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Author Topic: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.  (Read 12211 times)

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2018, 01:39:02 AM »

hi Gyula,


1. input power: the drive motor has the product description and specification booklet explaining that accu has 16.2 W and 10.8 V  and 1.5 Ah, and shaft torque 15Nm - these are maximums taken into calculations.


2. digital multimeter: it also has booklet explaining how to measure electrical resistance and AC voltage - simply connecting leads to terminals and switching dial on necessary function. There are no explanations about AC or DC resistance - only electrical resistance, and there is no function for AC currents - only AC voltage, and there are no explanations about needs of additional devices such as lamps or power resistors.


Interesting is your suggestion about measuring with a load, would you please, post here a link to scientific literature where such measurements are explained such that I can learn specifics and features of such proceedings.




Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2018, 01:39:02 AM »

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2018, 01:44:29 AM »

Hi truesearch,
thanks for encouraging me,
but I have to encourage you and other here to replication or building of similar simple experiments,
which will expand the borders of knowledge.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2018, 12:46:43 PM »
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

1) you surely know that a battery can be overloaded for a certain short time i.e. abused beyond its normal
ratings and if you do not monitor its output voltage and current you will not be aware of it when your generator
setup may overload it.
2) in User Manuals for digital multimeters the text does not always include the How to or What to measure
with detailed explanations etc and it is also unfortunate your meter does not have AC current measuring function.

I quote this part from you:  "Interesting is your suggestion about measuring with a load,"  you sound as if
this would be the first time you hear about such thing and I could say this is interesting when you build such setups.
In your home any electrical appliance is a load to your mains input and these appliences have a rated power
consumption and your Watthour meter registers their consumption. When you disconnect all appliences the meter
does not register consumption in your home. Your generator setup output is no exception: it provides an AC output
power when you attach a load across its output. And if you do not have a load there is no output power while your
drill still runs your setup and consumes power from its Li-ion battery.

Anyway, See this link first and please go through on it all:
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/accircuits/power-in-ac-circuits.html

and then I suggest the followings: use a power resistor as the LOAD across your output coil.  Because you will
know the Ohm value, you can really calculate the power dissipated in it by the formula V2/R and no problem your
multimeter has no AC current measuring function, it is not needed in this case: just measure the AC voltage
across it and then use the formula.

Very likely the RPM of your drill will be reduced the moment you connect the load resistor to the generator
output coil or at least that is what is expected in most setups, I wish you should not experience that in your setup.
If you do, then you would need to check input current and voltage to your drill to get a meaningful efficiency test.

Why I suggest the use of a power resistor: it has a known resistance so it loads your output coil with a constant
value unlike to say an incandescent lamp which has a nonlinearly changing resistance in function of the voltage across it.

Your output power measuring method can exactly be the same like measuring AC power taken from either
the mains or from the secondary coil of a mains transformer, you can find many explanations on AC power
measurements at Wiki or elsewhere.

Because you cannot measure AC current with your present multimeter that is why the use of
a known load resistor is needed.

See Figure 2 in this link http://www.bristolwatch.com/ele/transformers.htm where power measurement
is explained in a mains transformer: an AC ampermeter is shown in series with load resistor R1 in the secondary
coil too. Your generator output coil corresponds exactly to the secondary coil of this transformer when
its output power is to be measured. But you will choose a known R1 load resistor so that you can use
V2/R1 formula for output power by measuring only the AC voltage across R1. 

Gyula

Edited to make text lines less wide
« Last Edit: April 29, 2018, 05:04:08 PM by gyulasun »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2018, 12:46:43 PM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2018, 02:52:30 PM »
for gyulasum,


here is the picture of multimeter inner smart components, there are small battery and small loudspeaker and smal but smart electric circuits allowing fast and simple measurements of electrical resistance and output AC voltage which are necessary for calculation of power output.


and here is link to article on Wikipedia explaining how multimeters function when measuring:


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multimeter


Alternating current sensing
Since the basic indicator system in either an analog or digital meter responds to DC only, a multimeter includes an AC to DC conversion circuit for making alternating current measurements. Basic meters utilize a rectifier circuit to measure the average or peak absolute value of the voltage, but are calibrated to show the calculated root mean square (RMS) value for a sinusoidal waveform; this will give correct readings for alternating current as used in power distribution. User guides for some such meters give correction factors for some simple non-sinusoidal waveforms, to allow the correct root mean square (RMS) equivalent value to be calculated.

next week I'll wright more about how and why I"ve published such measurement and some more about other measurements, but for now read about multimeter and the rectifier circuits build inside of the device:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectifier

and have a nice weekend too...


Offline gyulasun

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2018, 05:20:47 PM »
What you write as quoted on multimeters sounds ok BUT has nothing to do with the fact that
you have not used any load across your generator output coil to estimate output power.

You seem to be really lacking the needed understanding of this neasurement topic in electronics.

I wish you good luck in your endeavours.

