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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 43095 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #630 on: July 21, 2018, 03:12:13 PM »

Quote
Hi Itsu,

I may have sounded a bit unpolite by mentioning quickly the choke coil in the collector while you used the 1 k resistor, sorry for this. I only wanted to indicate the current decrease with the increasing number of paralleled xtals would be more pronounced when a choke coil is in the collector, a resistor limits both the AC and DC currents while a coil limits mainly the AC current.
Anyway, it remains to be figured out why the input DC current reduces and the output RF power increases when the number of xtals is increased in this oscillator.

Gyula

Gyula,

no problem, i am not that easily offended, i was already looking for a 1mH choke with which i can redo the tests.

Could it not be that with more parallel crystals the Q goes up resulting in a higher output (but
smaller peak) and stronger dip in current at resonance?

I will check that tonight with the choke and my SA.

Itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #630 on: July 21, 2018, 03:12:13 PM »

Online NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #631 on: July 21, 2018, 06:03:08 PM »
Gyula,

no problem, i am not that easily offended, i was already looking for a 1mH choke with which i can redo the tests.

Could it not be that with more parallel crystals the Q goes up resulting in a higher output (but
smaller peak) and stronger dip in current at resonance?

I will check that tonight with the choke and my SA.

Itsu

   Itsu: 
   I think that is the case...   
   The more current the circuit can output, the amplitude goes drops.
   Using the 1k resistor can hog up a lot of juice. And is the reason that the voltage can be upped. But, my little C1815 still gets hot at 12v though, and too hot at 15v, on up.  But, I'll try the carbon 1k next, as I don't have a 1000uH choke on hand.   
   
   
   Here is an interesting video. Placing a magnet on the coil, and using no current to light a super bright LED bulb.   
   This may have some connection to the Doc's ideas,  maybe.    https://youtu.be/ZKjj4x9zhvs

Offline mikrovolt

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #632 on: July 21, 2018, 07:57:29 PM »
I call it spike maker another wave shaping circuit. Almost has two states.
The voltage spike has very low current can induce some local resonance.
I liken the spike to a small hammer. efficient at ringing but does not yield much light.
The 50% sine does work, the magnetic component is coherent. Good for increasing brightness.

In a two transistor oscillator where wave shaping is needed we get involved in network
of matching impedance (winding impedance matching transformers) when we add a second stage
is done to accomplish gain. In the bigger picture we look at various systems of feed back loops
and coupling mechanisms that are efficient at transferring power.

When we build the variety using SRF the circuit are sensitive, requiring more patience and finesse.
It does not take much to shift these circuits into a different state so it can be difficult to get them to run at first.

In a three coil system, coils use peak resonance but also SRF. The two coils set parallel the third perpendicular.
Question might be, if coils resonate at a particular frequency what is the SRF frequency good for?


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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #632 on: July 21, 2018, 07:57:29 PM »
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Online NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #633 on: July 21, 2018, 08:54:51 PM »
   Here is a scope shot of my oscillator running on a 7.2MHz crystal, on 15v.  This crystal shows the highest amplitude, but not necessarlly the best wireless effects. The wireless effects on the multi led board is going out about three inches away from the L3.
   
   Gyula: On the oscillator, you will now notice the 68ohm resistor between the 221 choke, and the transistor collector.
Yet, that resistor is not doing much to control the transistor overheating at over 15v.
   A 1k resistor works better towards heat control at higher voltages, but providing for less output to the bulbs. Catch 22.     I'll be going to a higher voltage transistor, next, as the C1815 seams to be the bottle neck.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #634 on: July 21, 2018, 09:05:23 PM »
...   
   Here is an interesting video. Placing a magnet on the coil, and using no current to light a super bright LED bulb.   
   This may have some connection to the Doc's ideas,  maybe.    https://youtu.be/ZKjj4x9zhvs
Nick,

As I watch the video you gave the link to, my impression is the magnet (when he approaches it to the reed coil) just
stops the oscillator, no? 
When the magnet is sitting on the table away from the circuit, the oscillator starts as he cranks up input voltage to
around 2.1 V and then he sets it to 3.2 V to have a nice brightness (through the magnifying lense top of the LED)
at 2.15 mA input current, the permanent magnet has no role during this time.
Then he approaches the magnet to the reed switch and the strong field stops the mechanically oscillating reed
contacts (quasi 'glued' them together) which so far interrupted the input current and the reed coil resistance took
the 11.9 mA current without interruption. The reed contacts were the Normally Closed type he used and the magnetic
field of the coil at any switch-on time made them OFF.
Would like to show you another oscillator from him, see here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I24nDi_q-EU 
This setup does need the close presence of a permanent magnet to start and maintain oscillations. Here he uses
the Normally Off contacts of the reed switch and the presence of the weak and static permanent magnet field is
which forces the contacts to close the battery circuit (schematic is in the upper right corner at the ened of the video).
And when the input current suddenly creates its field in the coil, it should be stronger than the weak static field and
the contacts open,  so coil flux collapses and the static field can close the contacts again.
Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #634 on: July 21, 2018, 09:05:23 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #635 on: July 21, 2018, 09:23:04 PM »

5 crystal test done with a 1mH (102) choke instead of the 1K resistor in the supply line (12.5V).

First set with the base resistor set at 100K:
 
nbr of x-tals    output voltage (Vpp)    input current (mA)
1                    32.2                            14.6
2                    33.7                            13
3                    34.2                            12   
4                    33.9                            12.5
5                    33.8                            12.1

Then with base resistor set at 60mA input current with 1 crystal = 23K:

nbr of x-tals    output voltage (Vpp)    input current (mA)
1                    39                               60
2                    41.4                            44
3                    42.8                            37.8
4                    38.9                            54
5                    39.5                            49.6


So there seems to be a turning point after the 3th crystal.

