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Author Topic: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.  (Read 14866 times)

Offline Belfior

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #120 on: May 21, 2018, 01:20:00 PM »
ageofmagnetizm,

No I am not speechless and did not stop teaching, find my words below.

Just briefly:  I am a retired video service and maintenance engineer with 37 years of experience in electronic circuits. I do not need to prove my credentials to you or anyone else: only what I write or comment that is what counts here.  I have received several "Thanks for your help" openly in members posts during the years here.

You can make many experiments, videos: if your measuring methods are wrong, your conclusions are wrong.

The big difference between you and me is: if my collegaues at work or friends explained a measuring mistake I had made I accepted and learned from it not to make it again. You do not accept if your mistake is exposed and continue driving your 1000% efficient generator agenda.

Just one example any readers here can understand: 

you wrote your insertion water heater has about 100 Ohm resistance and 500 W power. 
If you connect it across the 230 V AC mains it would draw 230 V/100 Ohm = 2.3 Amper, right?
(Let's neglect any resistance change due to the heat, it is not significant.) 
If the AC mains had 260 V, then the current draw would be 2.6 Amper.
When you connect this heater directly across your 260 V generator output, you do not show two things.

One is: how low the 260V output voltage drops to because of your 4 generator coils are in series connection and together they have 448 Ohm DC resistance as you measured.

The second is that the moment you connect the heater directly across your generator output the RPM of your motor will drop from the unloaded 1400 to a lower RPM. This means the 260V AC output voltage (which was the unloaded output voltage) will also drop  (lower rotor speed induces less EMF in the coils).

From the 448 Ohm internal coil resistance it comes that the heater cannot draw 2.6 Amper (even if the 260 VAC output would still be maintained) just because its 100 Ohm resistance is added to the 448 Ohm coil resistance: the current would be 260 V / (448+100) Ohm = 0.47 amper.
Heat dissipation in the heater would be 0.472 A * 100 Ohm = 22 Watts and
Heat dissipation in the generator coils would be 0.472  A* 448 Ohm= 98.9 Watts.
Readers here can now answer this question: Is this a hyper efficient generator? 

(The reduced RPM makes the wanted and unwanted dissipations less than the ones above because the 260 V EMF induced in the coils will also be less.)

There is a 3rd thing what ageofmagnetizm does not want to consider: how the input power to the driving motor increases when the heater is hooked up directly to the generator output. The motor is an off the shelf drill motor and there is nothing in it which would prevent the increase of its input power draw when its shaft is loaded (normal Lenz law is in full action). This is why ageofmagnetizm does show any input power measurements: he simply declares this I quote from him:

"Accu marking and manuals say 10.8 volts 1.5 ahmpers and 16.2 watts maximuums, and shaft 15 N/m max." 

So he simply takes it granted that the drill motor would not draw higher than 16.2 Watts, no matter how much counter torque is exerted to the motor shaft when it is mechanically loaded.

Now the readers can also decide what it is worth if someone has zero or 3 reported experiments at youtube with 1 or 7 subscribers versus the 34 reported experiments of ageofmagnetizm with 19 subscribers.

Gyula

Excellent write-up.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #120 on: May 21, 2018, 01:20:00 PM »

Offline ramset

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #121 on: May 21, 2018, 02:33:58 PM »
There is not enuff bandwidth here to post Gyula's valuable contributions to this community over the years

I know I always give a sigh of relief when he shows up to help,
and I am not aware of any person here who has ever had an issue with him.

However

I must add there are Plenty who take issue with measurements ,and this always confuses me ,as the scientific method requires measurements and scrutiny.

I have been taught to run Towards scrutiny and not away [yes it stings most times in this area of OU research but it only makes us better and sharper.

respectfully
 Chet K

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #122 on: May 21, 2018, 02:48:54 PM »
Thats quiet a jump from throwing chairs toward practical engineering
and I'll properly comment on new development, just have to close that stats story


where simple stats of sample intruder are compared with stats off one othe guy:


Sample intruder       5 years        2075 posts             1.5 reporded experiments       4 subscribers
ageofmagnetizm     9 years           80 posts               34  reported experiments     19 subscribers[/size]

[/size]
then it becomes obvious that other guy spares time for posting for sake of toiling in workshop[/size]
while sample intruder preffers torturing keybords instead os blistering hands by[/size]
 "bending irons and winding wires. One other obvious conclussion is that "the people" rather admire[/size]
prototypes than hypothesis, because that people urgenly need Power and they are tierd from philosophers.[/size]

[/size]
I'll be back to continue on achieved development and I hope that nobody gonna throug chairs for a while.[/size]
Small hope but one.[/size]

[/size]
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7jMlFXouPk8&t=0s&index=2&list=PLiCQAgl4A4dtwp5lbh2O3qqTmLwbK6dJi

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #122 on: May 21, 2018, 02:48:54 PM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #123 on: May 21, 2018, 11:09:18 PM »
THAT:


Heat dissipation in the heater would be 0.472 A * 100 Ohm = 22 Watts and Heat dissipation in the generator coils would be 0.472  A* 448 Ohm= 98.9 Watts.