Gyula

PS if you reduce your uploaded picture size to have a max of 900 to 1000 pixels horizontally,
instead of the 2048 pixels,  then we do not have to scroll horizontally back and forth to read the posts.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2018, 05:20:47 PM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2018, 11:30:13 AM »

Glad that I've got chance of explaining that applied multimeter is sufficiently smart for
knowing of real electrical resistance and real AC voltage for calculations. there is one more
important function of  multimeter which I use during testing and which I explain by following
image illustrating this though experiment:
when multimeter is connected to both lamp and power source (electric generator or accu etc.) -
then it can function as simple on-off switch. On the schema above - the multimeter is switched off
and current does not flow in circuit and lamp produces no light because that circuit is
disconnected inside of the multimeter, and on the schema below - the multimeter is switched for
measurements of electric voltage allowing current to flow through whole circuit also through
multimeter, what is indicating by the light producing by the lamp.
produced light manifests that current flow through multimeter hence multimeter act as load -
very small load but some.


During my testing I switch multimeters on and off such allowing currents to flow
through electric circuits made of coils of generators and multimeter...
this is important for my following explanations of testing - to understand
that during measurements of voltage current is flowing through wires of stator and
when multimeter is switched off then there no current in testing coils.


here is picture of said thought experiment and following are explanations of testing generators with and without loads.

Offline citfta

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2018, 11:59:50 AM »
Using test equipment in ways it was not designed to be used only gives erroneous results.  I can use my $200 camera as a wheel chock to
keep my car from rolling.  But that is not the best way to use my camera.  And that is not going to give me the results I would get if I used my
 camera correctly.  You really really need to take some basic electronic courses because you are very confused about how to use meters and
 how electricity works.

You should also know that the cheap Harbor Freight meters you are using are not very accurate.  I have several of them for quick testing and
 some very good meters for when I actually want accurate measurements.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2018, 11:59:50 AM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #22 on: April 30, 2018, 12:54:30 PM »

to citfta,
cheap does not means inappropriate, some times I use my grandfather's hammer and it works well.
I have some very old very simple voltmeter and it needs supplemental circuits for different measurements,
but those cheap multimeters are fine - just look on above picture at left side - it has sort of  microprocessor in it.


Now about testing generators with loads. Such suggestion is based on folks truth which is confirmed by countless
trails of turning a shaft of generators when its are disconnected from load and connected to load -
manifesting that a shaft of disconnected generator moves much easier than shaft of a generator connected to load.
This is absolutely true, except that it is incompleet knowledge which comprises no details of the processes and reasons
of differences.
When is asked which electrical load in watts needs twice or ten times more input power in Newton meters
then seldom engineer will produce an answer. The simple fact is that connected generator needs more power input
 because that its coils become connected to external circuit such allowing current to flow though wires of stator,
and when generator is disconnected - then current can not flow in coils of a stator.
These flowing currents makes the difference inducing own magnetic field which interact with magnetic field of a rotor
such causing deceleration of moving magnets and Producing Negative Magnetomotive Feedback -
when current can not (does not) flow through wires then there no magnetic fields decelerating magnets of rotor and shaft moves easier.


here is link to short video where stator of generator has two parallel electrical circuits each made of coil connected to own multimeter


https://youtu.be/6FZ6kz6cs2o


first multimeters shows electrical resistance of each coil separately when rotor is motionless, then multimeters are switched
on AC voltage and drive motor turns rotor causing alternating magnetization of C-Cores of coils -
this causes EMF and currents flow in two parallel circuit what is indicated on displays of two multimeters.
Flowing currents inducing own magnetic field which does not decelerate rotor moving far from coils.
The, continuous testing shows one multimeter switched off so disallowing current to flow in one of coils while other coil
remains with switched on multimeter which shows AC voltage to compare with voltage generating when current flows in both coils.
That is manifestation of efficiency of MMEIR-Generator where magnetic field of coils do not decelerates moving magnets of rotor.


Read previous report where I explain Zero Magnetomotive Feedback in more details.


 

Offline citfta

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2018, 02:27:01 PM »
Well, you have had at least two of us tell you that what you are doing is giving you incorrect answers.  I know that at least two of us have
many years of experience in electronics.  I have over 50 years experience myself.  You keep rejecting the advice we have offered so I can only
assume you are not really interested in learning.  I won't bother you anymore with suggestions for proper study and learning.

Good luck.  You are going to need it if you ever hope to actually learn anything.

Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2018, 02:27:01 PM »
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Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2018, 04:19:24 PM »
To citfta,
The multimeters which you consider as inapropriate, are allowed to errors of fraction of 1 volt what can be waved when measuring hundreds. I've actually measured with expensive DMM also, which has slightly smaller margin of errors - and found that differences are far unimportant.
Next will be paper issured by testing and validation program which I'll publish too...


Shall continue.

