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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 40809 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #795 on: August 09, 2018, 10:45:13 PM »

While waiting for "the next step", i made a comparison between my just received SMD Schottky diodes (mbr0520lt1G
20V, 500ma) and the earlier used 1N4148 diodes.

These SMD diodes have a Forward Voltage drop of 140mV measured with my Fluke DMM (diode test setting) and
the 1n4148's measure around 600mV, so for a 14 diode ring this means a total difference of 7v (9V versus 2V).

The leds behave differently with the schottky diodes, the resonance peak frequency is much lower (4.6Mhz) and less
broad, depending if i have attached the DMM for measuring the voltage (18.05V).
Also the white cliplead to the back of the leds has to be there.

With the 1N4148's, the resonance frequency is higher (7.2MHz) with or without the DDM leads and much broader,
but the leds are not that bright on as the voltage across them is about 17.65v.

I used my FG for these tests as with the Xtal osc. it ran only with the 1N4148 diodes (13.56Mhz), not with the schottky's.
Using some lower frequency Xtals (4.4Mhz , 3.5Mhz, 6mhz) made some difference, but adding any DMM lead or scope
probe killed the leds, so i was unable to make some readings.

So we do not see the 7V Forward Voltage drop difference having much effect as probably its being smoothed out by the leds
(zener effect?).

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdgvmFIAkQw


Gyula,  i have seen your earlier comments, i will reply to them tomorrow.


Itsu
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #795 on: August 09, 2018, 10:45:13 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #796 on: August 10, 2018, 12:15:58 AM »
Hi Itsu,

You wrote: "So we do not see the 7V Forward Voltage drop difference having much effect as probably its being smoothed out by the leds (zener effect?)."
 
Yes, the smaller voltage drop can mainly manifest in the loop as an increased current (the LEDs brightness increased) because of the voltage limiting LED characteristics (they are relatively good Zener diodes). If you feel like doing, compare the currents in the loop when the Schottky and when the 1N4148 Si diodes are used (driving them from FG).
If not the LEDs were used as the load in the diode loop but say a linear load like a resistor, then the 7V difference could be measured more readily across the resistor, depending on the load current, of course (forward diode drops are current dependent).

It is interesting the frequency went down when the Schottky diodes were used, this might be explained by their much higher self capacitance in the reverse direction, see Figure 3 in data sheet: https://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/MBR0520LT1-D.PDF   Unfortunately, no switching time is specified for this diode, although they recommend it for high frequency rectification, probably very good for up to some ten kHz to rectify with low voltage drop.

Thanks for testing this diode type, I appreciate your kindness.

Gyula

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #797 on: August 10, 2018, 10:31:48 AM »
Hi Itsu,

I wonder why your setup peaks around 9 MHz when driven from the FG instead of the 13.5MHz the oscillator provides, the difference sounds too high at first.

Could it be due to the oscillator output being a high impedance source while the FG has the usual 50 Ohm low impedance output and the "shunting" effect of the latter via the overall stray capacitances of the 'enviroment'  (the lattice as the Doc would put it) can have such a high detuning behaviour? Well, maybe this is the case.
I assume that none of two L3 coils can be tuned individually by a small piece of ferrite rod to increase brightness any further, once the oscillator tank capacitor is set to the maximum light: this would insure the two L3 is in resonance around 13.5 MHz.
In case the coils would need tuning towards a little higher frequency, then try to use a piece of Alu or copper rod (say with a few mm OD and 10-15 mm long) because they will have the effect of increasing coil resonant frequency (versus the normal decreasing effect of a ferromagnetic core).
And if this same could be found for the case when the FG drives the two L3 coils, then my assumption would be correct, otherwise not.

Notice in the Doc's latest video the two L3 coils are placed far enough from each other length wise, your coils have parallel axis, this gives higher chance for mutual coupling than that the Doc's coils position. I mean there is a higher 'built-in detuning' possibility in your arrangement for the two coils (but this may not be a drawback).

Thanks for the video.

Gyula

Gyula,

i think when putting 2 coils in series, the inductance adds up, so the total inductance becomes 2x 27uH = 54uH.
This will cause a lower resonance frequency when the capacitance stays equal (13.6 becomes 9MHz).

As i mentioned in the SMD diode post, the double L3 resonance peak (the range in which the ledstrip is lighted),
is very broad covering between 7 to 15Mhz with the 1N4148's.

So the Xtal osc at 13.6Mhz was able to light the ledsstrip (1N4148 diodes), but when fine tuning using the FG it
peaked the lighs around 9 and 7.7Mhz.

I did not try to tune the both L3 coils, but i was looking if there is some change when moving the both vertical
L3 coils to or from each other.
Only when they are almost touching each other (so very close) there is a change for the better (mutual coupling).

I did at first try with the both L3 coil laying flat on the bench like Dr Stiffler did, but the effects were the same.

I will try some of your suggestions tonight, including the current measurement.


