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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 39209 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2018, 05:21:16 PM »
Gyula - good idea with the Slayer type of setup. But would such a thing actually switch at that speed, their normal free running characteristics put them at around 2 MHz. Will try it anyway :)
...
Well,  see this sketch how I thought first to drive a coil (tuned to 27 MHz self resonant frequency) via a tap with your 9 MHz oscillator.  But now that you mention the Slayer oscillator, then indeed simpler to make a separate primary coil of 1 to 2 turns and connect it to the oscillator output via a capacitor.  I numbered as 1 and 2 where the primary coil could be connected and in this case the bottom of the secondary coil could be left either floating or tied to the negative rail. 
This way the secondary could be driven by magnetic coupling to the primary coil and you would need to achieve 27 MHz resonance in the secondary (i.e. the 3rd harmonic of the 9 MHz). 
This kind of feeding the secondary (i.e. by coupling) does not involve switching, a normal Faraday induction is involved like in transformers so the bad shape of the waveform is no problem in this case.

But Nick questions this laborious task which certainly differs in frequency from 13.5 MHz so it is up to you of course.  8)

Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #180 on: June 12, 2018, 05:21:16 PM »

Offline Lidmotor

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Operating in 13 MHz realm
« Reply #181 on: June 12, 2018, 07:17:29 PM »
  The focus seems to be on the 13MHz frequency now and Doc's SEC exciters dance in that realm.  There are other frequency 'spikes' that work but perhaps not as well???  It is all about resonance.  Kinda like good songs but different songs.   
   All of us are pursuing this in slightly different ways but along the way we are finding new things.  It's great.  I have really missed working on these group projects. 
   That said--- these new leds are perhaps where the magic is.  The best way to drive them is where the adventure become really fun.
 
--- Lidmotor

Offline NickZ

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Re: Operating in 13 MHz realm
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2018, 07:48:06 PM »
  The focus seems to be on the 13MHz frequency now and Doc's SEC exciters dance in that realm.  There are other frequency 'spikes' that work but perhaps not as well???  It is all about resonance.  Kinda like good songs but different songs.   
   All of us are pursuing this in slightly different ways but along the way we are finding new things.  It's great.  I have really missed working on these group projects. 
   That said--- these new leds are perhaps where the magic is.  The best way to drive them is where the adventure become really fun.
 
--- Lidmotor
    Agreed.  Looks like you are getting somewhere with that bulb. Your capacitive effects are much better than before.
As now the bulb dies when touching it. However, I don't think that you need to add the aluminum block, as that is a grounding source, which I believe needs to be avoided, in this case. The bulb need to light without aluminum blocks, grounds, or touching it, using only 20v output to it, or so. Right?   I think that the main thing is the the bulbs have some sorts of metal backing, that is very close to the leds.
Not like my last led bulb with the 24leds, and reflector. The reflector is too far away from all the leds themselves to provide the best capacitive effects. Your last corn cob bulb also has some of the led far from the aluminum back plate.
The best thing is for the leds to be right next to the metal backing plate (heatsink).
   I'm glad to be working with you guys on this, as well.
   I tried to solder the diodes on to my reflector spot light bulb, but the solder won't stick to it.   I think that is may also be important to use the same connectors that he uses, as they are also within the EM field.

The coils possibly also need to be properly turned to 13MHz for best interaction.

