then I suggest the followings: use a power resistor as the LOAD across your output coil.  Because you will
know the Ohm value, you can really calculate the power dissipated in it by the formula V2/R and no problem your
multimeter has no AC current measuring function, it is not needed in this case: just measure the AC voltage
across it and then use the formula.

Very likely the RPM of your drill will be reduced the moment you connect the load resistor to the generator
output coil or at least that is what is expected in most setups, I wish you should not experience that in your setup.
If you do, then you would need to check input current and voltage to your drill to get a meaningful efficiency test.

Why I suggest the use of a power resistor: it has a known resistance so it loads your output coil with a constant
value unlike to say an incandescent lamp which has a nonlinearly changing resistance in function of the voltage across it.

Your output power measuring method can exactly be the same like measuring AC power taken from either
the mains or from the secondary coil of a mains transformer, you can find many explanations on AC power
measurements at Wiki or elsewhere.

Because you cannot measure AC current with your present multimeter that is why the use of
a known load resistor is needed.

See Figure 2 in this link http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/transformers.htm (http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/transformers.htm) where power measurement
is explained in a mains transformer: an AC ampermeter is shown in series with load resistor R1 in the secondary
coil too. Your generator output coil corresponds exactly to the secondary coil of this transformer when
its output power is to be measured. But you will choose a known R1 load resistor so that you can use
V2/R1 formula for output power by measuring only the AC voltage across R1. 

Gyula

Edited to make text lines less wide
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on April 29, 2018, 02:52:30 PM
for gyulasum,


here is the picture of multimeter inner smart components, there are small battery and small loudspeaker and smal but smart electric circuits allowing fast and simple measurements of electrical resistance and output AC voltage which are necessary for calculation of power output.


and here is link to article on Wikipedia explaining how multimeters function when measuring:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter


Alternating current sensing
Since the basic indicator system in either an analog or digital meter responds to DC only, a multimeter includes an AC to DC conversion circuit for making alternating current measurements. Basic meters utilize a rectifier circuit to measure the average or peak absolute value of the voltage, but are calibrated to show the calculated root mean square (RMS) value for a sinusoidal waveform; this will give correct readings for alternating current as used in power distribution. User guides for some such meters give correction factors for some simple non-sinusoidal waveforms, to allow the correct root mean square (RMS) equivalent value to be calculated.

next week I'll wright more about how and why I"ve published such measurement and some more about other measurements, but for now read about multimeter and the rectifier circuits build inside of the device:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

and have a nice weekend too...

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on April 29, 2018, 05:20:47 PM
What you write as quoted on multimeters sounds ok BUT has nothing to do with the fact that
you have not used any load across your generator output coil to estimate output power.

You seem to be really lacking the needed understanding of this neasurement topic in electronics.

I wish you good luck in your endeavours.

Gyula

PS if you reduce your uploaded picture size to have a max of 900 to 1000 pixels horizontally,
instead of the 2048 pixels,  then we do not have to scroll horizontally back and forth to read the posts.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on April 30, 2018, 11:30:13 AM

Glad that I've got chance of explaining that applied multimeter is sufficiently smart for
knowing of real electrical resistance and real AC voltage for calculations. there is one more
important function of  multimeter which I use during testing and which I explain by following
image illustrating this though experiment:
when multimeter is connected to both lamp and power source (electric generator or accu etc.) -
then it can function as simple on-off switch. On the schema above - the multimeter is switched off
and current does not flow in circuit and lamp produces no light because that circuit is
disconnected inside of the multimeter, and on the schema below - the multimeter is switched for
measurements of electric voltage allowing current to flow through whole circuit also through
multimeter, what is indicating by the light producing by the lamp.
produced light manifests that current flow through multimeter hence multimeter act as load -
very small load but some.


During my testing I switch multimeters on and off such allowing currents to flow
through electric circuits made of coils of generators and multimeter...
this is important for my following explanations of testing - to understand
that during measurements of voltage current is flowing through wires of stator and
when multimeter is switched off then there no current in testing coils.


here is picture of said thought experiment and following are explanations of testing generators with and without loads.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on April 30, 2018, 11:59:50 AM
Using test equipment in ways it was not designed to be used only gives erroneous results.  I can use my $200 camera as a wheel chock to
keep my car from rolling.  But that is not the best way to use my camera.  And that is not going to give me the results I would get if I used my
 camera correctly.  You really really need to take some basic electronic courses because you are very confused about how to use meters and
 how electricity works.

You should also know that the cheap Harbor Freight meters you are using are not very accurate.  I have several of them for quick testing and
 some very good meters for when I actually want accurate measurements.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on April 30, 2018, 12:54:30 PM

to citfta,
cheap does not means inappropriate, some times I use my grandfather's hammer and it works well.
I have some very old very simple voltmeter and it needs supplemental circuits for different measurements,
but those cheap multimeters are fine - just look on above picture at left side - it has sort of  microprocessor in it.


Now about testing generators with loads. Such suggestion is based on folks truth which is confirmed by countless
trails of turning a shaft of generators when its are disconnected from load and connected to load -
manifesting that a shaft of disconnected generator moves much easier than shaft of a generator connected to load.
This is absolutely true, except that it is incompleet knowledge which comprises no details of the processes and reasons
of differences.
When is asked which electrical load in watts needs twice or ten times more input power in Newton meters
then seldom engineer will produce an answer. The simple fact is that connected generator needs more power input
 because that its coils become connected to external circuit such allowing current to flow though wires of stator,
and when generator is disconnected - then current can not flow in coils of a stator.
These flowing currents makes the difference inducing own magnetic field which interact with magnetic field of a rotor
such causing deceleration of moving magnets and Producing Negative Magnetomotive Feedback -
when current can not (does not) flow through wires then there no magnetic fields decelerating magnets of rotor and shaft moves easier.


here is link to short video where stator of generator has two parallel electrical circuits each made of coil connected to own multimeter


https://youtu.be/6FZ6kz6cs2o (https://youtu.be/6FZ6kz6cs2o)


first multimeters shows electrical resistance of each coil separately when rotor is motionless, then multimeters are switched
on AC voltage and drive motor turns rotor causing alternating magnetization of C-Cores of coils -
this causes EMF and currents flow in two parallel circuit what is indicated on displays of two multimeters.
Flowing currents inducing own magnetic field which does not decelerate rotor moving far from coils.
The, continuous testing shows one multimeter switched off so disallowing current to flow in one of coils while other coil
remains with switched on multimeter which shows AC voltage to compare with voltage generating when current flows in both coils.
That is manifestation of efficiency of MMEIR-Generator where magnetic field of coils do not decelerates moving magnets of rotor.


Read previous report where I explain Zero Magnetomotive Feedback in more details.


 
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on April 30, 2018, 02:27:01 PM
Well, you have had at least two of us tell you that what you are doing is giving you incorrect answers.  I know that at least two of us have
many years of experience in electronics.  I have over 50 years experience myself.  You keep rejecting the advice we have offered so I can only
assume you are not really interested in learning.  I won't bother you anymore with suggestions for proper study and learning.

Good luck.  You are going to need it if you ever hope to actually learn anything.

Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on April 30, 2018, 04:19:24 PM
To citfta,
The multimeters which you consider as inapropriate, are allowed to errors of fraction of 1 volt what can be waved when measuring hundreds. I've actually measured with expensive DMM also, which has slightly smaller margin of errors - and found that differences are far unimportant.
Next will be paper issured by testing and validation program which I'll publish too...


Shall continue.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 06, 2018, 11:42:41 AM

5. Testing with loads.


In respond to numerous suggestions within various discussions - I release more information about testing of AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M.
The generator was tested with its four 450 ohms coils connected in single electrical circuit with multimeter and various loads, where circuits were measured to know values of total electrical resistance and AC voltage generating by 8 magnets rotor running by 16.2 watt drive motor switched on 1400 RPM.
Main article has been updated with new report:


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator


Video fo testing:


https://youtu.be/SzlJ6LDgQJ4



short video where AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M is being tested with 250 ohms thermoelectric resistor, and then video is paused and continue with testing of generator connected with 60 ohms electrical inductor, and paused and continue with testing of generator with no load connectet to circuit. During three tests multimeter display same >260 AC voltage what is obvious manifestation of expected Zero Magnetomotive Feedback and enexpectually discovered Hyperefficiency where output electric power is many time greater than mechanical input power of drive motor.
Shall continue...


By Taras Leskiv.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 07, 2018, 11:16:59 AM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

I would like you to do a test if you do not mind? See the attached picture I took from your video
to show how I think.

The upper part shows your Test 3 from the video when you show the generator output coil
has about the 450 Ohm wire resistance (well, 453 Ohm or so, no problem). 

In the lower picture I show you how I would like you to connect the thermoelectric resistor to the
generator output coil, I used two yellow lines as wire connections, ok?

If you do not mind to make a short, say 2 minute long video, please show first what Ohm value
your DMM shows in the same 2000 Ohm measurement range.  Then please do not change the resistor
connections but just switch the meter to AC 750 V range and start the drill motor and show what AC voltage
is coming out from the generator coil, ok?

In your Test 3 (at the end of the video) the AC voltmeter showed 260 V or so output voltage from the generator
and it would be very good to see the output voltage in this Test 4 I suggest you to do.

Thanks, Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 07, 2018, 04:59:26 PM
There are two reasons I'm posting here:
1. To learn about similar experiments and hopefully replications of similar constructions, at least such simle as I have discussed at the beginning of this post;
2.and the second reason is to learn oppinions and suggestions about testing, constructions and a theory of the processes.


About suggestion on the resistor: this one is recicled from immersion water heater which internal insulation is burned through hence one terminal is connected to resistor wire and other to the place of burn-through external cover. I new that readers will have chance to think that there is my mistake, but count that multimeter does not interpretate a load which can be a sweet drink, or silver bullet or even dead rat- multimeter is rationally doing measurement and dislaying resistance between its terminals - without interpretations. I did many similar measurements with other resistores and results are very similar-there is nothing like dramatic drop of voltage because that magnetic fields of coils of stator do not decelerate rotor and same rpm cause same freequency causing same voltage. Additionally saying- when resistance of thermoresistor is being measured then dc  current from multimeter flows from resistor causing its warming and proportional increase of electrical resistance, and ac current from generator does the same and after short measuring of ac current - measurements of resistance displays its higher values, this also can be filmend and taken into calculations (perhapse for educational or entertaining channels).


About ends of running of rotor: drill has button allowing to operate rpm from min. till max. Hence I try to push and release button gently for sake of protection of structures from mechanical overstressing, it also allow to tune rpms by watchin display of multimeter and holding button so that slower rotor will induce desirable voltage but during main phase of testing I hold button on max., some times I run rotor for 5, 10, 15 etc minutes but its too noizy and nothing special to be demonstrated on videos ( other then entertaining videos, perhaps).


Occationally I thank you Gyula, for previous comments and useful links which others can read too.
Hope that I have dissolved many doubts and others will roll up sleaves and look on shelfs for stuff which can be recicled for replication, there is nothing special and cheap multimeter will suffice.


Other wise keep asking, adviceing, suggestig, even teaching. Why not?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 07, 2018, 08:05:12 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

Thanks for the answers, I will comment them tomorrow or later on if you do not mind.

From your earlier videos one can see you have got two identical multimeters, their type is DT 830D
if I can see them correctly.

I would like you to do a measurement with them on each other.  Please set the range switch
on one of the DMMs to the 2000 kOhm position and measure the resistance between the COM
(black) input and the V-Ohm-mA (red) input on the other DMM which is set to AC 750V.
Then please swap the meters and do the same measurement on the input of the first DMM.

I can show you my test on such measurement, see the photo below. I have the same brand DMM
like you have, its type is M-830B and its specifications are most likely the same. You can see that
my bigger DMM, DT9205B measures 1.227 MegaOhm resistance (set to the 2 MegaOhm position) between
the inputs of the M-830B which I set to AC 600V position. I would assume your DT830D would have similar
resistance around the 1 MegaOhm values.
I checked my M-830B meter in DC 600V position too and it has 992 kOhm resistance.
(I can explain why the AC 600 V position is measured to have a higher resistance versus the DC 600 V if desired.)

Thanks
Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 07, 2018, 08:41:25 PM
I have three of those cheap testers, 've spend 10 EUR and have no fear to burn 'm if experiments go unpredictably bad.Have arranged testing and validation at Scientific Research Laboratory, later this month, hope they'll allow me to make some pictures and videos of testing for privat use and I'll upload more.