Thanks,   Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #797 on: August 10, 2018, 10:31:48 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #798 on: August 10, 2018, 03:10:03 PM »
Hi Itsu,

Okay on the total inductance in series connection, they add up indeed and normally the result is the sum of the two IF there is no mutual coupling between the two coils. From this, two things may come:

to maintain the 13.56 MHz resonant frequency for two coils in series, what if the individual coils are reduced in advance to around 2 x 13.5 uH ?  Will they give the quarter wave voltage maximum at their top when fed with 13.56 MHz? 

The other thing is the effect of mutual inductance, as is the case with your two coils much closer to each other than in the Doc's setup, it increases (or reduces) the sum of the two inductances.

It is the magnetic coupling which can make the tuning very broad, it is ok that maximum brightness comes when you place the coils very close (almost touching) each other but how the quarter wave resonance may develop at the top of the coil is a good question in that case.
Of course I do not mean you reduce the number of turns for the two L3 coils and check them at 13.56 MHz. All I mean is the use of 2 coils in series may make tuning more complex. 

Gyula

Offline tinman

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #799 on: August 10, 2018, 03:30:46 PM »
All--I'm not sure now that a 'Ring Modulator' is like the 'Stiffler Loop'.  The Ring Modulator (like Gyula mentioned) is all about mixing two input signals.  We are dealing with just one here.  It was perhaps a trip down a rabbit hole. That was an interesting idea but maybe a waste of time to pursue that explanation.

Slider----Yep.  If Doc lights up an LED panel stuck in the ground more than about 6 inches away from the SEC----- I will be surprised also.

---Lidmotor

6 inches  ::)
I'll give you 6 feet at a frequency of just 100KHz

I see ya'll still using diodes  ???

Meet Mista Transista
10V P/P-->100KHz  ;)
Duel inductive bass drives,with double junction capacitive enhancers  ;D

Whens the challenge start?


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #799 on: August 10, 2018, 03:30:46 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #800 on: August 10, 2018, 03:45:55 PM »
its actually   out side /away from inside ambient power source thru the ground on "flea power "
with no wires at all ,not sure of the distance Doc will be showing tho



Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #801 on: August 10, 2018, 03:46:35 PM »

Gyula,

i tried to make things clearer, but afterwards i don't think i succeeded  :)

Setup similar as Dr. Stiffler with the both L3 coils on the bench driven by my FG.

First using the 1N4148 diode ring measuring the current.
We see 3 peaks around 7.5MHz (strongest), 9.5MHz and 12MHz, strongest current around 2.1mA rms.
Using the white cliplead to the back of the ledstrip makes no visible difference, nor inserting copper rods in the L3 coils.

Second using the schottky diode ring.
We see one strong peak around 6.3Mhz with a current of 10mA rms.
The white cliplead to the back of the ledstrip makes a difference in peak frequency (7.7Mhz without it).
Also removing the current probe has influence on the peak frequency (9Mhz without cliplead, 7Mhz wih cliplead).

But all in all we can confirm that these schottky diodes allowing for more current through the loop resulting in higher
brightness of the attached leds.

video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UUmOA_6Tug

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #801 on: August 10, 2018, 03:46:35 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #802 on: August 10, 2018, 04:18:29 PM »
its actually   out side /away from inside ambient power source thru the ground on "flea power "
with no wires at all ,not sure of the distance Doc will be showing tho

Yes,that is what i was referring to--in the ground,no wires.

!But!,there is a wire--the ground--how do you think RCDs work?
If the ground cannot carry current,then why do you get electrocuted if you grab the live wire?

A lot of people just dont fully grasp how much current can flow through the earth,and how well the earth conducts. Something like wireless power transfer through the ground may seem very surprising or amazing to some,but there is really nothing to it.


Brad

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #803 on: August 10, 2018, 06:00:49 PM »
 8) love it, competing methods.

Brad, yours is closer to Tesla's frequencies, Dr. Stiffler's is something he also seems confident in.
I've tried bunches of methods and there's no issue indoors in tubs of soil. Some probably work outdoors, with a healthy truckload of salt in the earth. But that would see as much mayhem from critters as TK's wind up zapper !

Up to now, I think what Lidmotor is also saying is that there is a heavy attenuation when the actual ground outside is the connecting wire. It's no way a huge flat copper sheet surrounding the Earth from experiments so far.
Stubblefield had that problem when moving from a field in nowhere land, to a built up city.
But, is that because the wrong frequencies have been used, not deep enough ground stakes, mismatched TX and RX with the wrong range of tunings, what ?
At this point I just want to finally replicate the scene in the film The Prestige and don't really care how I get there  ;D

From the Doc's latest video, he should have his lathe sorted pretty soon.
The race is on.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #803 on: August 10, 2018, 06:00:49 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #804 on: August 10, 2018, 06:02:28 PM »
Hi Itsu,

You did succeed in making things clearer with your kind tests. This setup looks simple, yet needs background knowledge and some useful pieces of measuring instrument to explore it and still there surely remain areas to be explored and understood.

