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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 62439 times)

Online NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #600 on: July 17, 2018, 04:29:08 PM »
   Slider:   Today I'll be picking up two different DC to DC step up converters. So we'll see how their outputs compares to your converter, as far as signal noise goes.

   I found the problem with not having wireless effects. It was just a bad diode in the loop used on the leds bulb. Now it works, and has a near field effect, although somewhat limited in gain.
   I also can light the 10 led bulb by capacitance, which was what I could not do before.
   So, in moving forward with this project I will be using a higher powered transistor that can handle the 35v that the converters can provide.
   Gyula:  I placed a resistor on the input to the oscillator circuit, in line with the 220 choke that is connected to the transistor. And now the circuit works (all night long), and does not overheat the transistor. However, the output gain is restricted, as compared to before the resistor was placed. That was to be expected, as any resistor is going to lessen the output by wasting the tiny bit of input juice, as heat. I haven't finished with these tests yet, once I do I'll let you know just what value resistor works best at what voltage levels.  But, I need the DC to DC converters for those tests.
   I also added a puffer cap of 47uf 100v, across the diode loop that's on the led board.  It does helps to brighten things up a bit.
   The best way to go for varying loads, is with a controllable trim pot on the base, and on the transistor's control/emitter, also.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #600 on: July 17, 2018, 04:29:08 PM »

Offline shylo

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #601 on: July 17, 2018, 04:40:14 PM »
Slider,
So the two positive diodes coming off the leads of the 75 turn coil (paralleled) are connected to the negative of the LED?Which is only connected to one end of the floral wire?Sorry just a little confused.Thanks artv

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #602 on: July 17, 2018, 06:42:36 PM »
Gyula - Many thanks for the tips.
Will try the 9V battery and look into the exact terminations. All I usually see is 'into a 50ohm load' and have no real idea how the load can be exactly terminated in that way. It's all new, apologies for that.

TK - OMG, as they say, yes of course. The scope is usually over at the usual bench, but I tend to move it to the far cleaner table for vids etc. The usual scope lead was over at the other bench, so I grabbed another and...didn't check whether it was on 1x or 10x
:)

All - Found something of possible interest, which I would have thought would have reared as a fault or feature, but haven't seen it mentioned. The Dr. Stiffler type L3, with 2x AV plugs, an LED and length of floral wire can be used as a tester for mains wiring continuity.
The circuit is shown in the video and there is a positive reaction with wood, believe it or not. Maybe it's because of the humidity here in Oklahoma, but the thing has some very strange properties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4hCiUUcZ18
Hi slider. Thanks for sharing video. I think if you using germanium diodes like 1N60 or AA119 get better result.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #602 on: July 17, 2018, 06:42:36 PM »
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Online gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #603 on: July 18, 2018, 12:07:51 AM »
Hi Itsu,

Regarding your differential voltage measurement across the middle coil in Reply #590: the waveforms are quasi identical, the 1 V difference is very small with respect to the 43-44 Vpp amplitudes. I believe the small decrease in brightness you notice due to the probes connection may happen because the differential probe capacitance may detune the middle coil. 
I cannot guess why the Math trace goes negative, a crazy idea would say: flip the AV diodes polarity going to the middle coil and see then whether it changes to positive or remains negative?
Regarding your 1 Ohm csr measurements (when run from the oscillator) and also with swapping the output and input coils (when run from the FG): it comes that my thought to blame the small difference in input and output coils inductance would not explain the around 5 V change on the 1 Ohm when you remove or attach the output coil/LED combo. I still think though that the answer may still inherently be in the tuning of the coils, perhaps try to use a small piece of powdered iron RF core and approach it to each coil to reduce their own resonance and see any change in the 5 V issue. Of course, when you have time and the mood because this is not so important at this time and maybe it will not be. But it is still good the Math output value does not change when removing the 3rd coil/LED combo.   Thanks for all your efforts.
Gyula

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Online gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #604 on: July 18, 2018, 12:29:40 AM »
Hi TinselKoala,  thanks for the info on the 3 V amplitude test signal for this scope type. A 30 Vpp amplitude would have no sense.