If you can explain your multimeters problem in more simple and direct manner, please?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 07, 2018, 09:01:31 PM
Okay on your having 3 such meters, very good.  And it is always good to know they are calibrated or
measure within  their tolarence range

In fact I have no problems with my or your multimeters, I would like to know the resistance your meters
have, how they differ from my M-830B type as I described  It would cost you only 2-3 minutes to check. 

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 08, 2018, 03:25:17 PM
Intersting, never though that multimeters can also test eachothers, I usually swap them during testing such assuring that results are not obtained by one which has went wrong just while before, also I have small electronic resistors with known resistance which I use sometimes for presissions control.


So, I was connecting blacks and reds together on three variants of pairs, when swiched on 2000 ohms its displaying just 1 and if swithed on 2000k then its oscilates for a second or two then displays steady 1 also, is it all right or I need to by 3 DMMs again for measuring of hundreds of ohms and hundreds of volts. I beleave that high fidelity DMMs are neccessary for microcircuits of electronics and in electromechanics some rough measurement are acceptable.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 08, 2018, 06:32:52 PM
Hi, thanks for trying to do the resistance measurements between the DMMs. 
Yes, the connections sound ok and please set one of your DMMs to the 2000 k position (not 2000 Ohm) and set the other DMM to AC 750 V position, ok?  I do not know why you see 1 on the display because I have only one such meter (M-830B) and not two.  With my other DMM shown in my yesterday picture I do not see any oscillations on the display when I check my M-830B. 
And I cannot test my other DMM with the M-830B because the latter is able to measure up to the 2000 kOhm value and the other DMM has 10 MegaOhm resistance in DC ranges.

I suggest you to try also the DC 1000V  or even say DC 200 mV positions on the 2nd DMM when the 1st DMM is in the 2000 k position.
Also, if you have a 3rd such DMM, then try to set it also to DC 1000 V and try to connect it in parallel with the 2nd DMM which is also in DC 1000 V position: what does then the 1st DMM show in its 2000 kOhm position. If the latter now displays other than 1 without much oscillations, then we may or still may not deduce something on the resistances.

EDIT: it just occured to me that if you have at hand any high value resistor like 1 MegaOhm or even several hundred kOhm, then you could connect it in parallel with the 2nd DMM set to DC 1000 V (or AC 750 V) and see what the 1st DMM displays. (you can check the high value resistor with any of the DMM in advance to know its exact value).

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 09, 2018, 06:21:28 AM
Guyulasun, please realise that you generate U-conversion of discution about


GENRERATORS OF ELECTRICITY
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator)


 into discution of multimeters,
and discusion about


METHODS OF GENERATION OF ELECTRICITY
https://youtu.be/oTgOJcxmjCw (https://youtu.be/oTgOJcxmjCw)


into discution of methods of measuring of Electricity.
I feel reluctance to this U-conversion and will produce resistance to such efforts.
 :) :D ;D
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 09, 2018, 02:06:53 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

Here is what you wrote 2 days ago, notice your 2nd point:

There are two reasons I'm posting here:
1. To learn about similar experiments and hopefully replications of similar constructions, at least
such simle as I have discussed at the beginning of this post;

2.and the second reason is to learn oppinions and suggestions about testing, constructions and
a theory of the processes.
.....
Otherwise keep asking, adviceing, suggestig, even teaching. Why not?

This means that what I suggest for you to measure the resistance of your meters is not off-topic at all
because it is exactly on about testing and learning not only about your setups but the meters you have.   
I find nothing wrong with how cheap or how expensive DMMs someone uses, I am not here to criticize
someones's meters.

Gyula

PS if you reduce your uploaded picture size to have a max of 900 to 950 pixels horizontally,
instead of the 2048 pixels you have above,  then we do not have to scroll horizontally
back and forth to read the posts.  You can find the Modify icon at the upper right side corner of your post above
and you can remove the high sized picture. Then use a picture editor (like Windows Paint) to resize your original
picture from 2048 x 1536 pixels to a lower size, with 900-950 max pixels horizontally instead of 2048.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 10, 2018, 02:22:16 PM



Many similar tests with various loads has produced the same result and on following picture generator is testing with certifyed 100 ohms / 500 watts immersion water heater where AC current causes increase of temperature of thermoelectric resistor where rising temperature causes increase of resistance of electric circuit.[/size]

[/size]
https://youtu.be/CeVwXykgaLI




above is link to short video where AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M is being tested with no load connectet to circuit, and then video is paused and continue with testing of generator connected with 5 ohms electrical inductor, and paused and continue with testing of generator with cold thermoelectric resistor with measured 77 ohms. During three tests multimeter display same approximately 260 AC voltage what is obvious manifestation of expected Zero Magnetomotive Feedback and unexpectually discovered Hyperefficiency where output electric power is many time greater than mechanical input power of drive motor.




Shall continue...






Updated 10 may of 2018 by Taras Leskiv
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: sparkmen on May 11, 2018, 10:38:03 PM
hi ageofmagn,
either intentionally or not, your measurment is not the proper one,
good job anyway
rgds
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 11, 2018, 11:01:36 PM
Sparkmen,
thanks for such brief and elogant expression of your mind,
now I know your attitude and have to guess what you actully mean.
Just read all previous discussions of measurements which went to be fullish and
do not repeat same suggestions for the second time.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: sparkmen on May 11, 2018, 11:29:06 PM
ageofmagnetizm,
not meant to offend, even if you connect 10kw load and measure voltage in series, you'll still have 260v...
will be nice to see what voltage come across any load, will give more info
rgds
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 11, 2018, 11:42:53 PM
A wise man listens to good advice.  A foolish man ignores it.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 12, 2018, 01:25:29 AM
Sparkman,
Please explain what you mean "across", have I tested along or in digonal,
and how do you calculate power?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: sparkmen on May 12, 2018, 02:22:29 AM
dear Taras, well...,  in this case calculating the power will be more confusing.
try a easier test, make some hot water with that boiling device.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 12, 2018, 08:20:11 AM
For those having "wishes" - I recomend to read the COMMUTATOR page of my website:


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/ageofmagnetizm-commutator


paragraphs 3. and 4.


And once saying that something is wrong, please specify why and what would be right instead,
Sparkmen, can not you explain proper methods of meassurement such as Gyulasun did, providing
the link to technical papers, such as citation:


{ See Figure 2 in this link http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/transformers.htm (http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/transformers.htm)[/font] where power measurement is explained in a mains transformer: an AC ampermeter is shown in series with load resistor R1 in the secondary coil too. Your generator output coil corresponds exactly to the secondary coil of this transformer when its output power is to be measured. But you will choose a known R1 load resistor so that you can use V2/R1 formula for output power by measuring only the AC voltage across R1.  }





Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: sparkmen on May 12, 2018, 02:07:02 PM
ageofmagntetzm, here is a good start for learning how to use mutlimeter
www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/references/how-to-use-a-multimeter#usingamultimeter
is not rocket sience ,
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 12, 2018, 04:29:33 PM
Also nice link, Sparkmen.
Although there is explanation for small DC battery and suggestion that
Resistance of lamp is much lower than resistance of multimeter causing
 that most of current must to flow through the lamp.


This does not exactly matches my AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M giving up
max 270 AC voltage at approx. 100 hertz when drive motor is switched on
Max 1400 RPM and accu is just fuuuly charged.


Though I foud one small LED 230 AC voltage and 50 herts and it has survived experiment
Producing usual white light so indicating that some current flows through it.
Although I had to tune pressure on switch button of drive so that RPM was some lower and
Multimeter was showing 190 to 230 AC voltage. Leads of multimeter and generator were
Simultanously connecting on terminals of the LED and resistance was measured before and after
Running rotor and meassuring AC voltage and showing almost same resistance that is measured
When multimeter is connected just to terminals of generator alone.


Wow, I does light, though lamp is just 1.1 watts max. Power,  - obviously that such results are inconclusive
And some lamp for at least 20 watts need to be found and survive weird freguency and shine...


Anyway, testing at Scientific Research Laboratory has been sheduled and I've seen there all kind of very cool looking
Equipment and smart looking guys, so that I have no doubts that they'll do measurements properly.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 14, 2018, 07:41:36 AM
Sparkmen,
once you consider that if multimeter is connected in single circuit
with generator and load - then measurements of AC voltage and resistance
are impropper for comprehension of Powers. While before, Gyulasun and many
others wher persuating me that inclussion of resistors in series will show the true Power
of loaded generator and will produces decelaration of rotor and much lover voltage.
This went to be unrelating to my design of coils on C-Cores and with loads voltage and
RPM is the same as without loads.


Your point is that loads need to be meassured with AC voltmeter connecting in parallel circuit,
I agree that all kinds of measurements are useful, but -
please explaine how do you count powers from so obtained results, on your link no mentions of such calculations.


For exzample: if measuremnts are taken with standard portable fuel generator of known
220 AC voltage being connected to standard 10 watt and tnen 30 watt lamps ,
and voltmeter connecting in paralel circuit shows 100 AC volts and then 10 AC volts.
How do you calculate Power of portable generator, plaese explain this and provide some link so that everybody
can understand why such methods are even beter...

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Belfior on May 14, 2018, 09:29:55 AM
Would it be possible to just rectify to DC and then use a DC load to check the power? I mean you get a voltage drop from the bridge, but then you have DC without any reactance or frequency bullshit, that might cause measurements to fail.

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20180513232810&SearchText=dc+load

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 14, 2018, 10:03:03 AM
Digital multimeters have rectifiers build inside,


But I was asking why meassuments in parallel circuits are better than
maesurment in series, and how one use parallel circuits to calculate power of standart
Generator.


Please post here no links advertizing for sale offers or donations seaking web sites.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 14, 2018, 08:05:11 PM
Sparkmen,
once you consider that if multimeter is connected in single circuit
with generator and load - then measurements of AC voltage and resistance
are impropper for comprehension of Powers. While before, Gyulasun and many
others wher persuating me that inclussion of resistors in series will show the true Power
of loaded generator and will produces decelaration of rotor and much lover voltage.
This went to be unrelating to my design of coils on C-Cores and with loads voltage and
RPM is the same as without loads.

Your point is that loads need to be meassured with AC voltmeter connecting in parallel circuit,
I agree that all kinds of measurements are useful, but -
please explaine how do you count powers from so obtained results, on your link no mentions of such calculations.

For exzample: if measuremnts are taken with standard portable fuel generator of known
220 AC voltage being connected to standard 10 watt and tnen 30 watt lamps ,
and voltmeter connecting in paralel circuit shows 100 AC volts and then 10 AC volts.
How do you calculate Power of portable generator, plaese explain this and provide some link so that everybody
can understand why such methods are even better...


Hi ageofmagnetizm,

I travelled abroad for a few days and went through your recent posts now. You asked a question this morning
from sparkmen, I put your text in bold to show what I mean but briefly it is: how you measure and or calculate
power consumed by a load when an AC voltmeter is in parallel with a load. 

To help you understand this: you need to have some background knowledge to arrive at a correct answer.

1) standard lamps with their rated 10W or 30W or whatever power should receive 220V AC to behave as a
10W or 30W (or whatever) load, otherwise their loading effect back to the generator will be much less. 
Be it either an incandescent or LED or other lamp, they change their current consumption nonlinearly when the
operating voltage differs from 220V.  This is why an AC Ampermeter is needed in series with such lamps to check
actual AC current taken by the lamp and also you would need to use an AC voltmeter across the lamp to see the
actual voltage feeding the lamp.  (I am aware your DMMs cannot measure AC current.)

2) you surely know why a standard 10W lamp may have only 100V AC across it when connected in parallel with a
220V AC generator output which showed the 220V AC output voltage before the lamp was connected? 
I think you know why this is so.
If not, then I can give you the explanation later on, question is whether you are going to disregard it or will
accept it. I say this because you wrote above that for your coils on C cores this is unrelated when you load them.

3) even if you measure the AC current with an Ampermeter in series with a load, you have to know whether the
measured AC voltage across the load is in phase or not with that measured AC current: if not, than you need to
estimate the phase angle, phi, somehow (say by a two channel oscilloscope) and  multiply the cosine value of this
angle by the measured RMS voltage and current values. The formula is well known in AC circuits: P=Vrms*Irms*cos(phi)
An incandescent lamp run at low frequencies like 50-60 or say at even 200 Hz will surely cause a negligible phase
shift between its own current and voltage so cos(0°)=1 i.e. its power factor is 1, you surely have heard about this.

