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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 123279 times)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2018, 08:25:31 AM »
   I would suppose that the idea with using the SG is to find the resonant frequency sweet spot, but, later do away with the SG.
   Therefore, a proper circuit that generates the right voltages 20v, and correct 13.5MHz frequency need to replace the SG.   What would that circuit need to look like??? And, the frequency should not be just a stable 13MHz, either. As it needs to be a controllable frequency, to adjust for different lodes, and changing ambient, like varying day or night conditions, etz...
    That is my question. What would that particular circuit have to look like? 
    The Docs not there yet, either. But, I think that he's headed that way, sooner or later.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #165 on: June 12, 2018, 08:25:31 AM »

Offline Lidmotor

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New 110v bulb that works
« Reply #166 on: June 12, 2018, 08:32:40 AM »
I found a110v bulb that works pretty good----at least working off a SEC 18.  It was too late in the day to try it on my 13MHz crystal oscillator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNggjXqgrc0

Lidmotor

Offline AlienGrey

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Re: New 110v bulb that works
« Reply #167 on: June 12, 2018, 12:20:32 PM »
I found a110v bulb that works pretty good----at least working off a SEC 18.  It was too late in the day to try it on my 13MHz crystal oscillator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNggjXqgrc0

Lidmotor
Some 13.3mhz xtals can be found in old Sony TV remote headphones if any one is interested !

Lidmore any chance of a photo of setup re bulb. Chears
PS forget it as your video is now available,    no problem  :)
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 05:26:11 PM by AlienGrey »

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Re: New 110v bulb that works
« Reply #167 on: June 12, 2018, 12:20:32 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #168 on: June 12, 2018, 02:18:52 PM »
Hi Lidmotor,

Very good, congratulations and I also think you replicated the effect i.e. exciting p-n junctions of SMD LEDs by strong RF field via capacitive coupling.
Suddenly I cannot recall what frequency a SEC 18 board is working at? Is it within the 13-14 MHz frequency range? With a loosely coupled scope probe placed nearby the air coil may pick up enough juice to display the waveform hence the frequency.

A suggestion if you have not tried: just connect the center of the two diodes with a piece of wire directly to the negative supply rail of the oscillator instead of to the surface of the metal block (remove that block). The Doc showed this connection in his video a month ago with a SEC, video time 1.38 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIcaDtSUT3I

Thanks,
Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #169 on: June 12, 2018, 02:28:29 PM »
Another component that might be useful for this kind of thing is the Hitachi 1SS106 diode.
Hi TK,
Fine, thanks.    (The only drawback though is it has only 10 V reverse voltage ratings.)
The Ge diode types like OA161 or OA182 would perform also well here.
Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #169 on: June 12, 2018, 02:28:29 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #170 on: June 12, 2018, 02:33:59 PM »
Hi Slider,

I found a data sheet https://www.datasheets360.com/pdf/5616418939580198828 for your oscillator.
So no need to attach a tank circuit directly between the output pin and positive rail because the output is a normal TTL output. (shorting by coil wire the output to either the + or - pins may damage the internal output circuit, use capacitor in series with the output pin to remove DC level which is about half of the 5V supply voltage)

EDIT: I found this test circuit for your oscillator: https://web.archive.org/web/20061016045228/http://www.calcrystal.com/pdf/CT.pdf   

Gyula

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2018, 02:38:47 PM »
Lidmotor - Excellent demo !
If the rated wattage on that bulb is about 4W then it would seem that your setup trounces it.
Even 18V @ 50mA is only 0.9W
By the sounds of it there is far more light output than would be expected for < 1W at that voltage. The Dollar Tree bulbs have the separate circuitboard and it would be neat to know if they work anywhere near that well on a real SEC-18.
 
Mildly related is that yesterday I replaced the 3rd brake light on our car. The old board had blown, so in went 4x 5mm LED's in series, with a 100ohm resistor. The amount of rubbish on the original board was unreal. I have no idea why it was packed with diodes resistors and caps, because the much simpler method works completely fine and the LED's are not stressing. I removed the internal dissipating lens thing too and the 4 lights are much clearer for any following motorist.


Gyula - Ah! many thanks, will take a look right now :)

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #171 on: June 12, 2018, 02:38:47 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #172 on: June 12, 2018, 02:45:29 PM »
Lidmotor - Excellent demo !
If the rated wattage on that bulb is about 4W then it would seem that your setup trounces it.
Even 18V @ 50mA is only 0.9W
By the sounds of it there is far more light output than would be expected for < 1W at that voltage. The Dollar Tree bulbs have the separate circuitboard and it would be neat to know if they work anywhere near that well on a real SEC-18.
 ...
I agree and I hope Lidmotor purchased at least two such LED lamps...   8)   and in this case the second one could be run directly from the AC mains and brightnesses could be compared and bring to similar level by the DC input to the oscillator.  And of course the AC input to the second bulb could also be measured. 