That is not 3.5 digits wrong. It fits in bunch of somehow similare result mailed to me by various
engineers across the industry. Different people runned different soft and suggected input of differen variables
and calculated different variants. One made calculations with just 8 magnets rotor and one C-Core with 111 ohm coil without load,
other counted four differnt loads in circuits, one though that wires are round 1mm, others properly  guessed 1/3 mm.


All thouse results fit not far from the center of statistical core and are similar .


One problem with all such complex calculations is that real values of meassured temperature of coil, cores, thermoresitors and magnets
should be processed, dynamics of complex magnetic field needs to be meassured in different regimes, torquemeter and laser-velocity meter should be applyed and so on...but for initial evaluation obtained values are just fine.


One other problem of such calculations are theirs fitting for standard design where magnets move close near coils perpendicular to conductor, while MMEIR-Generators have magnets moving far from conductor also parallel to wires, and there many seamigly small differences.


Hence if one is interesting in new processes there are many ways to go around with stats, I dont mean people seaking reason to lauth
Such as: aha my calculations shows that it does not 1000% but only 200%, What a fake. Do not expect to see truth from one testing played on you-tube, there are many testings released with two last reports, and integration of them is sufficent for conclussions.


Many migh see knothing, but it is not my buiseness to argue with everybody, it is both impossible and unnecessary.
Following publications are sheduled on the end of summer or the end of this year and thouse who sees knothing I ask to mind own busines and find other significant revilations.


So far for now.


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics


DEVELOPMENT OF MAGNETO-ELECTRO-MOTIVE SYSTEMS PRODUCING [/size]POSITIVE MAGNETO-MOTIVE FEEDBACK AND ELECTRIC CURRENTS.[/size]

[/font][/size]

[/font][/size]

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #124 on: May 22, 2018, 09:34:42 AM »
And the schruvemasine:
"Accu marking and manuals say 10.8 volts 1.5 ahmpers and 16.2 watts maximuums, and shaft 15 N/m max."


It is very goed one with brilliant accu and brushless PMM and it is also very smart mashine
having small AI build in with microcircuits and bunch of sensors monitiring and optimyzing internal processes.
Once shaft is anchored then AI simply shut down the motor, or accu what it does in many other cases
to prevent damage to any subsystems. I would believe that torque of shaft can rich 30 N/m - but just for an eye blink,
just when just starting but during testing it runns it normal cruise parameters.


Yeah, we still have peggs there, some might wish discussing maimtenence of pegs tooo?




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #124 on: May 22, 2018, 09:34:42 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #125 on: May 22, 2018, 11:42:19 AM »
Ageofmagnetizm,

No offense intended but what do you want say with repeating some technical data on the drill you use?

It is okay that this Bosch drill has sophisticated internal circuitry but the brushless motor principle is not Lenz-less, it also draws more current from the brilliant accu as any other off-the-shelf electric motor when any mechanical load is applied on the motor shaft. More torque exerted on the shaft demands more power taken out from the accu, this motor is no exception in this respect.

Another technical notice: you commented my heat dissipation calculation as:
"That is not 3.5 digits wrong.  ...     It fits in bunch of somehow similare result mailed to me by various
engineers across the industry.    ...
All thouse results fit not far from the center of statistical core and are similar."

And you then, after mentioning some calculation problems to be considered, wrote this:

"Hence if one is interesting in new processes there are many ways to go around with stats,
I dont mean people seaking reason to lauth Such as: aha my calculations shows that it does not 1000% but only 200%, What a fake.  Do not expect to see truth from one testing played on you-tube, there are many testings released with two last reports, and integration of them is sufficent for conclussions."
 
No offense again but where is your measurement where you found even 200% efficiency? 
In your last two load test reports (if you mean that) this does not get proved at all, unfortunately.  On the contrary: it proves low efficiency, less than 100%, unfortunately.

So what you say?  Again avoid answering relevant questions?  That leads to nowhere if you disregard professional comments either from the industry or from here.

Gyula

Offline Belfior

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #126 on: May 22, 2018, 11:55:31 AM »
Gyula I would spend my time somewhere else. It would make it wort something.

When somebody is convinced they are right and accept ZERO criticism and actual scientific methodology you are fighting religion not scientific reasoning.