So the point is: when you have less AC voltage feeding a bulb which was manufactured for 220V AC operation and
consumes its rated 10W or 30W (or whatever) power only when it is run from 220V AC, the only way to know how
many Watts it actually takes from a generator is to measure its current and feeding voltage in RMS and multiply the
two values. If the lamp is say a kind of fluorescense or say a LED, then the phase angle between the current and
voltage is to be measured too.

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 14, 2018, 08:15:54 PM
Digital multimeters have rectifiers build inside,

Correct.  But this has nothing to do with what member Belfior suggested above. 
Understand: he meant to use a full wave diode bridge across the output of the generator coil and the DC output
of the bridge is fed into a puffer capacitor and then your load is run from this DC voltage. This way the measurements
of DC current feeding the load and the DC voltage across the load can be measured with your DMMs because they can
measure DC current (but not AC current).  Measuring DC quantities gives results that are very very close to reality.

Quote
But I was asking why meassuments in parallel circuits are better than
maesurment in series, and how one use parallel circuits to calculate power of standart
Generator.
....

"Why meassuments in parallel circuits are better than measurment in series..."  I can answer this, this is point # 2 in
my above answer too.  I wonder whether you would make a short video on the parallel measurements?

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 14, 2018, 09:44:40 PM
Hi Gyula,
I have to point on the fact that all those methodes are exellent for knowing everything about
loads or lamps powered by generator but not generator itself...but knowing power of loads allows to assume that 10 watts lamp shines
because that generator gives 10 or more watts and doubtfully that shining 30 watts lamp means that that generator
is not weaker than 30 watts and so on even without multimetes connecting to circuits.


What would you say on that?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 14, 2018, 09:56:55 PM
Well, I would say that if you do the parallel measurement instead of the series, then you (we) would also know the generator power it actually produces while feeding the load.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 15, 2018, 08:48:12 AM
Gyulasun, the key word you've just produced : "also".


I've collected bunch of various loads from 5 to 100 watts (LEDs, incandecents, thermoelectric)
and 've meassured AC voltages and resistances using both discussed here methods
 and ' have calculated powers of all resistors and 've found that independetly from methods
- powers of resistors are same and matching powers given by manufacturers.


I see nothing amazing in it because that physical properties of objects are independable from
methods of meassuments - hence both methods are equally gooood,
same is fo calculation methods where AC voltage and resistance are sufficient for calculation of power
which is the same when its calculated from known current and resistance and/or current and voltage.


Amazing is how rational people change when they face something what simingly contradict to theirs beliefs,
or perhaps people change because that posting commercial links they earn several coints so to say...
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Belfior on May 15, 2018, 09:16:12 AM
Yes it is amazing how rational people can use AC multimeters to measure currents and voltages that are not 50 or 60 Hz and still think they are getting accurate measurements.

That is why I suggested going through a full bridge rectifier to a load and then do the measurements with a multimeter. DC is DC no matter what multimeter you have and there is no frequency to deviate the measurements.

You can go on for 6 months with this series&paraller dance that you have OR go through a full bridge rectifier and put an end to this
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 15, 2018, 09:31:31 AM
Belfior,


Rectifiers where discussed on the second page her and there two links to wikipedia explaining
rectifiers and rectifiers in DMMs, also count that DMM is build for meassuments of AC currents
Within 40 to 400 herts with allowed +/- 1% of presission.


And and here we've made one more page dedicated to obsessions round multimeters while no discussions
of generators.


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator



HYPEREFFICIENT AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M.
Construction and methods of utilization and results of testing of

the Axial Flux Permanent Magnets Generator of Magneto Mechanical Electro Inducting Rings .
Generator is made as experimental prototype and during various testing has
manifested hyperefficiency - converting energy so that output of electric energy is more than 1000%
of the input of mechanical energy
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Belfior on May 15, 2018, 11:53:59 AM
Belfior,


Rectifiers where discussed on the second page her and there two links to wikipedia explaining
rectifiers and rectifiers in DMMs, also count that DMM is build for meassuments of AC currents
Within 40 to 400 herts with allowed +/- 1% of presission.


And and here we've made one more page dedicated to obsessions round multimeters while no discussions
of generators.


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator



HYPEREFFICIENT AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M.
Construction and methods of utilization and results of testing of

the Axial Flux Permanent Magnets Generator of Magneto Mechanical Electro Inducting Rings .
Generator is made as experimental prototype and during various testing has
manifested hyperefficiency - converting energy so that output of electric energy is more than 1000%
of the input of mechanical energy

thx Age!
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 15, 2018, 12:22:00 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

From your posts it clearly comes that you consider a voltmeter as the load for your generator.

You seem to completely neglect the internal resistance of your voltmeter.  Your DMM has about
1 MegaOhm internal resistance in both DC and AC voltage measurement modes. And you connected
"bunch of various loads from 5 to 100 Watts"  in series with the 1 MOhm voltmeter and you claim
you have a super efficient generator.

This is what is "amazing". 

If you doubt your DMMs have about 1 MegaOhm internal resistance in voltmeter mode, then please take
them to the laboratory you earlier mentioned and have them checked.  Or see my notice in the PS at the bottom.

I measured my M-830B DMM with another DMM, see my earlier post here
http://overunity.com/17293/a3c-x-magnets-and-pmf/msg520991/#msg520991 (http://overunity.com/17293/a3c-x-magnets-and-pmf/msg520991/#msg520991)  but then you rejected my request
to check your DMMs for yourself as an off topic. 

All this means that you have not reported any correct load test on your generator you claim as hyper efficient
and you want us believe it by calculations, not by measurements.


I quote from your google site blog:

"Following is table of values of testing of AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M having drive motor turning generator on two different RPMs.

RPM           ohms      volts      watts
  400           448         82         15
1400           448       270       163   End of quote"

These Watt numbers are not the results of loaded measurements, you calculated them from the
DC resistance of the generator coils and the unloaded AC voltages your DMM showed when you
connected it in series with the load.   This way the 1 MOHm internal resistance of your DMM prevented
the direct connection of the load to the generator because it was in series with any load you intended to use.


Your loaded current was I=270V/1MOhm = 0.27 milliAmper when your RPM was 1400.

You have NOT proved by any correct measurements you have a hyper or super efficient generator,  unfortunately.

Gyula

PS here is a review of the DMM you have: https://www.petervis.com/meters/dt830d/dt830d.html (https://www.petervis.com/meters/dt830d/dt830d.html)
and here is the circuit diagram of the DT830D DMM you use and it can easily be figured out what value internal
resistors are used for the DC and AC voltmeter inputs to prevent any loading effects on any voltage source
you happen to measure:
https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/dt830x-multimeter-circuit-diagram.133113/#post-1112187 (https://www.electro-tech-online.com/threads/dt830x-multimeter-circuit-diagram.133113/#post-1112187)   

Of course it is normal that voltmeters have high value internal resistances, the cheaper DMMs have about
0.5 to 1 MegaOhm while the other types have about 5 to 10 MegaOhm, to prevent any loading on the measured voltage.


Gyulasun, the key word you've just produced : "also".


I've collected bunch of various loads from 5 to 100 watts (LEDs, incandecents, thermoelectric)
and 've meassured AC voltages and resistances using both discussed here methods
 and ' have calculated powers of all resistors and 've found that independetly from methods
- powers of resistors are same and matching powers given by manufacturers.


I see nothing amazing in it because that physical properties of objects are independable from
methods of meassuments - hence both methods are equally gooood,
same is fo calculation methods where AC voltage and resistance are sufficient for calculation of power
which is the same when its calculated from known current and resistance and/or current and voltage.


Amazing is how rational people change when they face something what simingly contradict to theirs beliefs,
or perhaps people change because that posting commercial links they earn several coints so to say...
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 15, 2018, 02:29:05 PM
Gyula, here on this forum is place just for your intersts:


http://overunity.com/problems-and-solutions-for-accurate-measurements/#.WvrPr05RU1I


Count that my claims are in patent offices and here I just share information,
without intentiontion persuate everybody, if nobody ask me about princeples of engineering,
Methods of increasing of output, processes implemented and processes which are validating, -
then its just OK, - I'll have more time to fulfill my duties insteed of chatting the same simple routines.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 15, 2018, 02:38:40 PM
ageofmagnetizm,

You have had at least three different people that have many years of experience try to explain to you why your method of measuring is wrong.  You still refuse to listen.  Why?  Why not just do the measurements that gyula has asked for?  Are you afraid your generator will fail the test?  I actually think your generator might have some interesting things going on with it, but there is no way of knowing if you refuse to use proper measurement procedures.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 15, 2018, 04:15:28 PM
Taras, it is one thing you have patent applications: it does not prove your generator is super efficient,
claims written in any patent applications are just words you type here on this forum or elsewhere.

I knew that you were again neglecting to give straight answers to relevant questions with respect to
your measurement issues. You write you had no intention to persuade anybody, you just share information.

Yet, your videos, your blogs, your posts at both forums report about your super efficient generator which
has this feature I quote from your blog:

"Mechanical 16.2 watts power input is being converted into 47, 89, 119 and finally 163 watts electrical output,
what means that energy conversion rate is approximately 1000%."  These were your data:

Number of coils              ohms        volts      watts
1                                     112            73           47
2                                     229          143           89
3                                     339          201         119
4                                     448          270         163

One thing is: you calculated the power from the appropiate generator coils DC resistance, R, and the unloaded AC output
voltage your DMM showed, by using this formula for the power:  P=V2/R     No real or meaningful load applied.

And there is another thing in the background I have not mentioned yet.  It is the DC resistance of the generator coils.

Let's say just as an example: the 163 W output power is taken out by a load from your generator coils, ok?
And suppose your DMM shows the 270 V AC output voltage, now just calculate the output current that is involved by
the alleged 163 W output power, ok?  Suppose for simplicity that this current is in phase with the voltage, then the
load current I=163W/270V=0.6 Amper. In case this current would indeed flow in your generator coils, it would cause
an internal voltage drop inside the coils as: V= 0.6 A*448 Ohm = 268.8 Volt. This would mean that if you would really
take out 0.6 Amper from your generator, the earlier (unloaded) output voltage of 270 V would quasi 'disappear'
(or at least significantly get reduced) from the load which was supposed to take out the 163 W from your generator.   

Of course, finally there is the question of input power: how it increases when you really load the generator coils by
the 47,  89,  119 and 163 W output power numbers. 

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 16, 2018, 09:02:41 AM
Gyulasun,


Your MEGAOHMHYPOTESIS has been easyly shattered by connection
of one 10 watt LED directly to generator, which normal light proves that
your megaohm calculations are 3.5 digits wrong.


Now, please take vacation from posting here untill next information will
be released, instead find place where your analitical talents are demanded.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: lancaIV on May 16, 2018, 01:05:20 PM
Hello ageofmagnetizm (Taras),
you are in the "patent application"-stage,
later for introducing the generator as industrial product you must your decice get technically tested to get the technical approval ,in Europe this are the professional institutions and certificating entities like TUEV and DEKRA !

The patent office approval to become your claims granted means to get commercial rights,
without technical certification these granted rights are worthless !

You think,by the used measure method and the tested and repeated results,to have a super-efficient electricity generating device :

                                                              " BRAVO ! "

                and super world-wide generator sellings are wished to you and all of us

  We are not in hurry and can still wait for the next stages of progress,hopefully positive !

Sincerely
             OCWL                     
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 16, 2018, 02:59:00 PM
ageofmagnetizm:

My "MegaOhm" calculations are not shattered because you used your DMM in series connection with a load,
you KNOW this! Your generator output remained unloaded in your video demonstrations, you KNOW this.

Now you try to offset this by a 10W LED you connect directly to the generator output: Nobody stated that
your generator is unable to drive a 10W load  directly  when the generator is driven
by a 16-17W motor as the prime mover.  HOW can you compare the two different cases: series and parallel??
Your videos so far showed your DMM (set in AC volt range) was hooked up in series with any load you used.

Of course you need to show correct input power measurements to your prime mover motor (input DC current and
voltage your DMMs are able to measure
),  to make sure the connection of the 10W LED to the generator output
would not increase the basic 16-17W input power of the drill motor.