Gyula

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2018, 03:34:50 PM »
Aye, true enough...a lumen meter isn't needed for such a test, the eyes can do a good job of discernment. If it's close then i'm thinking it could also be useful for Lid's boat trips to Catalina Island....they make for fun vids when various devices have been shown running onboard. We're a bit short on ocean here in Oklahoma to repeat such tests lol


I just tried the test circuit from the above post and it still says 9.02MHz !
It must be a very wonky crystal, or, it could be viewed as a highly exacting and tough 9MHz source.
Quick vid here for you Gyula, 37 seconds, showing the test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXouxpKkxw


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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #173 on: June 12, 2018, 03:34:50 PM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #174 on: June 12, 2018, 03:53:14 PM »

   Guys:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-13-52127MHZ-Crystal-Oscillator-Quartz-crystal-13-52127MHZ-Plug-in-crystal-HC-49S/32403283986.html

   Possibly this is the type of crystal needed. Or not?
   Gyula:  The crystal circuit that you posted shows that is uses a 5v input.  What is the expected output voltage?   Slider:  Regardless of the circuit's input voltage, the output voltages need to be at least around 20v to 25v. @13MHz, or so. To be in the Doc's ballpark. That's with NO negative rail from the SG connected. Right?
   Also, a neon bulb should be able light near the output bulb. Mine lights about to 3 inches away from the aluminum block using 12v input to my Kacher circuit. But, adding the two diodes, to complete the circuit, does not light the bulb brightly without adding an earth ground. I think that proper operation should be that no ground is needed, and the bulb should light by capacitance, using just the two diode loop. No ground, and no touching the bulb.  If not, then we are not on the right track.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #175 on: June 12, 2018, 04:16:30 PM »
....
I just tried the test circuit from the above post and it still says 9.02MHz !
It must be a very wonky crystal, or, it could be viewed as a highly exacting and tough 9MHz source.
Quick vid here for you Gyula, 37 seconds, showing the test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHXouxpKkxw
Hi Slider,

Thanks for the video. The test shown by the manufacturer I think tries to mimic a TTL load for their oscillator output, to characterize somehow their output waveform rise and fall times, that is all.
There surely is a problem internal to your encased oscillator if the 27 MHz is stamped on it as the photo shows TK found, then the 9 MHz should not dominate at the output, hence you have a 9 MHz oscillator. The wave form your scope shows has far worse rise and fall times, not even comparable to their stated data on those.

Perhaps, just perhaps,  if you wish to make LED tests at 27 MHz, you could make an air core coil for 27 MHz, would look like a Tesla secondary. Its bottom wire would go to the negative rail and the oscillator output would be connected via a series capacitor to a 2 or 3 turn tap from the bottom, the top end would be floating. Like a step up auto transformer. 
Of course this tuning would involve many trials and sweat to arrive at the coil's 27 MHz resonance and the result is also questionable, LED wise at 27 MHz. For an estimate on coil size and turns, online calculator may help in that to bring  sizes within ballpark range. If you need I could figure out something. 

Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #175 on: June 12, 2018, 04:16:30 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #176 on: June 12, 2018, 04:23:40 PM »
Hi Nick,
The price is too high for those crystals if you have to buy 200 pieces in that offer.  Yes the frequency is good I think.  I also think these offers at ebay are also good and the frequencies are within ballpark (I made a random search):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/253056332398     or   https://www.ebay.com/itm/362257415906 

The designation "oscillator" in the title of the offers is only a marketing method, of course,  you would need to build a 1 transistor circuit to make any of such crystals oscillate at their stemped on frequency.
Gyula
 

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #177 on: June 12, 2018, 04:30:30 PM »
Gyula - good idea with the Slayer type of setup. But would such a thing actually switch at that speed, their normal free running characteristics put them at around 2 MHz. Will try it anyway :)

Nick - the 4 pin type is easiest to work with. The 2 pin types like that one are correct, but need a bit of circuitry. Usually 30pF x2 and an op-amp etc. I think that's the draw of these 4 pin types, having the needed hardware built in.

Speaking of which, it's been an interesting foray so far within the old boards here. Do I really want to desolder a 46.6MHz 4 pin from an original Soundblaster 16 ISA card ?  ???
Same thing for the various ones found on arcade boards, such as Streeetfighter II and Golden Tee Golf.   
But, have found a 24MHz and a 30MHz on the boards from a DEC DecMate from 1981. The crystals could be put back in, so I think i'll desolder those. 
No luck yet on the 13.5MHz area though.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #178 on: June 12, 2018, 04:46:36 PM »
Well, it is not likely you would find the needed xtal, you know Murphy...

What you show on the boards look like oscillators running at 5V I guess.
https://www.ntt-electronics.com/en/nel-c/company/index.html     no info yet on their products

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #179 on: June 12, 2018, 05:07:48 PM »
Well, it is not likely you would find the needed xtal, you know Murphy...

What you show on the boards look like oscillators running at 5V I guess.
https://www.ntt-electronics.com/en/nel-c/company/index.html     no info yet on their products
   Slider, can't you just order a few of the right 13.5MHz ones, might take a few days to get them, but you'd have them.   Otherwise it's like batting in the dark.   You need to tune your coil (or coils), as well. Like Gyula has mentioned. Other wise the frequency will be more related to the coils that you use, instead what the oscillator frequency provides. Which brings me, again,  to just what coils, and frequencies we need to use.
   I see that a well tuned system needs no ferrite to tune with, adding ferrite to the core, just messes up a properly tuned circuit loop. As does adding any type of ground line. Adding a ground line should Kill the resonance, if it's all well, and in tune.

 

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