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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 52263 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #345 on: June 26, 2018, 04:58:06 PM »
Yes, you can use it.   Thanks for the DC voltage values.   Did you find any mV in AC voltage mode? I know that voltage meters are useful at 50-60 Hz sinusoidal frequencies but some ten mV to some 100 mV indication in AC mode could be expected from them if the oscillator works. Compare the AC voltages when the crystal is removed versus when in place.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #345 on: June 26, 2018, 04:58:06 PM »

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #346 on: June 26, 2018, 05:26:07 PM »
Yes, you can use it.   Thanks for the DC voltage values.   Did you find any mV in AC voltage mode? I know that voltage meters are useful at 50-60 Hz sinusoidal frequencies but some ten mV to some 100 mV indication in AC mode could be expected from them if the oscillator works. Compare the AC voltages when the crystal is removed versus when in place.
thanks. I used that 1000 uh coil. the AC voltage from supply ground and tesla coil about 7 volt and frequency is 900 hertz.
I build the below circuit and its working like a charm with tesla musical coil. but I dont know why the crystal circuit cannot be working :(


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #347 on: June 26, 2018, 07:26:18 PM »
Well, please do not connect the air coil to the collector of the crystal oscillator circuit, ok? Just check the AC voltage between the negative ground and the base and between the negative ground and collector, first without the crystal and then with the crystal in place,  ok? Check this with the 1 kOhm resistor too and also with the 1000 uH choke instead of the 1 kOhm.

Your mesured DC voltage of 0.675 V between the base and emitter that is correct and the collector voltage of 2.35 V versus the emitter is also good when the 1 kOhm collector resistance is used but ideally 6 V DC would be the best value there if your supply voltage is 12 V. You could use a 470 kOhm trimmer potmeter (or a 220 kOhm in series with the 100 kOhm resistor) to adjust the 6 V DC between the collector-emitter when the crystal and the coil is removed and you have the 1 kOhm collector resistor instead of the choke coil. The 6 V DC level would insure the transistor is biased for the most linear operational point and oscillating signal would have the least distortion.

You do not have a oscilloscope but a digital multimeter, is this so?  Do you have a function or signal generator, even with a low level output?

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #347 on: June 26, 2018, 07:26:18 PM »
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Offline Lidmotor

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Crystal Circuit Exciter
« Reply #348 on: June 26, 2018, 07:53:59 PM »
 :DAll ---I did a video explaining this crystal circuit exciter build better and specifically how I am making that air core coil.  I just wrap stiff paper on a AA battery, wrap the length of the battery with 26ga magnet wire, take the battery out,  and that is it.  I don't count the turns or measure the inductance.  A ferrite rod moved in and out does the fine tuning.  The coil is based on Dr. Stiffler's SEC 18 'L3' but is longer. 
  I soldered up a replication of the initial bread board version taking care to put the components on the board in about the same location.  It worked fine but the device is sensitive capacitive influence.  Tuning is a bit touchy. 
   I show the second unit driving the first unit wirelessly here:
   
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJhdZNIUOiI

Cheers,
            Lidmotor

PS----Gyula I think your idea about using a 'wiper' style coil for tuning like in a simple Crystal Radio might work.  I might try that today.  As far as the 1000mh choke I did get mine to run on different values and styles so building your own should not be a problem.  The dynamic of these open ended exciters goes beyond a simple running oscillator and EVERTHING in the local area has some effect on it -- including the human sitting in front of it.  The types of components and their position in relationship to each other matter.  I was very worried that I was not going to replicate my original bread board setup because of the capacitance in the bread board itself.  I got lucky.  It is like all the things in the local are talking to one  other when the thing pops into resonance.  In the above video I could tune the whole area in and out of resonance but tuning the second unit that was driving the pulse motor.

Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #349 on: June 26, 2018, 07:59:14 PM »
Well, please do not connect the air coil to the collector of the crystal oscillator circuit, ok? Just check the AC voltage between the negative ground and the base and between the negative ground and collector, first without the crystal and then with the crystal in place,  ok? Check this with the 1 kOhm resistor too and also with the 1000 uH choke instead of the 1 kOhm.