If input power increases when you hook up the 10W LED (or say a 40W or 60W incandescent light bulb)
to the generator output, then efficiency should be considered with the measured input power, of course.

I understand you do not like my posts here.  A coin has two sides: I do not like being looked to be a fool
when you try to imply in your videos, blogs and posts you have 1000% 'hyper'efficient setup and you try to
"prove" it by incorrect measurements. 

Looking forward to your further activity.

Gyula




Gyulasun,
Your MEGAOHMHYPOTESIS has been easyly shattered by connection
of one 10 watt LED directly to generator, which normal light proves that
your megaohm calculations are 3.5 digits wrong.
Now, please take vacation from posting here untill next information will
be released, instead find place where your analitical talents are demanded.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 16, 2018, 03:11:58 PM
Gyulasun,
You only have to look somewereelse to post,
Otherwise I'll be forced to report your doings as malisious nonsens.


Whish you newer post here again, chao.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 16, 2018, 03:21:10 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

Looking forward to your further activity.

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 16, 2018, 04:14:31 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

NO ONE is going to take you seriously until you start to make proper measurements.  That is simply the way the world works.  Accusing Gyula of malicious posting will also guarantee that no one will take you seriously.  He has spent a considerable amount of time and effort trying to explain to you why your measurements are not telling you the truth about what you are doing.  Yet you still refuse to listen.  You claimed in an earlier post you wanted to learn, but that is obviously not the case.  I wish you luck but I don't know how to get you to understand you just don't know what you are doing.  That fact is perfectly clear to anyone that has worked in electronics for any length of time.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 17, 2018, 12:47:58 AM
Thanks Carroll. 

Hopefully he will show correct measurements,  and we may see how his generator performs.

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Belfior on May 17, 2018, 12:12:10 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

NO ONE is going to take you seriously until you start to make proper measurements.  That is simply the way the world works.  Accusing Gyula of malicious posting will also guarantee that no one will take you seriously.  He has spent a considerable amount of time and effort trying to explain to you why your measurements are not telling you the truth about what you are doing.  Yet you still refuse to listen.  You claimed in an earlier post you wanted to learn, but that is obviously not the case.  I wish you luck but I don't know how to get you to understand you just don't know what you are doing.  That fact is perfectly clear to anyone that has worked in electronics for any length of time.

Respectfully,
Carroll

The problem with OU researchers is that they will take any evidence that points to OU and the just boast they have it. What you should do is try to prove yourself wrong and when you can't find any contradictions anymore, then go to other people so they replicate your device. I myself got very exited about my Kunel replication, but then noticed the OU output is 60Hz. That is very peculiar thing to get from an output coil if the primary is getting 2.7kHz input...

Turns out my bench has 60V AC on it constantly. Chinese signal generator that is turned off had the wires on the bench. BNC connector's outer shell and actual ground has 60V AC between them, so the Chinese machine uses neutral as the ground. Pretty nasty thing to find out, but what can you expect since the power cable for the SG has no ground pin on it.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 18, 2018, 12:13:09 PM
Belfior,


Past 10 years I moderate here two discussions and reading many others,
Yet I' posted less than 10 comments on discussions moderated by others,
either because I do not take them seriously and spare my time, or my oppinion
wouldnot provide any support or constructive development.


Weird to see people spending ours dayly, made thousands of comments while
having not own business to care about or their business is not being taken seriously
and they spend life in malicious vanities.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Belfior on May 18, 2018, 01:52:21 PM
Belfior,


Past 10 years I moderate here two discussions and reading many others,
Yet I' posted less than 10 comments on discussions moderated by others,
either because I do not take them seriously and spare my time, or my oppinion
wouldnot provide any support or constructive development.


Weird to see people spending ours dayly, made thousands of comments while
having not own business to care about or their business is not being taken seriously
and they spend life in malicious vanities.

This is a forum. Forums are for discussion. Revelation comes from discussion.

This forum is also filled with crazy people, people who try to stop free energy, inventors trying to find something new and everything in between. This is the user demography on a public forum.

Few lunatics even post their stuff on multiple forums, so they could offend more people.

If I have offended you I am sorry. I can stop posting all together and concentrate on my business
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 18, 2018, 02:17:40 PM
Belfior,
Actually, I'm OK with you, responding to your post (not ignoring as posts of citfta),
I have not put you on "buddy lists"and do not report you as troll ( what I did to gyula),


Yo was persisting on rectifiers and I think that owners of digital multimeters read manuals and
know that rectifiers are buld inside of modern DMMs.


So far for now.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: e2matrix on May 18, 2018, 06:30:37 PM
ageofmagnetism,   gyulasun (http://overunity.com/profile/gyulasun.173/) happens to be one of the most knowledgeable, helpful and respected members of this forum.  If you treat him the way you have people are only going to laugh at you knowing you are simply full of nonsense.   
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: itsu on May 18, 2018, 06:43:47 PM

I could not agree more.
Itsu
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 18, 2018, 08:00:15 PM
I love english saying:


"We pay no hids for a wigs".


And everybody have to understand that as moderator
I have responsibilities which comes with enforcement gears
which I've deployed for the first time here, and if there are any
parties, groups or bands of interests - then they shoud enjoy own
discussions and let others enjoy theirs.


Is not it natural among gentelmens?

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 18, 2018, 08:03:50 PM
I also agree completely.  Refusing help from gyulasum is like telling a brain surgeon you know more than he does about the brain when you are still in kindergarten.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 18, 2018, 08:15:07 PM
I love english saying:


"We pay no hids for a wigs".


And everybody have to understand that as moderator
I have responsibilities which comes with enforcement gears
which I've deployed for the first time here, and if there are any
parties, groups or bands of interests - then they shoud enjoy own
discussions and let others enjoy theirs.


Is not it natural among gentelmens?

What you obviously don't get is that Gyula had no obligation to try and help you.  He tried to help because he is a gentleman and a scholar and wanted to give you some useful advice.  Those of us that really care about this hobby and pursuit of  free energy want to see others succeed also.  So we try to help when we can.  But there are always those that refuse help because they insist they know more than others.  Most of us on this forum actually appreciate help from others.  I have over 50 years experience in electronics but I am still willing to listen to others because NONE of us know everything.

Now go ahead and use your moderator privileges you claim you have and delete my post.  I'll bet you can't.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 18, 2018, 09:20:44 PM
The last trying to help was 28 of april on the first page here:


"IT is very probable that a useful load when you connect it across the output coil will impose a drag on your drill, making it draw higher current from its own 10.8V Li-Ion battery hence input power would increase."

When I released videos of testing with loads then following five pages where intentionally produced psevdo-discussions
about simple matters disabling to discuss generators but dragging into chaos. That what people call: trolling.

Anyway, stop helping where you ra not welkom and start to do it where you are wanted.
That is so simple.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: sparkmen on May 18, 2018, 11:26:06 PM
dear ageofmanetzm,
calling trolls the people that wants to help or need  to see proper measurment doen not make your device work better.
horse blinds are keept for a reason, you may keep yours
rgds,
mb
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 18, 2018, 11:49:05 PM
ageofmagnetizm:

Just go and report me, here is the next "harassment", LOL: 

In your blog, you wrote about "load" tests, I quote: "Many similar tests with various loads has produced
the same result and on following picture generator is testing with certifyed 100 ohms / 500 watts immersion
water heater where AC current causes increase of temperature of thermoelectric resistor where rising
temperature causes increase of resistance of electric circuit."
I took a snapshot at video time 2:35 from your revelant short video you referred to in connection with
the immersion water heater above. It is ok that you wrote 100 Ohm for the heater resistance and the
DMM resistance meter measured it as 80 Ohm in the video, this is not a problem. Your picture at the bottom
of your blog shows 534 Ohm and if we substract from 534 the 448 Ohm coil DC resistance, we get 86 Ohm for
the heater resistance. Again, the 80 and 86 or just the 77 Ohm as you mentioned at the bottom of the blog
for the heater is not a problem. It is also ok that such immersion water heater may change its resistance
a few percent from its cold resistance when it is performing real work by boiling up water to 100 degree Celsius.
The problem is that you imply you did load tests with such immersion water heater when your video clearly shows
the heater (with its points A and B) is connected via the DMM (that has B and C) to the generator coils output (A and C)
i.e. the DMM is set to AC Volt position and in this position the internal resistance of the DMM is about 1 MegaOhm. 
You closed the circuit between the generator output and the heater with the 1 MegaOhm internal resisance of your
DMM when set to AC Volt position.
Please answer this question: How can the heater boil up any single drop of water when you feed it
via a 1 MegaOhm voltmeter?  What current do you think can flow via the voltmeter's internal resistance?
If you connect the heater to the 230V mains voltage, the current draw would be 500W/230V=2.17 Amper
if I consider the heater to be a 500W heater, manufactured as such.
If you connect your heater via the voltmeter, the dissipated power in the heater is about in the microwatt range.

Now I repeat: go and report me for harassing you. 
It is YOU who harass readers here with bad science and not willing to show correct measurements.
You do not welcome members here who ask revealing questions that you carefully avoid answering.  Why is that? 

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 09:06:20 AM
Trolls have been reported five days ago and are on watchlists of NSA AIs which
have traced them down to nods and watching all theirs contacts, frequency of posts,
filming them on local CVRs and collecting information about theirs troll factories.


That how it works in contemporary reality.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 19, 2018, 10:38:29 AM

Trolls making false and misleading measurements have been reported five days ago and
are on watchlists of NSA AIs which have traced them down to nods and watching all theirs contacts,
frequency of posts, filming them on local CVRs and collecting information about theirs troll factories.

That how it works in contemporary reality.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 11:39:02 AM
AIs read no words but numbers and frequencies,
noticing roots and connections, and can not be misled by
Megaohm-hipotesis and chorus of several worshipers.


AIs have not own buiseness hence they just running same routine
again and again, just like trolls do.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 19, 2018, 11:58:35 AM

...
AIs have not own buiseness hence they just running same routine
again and again, just like trolls do.



Exactly,  just look at yourself in the mirror.  Or better yet, show correct measurements.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ramset on May 19, 2018, 12:12:25 PM
  ageofmagnetizm (http://overunity.com/profile/ageofmagnetizm.8836/)
Sir
You will not find a sympathetic ear for bad measurement practices in Stefan, he has been around long enuff to recognize simple errors and he also does experiments.

Gyula is one of the most kind and honest technicians  we have at this forum, I have honestly never seen him treated this poorly ,actually I don't believe I have ever seen anything but appreciation for his time and efforts here .




The scientific method is to run Towards scrutiny ,not away.



Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 12:17:42 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter


Modern multimeters are often digital due to their accuracy, durability and extra features. In a digital multimeter the signal under test is converted to a voltage and an amplifier with electronically controlled gain preconditions the signal. A digital multimeter displays the quantity measured as a number, which eliminate errors. Modern digital multimeters may have an embedded computer, which provides a wealth of convenience features.

Meaningful (i.e., high-accuracy) measurements require a good understanding of the instrument specifications, good control of the measurement conditions, and traceability of the calibration of the instrument. However, even if its resolution exceeds the accuracy, a meter can be useful for comparing measurements. For example, a meter reading 5½ stable digits may indicate that one nominally 100,000 ohm resistor is about 7 ohms greater than another, although the error of each measurement is 0.2% of reading plus 0.05% of full-scale value.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 19, 2018, 12:30:07 PM
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter)


Modern multimeters are often digital due to their accuracy, durability and extra features. In a digital multimeter the signal under test is converted to a voltage and an amplifier with electronically controlled gain preconditions the signal. A digital multimeter displays the quantity measured as a number, which eliminates[/font][/size] [/font][/size]parallax (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallax)[/size][/color] [/font][/size]errors.[/font][/size]Modern digital multimeters may have an embedded computer (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embedded_system), which provides a wealth of convenience features. [/size][/color]

[/size][/color]
Meaningful (i.e., high-accuracy) measurements require a good understanding of the instrument specifications, good control of the measurement conditions, and traceability of the calibration of the instrument. However, even if its resolution exceeds the accuracy (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accuracy_and_precision), a meter can be useful for comparing measurements. For example, a meter reading 5½ stable digits may indicate that one nominally 100,000 ohm resistor is about 7 ohms greater than another, although the error of each measurement is 0.2% of reading plus 0.05% of full-scale value.[/size][/color]

And the high-lighted part is what several of us have been trying to get you to understand.  You are NOT using the test equipment the way it was designed to be used.  So your test results mean nothing.  It is as simple as that.

