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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 83156 times)

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #435 on: July 02, 2018, 10:54:18 PM »
Very informative Itsu, thanks.
I've found that the several builds now of this sort of circuit have worked with 18pF to 30pF caps across the Emitter/Collector. Am not using a toroid such as you have, which I can only think of that would cause that difference.
Is there any chance it could be the permeability values of the toroid itself ?


Have done some adjusting and now am more familiar with the FFT function of the scope.
It's not to the point yet of measuring the actual frequency harmonics, but they are much more visible and their positions can be better assessed.
In this example shot, am looking at the output of a 10MHz crystal. The peaks of 10MHz,  20MHz, 40MHz and 50MHz can be seen, with 30MHz not as prominent.

Gyula - 4 pin crystal, but meaning to draw comparison to a frequency locked in by a crystal, rather than a free running circuit.
 

 

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #435 on: July 02, 2018, 10:54:18 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #436 on: July 02, 2018, 11:39:54 PM »
Hi Itsu,

Thanks for the video and all your efforts.

From your earlier posts I understood (maybe I misunderstood) the 40 MHz appears only when the 5 kOhm trimmer pot reduces the 12V supply voltage to the oscillator, you did not write that you set the variable cap towards its minimum value. Now you showed you detuned the toroidal tank with the 6 to 60 pF variable capacitor and I assume the 40 MHz operation occured when you detuned the tank also yesterday, right?

The explanation for the 40 MHz operation is this: When there is no resonant collector impedance at 13.5 MHz because the tank is detuned from 13.5 MHz towards the higher frequencies, then the transistor simply cannot amplify high enough at the base frequency any more but it can amplify with enough gain near the 3rd harmonic because the tank impedance has become higher somewhere in the 25-40 MHz range the 6-8 pF variable cap set its resonance, so the crystal jumped to overtone mode. This is all. We can step over this 'issue'.

I think the many harmonics appear because probably the tap is not so good for the transistor operational point when reduced supply voltage feeds the collector. For the BC337-40 probably a higher than 100 kOhm base resistor would be better, think of the base current calculation. But no need to deal with this because:

I think now if you wish to continue tinkering with this circuit, a better transistor type should be obtained.  Then it could be mounted on a heat sink if needed and will not blow from the higher peak collector voltages either. 

Thanks,  Gyula

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #437 on: July 03, 2018, 12:37:13 AM »
Very informative Itsu, thanks.
I've found that the several builds now of this sort of circuit have worked with 18pF to 30pF caps across the Emitter/Collector. Am not using a toroid such as you have, which I can only think of that would cause that difference.
Is there any chance it could be the permeability values of the toroid itself ?


Have done some adjusting and now am more familiar with the FFT function of the scope.
It's not to the point yet of measuring the actual frequency harmonics, but they are much more visible and their positions can be better assessed.
In this example shot, am looking at the output of a 10MHz crystal. The peaks of 10MHz,  20MHz, 40MHz and 50MHz can be seen, with 30MHz not as prominent.

Gyula - 4 pin crystal, but meaning to draw comparison to a frequency locked in by a crystal, rather than a free running circuit.
Excellent. Now you can use the scope's Cursors in manual mode to get the precise frequencies of the peaks in the FFT.

I'm glad people are going beyond the basics in their use of this nice little oscilloscope. The FFT function isn't particularly easy to use, it takes some fiddling to get an interpretable display, and of course it's nowhere near as capable as a stand-alone Spectrum Analyzer, but it's not too bad for a basic FFT.  And it's amazing that this function is available at all in these low-cost scopes.


