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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 39315 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #540 on: July 11, 2018, 04:37:10 PM »
   Gyula:   I seam to be burning out my C1815 transistors bases.  Can you tell me what is the highest voltages that can be used on that  transistor's base? 5v?  When using 12v input, or higher input sources, like my 12v 5w solar panel (20v). I am blowing these small transistors.   And also, is there a benefit to using a higher (or the highest) voltages recommended on the transistor base?
   I have tried that same type of C1815 transistor with all my different value crystals, and the voltages at the collector/emitter is between 10v, and 15v, between the different crystals. With the best highest voltages (15v) when using the 7.2MHz crystal, and not the 13.5MHz crystal, on my oscillator.
   
   Which is the "best" transistor to use when the input is 12v to 30v?
   I will be picking up a couple of those DC to DC convertors in a few days. I just have to make a long trip to get them, as they came from China, but got stuck at post office, instead being shipped to my house.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #540 on: July 11, 2018, 04:37:10 PM »

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #541 on: July 11, 2018, 04:48:21 PM »
Here's the datasheet Nick:
https://www.mouser.com/ds/2/68/2sc1815-1149989.pdf
Looks like 5V for the Base. A 10K variable pot to the Base should show the input limits...most fun if you have lots of transistors still.
The 'GR' type of C1815 are common on PC monitor CRT chassis, where they haven't used C945's.

Just type in 2S and then a transistor type for datasheets, seems to work well on Startpage.
2SC1815 in this case.
:)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #542 on: July 11, 2018, 06:54:46 PM »
Hi Nick,

I wonder how you know you are burning the base of those transistors? (just wish to understand what makes you say that)

If you used a trimmer potmeter (like Itsu did) instead of the fix 100 kOhm base resistor in the oscillator and you adjusted the potmeter to its lowest value which is a short circuit area for the wiper to one of the edges, then the base-emitter diode has much chance to burn out due to the very high base current received dircetly from the 12V (or whatever) supply voltage. This is why it is very advisable to use a 1 k to 10 k resistor in series with the potmeter to avoid the excess base current when the potmeter is turned to a very low value.

You need to understand that the base-emitter junction (in a bipolar transistor) behaves exactly like a normal diode biased in the forward direction.  It is the current fed into the base from a positive voltage source (wrt the emitter and for an NPN type) which should be controlled via a resistor.

A diode as you know start conducting when its anode (in this case it is the base) receives a positive voltage wrt its cathode (here it is the emitter). Both for the diodes and for the transistors base-emitter there is the p-n junction voltage below which the diode cannot conduct: for your Si (silicon) transistor this is around and in between 0.58 to 0.8 V. 
BUT if you connect say a 1.2V battery directly across the base and the emitter (positive to the base and negative to the emitter) without any series current limiting resistor, then you burn out the base-emitter diode in such low power transistor.  (A 2N3055 type has a 4 Amper max base current limitation.)  This is the same as if you connect a diode like 1N4007 directly across the 1.2V battery (also in the forward bias direction of course), then the current can be so high that it would be heat up the diode in no time and it burns out (and during the few seconds it heavily discharges the 1.2V battery). 
So the question really is how much current the base of a transistor is specified for and not what is the highest voltages that can be used, ok? These transistors that the Doc and everyone else uses in such oscillators are called bipolar transistors (and npn types). The field effect transistors (that include MOSFETs of course) are controlled by changing the voltage across their gate and source: they are voltage controlled while the bipolar transistors are said to be current controlled devices, ok?

The 5V base emitter voltage, VEBo shown in the data sheet Slider linked to means the maximum reverse voltage rating for the base - emitter diode, ok? Nothing to do with the 0.58-0.7V bias (i.e. p-n junction) voltage which developes across the base and emitter when you apply a higher than this bias voltage in the forward direction via a series resistor (to limit the base current).

How can it be known it would mean reverse voltage ??
Notice the letter order in the suffix from left to right: VEBo (and not VBEo) where the 5V max limit is given for the emitter and base and the EB order means the reverse direction !