It is the same thing if you want to create a wine drinking incest cult and base it on the bible you can do that just by picking stuff all over the book. Something you measure and something you read from a box label, but you only use he stuff that proves you are correct.

I can also create a youtube channel where I take a shit every morning, stick a resistor in it and measure it with DMM. I would get 2 million subs in a year (japanese people mostly...). Then I could use that as proof that I am correct and you with your 15 subs are wrong!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #126 on: May 22, 2018, 11:55:31 AM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #127 on: May 22, 2018, 12:18:56 PM »
Absolutly, Belfior,
Wast no time on saleing transducedrs here, my stats are less than 1000 visitors per month,
post where millions of visitors can read your adds. I do not encouradge "just sayings here".

Offline citfta

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #128 on: May 22, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »
Ageofmagnetizm,


Don't you find it strange that not ONE single person on this forum agrees with your conclusions that are based on false and misleading ideas?


Believing the input power is the same as the manufacturers data sheet shows a very clear lack of understanding about how things work in the  REAL  world.  The data sheet only shows what the normal input power would be under normal conditions.  That data means nothing under actual conditions.


As I have already posted, it is time for you to move on to some other forum.  Maybe a forum that is dedicated to accurate measurements of power in and power out.  Then you could learn how to properly calculate the efficiency of your generator.  Of course with your attitude you will probably get banned after your first couple of posts.  But hey, such is life.   



As the old say goes "Move along, there is nothing to see here!"  I of course am talking about your generator with it's unproven claims.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #128 on: May 22, 2018, 12:48:58 PM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #129 on: May 22, 2018, 12:53:11 PM »
Gyula, I am not mad on you at all, you persistant criticizm only means that you are not ignorant
mugs saleing person but rather made emotional approach, which became coller and constructive.
I rather respect you for your persistance, which is the second thing which is common to both of us.


I simply don want to talk drills because I know them for to long and that 16 watt one I know not just from testing,
if you want not to spend time for obtaining an absolute information on that drive  - simply aplly variants with
small margin of errors and that would not make much influence on larger stats, I would not believe that you believe that
that drive can do 100 watts when it is desighed for light jobs,


also I hope that yo dont believe that coils producing 100 watts of heat because that such transver can burn fine wire instantly.


About ampers. You've got that not far from meassured, only might had soft for standard model generators,
while soft for u- or O-transformers where coils are far from each other will gives you higher amperrage,
stil that soft is not designed for MMER-Generators where magnets induce core slighly better than primary coils of transformers.
Innitialy I was desiging generator for premium minimalization of losses and it just went much further than that.
If you assume just half amper that will be to little but would not make larger stats insignificant.



Offline kEhYo77

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #130 on: May 22, 2018, 04:04:07 PM »
Hi Ageofmagnetizm.

I also pointed out your measuring technique is not good under one of your videos...

Please try to make one short demonstration.
1. Connect all your generator coils in series, spin it up to steady RPM and then short generator coils with a dead short connecting both output leads together and watch the RPM if it drops.
2. Connect all your generator coils in series, spin it up to steady RPM and connect[/size] your heater resistor to output generator coils passing through multimetr in series to measure current.
3. Disconnect your meter from output circuit, connect output to heater resistor directly and then, connect your meter in parallel, across output terminals to measure Voltage under load.


We are really trying to help here.
I already see similarities to Thane Heinz's acceleration under load coils so IMHO this setup has got potential.


kEhYo

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #130 on: May 22, 2018, 04:04:07 PM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #131 on: May 22, 2018, 05:31:45 PM »
kEhyo77,


I have printed yout methods an glued it into one very thick book from Boing,
completly dedicated to various testing of permanent magnet generators.


Currently I'm working on next-stage prototype and I would not miss your suggestions
when it will come to testing again. Thouse two alredy published prototypes
have been passed up where they are being tested like hell
and I have no time to fly overther for additional testing.


Thaks for your optimizm and I have to notice that there previous report if you have missed it.
There many other testing and even more explanations of concetions and design:



https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme

RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M.

Construction and methods of utilization and results of testing of
the  Permanent Magnet Generator of Mechano Magnetic Electro Inducting Rings .
Gaining of excellent ~100% efficiency of conversion of energy.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #132 on: May 23, 2018, 12:16:50 AM »
hi ageofmagnetizm,

It is good you are not mad at me, anger is always a bad adviser. 

Regarding your Bosch-made drill,  I already had a look at its specs at the Bosch home site and only then asked you about it
(i.e. why you repeated mentioning its specs again). So let me comment only this quote from you:
"... I would not believe that you believe that that drive can do 100 watts when it is desighed for light jobs."