And posting false claims about reporting posters to authorities and having moderator status also does your credibility serious damage.  All of those actions are childish and we have been here long enough to know they are false.



Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 19, 2018, 12:44:57 PM
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

From the same wiki link you provided,  read this and understand:

"General properties of multimeters:

Any meter will load the circuit under test to some extent. For example, a multimeter using a
moving coil movement with full-scale deflection current of 50 microamps, the highest sensitivity
commonly available, must draw at least 50 microamps from the circuit under test for the meter
to reach the top end of its scale. This may load a high-impedance circuit so much as to affect the circuit,
thereby giving a low reading. The full-scale deflection current may also be expressed in terms of
"ohms per volt". The ohms per volt figure is often called the "sensitivity" of the instrument.
Thus a meter with a 50 microampere movement will have a "sensitivity" of 20,000 ohms per volt.
"Per volt" refers to the fact that the impedance the meter presents to the circuit under test will be
20,000 ohms multiplied by the full-scale voltage to which the meter is set.
For example, if the meter is set to a range of 300 volts full scale, the meter's impedance will be 6 megohms.
20,000 ohms per volt is the best (highest) sensitivity available for typical analog multimeters that lack
internal amplifiers.  For meters that do have internal amplifiers (VTVMs, FETVMs, etc.),
the input impedance is fixed by the amplifier circuit."


Your DMM do have internal amplifiers the text you quoted is correct.  I gave 2 links in my Reply #57 where your DMM is demonstrated and its internal circuits schematics is shown:http://overunity.com/17293/a3c-x-magnets-and-pmf/msg521254/#msg521254 (http://overunity.com/17293/a3c-x-magnets-and-pmf/msg521254/#msg521254) Its internal resistor divider chain insures the high input resistance from at least
480 kOhm to the 980 kOhm range, anyone can see it without turning to Artificial Intelligence.

Gyula

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter)
Modern multimeters are often digital due to their accuracy, durability and extra features. In a digital multimeter the signal under test is converted to a voltage and an amplifier with electronically controlled gain preconditions the signal. A digital multimeter displays the quantity measured as a number, which eliminate errors. Modern digital multimeters may have an embedded computer, which provides a wealth of convenience features.

Meaningful (i.e., high-accuracy) measurements require a good understanding of the instrument specifications, good control of the measurement conditions, and traceability of the calibration of the instrument. However, even if its resolution exceeds the accuracy, a meter can be useful for comparing measurements. For example, a meter reading 5½ stable digits may indicate that one nominally 100,000 ohm resistor is about 7 ohms greater than another, although the error of each measurement is 0.2% of reading plus 0.05% of full-scale value.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 01:37:40 PM
My gash.


Who's care about internal circuits shematics, simply launching
COMPASS App on smarthone and it shows where North is,
or launching HORIZONT App and it shows which corner of table
is too high, same is with DMM - millions of people simply follows
manuals and read true values displayed, no need to hypotyze how it
works because it is designed with:

an embedded computer, which provides a wealth of convenience features[/size]
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 19, 2018, 01:55:09 PM
My gash.


Who's care about internal circuits shematics, simply launching
COMPASS App on smarthone and it shows where North is,
or launching HORIZONT App and it shows which corner of table
is too high, same is with DMM - millions of people simply follows
manuals and read true values displayed, no need to hypotyze how it
works because it is designed with:
an embedded computer, which provides a wealth of convenience features[/size]

And that is the problem with your testing!  You apparently have NOT read the manual and do NOT understand how to use the test equipment.  And YOU were the one that brought up all the information about the internal workings of the MM when I first told you that cheap ones are not really that accurate.  Your reply was they had a small electronics circuit in them which actually has nothing to do with the accuracy.  They still have to be calibrated correctly.  And my own testing has shown they are SOMETIMES not calibrated that closely to a high quality meter.


Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 02:04:48 PM
Guys,


Why dont you file complain to consummers commission explaining that
manufacturers of DMMs are misleeding whole world, or discuss stuff on wikipedia or
bring your multimeters problems to numerous topics dedicated to such discussion,
or simply take care about own topics which you've abandoned by posting just here.


How many times one need to be asked to do the same.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 19, 2018, 02:15:28 PM
ageofmagnetizm,

It is you who try to mislead gullible people with your improper use of a measuring instrument.

How many times you need to be asked to do correct measurements?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 19, 2018, 02:51:18 PM
Guys,


Why dont you file complain to consummers commission explaining that
manufacturers of DMMs are misleeding whole world, or discuss stuff on wikipedia or
bring your multimeters problems to numerous topics dedicated to such discussion,
or simply take care about own topics which you've abandoned by posting just here.


How many times one need to be asked to do the same.

The only one with multimeter problems is YOU.  You are like a person that can tell you a car has an engine in it but doesn't know the difference between the brake pedal and the accelerator.

Now you can either do proper measurements so we can see if you really have something worth looking at or you can continue your foolishness which about 8 or 9 other people now have told you is WRONG.  But no one is going to accept any of your claims until you do PROPER measurements.  In case you haven't noticed NO ONE is agreeing with you.  That should tell you something.  It most certainly does NOT mean you are the only one correctly measuring your device.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 03:05:10 PM
Guys,


I've checked stats of your post, last two weeks you post ONLY here
 and on no other topic of this forum, your collegs and worshippers are missing you.


CITFTA AND GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE
FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.


How else should I say it, can not you sleap without posting here.



CITFTA AND GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE
FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 19, 2018, 03:15:11 PM


I will gladly stop posting here when you make proper measurements and stop harassing those that have tried to help you.  Or you can leave and then I will stop posting here.  Your choice.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 19, 2018, 03:20:11 PM

I've checked stats of your post, last two weeks you post ONLY here
 
ageofmagnetizm,
Sorry but you are wrong again, just like with your load test measurements. 

See my post here 2 days ago in a different thread:

http://overunity.com/17724/exciting-a-resonant-tank-with-pulsed-dc-help/msg521301/#msg521301
I continue posting anywhere in this forum when and where I want, it would never ever depend on you.

When will you show correct load test on your generator?

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 03:34:20 PM
CITFTA AND GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HEREFOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 19, 2018, 03:46:11 PM

Sorry ageofmagnetizm, if you have the right to present incorrect output load measurement and this way
you mislead people, then I or anyone else also have the right to point out your measurement mistakes, right on spot, right?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 04:37:37 PM
CITFTA AND GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 19, 2018, 05:58:40 PM
WHY are you refusing to make proper measurements?  If you really have some great device then you should want to prove it by making proper measurements.  If you don't know how to make those measurements either Gyula or myself would be very willing to show you how to do that.  You can even do it with the meters you already have without having to invest in anything better.  You only need to measure the current going through your test load and the voltage being applied to that test load to determine how much power your generator is producing.  It is not that hard to do it right.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 06:19:21 PM
CITFTA AND GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE!
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 19, 2018, 06:36:35 PM
As I said, I will STOP posting here when you do PROPER measurements.  Or when you go away, which ever comes first.  Your choice.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 19, 2018, 11:41:46 PM
Hmmm,


Sounds like paranoya,
Instead of mailing me meaningfull and competitive proposals,
you "demand" ...or even "command" me counting that somebody
will fear your ... what... persistend trolling, or what else can you do,
just tell me more thing to scare, because that posting here will gain you
just shame.

Let we do other approach, you two guys please post here links to your own discussions
and everybobody will know where to learn about your recent uploads of your achievents,

Otherwise:

CITFTA AND GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 20, 2018, 12:11:38 AM
ageofmagnetizm:

you wrote to me in Reply #61:
"Your MEGAOHMHYPOTESIS has been easyly shattered by connection
of one 10 watt LED directly to generator, which normal light proves that
your megaohm calculations are 3.5 digits wrong."

From your wikipedia link you yourself posted, read this again (this time do not wear horse blinders):

"For example, if the meter is set to a range of 300 volts full scale, the meter's impedance will be 6 megaohms.
20,000 ohms per volt is the best (highest) sensitivity available for typical analog multimeters that lack
internal amplifiers.  For meters that do have internal amplifiers (VTVMs, FETVMs, etc.),
the input impedance is fixed by the amplifier circuit.
"

So who is afraid of connecting a voltmeter in parallel with the load at the generator output?
Where is the LED load test he mentioned?

Hmmm

It is ageofmagnetizm. He does not dare to show such load test correctly because it would turn out
his generator has no hyper or super efficiency at all. But his ego issues cannot bear such shame...  LOL


Hmmm,


Sounds like paranoya,
Instead of mailing me meaningfull and competitive proposals,
you "demand" ...or even "command" me counting that somebody
will fear your ... what... persistend trolling, or what else can you do,
just tell me more thing to scare, because that posting here will gain you
just shame.

Let we do other approach, you two guys please post here links to your own discussions
and everybobody will know where to learn about your recent uploads of your achievents,

Otherwise:

CITFTA AND GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 20, 2018, 01:36:32 AM
OK ageofmagnetizm.

  Here is a link to a whole thread I started to help those that were confused about which way the current went during inductive kickback or more accurately called inductive discharge.  You can easily see in that thread there were some people that really did want to learn and others like yourself that only wanted to insist they were right in spite of the evidence they were clearly wrong.

http://overunity.com/16203/inductive-kickback/#.WwCyJvUh3IU

And here is a link from another forum where I started a thread for open discussion about projects on that forum.  You can even find some people on there that were originally against some of the things I posted but then came to realize I was correct.  I am of course not always correct so I am perfectly willing to listen to other opinions and try to learn from other people.

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/11933-open-discussion-projects-forum.html

Now the question is, are you willing to learn or are you going to continue to insist you are the only one that is right even though many others have told you that you are wrong?


Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 20, 2018, 03:13:46 AM
Citfta,
thanks for your links which I might read next week,
because all your postings before were such meaningles that
i thought that you only know round 300 words in english.


Here is one of my credentials:


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics


Everyone can scroll it down and up and compare it with credencials of citfta,
and there no mugs or books for sale and no adds , and no buttons praying for
donations, only protected rights, so to say, no offers or downloads no links to any
of just listed.


Now Gyula, plaese, show your credencials to understand what makes you think
Yourself a teacher of me, because that last two weaks I had to explain you
rectifiers in mutimeters
after what your try to teach me construction of internal circuits of DMM,
 how can take serious such a teacher, let show your credential and next week ....
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 20, 2018, 09:27:15 AM
Very nice Carroll,


I still need to find time to read through you work which appears
 to be matching my interests, but from the very entry point of learning
it is clear that you are real user contributing to both of ours communities.


Understanding of profile page of users help AIs to indentify suspicious troll,
because that trolls do not care about profile and quilkly mokking one, usually
copying profile of other users with several changed letters,
and they never develop own profile instead just crawling and trolling.


Carroll, I have cleared youd buddy status and expect you constructive contribution
to this disscussion, only please - speak for yourself because if you blame me
 on behalf of somebody then it can happen that I ignore you comments because that other
person is already labelled as "ignore it" and I do not spend time for reading both posts.


I still wayting for credetials of Gyulasun and untill then his status remains same suspicious.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 20, 2018, 10:58:36 AM
ageofmagnetizm,

Your 'credentials' were immediately defined the moment you demonstrated your using a voltmeter
in series with a load and not in parallel with it. Of course, you do not have to know the internal circuits
of a voltmeter but how to use a voltmeter is a basic knowledge if somebody wants to prove something,
especially when his claim is having a 1000% efficient generator. You pretend not to know about internal
resistance of a voltmeter but what is worse: you grasp for everything not to demonstrate
a correct load test for your generator.
My credentials? Just look up any of my posts say last year, 2 or 3 or any more years of my earlier posts.
I certainly do not have such blog pages you are showing but let me ask: what good is there without proving
the fancy claims?


You have a nice mechanical rotary setup and the principle you show certainly works, it is able to convert
mechanical work into electricity.  However, you have still not proved the "hyperefficiency" of that setup,
you have not showed any correct load tests.

You have measured DC resistances of generator coils and DC resistances of some loads and also measured
the UNLOADED output AC voltage and then you calculated the output power numbers by using P=V2/R   
You base your output efficiency claims on such calculations, not on correct input and output power measurements.

This is what turns out from any of your blog pages where you include efficiency numbers.