When an L3 coil is driven by an FG at the correct quarter wave frequency, a voltage maximum develops at the top of the coil, this is the basic desirable situation.  Now if a second identical L3 is driven from the top of the first L3, then how the voltage maximum changes on the first and how it can develop on the top of the second L3:  the desirable situation would be that the second L3 could enhance the voltage to a higher level than what is on the top of the first L3. Like a "two stage amplifier" would do it. I am not sure yet whether this can be done, this is why I mentioned for this case the individual checking of the two coils with both ferromagnetic and Alu or copper cores.   
I can be wrong with this, of course.

A sidenote: why the Doc used a resistor to connect the two L3 coils in series, why not directly?  Maybe to reduce current between the two coils hence the loading influence.

Anyway, thanks for your efforts.

Gyula

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #805 on: August 10, 2018, 06:10:00 PM »
Gyula - The extra coil ?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #805 on: August 10, 2018, 06:10:00 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #806 on: August 10, 2018, 06:14:26 PM »
Yes, it is possible.  In his Colorado Spring Notes he wrote about a third coil too.

Offline tinman

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #807 on: August 10, 2018, 06:42:34 PM »
8) love it, competing methods.

Brad, yours is closer to Tesla's frequencies, Dr. Stiffler's is something he also seems confident in.
I've tried bunches of methods and there's no issue indoors in tubs of soil. Some probably work outdoors, with a healthy truckload of salt in the earth. But that would see as much mayhem from critters as TK's wind up zapper !

Up to now, I think what Lidmotor is also saying is that there is a heavy attenuation when the actual ground outside is the connecting wire. It's no way a huge flat copper sheet surrounding the Earth from experiments so far.
Stubblefield had that problem when moving from a field in nowhere land, to a built up city.
But, is that because the wrong frequencies have been used, not deep enough ground stakes, mismatched TX and RX with the wrong range of tunings, what ?
At this point I just want to finally replicate the scene in the film The Prestige and don't really care how I get there  ;D

From the Doc's latest video, he should have his lathe sorted pretty soon.
The race is on.

Passing current through the ground follows a path like a piece of glass shattering--who knows which direction is the path of least resistance to which receiver.
Lets say the current path that has the least resistance is to a large tree's root system in stead of to your receiver,where the tree it self become the receiver. Even the blades of grass can act as a receiving antenna,and things like this may have to be tuned out before your receiver is what receives the needed coupling to work.

The ground it self has much to do with how much current can pass through it.
Wet beach sand is far better than dry desert sand,and a high concentration of coffee rock would throw out or distort RF induction,due to it being very magnetic.
There are so many factors in play here,anything could happen. What works in one location has a very good chance of not working in another,unless the ground is the same.

This coming summer,i will show you something really cool.
I will shoot a video of me holding a fluro tube in my hand,lit up bright,while im sitting in my swimming pool,and not feel a thing.
But it gets better.
I'll then show you a video of me walking out into a large estuary,holding that same large fluro,and have it lit while walking more than 100 meters away from the transmitter.

What is my transmitter you ask?,well it's a slayer circuit,but where a motor vehicle ignition coil replaces the SEC coils.

Much to come this summer.


Brad

Offline Lidmotor

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #808 on: August 10, 2018, 07:58:40 PM »
Brad---It is good to see you working on this.  I did the O-scope test you suggested to look for the phase shift that verifies the induction link to the Loop but my cheap computer scope didn't work right for that test.  I look forward to your car ignition coil Slayer Exciter. 

TK----I have watched ALL you videos on this topic over the years and you have a great understanding of what goes on.  Someday I will build your 'Black Box'.  That is my favorite.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x2YfA9LU5s

Slider--- I suggest that the first one who gets worms to come out of the ground at 6ft using 1 watt gets a prize.  Maybe a cheese burger.  Never mind lighting up a few LEDs---We need worms!!  PS---No German phone generators allowed.


I found this funny Slayer Exciter video this morning that some might enjoy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzSoabcQYMg

---Lidmotor

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #809 on: August 10, 2018, 09:00:22 PM »
Gyula - The extra coil ?
Actually there are only two coils in that drawing. It's an "ordinary" Tesla coil, with primary, grounded secondary, and topload.The ground plate is connected to the bottom of a portion of the secondary that is directly underneath and closely coupled to the primary.The top of this portion is connected to, or rather is simply continuous with, the rest of the air-core helical resonator. The structure at the top is Tesla's huge surface-area toroidal construction.
The reason for this coil construction is to enable close-coupling down low, but to avoid any chance of HV arcing from secondary to the primary.The bottom portion of the secondary, underneath the primary, doesn't yet develop enough voltage to arc over. Higher up, though, and
Tesla knew you needed more distance between primary and secondary to avoid arcing. So you have two competing parameters: arc-overand coupling. In this design Tesla wanted to maximize coupling but minimize any chance of arc-over. There are other ways to do this also,such as the inverted-cone primary or the pancake (flat ribbon) primary.

 

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