Demo 1054z screen showing cursors measuring frequency and attenuation of harmonics on FFT of a 1 kHz square wave input:

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #437 on: July 03, 2018, 12:37:13 AM »
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Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #438 on: July 03, 2018, 01:07:34 AM »
TK - Am glad to see your input on this.
Yes indeed, that's the next step, to use the cursors.
One thing i've been able to do, is to notice that the better the winding of a coil, the better the main output peak.
A 13.5225MHz crystal will show the main peak at twice the amplitude of any others, with coils intentionally wound for that frequency area. Put a 10MHz coil on and it may work ok, especially with a piece of ferrite, but the harmonics away from the crystal frequency will be much stronger. 
Also, the better the winding and closer to the frequency of a crystal, the less need there is for any ferrite in that coil. Looking at the screen and adjusting turns for less and less harmonics content, I just got a coil to work the best of any on a Dollar Tree bulb, with no ferrite.
It's very useful :)


Update: Using the peaks reduction method for tuning on the scope, i've got a coil now that doesn't need ferrite and, in fact, ferrite diminishes output brightness of the attached Dollar Tree bulb.
Best results so far are by connecting the L3 to an AV plug, cliplead to the aluminium back.
The brightness might not be anything special, but it's a lot better than previous versions or coils on this bench here. Also no heatsink required, just a cliplead.
Am hoping to further improve with this FFT malarky....the coil is 74 turns of 30AWG on a solder tube.
Crystal is 13.5225 MHz  :)

« Last Edit: July 03, 2018, 04:12:25 AM by Slider2732 »

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #439 on: July 03, 2018, 06:26:46 AM »
Simple Tesla coil L1 Pri 1mhry with L2 3 turns 0.4uh, with NE555 driving with very narrow pulse drive from current driver and FET at 60khz
Tesla coil is not in any kind of resonance at all. Led display is verry bright with pencil earth to garden earth.

AG

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #439 on: July 03, 2018, 06:26:46 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #440 on: July 03, 2018, 06:45:46 AM »
  Slider:   It is as I had suspected, that once the oscillator is working properly, there is no need for the clip lead, aluminum blocks, or touching the device, etz... And adding ferrite at that point only takes the frequency off of the right sweet spot. As needing those things really only proves that the device is NOT running at the right working frequency. And the use of those things only helps to partially compensate when running at an incorrect or off frequency. But, the best thing is to be spot on, as from the looks of the light coming off of your leds, Slider, they still look pretty dim. No offense meant.
   I'm still having a hard time with this project. My running frequency is at 60Hz, now, no matter what I do. I can change most every component, and still only see it running at 60Hz. I still have not found the reason for this.  And whats worse is that now, the oscillator won't kick on, at all. But, the scope is reading 60Hz, and if I touch the transistor like on the base, or the end of the L3 the voltage goes to several hundred volts, yet an led on a diode loop won't light. WTF!!! 

  As Gyula is our wizard here, I would like to ask for help. Yes, more help, that is.
  What seams to bring the device out of the closet, is touching certain parts, as it seams to need a return ground connection, or more capacitance.  Or... who knows what.
   If you guys are still needing to use a clip lead to see the led "take off", that only proves that you are not running it at the right frequency. As the Doc does not need to use a clip lead to see some results, at least not now, although the diode loop may work similar be a sort of clip lead, as well.

   I suggest you really replicate what the Doc is showing, otherwise you'll just get side tracked onto making a JT, or a normal exciter, with no OU, or anything else of interest, here. Which is NOT the point.  The point of this venture is to tap the aether, or the surrounding ambient energy available, or whatever you want to call it. And to see some positive OU results, or possibly even self running, from an anomaly of sorts. As well as to learn what it takes to get there.  Not just partially lighting some leds off of a battery, on a just a few mAs. As fun as that may be...

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #441 on: July 03, 2018, 10:17:16 AM »
Hi Itsu,

Thanks for the video and all your efforts.

From your earlier posts I understood (maybe I misunderstood) the 40 MHz appears only when the 5 kOhm trimmer pot reduces the 12V supply voltage to the oscillator, you did not write that you set the variable cap towards its minimum value. Now you showed you detuned the toroidal tank with the 6 to 60 pF variable capacitor and I assume the 40 MHz operation occured when you detuned the tank also yesterday, right?