It is ok you do not believe me but I am not the only one objecting your measurements.You have placed yourself into a rabbit hole you yourself dig for yourself and now you are asking for others credentials?   LOL

The only way you can climb out of the hole is to show correct load test to prove your 1000% efficiency claim.

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 20, 2018, 12:45:15 PM
Ageofmagnetizm,

I looked at your page you linked to.  You have some interesting designs for your generators.  BUT THEY MEAN NOTHING WITHOUT PROPER MEASUREMENTS!!!

You have wasted several pages of this thread and lots of time doing everything to avoid taking proper measurements.  In order to know if a generator is efficient we have to know two things.  We have to know the input power to whatever kind of device is turning or powering the generator.  And we have to know what the power is that the generator is putting out.  With those two pieces of information we then calculate the coefficiency of performance or commonly called the COP.

In electrical use power is calculated by multiplying the current times the voltage which give us watts.  You have not done any measurements that give us the voltage and current being supplied to your load.  So we can't calculate the power coming from your generator.  We also need to know the power going into your generator and I don't believe you have shown that either.

As I posted several pages ago, you may have a very efficient generator.  I am NOT saying you don't.  What Gyula and myself and others have said is there is no way to know because you keep refusing to take proper measurements of what you do have.  If those measurements prove what you claim then you will surely get the recognition you apparently are so desperately seeking.

Asking for any further credentials from Gyula is an insult to him and those of us that respect him.  His credentials should have already been clear to you when several other members of this forum told you how much he is respected.  If you went to a local doctor that was highly respected by the other members of your community would you ask him for his credentials?  That is both insulting and shows a real lack of good judgement.

Please just take the proper measurements so we can see what you really have.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 20, 2018, 01:21:02 PM
Carroll,


Inputs are taken from information provided by manufacturer of drive as follow:


Accu marking and manuals say 10.8 volts 1.5 ahmpers and 16.2 watts maximuums,
and shaft 15 N/m max.


Voltage and resistance are displayed on DMM and one can interpreting them as wishs.


Videos were releasing to produce increasing pressure on potential partners which were
targeted by personal emails (not on forums), once targeted objective are achieved then there
no need to release valuable information and betrade trust of partners.


Hence I have neither reazons no right to release anything else other than sheduled by ongoing R&D,
Hence I only can discuss what is already published and can not discuss what will be published later.


Before this discussion was interrupted for two weaks, - on many discussions were suggested
that if loads will be connected to generator than currents of stator wil induce magnetic fields deccelerating
magnets of rotor hence applayed drive will be slowing RPM because of insufficient power input.
Videos showing testing with different loads have produced sufficient prove of conception on
doesends of dicussions except here...


If gyulasun refuses to provide his credentials personally than his status remains unchanged
and I shall ingnore his posts as I ignor adds surrounding posts which are valid, hence:


 GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.[/size]
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 20, 2018, 03:07:29 PM
Well, after five pages of nothing but blabber it should be quite obvious that ageofmagnetizm has nothing worth looking at.  He has made every excuse under the sun for not making proper measurements of his device.  The only logical conclusion is that he knows his device is nothing special but still hopes to convince those that don't know any better that he does have something special.

Ageofmagnetizm, you might as well move on to another forum because you are done here.  Every time you post your foolishness and attacks against well respected members of this forum I WILL post a correction to your false claims and attacks.  I don't know how much the oil companies are paying you for your false claims but I will continue to expose them as false each time you post them.  Your attempts to mislead others will not work here.

Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 20, 2018, 04:49:38 PM
I am actually prepairing to move on my R&D and vaction,
and this discussion will be suspended and comments will be disabled.


If somebody still want to through chairs, chanting same loud slogans,
than do not restrain yourself, post everything what you fill.


I'll simply ignore radicalized minds.
Go on enjoy filling yourself important.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 20, 2018, 08:52:22 PM
Farewell to ageofmagnetizm:

Taras, after reading your reply (quoted below),  it immediately became crystal clear you have nothing special
but a salad of words, deceptive blog pages and videos and your generator surely has less than 100% efficiency.

Hopefully this thread will serve for the benefit of any honest but technically not very well educated readers here,
either members or occasional lurkers that they should keep away from the generator this guy ageofmagnetizm
may come up with again in the near or remote feature.

He demonstrated very well how a voltmeter should NOT be used when doing a load test at the output of a
generator: he connected the voltmeter, a DMM in series with the load.

Just imagine how small AC current was able to flow in the otherwise 500-600 W load when the high internal resistance
of the voltmeter in series with the load effectively reduced any current flow to as low as some nano or microAmper.

Yet he claimed his generator has a hyper efficiency of 1000%.  LOL   
His blog pages, his videos attempt to make you believe the load really loads the generator output but in fact it was
quasi isolated by the voltmeter's high internal resistance.  LOL 

Bye-bye Taras, bye-bye!



Carroll,
Inputs are taken from information provided by manufacturer of drive as follow:
Accu marking and manuals say 10.8 volts 1.5 ahmpers and 16.2 watts maximuums,
and shaft 15 N/m max.
Voltage and resistance are displayed on DMM and one can interpreting them as wishs.
Videos were releasing to produce increasing pressure on potential partners which were
targeted by personal emails (not on forums), once targeted objective are achieved then there
no need to release valuable information and betrade trust of partners.
Hence I have neither reazons no right to release anything else other than sheduled by ongoing R&D,
Hence I only can discuss what is already published and can not discuss what will be published later.
Before this discussion was interrupted for two weaks, - on many discussions were suggested
that if loads will be connected to generator than currents of stator wil induce magnetic fields deccelerating
magnets of rotor hence applayed drive will be slowing RPM because of insufficient power input.
Videos showing testing with different loads have produced sufficient prove of conception on
doesends of dicussions except here...
If gyulasun refuses to provide his credentials personally than his status remains unchanged
and I shall ingnore his posts as I ignor adds surrounding posts which are valid, hence:
 GYULASUN -- PLEASE STOP POSTING HERE FOREVER. NEVER POST HERE.[/size]
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 21, 2018, 12:36:02 AM
https://m.youtube.com/user/gyulasun/feed


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5ApYxkU-U



Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 21, 2018, 01:32:16 AM
ageofmagnetizm:
I knew you would love me ...    8)
I like Pink Floyd by the way.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 21, 2018, 02:07:59 AM
Screen shorts are evidences, as many other things are.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 21, 2018, 02:14:10 AM
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UC1k4jDd_NEQr2Gi5vms-_zQ


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KEKX9iBjWh8&list=LL1k4jDd_NEQr2Gi5vms-_zQ&index=2&t=0s


So ...credencialless teacher, why have you stop teaching...can not find words anymore?
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 21, 2018, 09:44:12 AM
Do you see Gyulasun, how scientific methods works:


By obtaining sets of numbers and forming two or more sets which can
be compared mathemathically. When I place your and my numbers in rows:


gylasun                     5 years       3500 posts        00000 reported experiments        1 subscriber
ageofmagnetizm     9 years           80 posts               34  reported experiments     19 subscribers


then it is so obviously easy two compare to sets and produces one or several obvious conclussions,
lets other members do the maths and conclussions, I only obtain values to form sets to compare.


https://m.youtube.com/user/gyulasun/videos
https://m.youtube.com/user/ageofmagnetizm/videos


Shall continue...
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 21, 2018, 10:49:43 AM
Now........Hmmmmm...... a-haa...... here the numbers for
the second hyperactive member continuously and shamelessly
Intruding and interrupting this discussion so creating chaos to disable
Possibility of civilized conversations between members...


Videoreports of the second intruder:


https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCoofWrl80jNYPJhkjjcTz7A/feed (https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCoofWrl80jNYPJhkjjcTz7A/feed)


gylasun                     5 years       3500 posts        00000 reported experiments        1 subscriber
citfta jr                       5 years         635 posts                 3 reported experiments        7 subscribers


Now both intruders are being integrated into statistical intruder by simple integrals:


Sample intruder       5 years        2075 posts             1.5 reporded experiments       4 subscribers


Hmmmm.....clearly that both intruders have similar statss causing similar motivation for attacking
users which stats are UNBELIVABLY differen, in such attacks they try to hypercompensate....
No... wait .... I should not to produce conclussions, instead acting as AIs, purelly collecting datas
so facilitating easy and swift and convenient participations of real users of this forum....


I had no slightest intention to create mess on this discussion but if intruders can not sleep without
Mees, then OK. Let mess be...


Shall continiue.....











Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 21, 2018, 11:28:12 AM
All of which goes to prove the old saying "garbage in equals garbage out".  And also again proves you have no idea how to interpret data.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 21, 2018, 12:58:04 PM
ageofmagnetizm,

No I am not speechless and did not stop teaching, find my words below.

Just briefly:  I am a retired video service and maintenance engineer with 37 years of experience in electronic circuits. I do not need to prove my credentials to you or anyone else: only what I write or comment that is what counts here.  I have received several "Thanks for your help" openly in members posts during the years here.

You can make many experiments, videos: if your measuring methods are wrong, your conclusions are wrong.

The big difference between you and me is: if my collegaues at work or friends explained a measuring mistake I had made I accepted and learned from it not to make it again. You do not accept if your mistake is exposed and continue driving your 1000% efficient generator agenda.

Just one example any readers here can understand: 

you wrote your insertion water heater has about 100 Ohm resistance and 500 W power. 
If you connect it across the 230 V AC mains it would draw 230 V/100 Ohm = 2.3 Amper, right?
(Let's neglect any resistance change due to the heat, it is not significant.) 
If the AC mains had 260 V, then the current draw would be 2.6 Amper.
When you connect this heater directly across your 260 V generator output, you do not show two things.

One is: how low the 260V output voltage drops to because of your 4 generator coils are in series connection and together they have 448 Ohm DC resistance as you measured.

The second is that the moment you connect the heater directly across your generator output the RPM of your motor will drop from the unloaded 1400 to a lower RPM. This means the 260V AC output voltage (which was the unloaded output voltage) will also drop  (lower rotor speed induces less EMF in the coils).

From the 448 Ohm internal coil resistance it comes that the heater cannot draw 2.6 Amper (even if the 260 VAC output would still be maintained) just because its 100 Ohm resistance is added to the 448 Ohm coil resistance: the current would be 260 V / (448+100) Ohm = 0.47 amper.
Heat dissipation in the heater would be 0.472 A * 100 Ohm = 22 Watts and
Heat dissipation in the generator coils would be 0.472  A* 448 Ohm= 98.9 Watts.
Readers here can now answer this question: Is this a hyper efficient generator? 

(The reduced RPM makes the wanted and unwanted dissipations less than the ones above because the 260 V EMF induced in the coils will also be less.)

There is a 3rd thing what ageofmagnetizm does not want to consider: how the input power to the driving motor increases when the heater is hooked up directly to the generator output. The motor is an off the shelf drill motor and there is nothing in it which would prevent the increase of its input power draw when its shaft is loaded (normal Lenz law is in full action). This is why ageofmagnetizm does not show any input power measurements: he simply declares this I quote from him:

"Accu marking and manuals say 10.8 volts 1.5 ahmpers and 16.2 watts maximuums, and shaft 15 N/m max." 

So he simply takes it granted that the drill motor would not draw higher than 16.2 Watts, no matter how much counter torque is exerted to the motor shaft when it is mechanically loaded.

Now the readers can also decide what it is worth if someone has zero or 3 reported experiments at youtube with 1 or 7 subscribers versus the 34 reported experiments of ageofmagnetizm with 19 subscribers.

Gyula
Edited to correct a typo
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Belfior on May 21, 2018, 01:20:00 PM
ageofmagnetizm,

No I am not speechless and did not stop teaching, find my words below.

Just briefly:  I am a retired video service and maintenance engineer with 37 years of experience in electronic circuits. I do not need to prove my credentials to you or anyone else: only what I write or comment that is what counts here.  I have received several "Thanks for your help" openly in members posts during the years here.

You can make many experiments, videos: if your measuring methods are wrong, your conclusions are wrong.

The big difference between you and me is: if my collegaues at work or friends explained a measuring mistake I had made I accepted and learned from it not to make it again. You do not accept if your mistake is exposed and continue driving your 1000% efficient generator agenda.

Just one example any readers here can understand: 

you wrote your insertion water heater has about 100 Ohm resistance and 500 W power. 
If you connect it across the 230 V AC mains it would draw 230 V/100 Ohm = 2.3 Amper, right?
(Let's neglect any resistance change due to the heat, it is not significant.) 
If the AC mains had 260 V, then the current draw would be 2.6 Amper.
When you connect this heater directly across your 260 V generator output, you do not show two things.