And you can see the BE order in the VBEsat for instance where the order is base - emitter, this means forward bias direction (the word 'sat' means saturation voltage between the base an emitter in the forward direction. You see the test condition for VBEsat=1V maximum when IC=100mA, IB=10mA.

"Best" transistors to use: Lidmotor listed two.  I listed at least other two types that Itsu kindly ordered and used.

The 'rule of thumb' for such oscillators that have a coil in the collector is to use transistors rated for collector emitter voltages (VCEo) with at least 3 times higher ratings than the supply voltage applied. The VCEo for the 2SC1815 is specified as maximum 50 V, so 50/3= 16 V: so the supply voltge should be below 16V to be on the safe side.
For a 30 V supply voltage you wish to use, at least a 100 V rated bipolar transistor should be chosen. Lidmotor uses a BD243C which is a 100 V VCEo rated type (notice the BD243 type can have A, B and C suffixes that designates exactly the collector emitter voltage ratings, C being the highest for that type).

What a mess is in the semiconductor world you would say...   ;D

Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #542 on: July 11, 2018, 06:54:46 PM »
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Offline Lidmotor

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #543 on: July 11, 2018, 08:10:19 PM »
Nick---I really bothers me that you are having so much trouble.  I guess it is because I can relate to what you are going through. I have been down that road on many projects.  Not the right parts, perhaps a minor error in the build, or simply not really understanding what is happening and why the damn thing won't work.   On a circuit like this crystal oscillator there are not that many things that can go wrong-- if you have parts that are close to the required ones and the circuit is assembled right.  If you are burning up transistors something is basically wrong.  When I run into a situation like this I basically start over at square one.  Get the parts all separated out and make sure each one works and isn't burned out. I usually setup a Joule Thief circuit on a breadboard to test the transistors. Take a look at the circuit diagram and make sure you have that completely right.  Build it up on a breadboard first to see if it runs and to make easy adjustments.  Sometimes I build up a 'dead bug' arrangement rather than solder the parts on a board. It looks ugly but if it works I don't care.
  I know that this all sounds a bit silly to someone like you who has been building for years but perhaps it might help. 

--Lidmotor

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #544 on: July 11, 2018, 08:35:03 PM »
   OK, well now I can see why the 20v 5w solar panel would blow these C1815 transistors. They are OK for voltages of up to 8v or so. When using the 100k base resistors, but only provide about 12v or 13v output at the collector emitter, which is not enough on my oscillator to see some wireless effects.

  I have set up some additional series connected 10k ohm resistors to see which number of them will provide the needed current to the base. That is after going through the 100k base resistor and crystal.
  So if the question is how much current should go to the transistor base, while using let's say 12v input. I don't know the answer, yet.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #544 on: July 11, 2018, 08:35:03 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #545 on: July 11, 2018, 09:15:57 PM »
Nick, 

I clearly described in my above post what voltages up to the C1815 could be OK and now I copy and paste the relevant text to here again:

"The 'rule of thumb' for such oscillators that have a coil in the collector is to use transistors rated for collector emitter voltages (VCEo) with at least 3 times higher ratings than the supply voltage applied. The VCEo for the 2SC1815 is specified as maximum 50 V, so 50/3= 16 V: so the supply voltge should be below 16V to be on the safe side."   

And now you simply deduced: "They are OK for voltages of up to 8v or so." 

I am simply clueless whether you understand what I write, sorry to say this. Or just negligence? Can you explain how the 8V came? 

Gyula


   OK, well now I can see why the 20v 5w solar panel would blow these C1815 transistors. They are OK for voltages of up to 8v or so. When using the 100k base resistors, but only provide about 12v or 13v output at the collector emitter, which is not enough on my oscillator to see some wireless effects.

