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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 42192 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #135 on: June 09, 2018, 03:09:58 PM »
Hi Slider,

Thanks and please do not be discouraged when after building the oscillator on a soldered board you find it does not work just like it did on the proto board...  in this case further tweaking is needed that is all.   ;)
Just use the same components first and after seeing how it works, make some adjustments.

Gyula
 

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #135 on: June 09, 2018, 03:09:58 PM »

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #136 on: June 09, 2018, 06:59:55 PM »
Oh, no discouragement if it doesn't work...I hope it doesn't because it's well known that breadboards muck up high frequency circuits. In this case, the presumption is it mucked it up in a positive way.

Those links were good for the bulb parts.
Seems to me that no matter how a circuit does something, if it can do it repeatedly for different people with the same easily available parts then it adds to evidence. I think we do need to know the bulb model that Dr. Stiffler has been using, to be on that same page.
Lighting LED's is only 1 area of any power delivery but so very important.
We found out last night how important that is when we had a large area power cut for 1 1/2 hours. First time in 10 years, though we get blip power cuts about once a week. The coal fired power station is only about 3 miles away, but I think they employ carpenters as electricians.
With a bit of warning lots of tests based on years old questions could have been made, the Stubblefield telephone, soil single wire transmission, everything else that needs the house power and surrounding power to be off. We just didn't know how long it would be off and I failed as a prepper lol. Never trust rechargeables to sit ready for weeks and never go lax on battery charging for emergency solutions !
However, there was 1 very strange observation which needs some consideration for capacitive couplings. Nephilim Penny has been running for nearly 7 years on rain water and is based on Lidmotor's tank circuit JT, but with a large double pancake coil, one on top of the other. I'm very used to it's flashes in the kitchen and the intensity from the LED. During the power cut, it speeded up its flash rate and brightened. I joked that because it's a blue LED people might think the emergency services were at our house....the light was that much brighter than any other time where the kitchen main light is off. However, was it just my eyesight having changed because of the low general light everywhere else, to make it seem so bright. That doesn't explain the speed up, from 1 per second to 3 per second. The thing also reacts to storms moving in, but anyway, just an observation.



 

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #137 on: June 09, 2018, 11:21:32 PM »
   Guys:   
   I think that I found the perfect substitute for the led bulb that the Doc is using. It works great as it has a glass enclosure with a reflective metal lining, and does the same type of capacitive effect that Doctor Stiffler is showing.  I will add the two IN4148 diodes to complete the circuit,  and I'll show it running in the next video.   
  It's a 120v, with 24 leds, but it doesn't say what wattage it may be, in any case it seams to work for what we need it to do.
  Although the reflective surface is not touching the leds, it still works fine when capacitively connected to my Kacher circuit.  I don't know how it would work on just 20v, but it is worth looking into it.

   BTW:  Slider, the three leds that stayed lit when I turned off the input to the Kacher circuit during my video, did go out when I turned off my house breakers.
   I think that the red leds that the Doc showed lighting on some of his earlier PSEC videos, may well be lightlng from his stray capacitive AC, as well.   There was a guy that showed 100 leds lighting on his version of the PSEC. Which is the circuit that interests me the most.
It needed No battery, no signal generator, no Tesla coil, no loop (possibly), and it was lighting the 100 leds, on just a ground line. Which probably means that it's not just lighting all those 100 leds from the stray AC.  I believe.
However, that particular video is not on YT any more, as far as I can see.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #137 on: June 09, 2018, 11:21:32 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2018, 12:54:32 AM »
Hello Nick,
With careful handling the wires, you may wish to measure the AC current from the 120V mains if you wish. You surely have a DMM that is able to measure AC current.  This way the power of the LED lamp could be estimated pretty close. 
Isn't the type of the lamp printed on the body? 
The 24 LEDs if they are all in series have about 77 V added up forward voltage drop if they are around 3.2-3.3 V each.  If this is so, then there has to be a input voltage reducing circuit inside, probably with a dedicated linear regulator, after a diode bridge and puffer capacitor.   