One is: how low the 260V output voltage drops to because of your 4 generator coils are in series connection and together they have 448 Ohm DC resistance as you measured.

The second is that the moment you connect the heater directly across your generator output the RPM of your motor will drop from the unloaded 1400 to a lower RPM. This means the 260V AC output voltage (which was the unloaded output voltage) will also drop  (lower rotor speed induces less EMF in the coils).

From the 448 Ohm internal coil resistance it comes that the heater cannot draw 2.6 Amper (even if the 260 VAC output would still be maintained) just because its 100 Ohm resistance is added to the 448 Ohm coil resistance: the current would be 260 V / (448+100) Ohm = 0.47 amper.
Heat dissipation in the heater would be 0.472 A * 100 Ohm = 22 Watts and
Heat dissipation in the generator coils would be 0.472  A* 448 Ohm= 98.9 Watts.
Readers here can now answer this question: Is this a hyper efficient generator? 

(The reduced RPM makes the wanted and unwanted dissipations less than the ones above because the 260 V EMF induced in the coils will also be less.)

There is a 3rd thing what ageofmagnetizm does not want to consider: how the input power to the driving motor increases when the heater is hooked up directly to the generator output. The motor is an off the shelf drill motor and there is nothing in it which would prevent the increase of its input power draw when its shaft is loaded (normal Lenz law is in full action). This is why ageofmagnetizm does show any input power measurements: he simply declares this I quote from him:

"Accu marking and manuals say 10.8 volts 1.5 ahmpers and 16.2 watts maximuums, and shaft 15 N/m max." 

So he simply takes it granted that the drill motor would not draw higher than 16.2 Watts, no matter how much counter torque is exerted to the motor shaft when it is mechanically loaded.

Now the readers can also decide what it is worth if someone has zero or 3 reported experiments at youtube with 1 or 7 subscribers versus the 34 reported experiments of ageofmagnetizm with 19 subscribers.

Gyula

Excellent write-up.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ramset on May 21, 2018, 02:33:58 PM
There is not enuff bandwidth here to post Gyula's valuable contributions to this community over the years

I know I always give a sigh of relief when he shows up to help,
and I am not aware of any person here who has ever had an issue with him.

However

I must add there are Plenty who take issue with measurements ,and this always confuses me ,as the scientific method requires measurements and scrutiny.

I have been taught to run Towards scrutiny and not away [yes it stings most times in this area of OU research but it only makes us better and sharper.

respectfully
 Chet K
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 21, 2018, 02:48:54 PM
Thats quiet a jump from throwing chairs toward practical engineering
and I'll properly comment on new development, just have to close that stats story


where simple stats of sample intruder are compared with stats off one othe guy:


Sample intruder       5 years        2075 posts             1.5 reporded experiments       4 subscribers
ageofmagnetizm     9 years           80 posts               34  reported experiments     19 subscribers[/size]

[/size]
then it becomes obvious that other guy spares time for posting for sake of toiling in workshop[/size]
while sample intruder preffers torturing keybords instead os blistering hands by[/size]
 "bending irons and winding wires. One other obvious conclussion is that "the people" rather admire[/size]
prototypes than hypothesis, because that people urgenly need Power and they are tierd from philosophers.[/size]

[/size]
I'll be back to continue on achieved development and I hope that nobody gonna throug chairs for a while.[/size]
Small hope but one.[/size]

[/size]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7jMlFXouPk8&t=0s&index=2&list=PLiCQAgl4A4dtwp5lbh2O3qqTmLwbK6dJi
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 21, 2018, 11:09:18 PM
THAT:


Heat dissipation in the heater would be 0.472 A * 100 Ohm = 22 Watts and Heat dissipation in the generator coils would be 0.472  A* 448 Ohm= 98.9 Watts.


That is not 3.5 digits wrong. It fits in bunch of somehow similare result mailed to me by various
engineers across the industry. Different people runned different soft and suggected input of differen variables
and calculated different variants. One made calculations with just 8 magnets rotor and one C-Core with 111 ohm coil without load,
other counted four differnt loads in circuits, one though that wires are round 1mm, others properly  guessed 1/3 mm.


All thouse results fit not far from the center of statistical core and are similar .


One problem with all such complex calculations is that real values of meassured temperature of coil, cores, thermoresitors and magnets
should be processed, dynamics of complex magnetic field needs to be meassured in different regimes, torquemeter and laser-velocity meter should be applyed and so on...but for initial evaluation obtained values are just fine.


One other problem of such calculations are theirs fitting for standard design where magnets move close near coils perpendicular to conductor, while MMEIR-Generators have magnets moving far from conductor also parallel to wires, and there many seamigly small differences.


Hence if one is interesting in new processes there are many ways to go around with stats, I dont mean people seaking reason to lauth
Such as: aha my calculations shows that it does not 1000% but only 200%, What a fake. Do not expect to see truth from one testing played on you-tube, there are many testings released with two last reports, and integration of them is sufficent for conclussions.


Many migh see knothing, but it is not my buiseness to argue with everybody, it is both impossible and unnecessary.
Following publications are sheduled on the end of summer or the end of this year and thouse who sees knothing I ask to mind own busines and find other significant revilations.


So far for now.


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics


DEVELOPMENT OF MAGNETO-ELECTRO-MOTIVE SYSTEMS PRODUCING [/size]POSITIVE MAGNETO-MOTIVE FEEDBACK AND ELECTRIC CURRENTS.[/size]

[/font][/size]

[/font][/size]
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 22, 2018, 09:34:42 AM
And the schruvemasine:
"Accu marking and manuals say 10.8 volts 1.5 ahmpers and 16.2 watts maximuums, and shaft 15 N/m max."


It is very goed one with brilliant accu and brushless PMM and it is also very smart mashine
having small AI build in with microcircuits and bunch of sensors monitiring and optimyzing internal processes.
Once shaft is anchored then AI simply shut down the motor, or accu what it does in many other cases
to prevent damage to any subsystems. I would believe that torque of shaft can rich 30 N/m - but just for an eye blink,
just when just starting but during testing it runns it normal cruise parameters.


Yeah, we still have peggs there, some might wish discussing maimtenence of pegs tooo?



Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 22, 2018, 11:42:19 AM
Ageofmagnetizm,

No offense intended but what do you want say with repeating some technical data on the drill you use?

It is okay that this Bosch drill has sophisticated internal circuitry but the brushless motor principle is not Lenz-less, it also draws more current from the brilliant accu as any other off-the-shelf electric motor when any mechanical load is applied on the motor shaft. More torque exerted on the shaft demands more power taken out from the accu, this motor is no exception in this respect.

Another technical notice: you commented my heat dissipation calculation as:
"That is not 3.5 digits wrong.  ...     It fits in bunch of somehow similare result mailed to me by various
engineers across the industry.    ...
All thouse results fit not far from the center of statistical core and are similar."

And you then, after mentioning some calculation problems to be considered, wrote this:

"Hence if one is interesting in new processes there are many ways to go around with stats,
I dont mean people seaking reason to lauth Such as: aha my calculations shows that it does not 1000% but only 200%, What a fake.  Do not expect to see truth from one testing played on you-tube, there are many testings released with two last reports, and integration of them is sufficent for conclussions."
 
No offense again but where is your measurement where you found even 200% efficiency? 
In your last two load test reports (if you mean that) this does not get proved at all, unfortunately.  On the contrary: it proves low efficiency, less than 100%, unfortunately.

So what you say?  Again avoid answering relevant questions?  That leads to nowhere if you disregard professional comments either from the industry or from here.

Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: Belfior on May 22, 2018, 11:55:31 AM
Gyula I would spend my time somewhere else. It would make it wort something.

When somebody is convinced they are right and accept ZERO criticism and actual scientific methodology you are fighting religion not scientific reasoning.

It is the same thing if you want to create a wine drinking incest cult and base it on the bible you can do that just by picking stuff all over the book. Something you measure and something you read from a box label, but you only use he stuff that proves you are correct.

I can also create a youtube channel where I take a shit every morning, stick a resistor in it and measure it with DMM. I would get 2 million subs in a year (japanese people mostly...). Then I could use that as proof that I am correct and you with your 15 subs are wrong!
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 22, 2018, 12:18:56 PM
Absolutly, Belfior,
Wast no time on saleing transducedrs here, my stats are less than 1000 visitors per month,
post where millions of visitors can read your adds. I do not encouradge "just sayings here".
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 22, 2018, 12:48:58 PM
Ageofmagnetizm,


Don't you find it strange that not ONE single person on this forum agrees with your conclusions that are based on false and misleading ideas?


Believing the input power is the same as the manufacturers data sheet shows a very clear lack of understanding about how things work in the  REAL  world.  The data sheet only shows what the normal input power would be under normal conditions.  That data means nothing under actual conditions.


As I have already posted, it is time for you to move on to some other forum.  Maybe a forum that is dedicated to accurate measurements of power in and power out.  Then you could learn how to properly calculate the efficiency of your generator.  Of course with your attitude you will probably get banned after your first couple of posts.  But hey, such is life.   



As the old say goes "Move along, there is nothing to see here!"  I of course am talking about your generator with it's unproven claims.



Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 22, 2018, 12:53:11 PM
Gyula, I am not mad on you at all, you persistant criticizm only means that you are not ignorant
mugs saleing person but rather made emotional approach, which became coller and constructive.
I rather respect you for your persistance, which is the second thing which is common to both of us.


I simply don want to talk drills because I know them for to long and that 16 watt one I know not just from testing,
if you want not to spend time for obtaining an absolute information on that drive  - simply aplly variants with
small margin of errors and that would not make much influence on larger stats, I would not believe that you believe that
that drive can do 100 watts when it is desighed for light jobs,


also I hope that yo dont believe that coils producing 100 watts of heat because that such transver can burn fine wire instantly.


About ampers. You've got that not far from meassured, only might had soft for standard model generators,
while soft for u- or O-transformers where coils are far from each other will gives you higher amperrage,
stil that soft is not designed for MMER-Generators where magnets induce core slighly better than primary coils of transformers.
Innitialy I was desiging generator for premium minimalization of losses and it just went much further than that.
If you assume just half amper that will be to little but would not make larger stats insignificant.


Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: kEhYo77 on May 22, 2018, 04:04:07 PM
Hi Ageofmagnetizm.

I also pointed out your measuring technique is not good under one of your videos...

Please try to make one short demonstration.
1. Connect all your generator coils in series, spin it up to steady RPM and then short generator coils with a dead short connecting both output leads together and watch the RPM if it drops.
2. Connect all your generator coils in series, spin it up to steady RPM and connect[/size] your heater resistor to output generator coils passing through multimetr in series to measure current.
3. Disconnect your meter from output circuit, connect output to heater resistor directly and then, connect your meter in parallel, across output terminals to measure Voltage under load.


We are really trying to help here.
I already see similarities to Thane Heinz's acceleration under load coils so IMHO this setup has got potential.


kEhYo
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 22, 2018, 05:31:45 PM
kEhyo77,


I have printed yout methods an glued it into one very thick book from Boing,
completly dedicated to various testing of permanent magnet generators.


Currently I'm working on next-stage prototype and I would not miss your suggestions
when it will come to testing again. Thouse two alredy published prototypes
have been passed up where they are being tested like hell
and I have no time to fly overther for additional testing.


Thaks for your optimizm and I have to notice that there previous report if you have missed it.
There many other testing and even more explanations of concetions and design:



https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme

RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M.

Construction and methods of utilization and results of testing of
the  Permanent Magnet Generator of Mechano Magnetic Electro Inducting Rings .
Gaining of excellent ~100% efficiency of conversion of energy.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 23, 2018, 12:16:50 AM
hi ageofmagnetizm,

It is good you are not mad at me, anger is always a bad adviser. 

Regarding your Bosch-made drill,  I already had a look at its specs at the Bosch home site and only then asked you about it
(i.e. why you repeated mentioning its specs again). So let me comment only this quote from you:
"... I would not believe that you believe that that drive can do 100 watts when it is desighed for light jobs."

No I do not believe this, of course.  And I think you are aware of batteries temporary performance capability: for short time
durations they are capable of providing quite high output power because of their Amper-hour capacity theoretically
includes this possibility. But in case of such drill motors you have, 100 W power would involve a heavy 9 Amper current draw,
not likely allowed to flow in the motor coils by the clever internal control circuits, albeit the battery might be capable of
delivering such high current peaks for some short duration of time.