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Re: Operating in 13 MHz realm
« Reply #182 on: June 12, 2018, 07:48:06 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #183 on: June 12, 2018, 08:09:00 PM »
Hi Rusty,
I also think the Alu block can be left out of the game, I mention this here
https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/msg522438/#msg522438 

Wish you much fun.
Gyula

Offline Lidmotor

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Leds mounted on an aluminum heat sink
« Reply #184 on: June 12, 2018, 08:14:53 PM »
Nick---This new bulb I found has a thin AL ring with fingers that the leds are all mounted on.  It is actually a flat plate rolled up.  I tried driving this array several ways off the SEC 18.  It worked just fine the old way with just an AV plug stuck on the input wire but I wanted to try the Doc's new way.  I couldn't get it to light up driving off the heat sink unless I used the Al block or basically shorted the AV plug back to the (-) SEC input. It was kinda like Doc showed in that 1st video a week or so ago.  That was before he started playing around with just the signal generator to drive his board. 
   I don't know where this project is going but I hope to get something to 'field test' for my next sailboat trip to Catalina Island later on this summer.  The island is 30 miles away from anything that might be called 'external input' and this stuff is great fun to play around with while at sea.

---Lidmotor

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Leds mounted on an aluminum heat sink
« Reply #184 on: June 12, 2018, 08:14:53 PM »
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Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #185 on: June 12, 2018, 08:34:21 PM »
I'm delighted about the boating thoughts, hoped you would go that route. The thing being that we all need a drive to do something like this, a reason that's practical and the boat is ideal. Well, unless you have a really long extension cord hanging out of the back of it.

I agree Nick, it's likely best to just order the 13.5MHz crystal. The thing being though that I have boxes and boxes of old electronics parts boards and felt sure that there would be tons of these things on everything. Sure enough there are the 2 pin types, hundreds of them, but not the 4 pin type.

The AD9850 will be here in 2 days !
The rotary encoder and screen will be longer but older projects might get scavenged for those in the meantime.


I tried the MX045 46.61512MHz crystal from the Soundblaster 16 card because the DEC crystals wouldn't come out and...whaddya know...it apparently runs at 1/3rd the speed that it should do !



Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #186 on: June 12, 2018, 09:18:08 PM »
Those 4-pin things aren't "crystals" although they do contain a crystal. There is a lot more stuff in there.
I happen to have a handful of 1MHz 4pin oscillators so I sacrificed one for you.
The crystal itself didn't survive the decapping, but I would have removed it anyhow to show the chip underneath it.

You cannot simply drop one of these things into a crystal oscillator circuit and expect it to work! Or vice versa.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 03:10:08 AM by TinselKoala »

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #186 on: June 12, 2018, 09:18:08 PM »
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Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #187 on: June 12, 2018, 09:18:14 PM »
TK - thanks for that decapping. Sure enough, there's tons of stuff in there.
I had no idea of the spacings or sizes of such microsized componentry.


Got it !
The reason for the 1/3rd speed running is because of the LED in series on the Vcc !
The drop across it is enough to put the crystals into that mode.
By accident, I bypassed the LED while setting up a Slayer type tower and the scope now reads 27MHz.
Will try the 46MHz, but fully expect that to show the correct frequency now too.

Or another way of thinking about this, would be if you have a 40MHz crystal, an LED in series with a USB supply would produce 13.333MHz


Quick short vid of the discovery, wasn't sure what had happened until the camera shows the breadboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVfJ1-pXoE
(1min 16sec)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #188 on: June 12, 2018, 11:00:53 PM »
Hej Slider,
Data sheet I drew your attention includes the 5V  within 10% like a TTL circuit.

IT is good you found this out.
Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #188 on: June 12, 2018, 11:00:53 PM »
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Offline Lidmotor

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Back to the Slayer Exciter
« Reply #189 on: June 13, 2018, 01:00:16 AM »
I tried that new 110v led bulb out is different ways and ended up driving it with a super simple bare bone Slayer Exciter and one 3.7v battery.  The led board did not light up at all using that 13.5 MHz 4 pin oscillator I have.  Sooooo ---I just kinda abandoned really replicating the Doc's signal generator experiments.  With what I have to work with and the results I have seen so far I don't see how he did what he did.  Driving that Cree board to the brightness he showed, with just a 13 MHz signal, is a puzzle.   
  Here is what I ended up with today which might end up being a nice light for my boat.  Long live the good ole Slayer Exciter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e54vSf0PcDg

---Lidmotor
   

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #190 on: June 13, 2018, 02:09:19 AM »
It is a good use and good video.
Especially the micro 'tower' which lends itself readily to boxing up and not knowing there is a Slayer circuit inside.
Hopefully you can carry on with the project though, if things take a turn :)


One of which might be this....
Have found a circuit here:
http://jaunty-electronics.com/blog/2012/08/simple-oscillator-as-crystal-tester/
A very simple and effective circuit for driving practically any 2 pin crystal !!!
It works wonderfully.
Have tested loads of them and all work, with a clean wave output at the correct frequencies.