Hi Slider,

I did some search and came up with a approximate schematic on the output circuit of the AD9850 chip, you can see it as the last picture in the vertical picture icons on the  left side at the seller Amazon site:https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-AD9850-Generator-0-40MHz-Equipment/dp/B01J7XPWNU/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1531858422&sr=8-2&keywords=hiletgo+dds+ad9850+signal+generator+module 
So it turns out there has to be at least one 200 Ohm chip resistor on Pin 20 or 21 to the negative ground and a second 200 Ohm chip resistor directly across the sinewave RF output also to the ground.

Switch off the supply voltages and measure with an Ohm meter across this output, you may find either around 100 Ohm value or around 200 Ohm value.  For the 100 Ohm case the two 200 Ohms are in place these terminate the output and the input of a low pass filter you see in the schematic I refer to above (the input of the filter is driven from Pin 20 or 21 which are the outputs of the Digital to Analog converters).  If you find around 200 Ohm across the sinewave output then this output is probaly not terminated by 200 Ohm internally, in this case your generatour output impedance is around 200 Ohm and you need to use a 200 Ohm chip resistor to terminate it if your desire is to flatten the output amplitude response you objected in the board test video.  Of course the use of the 200 Ohm termination involves halving the output voltage amplitude as is always the case with generator outputs when they are terminated by their own internal impedance (resistance).   
This is shortly for you...  8)

Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #604 on: July 18, 2018, 12:29:40 AM »
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Online gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #605 on: July 18, 2018, 12:32:18 AM »
Hi gyula. thanks for reply. can you draw Pi filter circuit ? I cant understand how to build the Pi filter. thanks
Sure, here it is.  It shows the place for inserting an Ampermeter too.

Online gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #606 on: July 18, 2018, 12:40:53 AM »
Hi Nick,
Okay and yes the price for less heat comes with some decrease in output amplitude, this is why I wrote temporary solution, not to kill more transistors yet doing some more tinkerings.When you get transistors like BD243C or similar with higher power dissipation ratings, they still should be protected against excess heat by mounting them on heat sink.
Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #606 on: July 18, 2018, 12:40:53 AM »
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Online NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #607 on: July 18, 2018, 03:44:48 AM »
     Gyula:
   Yes, well I had my oscillator all set up for using a 2SC5200 transistor (250v, or so) with heat sink, but somehow it was not working. And although it was fairly new and not used hardly, but, it was burnt out, somehow.   I'll be getting the right best transistor for this crystal rig, once I know which is the best bet.
I've been trying out and deep frying some of the transistors that I have on hand, first. As always...
I did add a 47uf (not pf), 100v capacitor onto the diode loop, at the led bulbs. And it did add a bit more gain to the light output levels.  It's nice to have a holder for the transistors, along with a holder for the crystal, for easy replacing or testing, along with a heat sink and fan for the transistors, if needed.
And it probably will be needed...
   So, I picked up my two DC to DC converters today. And made a video while testing one of them out, ( link below). 
 The converter is turned all the way down, as I need to add some more resistance to the base circuit. So that I can run the booster at higher voltages, and/or from my small 5 watt, 12v, (more like 22v, open circuit) solar panel. The booster will go to 55v, or so, but, my transistor may not.
   Anyways, one thing at a time...  Todays, tests:  https://youtu.be/8A79fK7Tg5k

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #608 on: July 18, 2018, 03:34:20 PM »
Sure, here it is.  It shows the place for inserting an Ampermeter too.
thanks Gyula. I build the Pi filter circuit and testing the crystal current. with one crystal current is 28.41 mA and with three crystal current is 23.12 mAh also light output increased with three crystal ! the L3 coil now working without ferrite rod !
DC DC boost converter pull 3.4 mA from battery !!!



