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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 49280 times)

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #510 on: July 09, 2018, 09:24:29 PM »

Quote
Hi Itsu,
Many thanks.  This may mean the series capacitance of the back plate of your LED board towards the conducting LEDs and the two diodes common point is small enough so that the variable capacitor can still be tuned for max brightness, I suppose?
Okay that a smaller current yields less brightness, I thought to reduce it so that such changes should not damage anything.
Gyula

Yes,  the 6-60pF variable cap is still somewhere in its middle range.

Itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #510 on: July 09, 2018, 09:24:29 PM »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #511 on: July 09, 2018, 09:44:17 PM »
Okay, that is good news, especially if the waveform across the tank remains relatively nice sine wave.


Thanks for the LED specs.  Is there any internal circuit you gutted from the board you use?  Because the original is specified as usable from 90V to 260V AC, this means a DC-DC converter embedded and fed from a full wave bridge rectifier to take care of the AC input.

The 5050 SMD LED chip generally runs at 60mA and forward voltage ranges between 3.1 and 3.4V, this is roughly 0.2 W. Your board has 14 chips, this would give 14 x 0.2 = 2.8W for that board. I do think that it is a marketing policy to advertize the original LED lamp as a 11W device, the brightness is enhanced by the mirror surfaces but the input power must be around 9 W or so and not 11 W as specified.

Here we can find the 5050 LED chip specifications
https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/surface-mount-smd/warm-white-5050-smd-led-120-degree-viewing-angle-6000-mcd/317/1249/ 

I think the 14 LEDs on your board are in series connection, if this is so than this means the forward voltages add up to say 3.3V x 14 = 46.2 VDC and considering 60 mA as specified, input power would be 2.77 W. 
This mean that such gutted LED board does not need 230V input, right?  I think the DC-DC converter steps down the 90 to230 V input AC to to this 46V DC and the 3 LED boards in the original lamp is connected in parallel. 

The DC input now is 12.5 x 62 mA= 0.775 W  and if the brightness would be comparable to the 2.7W DC input fed directly to such gutted board, then you have something good   :)   It would be too good to be true...
Gyula

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #512 on: July 09, 2018, 10:30:34 PM »

Yes, i removed the internal circuit (packed in yellow tape) but cannot find it now.

I tested another of the 3 led strips and with 16V i see some glow in the 14 leds appear
Crancking up the voltage untill 60mA current is drawn shows 20V, but this is not near the brightness it should be.

At 24V (200mA) the leds are very bright and the backplate start to get hot (40°C and rising).
The 3 led strips are mounted normally on a bigger alu heatsink, so i guess the 24V could be about its operating voltage.

I dont think the separate led strip will survive 46V, so probably the 14 leds are not in series.

Itsu
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 10:14:07 AM by itsu »

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #512 on: July 09, 2018, 10:30:34 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #513 on: July 09, 2018, 10:54:55 PM »
Hi Itsu,
Thanks for checking this.  If I recall correctly the LEDs should be connected in series on the board, when driving it capacitively through the Alu plate,  the Doc mentioned this in one of his videos and earlier for the SEC circuits he wrote a doc on the different connections "An efficient method for driving LED arrays", see attached. 

I agree the 14 LED chips on your board should be in a combination :  like 7 in series and the other 7 are also in series and these two series strings then connected in parallel.  This would be in the ballpark electrically I think.  That would mean 2 x 60 mA = 120 mA  and 7 x 3.3V = 23.1 V giving 2.7 W input,  with a brightness that is specified for this 5050 LED chip.

Gyula

Offline iQuest

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #514 on: July 10, 2018, 05:21:26 AM »
NickZ and others:  If I may be of help, you can get the genuine SEC 18 L3 coil information you're looking for 'straight from the horse's mouth'.  On the first page of this thread, ramset attached a document
by Dr. Stiffler which provides a very detailed description of the L3 coil construction which starts on page 30.  See Reply #10 on October 17, 2017, attachment file name DocumentSEC18_Rel_2_8-1.pdf 
https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/10/

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #514 on: July 10, 2018, 05:21:26 AM »
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Offline Lidmotor

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #515 on: July 10, 2018, 07:18:28 AM »
Nick and All----Here is the basic SEC-15 build diagram that I used to build my first SEC many years ago.   The L3 is the same as on a SEC-18.  The author of this diagram called the coils L1, LB, L2 but they were really named 1,2,and 3 by Dr. Stiffler.

---Lidmotor

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #516 on: July 10, 2018, 09:08:25 AM »
Yes, it can help you.  And you can always add fix capacitors in parallel with it if the 120 pF is not high enough.  (Of course the setting range suffers.)    You may have access to old AM pocket radio in which a plastic cased variable capacitor can be found, normally such has 2 x 260 or 2 x 300 pF variables.    Or you collect a range of fix capacitors like 22, 47, 100,  200 pF and place them in parallel in gradual combinations.
thanks. its helped by parallel 22pF with 30pF trimmer and circuit is now working, but the inductors gets very very very hot !

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #516 on: July 10, 2018, 09:08:25 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #517 on: July 10, 2018, 10:20:37 AM »
Hi Erfandl,

Very good your oscillator is now working.

Is the transistor you use is hot too?  Is the base resistor 100 kOhm or 1 MOhm now?