  I have set up some additional series connected 10k ohm resistors to see which number of them will provide the needed current to the base. That is after going through the 100k base resistor and crystal.
  So if the question is how much current should go to the transistor base, while using let's say 12v input. I don't know the answer, yet.

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #546 on: July 11, 2018, 10:18:19 PM »
  Perhaps what makes me say so is the pile of dead C1815 that I have in front of me. Most died at 12v, using a base 100k resistor, or they become untouchable in one minute running time.
  I am running a input of 12v, the C1815 transistors are rated at 50v. And I'm using the recommended 100k resistor on the base.
It's suppose to work at those voltages. And, at times it does.
But, I've been looking for transistors that can handle more input, and to see which crystal provides for the highest output. So far it's about 14v output from the 7.2MHz, on my oscillator when running on 4v input, and about 30v output, at 12v input.
  Otherwise, all is fine at 4v input, the crystals all run perfectly at their rated frequency, and the transistor is cool, and does not blow.

  Yes, it's negligence. But, I'm looking for what works for me, and the parts that I have available at the moment. Not that easy to do.
   I hope that gives you a clue, as to if I understand you, or not. In any case, not to worry,  I'll get it going right, yet.   
   Maybe a Snickers Bar would do you well, also.  While I try to do better...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #546 on: July 11, 2018, 10:18:19 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #547 on: July 11, 2018, 11:45:44 PM »
Nick,

All I can suggest kindly is: acquire as much knowledge as you can by self education.

If you are looking for what works for you, then that is also okay but it is a hard way.
I really wish you good luck and very little number of bristles on your way.

I like Snickers Bars too.   8)

Gyula

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #548 on: July 12, 2018, 04:59:28 AM »
   It seams like the oscillator works to provide the output voltages, but I don't see any wireless at 8 volts input, and 12v cooks the transistor. I'll try a trim pot on the base next to see if I can run at higher voltages without blowing the transistors.
   I also made another L3 coil, with less turn of a little thicker wire, about 60 turns, so that I can remove some if needed.
It seams to work better than my previous L3, but still no wireless at 8v input. 8v is where the C1815 works, a bit hot, but not overheating. The 13.5MHz crystal provides for less output at 8v input (21v), than the 7.2MHz (at 27v), 12v input provides 38v output at the collector emitter. Yet, no wireless, or practically none.  Anybody else having the same situation???

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #548 on: July 12, 2018, 04:59:28 AM »
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Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #549 on: July 12, 2018, 12:19:14 PM »
Hmmm. increased the brightness by paralleling three 13.56 MHz crystal


Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #550 on: July 12, 2018, 01:26:26 PM »

Nick,

i would loose the 221 (220uH) choke in the supply line for now and replace it with a 1K resistor.

Then follow closely Gyula's comments in post #465 here:
https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/465/
It explains good what is happening in your circuit.


At 4V supply voltage your transistor is OK (warm only), so aim for the base current as given for this
4V supply voltage (0.04mA) when using 12V by increasing the base resistor.

Meaning; use a 12V / 0.04mA = 300K trimmer pot (or combo fixed/trimmer) to set this 0.04mA base current
at 12V supply voltage.

This 0.04mA base current will cause (in worse case with a hFE of 700) 28mA collector current only, preventing
your transistor to heat up.

If you have this stable, then tinker with the L3 coil and leds.
Not sure what you mean by "Yet, no wireless, or practically none".
What do you expect and how do you test this?

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #550 on: July 12, 2018, 01:26:26 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #551 on: July 12, 2018, 03:27:09 PM »
   Itsu: 
   I'm taking measures to add more base resistance.   I had already replaced the both the two previous chokes that I had tried on, with a 1k resistor, but that didn't change anything.   
  The oscillator worked all night long last night at 8v, it gets warm but not too hot, unlike at 12v.
    What do I mean by wireless?  Is this not suppose to be an "Exciter"? So far, I've seen no indication of that. Have you?
   I've been very busy at times, and may have missed some of the videos, and posts.
 