« Last Edit: July 18, 2018, 05:54:39 PM by erfandl »

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #608 on: July 18, 2018, 03:34:20 PM »
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Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #609 on: July 18, 2018, 09:46:38 PM »
Hi Itsu,

Regarding your differential voltage measurement across the middle coil in Reply #590: the waveforms are quasi identical, the 1 V difference is very small with respect to the 43-44 Vpp amplitudes. I believe the small decrease in brightness you notice due to the probes connection may happen because the differential probe capacitance may detune the middle coil. 
I cannot guess why the Math trace goes negative, a crazy idea would say: flip the AV diodes polarity going to the middle coil and see then whether it changes to positive or remains negative?
Regarding your 1 Ohm csr measurements (when run from the oscillator) and also with swapping the output and input coils (when run from the FG): it comes that my thought to blame the small difference in input and output coils inductance would not explain the around 5 V change on the 1 Ohm when you remove or attach the output coil/LED combo. I still think though that the answer may still inherently be in the tuning of the coils, perhaps try to use a small piece of powdered iron RF core and approach it to each coil to reduce their own resonance and see any change in the 5 V issue. Of course, when you have time and the mood because this is not so important at this time and maybe it will not be. But it is still good the Math output value does not change when removing the 3rd coil/LED combo.   Thanks for all your efforts.
Gyula

Gyula,

i don't think i will do much more investigations on this positive/negative Math outcome as i have been fooled before with these type of open/floating systems.

The scope and FG are not designed to do measurements this way, so the results are unpredictical and unreliable.

I will be waiting for further updates from the Dr. Stiffler channel if any.

Thanks for all your input and efforts to help us.



I did use my oscillator driving again the capacitively coupled ledstrip but now with up to 3 crystals like erfandl did.

I does show that when inserting extra crystals the output stays the same but the input current goes down, but only with a very limited value, like 60mA to 58mA to 57mA.

Probably my tank circuit setup behaves differently in that respect.

Regards Itsu 


Online gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #610 on: July 18, 2018, 10:15:18 PM »
Nick,

You can prevent frying your transistors in advance.  For the types you have on hand, first look up each in the data sheet for power dissipation, PD, collector current IC and collector-emitter breakdown voltage VCEo.   And you need a heat_sink_mountable casing style too.  If you find PD is higher than 1-2 Watts, IC is at least 0.5A or higher and VCEo is higher than 100 V, then your devices will not fry at the very first switch-on moments due to overvoltage breakdown or little later due to getting hot.  The parameter hFE is the higher the better,  preferably be higher than 100.

If you plan to run such oscillators from supply voltages higher than  say 35-40V, then you would need at least 150 V rated VCEo
transistors or rather 200 V rated or higher when you crank up the converter to the max 55 V. 

Thanks for showing the video, you have made good progress and surely gained more practice to light that LED board just by the very loose capacitive coupling. You may test whether the use of the green clip lead from the AV plug diodes could be eliminated by connecting the same point of the diodes to the negative (or positive) supply rail via a short piece of wire.
First the brightness may not be the same like with the clip lead wire but in this case you could use a trimmer or variable capacitor between the LED board back plate and the free end of your air core coil, maybe the earlier brightness could be restored by that (or maybe not, only tests can give answer).Okay on the use of the 47 uF electrolytic capacitor across the LED board wire outputs.  Probably the brightness will not change much when you try to measure the DC voltage across that capacitor by your voltmeter, it is good to know the DC voltage the LED board and the 2 diodes develop from the RF capacitive coupling.

I made a snapshop from your video on the circuit board. You mentioned to put in a resistor you think was less than a 100 Ohm: which is it, can it be seen in this picture? I assume you refer to the one I suggested to use in series with the choke coil in the collector, to reduce heat dissipation in the transistor? 

Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #610 on: July 18, 2018, 10:15:18 PM »
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Online gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #611 on: July 18, 2018, 10:20:25 PM »
Hi Erfandl,

Okay, thanks for showing the current measurement results.  As I indicated before I did not blame the validity of your previous measurement on the reducement in input current when using 3 crystals in parallel: with oscillators it is always a good practice to filter the supply rails when measuring DC input current or learn about DC input power.   
So the mistery remains why the input current reduces and the brightness increases.
I think you have a 3rd 1000 uH choke coil available, right? Would you put this 3rd choke in parallel with the collector choke coil ? First do it with a single crystal and watch input current and brightness when you plug in the 3rd choke, then do the same when the 3 crystals are plugged in again. By the way, what is the resistance of such chokes? You can measure it with your digital multimeter when they are not plugged into the circuit.
With the parallel connection of two chokes in the collector I do not expect anything fancy would happen, just a suggestion to learn on its effect if any.  What you found as good by using the Pi filter is now there is no need for the use of the ferrite rod...  8)

You wrote: "DC DC boost converter pull 3.4 mA from battery !!!"