No I do not believe this, of course.  And I think you are aware of batteries temporary performance capability: for short time
durations they are capable of providing quite high output power because of their Amper-hour capacity theoretically
includes this possibility. But in case of such drill motors you have, 100 W power would involve a heavy 9 Amper current draw,
not likely allowed to flow in the motor coils by the clever internal control circuits, albeit the battery might be capable of
delivering such high current peaks for some short duration of time.

I would also comment this (also technical) quote from you:"also I hope that yo dont believe that coils producing 100 watts of heat because that such transver can burn fine wire instantly." 

I agree and no I do not believe that the coils produce 100 Watts of heat.  Again, no offense intended but why I do not
believe it is simply because during the video load tests you showed, only a few microAmper of current was allowed to flow out from the generator coils due to the voltmeter high internal resistance you hooked up in series with the immersion heater.

Please consider this: you wrote the followings when mentioning about ampers, I quote "if I assume just half amper
that would be too little",  so if you mean the output current would be higher than that, that is okay with me but then,
even with half amper output current only, the 448 Ohm internal coil resistance would produce 0.52*448= 112 Watt heat, this would burn the windings within a very short time as you also mentioned this.

Unfortunately, with internal generator coil resistance as high as 448 Ohms, excessive heat inherently developes at relatively low output current levels as you can see from my calculation (hopefully you agree with its correctness).And the higher the output load current is, the higher heat dissipates in the windings.

Would you elaborate on this,  how you designed wire diameter and output current hence output power capability with the AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M generator you showed the heater load test in the video?

Thanks,
Gyula

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #133 on: May 23, 2018, 08:53:30 AM »
Well, wire design was not made for manufacturing prototypes requiting high percission,
but for prof of concept models which had to validate expected parameters and features,
also allowing to collect sets of data which will help with designs of industrial models.
At the beginning I coud not knew what will comes in the end as it is usual for true experiments.


So I had only data from previous experimental testings:



CUC & MAGNET AND ZMF.
Construction of Coiled U-Core with magnet efficiently generating electric
currents by magneto-electric induction which producing
Zero Magneto-motive Feedback.


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/cuc-magnet-and-zmf


and


A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
[/font][/size]Construction of Asymmetrically Coiled C- and G- Cores and X- and Y-shaped
multy-polar Magnets and methods of production of magneto-electric induction
and Positive Magneto-motive Feedback and efficient generation of electricity.[/font][/size]

[/font][/size]
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/a3c-x-magnet


Back then it was clear that I need finest wire because that currents were not expecting to be
higher than one ampere and I was hesitating between 1/3 and 1/6 mm,
so I decided to risk with finer more efficent one, and thought ... if necessary...
then I'll by thicker one and rewind cores.


After I published first RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M




https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme

then I had about 660 ohms spul over, so I've decided to carry on same 1/3 mm, it went to be
sufficiently thin ... because that desing always require to choose wire as thin as possible for sake of efficiency.


So it was qulified luck... I'd say.


Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #134 on: May 23, 2018, 10:55:03 AM »
Look, Gyula, as I observe my stopwach, I realize that soon, I might discontinue my
public relations and that might last, hope that not for long but befor that
 I have to produce sort of short-cut here on this discussion.


The reason why I'm so cool currying on details is because that only three month ago
I was just the same sceptical and paranoic about checking of results as yuo people are.
Though my superior virtures allowed me to come out of hell circles just wasting just one week.
When I had tested     RF PMG-MMEIR 4E6M   [size=78%]      [/size]
https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/mpg-mme


There was not much watts to admire but frustrating was that it was 19 watts from 16 watts drive,
and I was cheking and talking and washing pegs
and punching keybords, but that result was just one from series of similar results where was clear that:!!!


With increase of number of magnets and numbers of loops in coils - the output increases while input is the same.
The following course of Least Action was so obvious: why talking if I can just to SEE the continuation of increase.
And in one more week I had 8 magnets rotor and C -Core with 111 oms coil on it.... and I have got the answer:


Previous prototype had round 100 ohms on stator and giving up round 50 volts
and here I hade stator with similar 100 ohms giving up 75 volts.............
What next? More same CCC simply multiplying the output while rotor need no more power for same 1400 RPM
And with four CCCs there 270 volts,


Now gues what will happen with 8 CCCs.... there round rotor is plenty of space for them.....?


But I've got not much 1/3 wire left... and no needs to produces even more proves,
Its wise to move forvard instead of stubbing on doubt.


That what I call Path of Least Resistance
 where results are depending only on my actions without confusing complications usual in teamworks.


Hope I'll be here for a while, and hope for many other nice developments here and round this small planet.

 

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