I also tried with even lower base resistance (>100mA input current), but things got unstable and
heated up the transistor, trimmer pot and even the crystals.
The leds on the last test where very very dimly on.

The SA did not show any change in main peak (13.56MHz) bandwidth, the Occupied BandWidth (OBW) measurement shows 66.666% for all 5 settings (1 to 5 crystals)

Itsu

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #636 on: July 21, 2018, 09:33:36 PM »
Nick,
Well, at 15 V supply voltage the series resistor in the collector should be in the some hundred Ohms range at least
but as I wrote in Reply #589 its actual value depends strongly on the actual input current  the oscillator takes from
a higher supply voltage.
What is the input current now from 15 V and you find the transistor overheats with the series 68 Ohm?
 Did you measure it and calculated the dissipation and confronted it with the 400 mW allowed ?? 
(this 400mW already makes it pretty warm and valid for 25 degree ambient room temp)
IT would have been enough for me if you simply described in a few words where you had placed that series resistor
back then, no need for showing where it is now. 
Thanks for the pictures 
Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #636 on: July 21, 2018, 09:33:36 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #637 on: July 21, 2018, 10:01:02 PM »
Hi Itsu,

Very interesting and quasi unexpected results for sure, thanks.

With your pF meter would you check the capacitance of the 5 paralleled xtals, please? 
(not in the circuit board but separately from any circuit, maybe using clips to keep the wire legs together,
and do not solder them)

You wrote:  "Could it not be that with more parallel crystals the Q goes up resulting in a higher output
(but smaller peak) and stronger dip in current at resonance?"

Well, the increase of the Q for the parallel xtals as a result may be possible, I can accept that. But I cannot see yet
how this higher Q has influence to invoke higher output? The xtals are not in the output side but between the 'input'
and output points of the active device, right? This way the high Q cannot increase output voltage (power)
while input current decreases.  If we placed a full LC tank in the collector and could increase its Q somehow,
then you were right with the stronger dip in (collector) current at resonance, I would agree.
I do not get what you meant with ("but smaller peak") ?   

I will return to this later, maybe tomorrow.

Thanks,
Gyula

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #638 on: July 21, 2018, 10:32:24 PM »

Gyula,

with "but smaller peak" i mean smaller bandwidth, so higher Q, smaller bandwidth, higher output.

But i agree with what you say about "The xtals are not in the output side but".


I measured the 5 crystals with my LCR meter and the values are:

1 =   5pF
2 =   8pF
3 =  11pF
4 =  15pF
5 =  18pF 

So about 3pF parallel capacitance each.

Itsu

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #638 on: July 21, 2018, 10:32:24 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #639 on: July 22, 2018, 05:33:25 AM »
Why not try crystals of _different_ frequencies in the parallel stack? The spectrum analyzer display should be interesting....

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #640 on: July 22, 2018, 08:23:17 AM »
Hi Erfandl,
Thanks for the Lux meter screenshots, they nicely show the higher light outputs as you placed 2 and 3 crystals in parallel.

Okay on your boost converter has 24 V DC output, and its input receives the 3.7 V battery.
Now please explain where is the 3.4 mA current measured you mentioned in your earlier post above? Or was it 34 mA?

I understand that the current input to the oscillator reduces when you use 3 crystals (from 28.4 mA to 23.1 mA):  did you use the 24 V DC from the boost converter back then?

Thanks,
Gyula
sorry for the battery current. the battery current today I testing is 228 mAh. now I using 5 crystal, output current is 20 mAh and brightness output is 10150 LUX.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #640 on: July 22, 2018, 08:23:17 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #641 on: July 22, 2018, 10:45:35 AM »
Why not try crystals of _different_ frequencies in the parallel stack? The spectrum analyzer display should be interesting....
Yes, this would be a good next step in exploring this.  I think the oscillator will become and function
as an RF mixer too. 
Provided the second crystal is willing to oscillate too, in parallel with the 13.56 MHz,   that is...   8)
You may happen to have crystals with say a few MHz less frequency than 13.56 MHz.
 And for a start, just use a single 13.56 MHz and another single crystal only, say with having a lower frequency.
Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #642 on: July 22, 2018, 10:56:00 AM »
sorry for the battery current. the battery current today I testing is 228 mAh. now I using 5 crystal, output current
is 20 mAh and brightness output is 10150 LUX.
Dear Erfandl,
Sorry for nagging you with these current values,  I thought if you report results, then the data should be written correctly
what your meters really show, this is all, no offense intended. 

Thanks for these new current values.  Would like to ask that the 20 mA current you mention now is taken from
your booster converter, right? 

Was the converter output voltage set to 24 V ?
 And please do not use mAh for current it should be mA only.   mAh is for good for battery capacity.   

Thanks for all your kind efforts.
Gyula

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #643 on: July 22, 2018, 11:01:28 AM »
Dear Erfandl,
Sorry for nagging you with these current values,  I thought if you report results, then the data should be written correctly
what your meters really show, this is all, no offense intended. 

Thanks for these new current values.  Would like to ask that the 20 mA current you mention now is taken fromyour booster converter, right? 
Was the converter output voltage set to 24 V ?
 And please do not use mAh for current it should be mA only.   mAh is for good for battery capacity.   

Thanks for all your kind efforts.
Gyula
Yes. The current output from boost converter is 20 mA and boost converter output voltage is 24 volt.
Your welcome Gyula :X

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #644 on: July 22, 2018, 11:06:10 AM »
Okay Erfandl, thanks. 

Notice:  if the current taken from the 3.7 V battery is 228 mA, then power used is 843 mW.             

             Power taken from the converter output is 24 V x 20 mA= 480 mW  Compare the two...

 

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