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 11:42:41 AM »

5. Testing with loads.


In respond to numerous suggestions within various discussions - I release more information about testing of AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M.
The generator was tested with its four 450 ohms coils connected in single electrical circuit with multimeter and various loads, where circuits were measured to know values of total electrical resistance and AC voltage generating by 8 magnets rotor running by 16.2 watt drive motor switched on 1400 RPM.
Main article has been updated with new report:


https://sites.google.com/site/ageofmagnetizm/home/magnetomechanics/hyperefficient-generator


Video fo testing:


https://youtu.be/SzlJ6LDgQJ4



short video where AF PMG-MMEIR 4E8M is being tested with 250 ohms thermoelectric resistor, and then video is paused and continue with testing of generator connected with 60 ohms electrical inductor, and paused and continue with testing of generator with no load connectet to circuit. During three tests multimeter display same >260 AC voltage what is obvious manifestation of expected Zero Magnetomotive Feedback and enexpectually discovered Hyperefficiency where output electric power is many time greater than mechanical input power of drive motor.
Shall continue...


By Taras Leskiv.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2018, 11:42:41 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #26 on: May 07, 2018, 11:16:59 AM »
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

I would like you to do a test if you do not mind? See the attached picture I took from your video
to show how I think.

The upper part shows your Test 3 from the video when you show the generator output coil
has about the 450 Ohm wire resistance (well, 453 Ohm or so, no problem). 

In the lower picture I show you how I would like you to connect the thermoelectric resistor to the
generator output coil, I used two yellow lines as wire connections, ok?

If you do not mind to make a short, say 2 minute long video, please show first what Ohm value
your DMM shows in the same 2000 Ohm measurement range.  Then please do not change the resistor
connections but just switch the meter to AC 750 V range and start the drill motor and show what AC voltage
is coming out from the generator coil, ok?

In your Test 3 (at the end of the video) the AC voltmeter showed 260 V or so output voltage from the generator
and it would be very good to see the output voltage in this Test 4 I suggest you to do.

Thanks, Gyula

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2018, 04:59:26 PM »
There are two reasons I'm posting here:
1. To learn about similar experiments and hopefully replications of similar constructions, at least such simle as I have discussed at the beginning of this post;
2.and the second reason is to learn oppinions and suggestions about testing, constructions and a theory of the processes.


About suggestion on the resistor: this one is recicled from immersion water heater which internal insulation is burned through hence one terminal is connected to resistor wire and other to the place of burn-through external cover. I new that readers will have chance to think that there is my mistake, but count that multimeter does not interpretate a load which can be a sweet drink, or silver bullet or even dead rat- multimeter is rationally doing measurement and dislaying resistance between its terminals - without interpretations. I did many similar measurements with other resistores and results are very similar-there is nothing like dramatic drop of voltage because that magnetic fields of coils of stator do not decelerate rotor and same rpm cause same freequency causing same voltage. Additionally saying- when resistance of thermoresistor is being measured then dc  current from multimeter flows from resistor causing its warming and proportional increase of electrical resistance, and ac current from generator does the same and after short measuring of ac current - measurements of resistance displays its higher values, this also can be filmend and taken into calculations (perhapse for educational or entertaining channels).


About ends of running of rotor: drill has button allowing to operate rpm from min. till max. Hence I try to push and release button gently for sake of protection of structures from mechanical overstressing, it also allow to tune rpms by watchin display of multimeter and holding button so that slower rotor will induce desirable voltage but during main phase of testing I hold button on max., some times I run rotor for 5, 10, 15 etc minutes but its too noizy and nothing special to be demonstrated on videos ( other then entertaining videos, perhaps).


Occationally I thank you Gyula, for previous comments and useful links which others can read too.
Hope that I have dissolved many doubts and others will roll up sleaves and look on shelfs for stuff which can be recicled for replication, there is nothing special and cheap multimeter will suffice.


Other wise keep asking, adviceing, suggestig, even teaching. Why not?

Offline gyulasun

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2018, 08:05:12 PM »
Hi ageofmagnetizm,

Thanks for the answers, I will comment them tomorrow or later on if you do not mind.

From your earlier videos one can see you have got two identical multimeters, their type is DT 830D
if I can see them correctly.

I would like you to do a measurement with them on each other.  Please set the range switch
on one of the DMMs to the 2000 kOhm position and measure the resistance between the COM
(black) input and the V-Ohm-mA (red) input on the other DMM which is set to AC 750V.
Then please swap the meters and do the same measurement on the input of the first DMM.

I can show you my test on such measurement, see the photo below. I have the same brand DMM
like you have, its type is M-830B and its specifications are most likely the same. You can see that
my bigger DMM, DT9205B measures 1.227 MegaOhm resistance (set to the 2 MegaOhm position) between
the inputs of the M-830B which I set to AC 600V position. I would assume your DT830D would have similar
resistance around the 1 MegaOhm values.
I checked my M-830B meter in DC 600V position too and it has 992 kOhm resistance.
(I can explain why the AC 600 V position is measured to have a higher resistance versus the DC 600 V if desired.)

Thanks
Gyula

Offline ageofmagnetizm

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Re: A3C & X-MAGNETS AND PMF.
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2018, 08:41:25 PM »
I have three of those cheap testers, 've spend 10 EUR and have no fear to burn 'm if experiments go unpredictably bad.Have arranged testing and validation at Scientific Research Laboratory, later this month, hope they'll allow me to make some pictures and videos of testing for privat use and I'll upload more.


If you can explain your multimeters problem in more simple and direct manner, please?

 

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