   I did make a new L3 yesterday, which works better, but the oscillator is still too weak for capacitive or wireless field effects.
   Most of the guys are still needing to use clip leads to obtain better light output? Is that the way it's suppose to work? As no one has shown much of an effect, with out the use of clip leads.
    But, why I get no wireless field effects, has been somewhat frustrating after all these days of trying.
    However, my goal is to learn (and educate) myself more about the cause of any possible OU effects, or possible future self running.  Not just weakly lit leds running on minimal power. But, studying about the cause of the "effect", is what I'm after.Dr. Stiffler did mention about the tapping of additional ambient energy, and also, over the possibility of self running
   For now, I'd like to be able to do what Lidmotor showed on one of his videos, running from a 9 volt battery, capacitively lighting a gutted 120v bulb. But, needing NO clip leads.

   

Offline Lidmotor

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #552 on: July 12, 2018, 07:01:32 PM »
Nick---I think this is my 9v battery video you are referring to where I show the wireless 'Exciter' effects using the crystal oscillator circuit.  There are no 'clip leads' attached but I am using a virtual ground on the led lightbulb array.  The leds on the stick operated in free space wirelessly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqsVQPLXi3E

As far as OU or any extreme efficiency I don't the have proper equipment to accurately measure that.  The circuit draws about 30-40mA on that 9v battery.  The 'L3' in this experiment is NOT a standard SEC L3  like I mentioned. It is made with 26ga instead of 24ga and is about 90 turns instead of 60. It is roughly the size of a AA battery.  It has 2 ohms of resistance and about 100uh of inductance.

erfandl--- I never thought about using multiple crystals to enhance the performance of the light output.  I will try that.

All--  I am going on a sailboat vacation for awhile and might take this crystal oscillator light with me to field test it.

---Lidmotor

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #553 on: July 13, 2018, 06:53:33 PM »
Lidmotor - I hope there are no fields around your boat ! if you see what I mean, stick to water. Have a good time and maybe you'll see UFO's around Catalina Island :)

Nick - An L3 off your output should show wireless effects if another same L3 is quite near to it, with an LED across its wires. 2x AV plug off the receiver coils wires works better. Doing that can really help to tune the L3's up if using a set 2 pin crystal...taking turns off from an original winding of 80 turns or similar.
Clip leads just extend the effects outward, but not the power delivery in terms of a gutted mains bulb brightness.
If L3's are matched using such a system, then they should also be able to go onward to PSEC type experiments. All being matched will resonate as per the Doc's video on the PSEC and may then bring a better chance of the self running.
That's my thinking anyway and a goal of this...I see what you're saying about frustrations but it is a slow process to match it all up.

All - i've tried the signal voltage booster linked below at length over the past couple of days and the output frequency from the AD9850 sig gen isn't boosting. Am using the older original adjustable power supply as its own power input, set at 15V. There's no increased output visually from LED's or coils and the signal has a lot of noise when looking on the scope.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Voltage-Amplifier/

Update:
A couple of scope shots. The wave output has cleaned up by using 470ohms/4.7K on the Collector section of the circuit diagram (in the link above).
But, even though the scope goes to a healthy 13.9V range automatically, the Vpp is seemingly nothing.
Without the circuit in line, the scope drops its relay based range setting to 5V.
First pic is of the output from the circuit when connected to the AD9850. The scope registers anywhere from 13.1MHz to 13.7MHz, shown here 'seeing' 13.1MHz
Second pic when connected to a 2 pin crystal circuit, running at 13.5225MHZ
« Last Edit: July 13, 2018, 09:04:52 PM by Slider2732 »

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #554 on: July 13, 2018, 10:16:52 PM »

Slider,

does it work when using a lower frequency crystal, like 3 or 4 MHz?
I had similar problems using a MOSFET driver ay 13.5MHz, it seemed not to be able to handle the frequency.
Not saying that the 2N3904 would not be able to handle that frequency, but probably something else in that
circuit, or the circuit itself.

Itsu

 

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