Please use a DC Ampermeter to learn about the input current your oscillator takes from your voltage source
(the 3.7V battery?). If this current is less than say 30-40 mA, than the hot choke coils can be explained as follows:
the ferrite material these chokes use is not powdered iron but hard ferrite and their performance above a certain
frequency becomes gradually lossy and more lossy, this loss manifests in heat. Very likely the oscillator frequency
went up to the several 10 kHz range where the chokes ferrite material becomes extensively lossy.
If you happen to have a digital multimeter which can measure frequency, hook it between the collector of the transistor
and the negative supply rail to learn about it.
IF this core loss is the problem (i.e. the current consumption is not in the hundreds of mA range), then you need to
obtain 1000 uH  (1 milliHenry) chokes that has no ferrite material.
Gyula

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #518 on: July 10, 2018, 10:34:45 AM »
Hi Erfandl,

Very good your oscillator is now working.

Is the transistor you use is hot too?  Is the base resistor 100 kOhm or 1 MOhm now?

Please use a DC Ampermeter to learn about the input current your oscillator takes from your voltage source
(the 3.7V battery?). If this current is less than say 30-40 mA, than the hot choke coils can be explained as follows:
the ferrite material these chokes use is not powdered iron but hard ferrite and their performance above a certain
frequency becomes gradually lossy and more lossy, this loss manifests in heat. Very likely the oscillator frequency
went up to the several 10 kHz range where the chokes ferrite material becomes extensively lossy.
If you happen to have a digital multimeter which can measure frequency, hook it between the collector of the transistor
and the negative supply rail to learn about it.
IF this core loss is the problem (i.e. the current consumption is not in the hundreds of mA range), then you need to
obtain 1000 uH  (1 milliHenry) chokes that has no ferrite material.
Gyula
no transistor isn't hot only inductors hot. the current is 720 mA  :-\ frequency is 85 kHz. resistor is 1M ohm.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #518 on: July 10, 2018, 10:34:45 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #519 on: July 10, 2018, 10:59:11 AM »
Well, then the 720 mA is the problem: it can happen when the isolation between the plates of the trimmer capacitor
is damaged and there is a short circuit somewhere between the plates.  Remove the battery i.e. switch off the oscillator
and with your Ohm meter check resistance between the two pins of the trimmer capacitor.  IF the trimmer capacitor or
the 22 pF itself is conducting as quasi a piece of wire, then chokes L1 and L3 can get hot (but the L2 choke in base
is not hot, right?).   Maybe the circuit board itself has become conductive somewhere?
It is interesting the oscillator is able to work.  Do you use the 3.7V battery?
 

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #520 on: July 10, 2018, 11:57:32 AM »
Well, then the 720 mA is the problem: it can happen when the isolation between the plates of the trimmer capacitor
is damaged and there is a short circuit somewhere between the plates.  Remove the battery i.e. switch off the oscillator
and with your Ohm meter check resistance between the two pins of the trimmer capacitor.  IF the trimmer capacitor or
the 22 pF itself is conducting as quasi a piece of wire, then chokes L1 and L3 can get hot (but the L2 choke in base
is not hot, right?).   Maybe the circuit board itself has become conductive somewhere?
It is interesting the oscillator is able to work.  Do you use the 3.7V battery?
thanks for reply. yeah L1 and L3 is hot and L2 is cold. I using 3.7V battery. I checked the capacitors with ohm meter and the DMM nothing show any value so capacitors is OK.
I connect the negative of the LED to negative power rail because without this 12 volt LED dosn't turn on. when I removed the connection between negative of 12 volt LED and negative power rail, the chokes dosn't get hot.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #520 on: July 10, 2018, 11:57:32 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #521 on: July 10, 2018, 12:41:02 PM »
Well, then you changed the circuit, obviously in a quest for making the 12V LED operate with a certain brightness.

You may wish to do the followings: use two white LEDs (the type you have in the base circuit), instead of the 12V LED
and try to find capacitor values (in parallel with the trimmer cap) which show an increase in the brightness for the 2 LEDs.
Then continue with 3 and or 4 white LEDs in series and again use different capacitor values to increase brightness.
IT is possible you reach to a limit and no more increase in brightness is achieved. Then try to obtain a single LED which
has 1 W or 2 or 3 W power and try to optimize for maximum brightness.

Offline itsu

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #522 on: July 10, 2018, 02:12:53 PM »

I found the logic circuit of my led lamp, see picture.
The backside reads:  Y&M-TG-5-9W  so probably indeed a 9W led lamp.

Itsu

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #523 on: July 10, 2018, 03:57:44 PM »
I found the logic circuit of my led lamp, see picture.
The backside reads:  Y&M-TG-5-9W  so probably indeed a 9W led lamp.

Itsu
it's not necessarily the power through the leds, leds emit UV witch is used to vibrate the phosphor
it is really down to it's processing particle size, and quantity are related to quality of the light.
By the way you do know what Phosphor is made from 'Piss'  ;D ;D
AG
« Last Edit: July 10, 2018, 06:41:03 PM by AlienGrey »

Offline seychelles

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #524 on: July 10, 2018, 05:22:52 PM »
I THOUGHT IT WAS MADE FROM SEA BIRD SHIT.

 

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