Your mesured DC voltage of 0.675 V between the base and emitter that is correct and the collector voltage of 2.35 V versus the emitter is also good when the 1 kOhm collector resistance is used but ideally 6 V DC would be the best value there if your supply voltage is 12 V. You could use a 470 kOhm trimmer potmeter (or a 220 kOhm in series with the 100 kOhm resistor) to adjust the 6 V DC between the collector-emitter when the crystal and the coil is removed and you have the 1 kOhm collector resistor instead of the choke coil. The 6 V DC level would insure the transistor is biased for the most linear operational point and oscillating signal would have the least distortion.

You do not have a oscilloscope but a digital multimeter, is this so?  Do you have a function or signal generator, even with a low level output?
thanks so much for reply. OK :D. no I don't have oscilloscope and signal generator or function :(
the AC voltage report:

0.018 base voltage with 1000 uh and with crystal
0.476  colector voltage with 1000 uh and with crystal
0 base voltage with 1000 uh and no crystal
0.476 colector voltage with 1000 uh and no crystal ( the voltage randomly go to 0.000 and go to 0.476 )

0 base voltage with 1kohm resistor and with crystal
0.004 collector voltage with 1kohm and with crystal
0 base voltage with 1kohm resistor and no crystal
0 collector voltage with 1kohm resistor and no crystal

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #349 on: June 26, 2018, 07:59:14 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #350 on: June 26, 2018, 09:07:52 PM »
Thanks for the report.  It looks like your crystal oscillator works and it works better with the choke coil than with the 1 kOhm resistor in the collector which is okay.  Now just use the choke coil and you can focus on making the air coil resonant at 13.56 MHz.
Member Lidmotor's above video shows a coil construction to approach resonance at 13.56 MHz when the coil is loaded and tuned with a ferrite rod.   Notice that with ferrite tuning you reduce the air core coil resonance frequency (it is like you would increase the number of turns),
Gyula

Offline Lidmotor

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Gyula's coil idea
« Reply #351 on: June 26, 2018, 09:20:17 PM »
Gyula--- I think your 'wiper coil' is a really good idea.  What you just mentioned about the ferrite rod basically increasing the number of turns on the coil was very helpful.  All we have to do is build a longer coil and use the wiper method to find the correct length.  The ferrite rod could still be used (if necessary) for fine tuning.  Thanks a lot for that idea.  Here is crystal radio coil like that.  It is too big but it is the same idea.  ---Lidmotor

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Gyula's coil idea
« Reply #351 on: June 26, 2018, 09:20:17 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #352 on: June 26, 2018, 09:24:56 PM »
Hi Lidmotor,

Regarding the "wiper style" coil tuning, perhaps the main thing to care for is not to short circuit adjacent turns with the wiper, this may involve the use of a little distance between the turns when winding the coil. This distance may be insured by using two wires while winding as the insurance for keeping the gap between the turns. The second wire may be left unused. OF course better methods can surely be followed, maybe making 3 or 4 short air coil section with say 15-20 turn for each and mount them on a common bobbin in a slide-able fashion.
While I was writing this you posted the above picture and that is ok too. 

Gyula

Offline Lidmotor

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Wiper coil for crystal circuit exciter
« Reply #353 on: June 27, 2018, 01:38:08 AM »
Gyula -----I made one of those wiper coils for the crystal circuit and it worked.  It is very touchy because of how we are using it.  If you get your hand near it that changes the local capacitance which throw things off.  You have to adjust it in small increments then get away from it to see what happens.  Fine tuning can be done with a ferrite rod if you need to. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZjAKK38UIA

--Lidmotor

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Wiper coil for crystal circuit exciter
« Reply #353 on: June 27, 2018, 01:38:08 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #354 on: June 27, 2018, 03:23:15 AM »
There are all kinds of ways to tune a coil set. One of my favorite ways is the "variometer".
The inner coil is connected in series with the outer coil, through the pivots. The inner coil can be rotated all the way around on the conductive pivots. The effect is like adding or subtracting the number of turns of the inner coil, or anywhere in between.


Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #355 on: June 27, 2018, 04:51:03 AM »
TK - If the outer was 25+25 turns and the inner was 25+25 turns, would that give a 50-100 turn range of the pivot ?


Here was a surprise....
I went back to the original 2 pin crystal circuit, with the Lidmotor 1000uH axial inductor.
The idea was to try the crystal radio wiper idea, with a florists wire (steel) coil that seemed to resonate at a very low 2.4MHz.
However, before doing that, I wondered if the lower value crystals might see it improve performance as they went lower.
In fact, a 10.1MHz works the best.
It cleared the 12" ruler I was using for pickup distance AND it runs a neon at 9V very well.

Somebody's going to get plasma out of these things at some point  ;D

Update: 16" with a PC heatsink on the receiver coil :)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2018, 07:43:00 AM by Slider2732 »

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #355 on: June 27, 2018, 04:51:03 AM »
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Offline erfandl

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Re: Crystal Circuit Exciter
« Reply #356 on: June 27, 2018, 08:07:18 AM »
:DAll ---I did a video explaining this crystal circuit exciter build better and specifically how I am making that air core coil.  I just wrap stiff paper on a AA battery, wrap the length of the battery with 26ga magnet wire, take the battery out,  and that is it.  I don't count the turns or measure the inductance.  A ferrite rod moved in and out does the fine tuning.  The coil is based on Dr. Stiffler's SEC 18 'L3' but is longer. 
  I soldered up a replication of the initial bread board version taking care to put the components on the board in about the same location.  It worked fine but the device is sensitive capacitive influence.  Tuning is a bit touchy. 
   I show the second unit driving the first unit wirelessly here:
   
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJhdZNIUOiI

Cheers,
            Lidmotor

PS----Gyula I think your idea about using a 'wiper' style coil for tuning like in a simple Crystal Radio might work.  I might try that today.  As far as the 1000mh choke I did get mine to run on different values and styles so building your own should not be a problem.  The dynamic of these open ended exciters goes beyond a simple running oscillator and EVERTHING in the local area has some effect on it -- including the human sitting in front of it.  The types of components and their position in relationship to each other matter.  I was very worried that I was not going to replicate my original bread board setup because of the capacitance in the bread board itself.  I got lucky.  It is like all the things in the local are talking to one  other when the thing pops into resonance.  In the above video I could tune the whole area in and out of resonance but tuning the second unit that was driving the pulse motor.
Hi lidmotor thanks for sharing your circuit. the number of coil info in the circuit is Illegible. whats that number ?
thanks


Offline erfandl

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #357 on: June 27, 2018, 09:12:58 AM »
Thanks for the report.  It looks like your crystal oscillator works and it works better with the choke coil than with the 1 kOhm resistor in the collector which is okay.  Now just use the choke coil and you can focus on making the air coil resonant at 13.56 MHz.
Member Lidmotor's above video shows a coil construction to approach resonance at 13.56 MHz when the coil is loaded and tuned with a ferrite rod.   Notice that with ferrite tuning you reduce the air core coil resonance frequency (it is like you would increase the number of turns),
Gyula
thanks. today I build the coil from lidmotor video. I buying a new 13.56 mhz crystal but yet the circuit cannot be working :( the ferite rod nothing doing when insert it in coil.


Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #358 on: June 27, 2018, 09:48:53 AM »
Hi Erfandl,

Would like to ask what is your indicator for seeing whether the oscillator works or not, with this new coil?

Do you have an AV diode plug connected to the free end of the air coil and the diodes feed a LED?
You can use such "sniffer" AV plug holding in your hand like Slider shows in his above picture. It should indicate also at the collector in itself if you touch the common diodes point of the AV plug to the collector.
Gyula

Offline mikrovolt

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #359 on: June 27, 2018, 10:09:18 AM »
With SEC 18 boards on the bench we recall the FFT or spec analyzer is used to see the what harmonics show and where they go.
This video shows a signal generator and how the various different species of waves spread out. Getting used to and understanding
the frequency domain is part of understanding the Doctor's work. Then we have something to compare the pattern and frequencies
of the SEC when adjusting capacitive coupling; led back planes, Stiffler loops and such.

https://youtu.be/wZoGWvYUl7Y


 

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