The explanation for the 40 MHz operation is this: When there is no resonant collector impedance at 13.5 MHz because the tank is detuned from 13.5 MHz towards the higher frequencies, then the transistor simply cannot amplify high enough at the base frequency any more but it can amplify with enough gain near the 3rd harmonic because the tank impedance has become higher somewhere in the 25-40 MHz range the 6-8 pF variable cap set its resonance, so the crystal jumped to overtone mode. This is all. We can step over this 'issue'.

I think the many harmonics appear because probably the tap is not so good for the transistor operational point when reduced supply voltage feeds the collector. For the BC337-40 probably a higher than 100 kOhm base resistor would be better, think of the base current calculation. But no need to deal with this because:

I think now if you wish to continue tinkering with this circuit, a better transistor type should be obtained.  Then it could be mounted on a heat sink if needed and will not blow from the higher peak collector voltages either. 

Thanks,  Gyula

Gyula,

you did not misunderstood, it was (is) the case that by setting the 5K pot to minimum (0 Ohm), or omit this
pot then the oscillator went into 3th harmonics operation, without touching the variable cap, but this was
without the virtual ground cliplead.

For video purposes i also rearranged (cleaned up) the circuit which also seem to have some influence on its
operation, so i am sorry for the confusion.

So yes, in the video the 40MHz operation occured when detuning the tank.
With the virtual ground, i cannot set the 5K pot to minimum nor can i direct attach the 12V supply
to the circuit as it will blow the transistor, but when i remove the cliplead and retune the thing it
probably behaves again like before (going into 3th harmonics at full supply voltage without retuning the
variable cap).

I can try that again if you like, but i think you are right and i need to go for a better transistor.
I will order some as i was not able to locate any suitable one on my circuit board pile.

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #441 on: July 03, 2018, 10:17:16 AM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #442 on: July 03, 2018, 10:23:25 AM »

Slider,

yes the FFT function is a valuable asset of a scope, but it need some learning curve to use it and its
different to manage on each scope.

It surely shows nicely the harmonics of the signal that you look at FFT wise and can be used to aim for
a clean signal (all or most power into the base frequency).

Itsu

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #443 on: July 03, 2018, 12:49:01 PM »
Hi Itsu,

I think it would be better to obtain suitable transistors first. Similar to the types I gave examples earlier, maybe you can locate them near to you, not just at mouser.com  The goal is at least 80-100V or higher collector voltage rating and higher than 140 - 150 hFE and at least 0.5 A collector current rating.

Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #443 on: July 03, 2018, 12:49:01 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #444 on: July 03, 2018, 12:54:16 PM »
Simple Tesla coil L1 Pri 1mhry with L2 3 turns 0.4uh, with NE555 driving with very narrow pulse drive from current driver and FET at 60khz
Tesla coil is not in any kind of resonance at all. Led display is verry bright with pencil earth to garden earth.

AG
Hi AG,
Just a curious question: how do you know that one of the harmonics of the narrow 60 kHz pulses do not just hit coil resonance?   
IF you could change the 60 kHz frequency by a potmeter at the NE555 and sweep up and down say 20 - 30 kHz and see the change in brightness, that would be a good test for that.   OR you may have done so?   8)

I think though that your aim was mainly to show an increase in brightness when a kind of ground is introduced to the bottom of the load which is fed from the top of the coil.

Thanks,   Gyula

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #445 on: July 03, 2018, 01:59:39 PM »
Hi AG,
Just a curious question: how do you know that one of the harmonics of the narrow 60 kHz pulses do not just hit coil resonance?   
IF you could change the 60 kHz frequency by a potmeter at the NE555 and sweep up and down say 20 - 30 kHz and see the change in brightness, that would be a good test for that.   OR you may have done so?   8)

I think though that your aim was mainly to show an increase in brightness when a kind of ground is introduced to the bottom of the load which is fed from the top of the coil.

Thanks,   Gyula
The mini Tesla coil resonance 1.2 mhz it's 8hz, so is 60khz but some peeks along the line will be higher than others. The NE555 can only go so
far, with the spike width i'm using, the charge discharge is split with RC and controlled with diode steering two presets.

The idea might be better suited if the wingdings (wire length) was tuned to say 1/8 wave i/4 wave ect and use a higher narrow voltage spike lest wast.