Video of it running and a crystal swap is shown:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2omcrkrrhoc
(2 mins 14 secs)

Now we just have to find a similarly simple way to get the signal to 20V  :)

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #190 on: June 13, 2018, 02:09:19 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #191 on: June 13, 2018, 03:02:18 AM »
Run the output of the tester circuit through a Schmitt trigger inverter stage or two to square it up, then use the output from that to drive a mosfet driver driving a mosfet in a lowside switch configuration, switching your 20v through your load. Keep your circuit tight and solid (respect RF design principles). 

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #192 on: June 13, 2018, 05:17:24 AM »
Thanks TK and that's where I got confused. A lot of mention was made of needing a Sine wave, so the only thing I could think of was to use a MOSFET and then perhaps add another slight tank to smooth out the sharpness of the squarewave.
Will take the MOSFET route in any case, it's the only one to readily produce the 20V :)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #193 on: June 13, 2018, 02:38:27 PM »
Hi Lidmotor,

Good result with the exciter, thanks for the video. Would like to ask whether a puffer capacitor across the LED at the output of the two AV plug diodes does not help increase brightness a little?  (Albeit it may also increase input DC power a little, too.)

You wrote:     "With what I have to work with and the results I have seen so far I don't see how he did what he did.  Driving that Cree board to the brightness he showed, with just a 13 MHz signal, is a puzzle."

No offense intended but you have not replicated the Doc's signal generator experiments yet. The answer is that your 13.5 MHz 4 pin oscillator has much less output amplitude than that of the Doc's signal generator, this is what is missing for you. The Doc starts with the 25Vpp or so amplitude and his air core coil enhances it at resonance up to at least the 70-90 Vpp or higher amplitude ranges and this is what excites capacitively the p-n junctions of the LEDs.

I do think that the exciter you just showed in the video may easily have the 70-90 Vpp or so at the top of the secondary coil, converted from the 3.7V battery (and the associated input current) by resonance and that is what feeds the LEDs via the AV plug.

The SEC 18 you used the other day should have similarly high RF amplitude across its coil and that is what you fed capacitively to the Alu plates of the LEDs and got good brightness too. Perhaps you could test this latter feeding method with the Slayer exciter too if you have not done so with that yet.

Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #194 on: June 13, 2018, 03:04:23 PM »
Thanks TK and that's where I got confused. A lot of mention was made of needing a Sine wave, so the only thing I could think of was to use a MOSFET and then perhaps add another slight tank to smooth out the sharpness of the squarewave.
Will take the MOSFET route in any case, it's the only one to readily produce the 20V :)
Hi Slider,
Well, the Doc surely has his reasons to choose sine wave from the starting signal source for such test setups. 

It is possible that if you had a 25 Vpp square wave at say 13.5 MHz, then the air core coil driven with a single wire and tuned correctly to this frequency would also amplify that to the 70-90 Vpp amplitude which would already be a sine wave rather than square wave due to the resonance but this needs to be tested whether it gives similar result then a sinewave from the start. 

When I gave links to oscillator circuits, those papers included a 1 W and a 10 W linear power amplifier with MOSFETs, see this post of mine.  Both amplifiers are preceeded by a single transistor preamplifier and the latter could be driven from a dedicated 13.5 MHz crystal oscillator  or even from your already built LC oscillator. 

Gyula

 

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