Would you tell what is the battery voltage you use to drive the boost converter?  And what is the output voltage you set the the converter to?  Just wish to know whether the 3.4 mA is a typo instead of say 34 mA ?

Thanks,  Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #612 on: July 18, 2018, 10:24:42 PM »
Hi Itsu,

Okay, I understand and agree, no problem.  Thank you for doing all these tests and spending on the transistors too.  We all learn.

It is good you tested connecting 3 crystals in parallel. However if you found the output remains the same, then that is different from that of Erfandl finding: his brightness increases with using 3 crystals. 

You also found though that the input current decreases a little as in Erfandl's oscillator.  It is very possible though that with such 2-3 mA or so small input current reduction the brightness may be invisible small too, this can explain you found the output unchanged.

EDIT:  It occured to me that crystals have a parallel capacitance across their wires or pins which is measurable by a pF meter only because the capacitance value is around  3 to 5 pF.  If 3 such crystals are connected in parallel, then these values add up to anywhere from say 9 pF to 15 pF of course.   This may already have an effect in the oscillator circuit: this capacitance appears across the base and the collector and can influence feed back. 
From this it comes that if a trimmer capacitor of max 15 pF value is connected in parallel with the single crystal working in the oscillator, then it may have the same effect?  It may not justify such results but 3 crystals certainly have 3 times as high self capacitance...  :)

Thanks,
Gyula

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #613 on: July 19, 2018, 10:48:26 AM »

Gyula,

concerning the output of my 3 crystal setup, i measured it with my scope (3 turn on toroid) and it did not
raise the output on the scope (looking at it on a tenth of a volt range).


But i was able to retune the variable cap / base trimmer pot for more output / more input current after
adding a new crystal, so there is some change in the tank / resonance circuit.


By adding a series trimmer cap to the crystal, one can change the crystal frequency a bit, so probably the
parallel capacitance added by extra crystals will change the resonance frequency also a bit needing a retune for
max.

 
Itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #614 on: July 19, 2018, 11:53:33 AM »
Hi Itsu,

Okay, thanks.  I agree with what you wrote on connecting a capacitor in series or in parallel with a crystal.
 
I was thinking on again whether my thought on adding a trimmer cap in parallel with the single crystal in the oscillator to mimic the capacitance of 3 paralleled crystals is a good one or not: because we run the crystal in an oscillator the trimmer cap should have more drastic (negative) effect between the collector-base points than the capacitance of the 3 crystals i.e. the trimmer cap cannot really mimic the role of 3 crystals. The trimmer cap does not possess the other properties of the crystals like a series LC circuit too, (besides the parallel LC) each crstal has.

With the three crystals, the harmonic spectrum may change and become reacher but because the crystals are surely within maximum some hundred Hz from each other, the spectrum lines could be seen quasy as a bit fatter, thicker at every harmonic spots. To see the 3 vertical lines at say the 3rd harmonic, you would need to expand, stretch out the horizontal frequency axis of the analyzer to see the 3 lines at that harmonic where so far there was only one vertical line. At the 5th harmonic the 3 vertical lines may get a bit further away from each other so they could be seen easier and so on.  This is because 3 crystals (running at nearly identical frequencies) should have three spectrum lines at the spots where a single crystal has only one line, this is so at each harmonics of course.

The increased number of harmonics in this sense may explain why Erfandl found an increase in the brightness when he used 3 crystals. We need to notice he does not have a resonant tank in the collector so all the harmonics may have higher amplitudes hence all can contribute to increase brightness a little. But there remains the question why the input current decreases with the 3 crystals?

Gyula

 

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