Gyula is that it, the pulse width harvesting all the harmonic energy ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #445 on: July 03, 2018, 01:59:39 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #446 on: July 03, 2018, 02:29:30 PM »
Hi AG,
If your coil has a self resonance at 1.2 MHz, then a 60 kHz narrow pulse can excite it with the 20th harmonic.  All I meant to vary the frequency of the NE555 timer, if it cannot go higher than 60 kHz, then it can go below 60 kHz, just to verify for yourself that the coil works or does not work at its resonant frequency, driven by a subharmonic pulse... 

And what has 8 Hz got to do with this all, I wonder?


The mini Tesla coil resonance 1.2 mhz it's 8hz, so is 60khz but some peeks along the line will be higher than others. The NE555 can only go so
far, with the spike width i'm using.

The idea might be better suited if the wingdings (wire length) was tuned to say 1/8 wave i/4 wave ect and use a higher narrow voltage spike lest wast.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #447 on: July 03, 2018, 02:40:31 PM »

...
Gyula is that it, the pulse width harvesting all the harmonic energy ?
Yes I think so. A rectangular and narrow pulse is full of harmonics.  and the 20th or the 19th or the 21th (or whichever nearby) harmonic is amplified by the relatively high Q of the coil, even if it is top loaded by the LED.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #448 on: July 03, 2018, 03:19:09 PM »
Hi Nick,

Your oscillator is surely not working at 60 Hz, the coil and the wires just pick up the stray field of the mains, from the house (or street) mains wiring.  When you touch wires, components pins and see 60 Hz amplitude increase on the scope your body surface which is merged in the 60 Hz field is added to the pick-up wiring of your setup,
The culprit in crystal oscillators is the transistor, this is the first to choose correctly, I wrote about this. The next component is the crystal but you have two of them now so its is unlikely that both are faulty. 

I suggest the following: remove the crystal from the oscillator.  Switch on the supply voltage to the circuit
Then drive the base of the transistor from your function generator set to its highest 2 MHz output frequency, but the amplitude should be only say 20 mV peak to peak, measured across the base and the negative rail.
You can adjust the 20 mVpp first by checking it on your oscilloscope. The generator output can drive the base via a 100 nF capacitor, the generator ground connection can be directly connected to the negative rail i.e. to the emitter, ok?

Now check the collector waveform, how it resembles to or differs from the 20 mVpp input sine wave?  Connect the scope ground clip also to the negative rail and the input clip directly to the transistor collector, use DC coupling for that scope channel.
If your choke coil in the collector indeed has 1000 uH or around that inductance, then it still can surely represent a decent AC impedance to the collector so you must see a much higher than 20 mVpp waveform.  This would mean the transistor is able to amplify at least at 2 MHz. IF you measure say 4.4 Vpp on the collector, then your amplifier can amplify 4400 mVpp / 20 mVpp = 220 times.
Sorry to give you such "home work" but this method could check your setup at least at 2 MHz how it behaves as an amplifier, a fundamental building block needed for an oscillator.

Of course, just check the total DC current your transistor draws from your battery or (power supply) you use for feeding it (I still mean when crystal is removed). 

If you do not get something from what I wrote above,  please ask. 

Gyula

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #449 on: July 03, 2018, 04:53:47 PM »
  Ok, thanks again Gyula.
   I did some changes to the circuit, as it won't fire up. First off, I changed the 1815 transistor back to the 2sc5200, as that one was working previously. I also removed the big AC choke and filter cap, and just left the 0.1uf.
  I installed a plug for the crystal, to be able to change them. And I'm now running the input from a 5watt solar panel, with about 20v.
  The 60Hz is due to my bare feet on tiled floor. Which I'm aware of. So, I isolated the circuit from any stray AC capacitive influences, also. And lift my feet off of the floor when testing, holding my breath to see if the circuit works. But, it doesn't. And I started turning blue.  However, I think that I see where the problem is, now. So, I'll take care of that, and report back.
   Thanks again,                          NickZ
 

 

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