I would also comment this (also technical) quote from you:"also I hope that yo dont believe that coils producing 100 watts of heat because that such transver can burn fine wire instantly." 

I agree and no I do not believe that the coils produce 100 Watts of heat.  Again, no offense intended but why I do not
believe it is simply because during the video load tests you showed, only a few microAmper of current was allowed to flow out from the generator coils due to the voltmeter high internal resistance you hooked up in series with the immersion heater.

Please consider this: you wrote the followings when mentioning about ampers, I quote "if I assume just half amper
that would be too little",  so if you mean the output current would be higher than that, that is okay with me but then,
even with half amper output current only, the 448 Ohm internal coil resistance would produce 0.52*448= 112 Watt heat, this would burn the windings within a very short time as you also mentioned this.

Unfortunately, with internal generator coil resistance as high as 448 Ohms, excessive heat inherently developes at relatively low output current levels as you can see from my calculation (hopefully you agree with its correctness).And the higher the output load current is, the higher heat dissipates in the windings.

Would you elaborate on this,  how you designed wire diameter and output current hence output power capability with the AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M generator you showed the heater load test in the video?

Thanks,
Gyula
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 23, 2018, 08:53:30 AM
Well, wire design was not made for manufacturing prototypes requiting high percission,
but for prof of concept models which had to validate expected parameters and features,
also allowing to collect sets of data which will help with designs of industrial models.
At the beginning I coud not knew what will comes in the end as it is usual for true experiments.


So I had only data from previous experimental testings:



CUC & MAGNET AND ZMF.
Construction of Coiled U-Core with magnet efficiently generating electric
currents by magneto-electric induction which producing
Zero Magneto-motive Feedback.


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/cuc-magnet-and-zmf


and


A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
[/font][/size]Construction of Asymmetrically Coiled C- and G- Cores and X- and Y-shaped
multy-polar Magnets and methods of production of magneto-electric induction
and Positive Magneto-motive Feedback and efficient generation of electricity.[/font][/size]

[/font][/size]
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/a3c-x-magnet


Back then it was clear that I need finest wire because that currents were not expecting to be
higher than one ampere and I was hesitating between 1/3 and 1/6 mm,
so I decided to risk with finer more efficent one, and thought ... if necessary...
then I'll by thicker one and rewind cores.


After I published first RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M




https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme

then I had about 660 ohms spul over, so I've decided to carry on same 1/3 mm, it went to be
sufficiently thin ... because that desing always require to choose wire as thin as possible for sake of efficiency.


So it was qulified luck... I'd say.

Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: ageofmagnetizm on May 23, 2018, 10:55:03 AM
Look, Gyula, as I observe my stopwach, I realize that soon, I might discontinue my
public relations and that might last, hope that not for long but befor that
 I have to produce sort of short-cut here on this discussion.


The reason why I'm so cool currying on details is because that only three month ago
I was just the same sceptical and paranoic about checking of results as yuo people are.
Though my superior virtures allowed me to come out of hell circles just wasting just one week.
When I had tested     RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M   [size=78%]      [/size]
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme


There was not much watts to admire but frustrating was that it was 19 watts from 16 watts drive,
and I was cheking and talking and washing pegs
and punching keybords, but that result was just one from series of similar results where was clear that:!!!


With increase of number of magnets and numbers of loops in coils - the output increases while input is the same.
The following course of Least Action was so obvious: why talking if I can just to SEE the continuation of increase.
And in one more week I had 8 magnets rotor and C -Core with 111 oms coil on it.... and I have got the answer:


Previous prototype had round 100 ohms on stator and giving up round 50 volts
and here I hade stator with similar 100 ohms giving up 75 volts.............
What next? More same CCC simply multiplying the output while rotor need no more power for same 1400 RPM
And with four CCCs there 270 volts,


Now gues what will happen with 8 CCCs.... there round rotor is plenty of space for them.....?


But I've got not much 1/3 wire left... and no needs to produces even more proves,
Its wise to move forvard instead of stubbing on doubt.


That what I call Path of Least Resistance
 where results are depending only on my actions without confusing complications usual in teamworks.


Hope I'll be here for a while, and hope for many other nice developments here and round this small planet.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: citfta on May 23, 2018, 11:43:14 AM


With increase of number of magnets and numbers of loops in coils - the output increases while input is the same.

But you don't know that if you don't actually measure the input power.     


Your drill motor does not use the same amount of power all the time.  It changes as the load changes.  That is a fact of normal physics.  You are using a normal drill motor as your source of power.  It follows the normal rules of power usage.


To really know what you have, you have GOT to measure the input power and the actual power you are getting from your generator.  And although everyone on this forum that has replied to this thread keeps telling you the same thing you still insist you don't have to do that.


Take the proper measurement of current and voltage going to your drill motor and take the proper measurements of the current and voltage coming from your generator so we can see how much real power you are actually getting. 

With the very small gauge wire you are using your actual power has to be very small also or you would burn up the wire which is something you have already admitted and then ignored.  You can get high voltage from the small wire but the current will be very low because of the high resistance of the wire.  So you really lose the ability to produce power by using such a small gauge wire.

Do you know what Ohm's Law is?  You really need to understand it before you can make any real conclusions about what you have.

Respectfully,
Carroll
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 23, 2018, 03:19:06 PM
Hi ageogmagnetizm,

Unfortunately, you have some wrong conclusions which may not come from your actual hand-on tests of last year or this year but they may come from certain lack of knowledge or a combination of the two, unfortunately.
For instance, you wrote this:
"Back then it was clear that I need finest wire because that currents were not expecting to be
higher than one ampere and I was hesitating between 1/3 and 1/6 mm,
so I decided to risk with finer more efficent one, and thought ... if necessary...
then I'll by thicker one and rewind cores."

For generator coils the DC resistance of the coil wire has paramount importance, just because of the inherent heat loss when load current flows in the wire. So you did not have a 'qualified luck' as you put it, you have a bad wire diameter choice and for 1 Amper or so load current, even the 1/3 mm wire sounds thin, 1/2 mm or even 3/4 mm wires should be preferred as a minimum.   Think of the Ohm's law and apply it.

And then you wrote this with respect to the RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M setup:

"After I published first RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme)
then I had about 660 ohms spul over, so I've decided to carry on same 1/3 mm, it went to be
sufficiently thin ... because that desing always require to choose wire as thin as possible for sake of efficiency."

Your conclusion is wrong at the end: for the sake of efficiency you need to use wire as thick as possible.

Another thing I have to mention here in connection with your early this year tests is that in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3sUiYIdilk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3sUiYIdilk)  you have the two generator coils in series connection and you measured the DC resistance of them to be 44 Ohm. Then you showed the 22 V AC output voltage when the you run the setup.  So far all ok.

But then please explain where did you get the 11.1 Watts output power? Because you wrote this comment under the video:
"This is video of testing of RF CMC-PMG 2E6M at 1400 rpm generating 22.00 volts and 11.10 watts of output power."

Honestly, I would like to understand how you arrived at the 11.1 W output?

Gyula   





Well, wire design was not made for manufacturing prototypes requiting high percission,
but for prof of concept models which had to validate expected parameters and features,
also allowing to collect sets of data which will help with designs of industrial models.
At the beginning I coud not knew what will comes in the end as it is usual for true experiments.
So I had only data from previous experimental testings:
CUC & MAGNET AND ZMF.
Construction of Coiled U-Core with magnet efficiently generating electric
currents by magneto-electric induction which producing
Zero Magneto-motive Feedback.
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/cuc-magnet-and-zmf (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/cuc-magnet-and-zmf)
and
A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
[/font][/size]Construction of Asymmetrically Coiled C- and G- Cores and X- and Y-shaped
multy-polar Magnets and methods of production of magneto-electric induction
and Positive Magneto-motive Feedback and efficient generation of electricity.[/font][/size]
[/font][/size]
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/a3c-x-magnet (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/a3c-x-magnet)
Back then it was clear that I need finest wire because that currents were not expecting to be
higher than one ampere and I was hesitating between 1/3 and 1/6 mm,
so I decided to risk with finer more efficent one, and thought ... if necessary...
then I'll by thicker one and rewind cores.
After I published first RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme)
then I had about 660 ohms spul over, so I've decided to carry on same 1/3 mm, it went to be
sufficiently thin ... because that desing always require to choose wire as thin as possible for sake of efficiency.
So it was qulified luck... I'd say.
Title: Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
Post by: gyulasun on May 27, 2018, 11:58:52 AM
Hi Taras,

First I reflect on your following text (regardless of when you return to this forum):
   "The reason why I'm so cool currying on details is because that only three month ago
    I was just the same sceptical and paranoic about checking of results as yuo people are."   

Well, I consider myself a healthy sceptic, with appropiate background knowledge in electrical engineering to be able
to decide whether a setup has some virtue or just one out of a dozen.  BUT I am certainly not paranoid on this or any
other setup to treat it as a crap no matter what, ok?  I do not preclude, I believe in the possibility of overunity and
I am aware of most of the obstacles that natural (mainly physics) laws establish against overunity.

What you mention on the RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M setup, I quote:
   "There was not much watts to admire but frustrating was that it was 19 watts from 16 watts drive, ..."

So again the usual question arises how did you measure the 19W and how did you know that the 16W input power did not
increase during the load test when the 19W was provided to a load, and what was the load?  Again, you would need to
provide such details that simply are NOT included in the relevant videos. See my question at the end of my above
post, for instance.

It is okay and good that you discovered by experimentation the Faraday law of induction, that the use of more magnets
i.e. magnetic flux and more number of turns the induced output VOLTAGE increases and (as you wrote in your blog) with
the increase of RPM too.  I deliberately used capital letters for 'voltage' because in most of your videos you measured output voltage
and not output power, that is of paramount importance. And YES, when your generator coil output is unloaded, the induced output voltage
is increased when you increase the loops in the coils and the number of magnets.

So your poematic guess question on what will happen with 8 CCCs the answer is given, no problem with that.
The big problem is your assumption of the 16-17 W input power would remain the same when you really load the
generator output with say a 25W or a 40W or a 60W incandescent light bulb.
IF you do not use any such or similar power load so the output remains unloaded, then the 16-17W input power draw
is guaranteed, it remains the same 16-17W.  It SHOULD remain the same because if there is no load, there is no Lenz law. 

Here I just mention your incorrect use of the voltmeter during the load tests: you have not answered why you connected the voltmeter in SERIES with the load? 
The series (and not parallel with the load) connection guarantees, willy-nilly, the 16-17W input power to the generator would not change at all during the 'load' tests. 

ALL these facts mean your claim of having a hyperefficient generator with 1000% efficiency is only a dream.

Unless you prove it with correct measurements.

Gyula


Look, Gyula, as I observe my stopwach, I realize that soon, I might discontinue my
public relations and that might last, hope that not for long but befor that
 I have to produce sort of short-cut here on this discussion.
The reason why I'm so cool currying on details is because that only three month ago
I was just the same sceptical and paranoic about checking of results as yuo people are.
Though my superior virtures allowed me to come out of hell circles just wasting just one week.
When I had tested     RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M   [size=78%]      [/size]
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme (https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme)

There was not much watts to admire but frustrating was that it was 19 watts from 16 watts drive,
and I was cheking and talking and washing pegs
and punching keybords, but that result was just one from series of similar results where was clear that:!!!

With increase of number of magnets and numbers of loops in coils - the output increases while input is the same.
The following course of Least Action was so obvious: why talking if I can just to SEE the continuation of increase.
And in one more week I had 8 magnets rotor and C -Core with 111 oms coil on it.... and I have got the answer:

Previous prototype had round 100 ohms on stator and giving up round 50 volts
and here I hade stator with similar 100 ohms giving up 75 volts.............
What next? More same CCC simply multiplying the output while rotor need no more power for same 1400 RPM
And with four CCCs there 270 volts,

Now gues what will happen with 8 CCCs.... there round rotor is plenty of space for them.....?

But I've got not much 1/3 wire left... and no needs to produces even more proves,
Its wise to move forvard instead of stubbing on doubt.

That what I call Path of Least Resistance
 where results are depending only on my actions without confusing complications usual in teamworks.

Hope I'll be here for a while, and hope for many other nice developments here and round this small planet.