Gyula

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2018, 02:33:50 AM »
   Here is an image of the HUNTER led bulb lighting capacitively off of my Kacher/Tesla Coil. 
Yes,  Gyula, there is a capacitor or maybe a big resistor inside the bulb, but looks like no actual circuit,  from what I can see through the glass bulb.  Although I can't see much,  because there is nothing else in there.
  Sorry,  but I'm not able to attach the image of the bulb firing up, here.   
  I'll attach it on my next post, below.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2018, 02:33:50 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #140 on: June 10, 2018, 02:38:41 AM »
      Hi again: No luck uploading the image from my phone.
   Had to use my PC to post this pic below, so here it is.
   The bulb just touching the plastic insulator, on the aluminum heat sink that's behind it.   I don't need to hold the bulb, or connect a ground clip to anywhere on that bulb, and it's quite bright. 
   Once I add the two diodes, I'll do another video.
         
                                                                                      NickZ
.

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #141 on: June 10, 2018, 05:13:04 AM »
Neat bulb...is it perhaps the way the outer case surrounds the LED's that causes such good running ?
Oh, I did something related to your memory of the 100 LED's Nick, that was the Pigeon Loft series. It used a switched off wall adapter and several coils etc a little like Dr. Stiffler's PSEC. It also used an Earth Ground via a wire running outside through a room window to a stake. There were 18 LED's on that, not quite as good as whomever did the other, but was a fun set of experiments and may be worth a revisit.

Have just uploaded a vid of the Colpitts now soldered.....it still works with the missing cap. Did have to add a couple of turns though to the L1 to get it down from 20Mhz to 13.6Mhz.
The vid also shows my build of Lidmotor's crystal oscillator circuit. Only had a 27MHz and a 33MHz. The vid shows the 27MHz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Me4b5XJfKrQ
(2min 36sec)

Here's a pic of the Pigeon Loft
And the vid from 2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_0EufPJwJ0


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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #141 on: June 10, 2018, 05:13:04 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #142 on: June 10, 2018, 06:53:51 PM »
   Well, Slider,
   Concerning the Pigeon Loft,  it was getting through there "somehow".  Now you know that it can be called stray capacitive AC. 
Turn off the breakers... watch what happens. That's why I showed it lighting those three leds, on my video, with no input. But, there is an input, isn't there?    So, guys don't get fooled, who know how many leds will light on stray AC. 

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #143 on: June 11, 2018, 12:13:56 AM »
Hi Nick,

It is good you found that LED lamps with reflective surface are also able to give light by capacitive coupling too, this shows that surface mount LEDs with metal (Alu or copper) back plate may not be neccessarily needed.
This is certainly a step forward and it remains to be tested which of the two types: the SMD LEDs with Alu plate only 0.3 - 0.5 mm behind the LEDs or the reflective surface around the LEDs needs higher RF energy or they can perform more or less equally well with RF excitation.
I found 12 V DC spotlight LEDs with very similarly looking reflective surface like your lamp has, see this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/362128562522    and such spot lights exists with SMD type LEDs too:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/282232157780    and also for AC 110 V of course: https://www.ebay.com/itm/201750169799   

Normally, such spot lamps you show with those LED types are probably rated for 2-3 W power consumption. Assigning 25 mA for a LED out of any of the 24, with 3.3 V forward voltage the power involved calculates to around 2 W. Obviously there are higher power spot lamps, mainly with SMD LED types though. You can check AC current for your lamp if you wish.

Thanks,
Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #143 on: June 11, 2018, 12:13:56 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #144 on: June 11, 2018, 12:26:05 AM »
Hi Slider,

Thanks for the video on the oscillators.  Would like to notice these:
--The ferrite cored oscillator coil is surely mutually coupled to the big air core coil  I think, a higher distance should be insured so that no any coupling could happen between them, except for the single wire connection.

--The air core coil should have a self resonant frequency the oscillator has: i.e. you need to sweep the oscillator frequency to find it and this should happen at around the 13.5 MHz or thereabouts. (if the Doc's test is to be explored, that is.)  I do not know whether you tuned the oscillator frequency to the self resonance frequency of the air core coil. 
I know you are aware of this but the close placement of the two coils may mutually influence each other and eventually the air core coil should not receive energy by mutual coupling to the oscillator coil.

--Regarding the crystal oscillator, the 27 MHz frequency is not recommended by the Doc, I think he mentioned this in one of his videos.

But this oscillator is a good learning tool, here is why. Such crystal oscillators give out square waves or distorted sine waves, (you may have checked directly the output waveform)  and I think this explains why the probe LED (AV plug) attached to the pick-up coil next to the big air coil (which partially has the ferrite rod) remains lit when you move out the ferrite from the coil.
It remains lit because the crystal oscillator provides a signal surely rich in harmonics and some of such harmonically related components are able to light dimly the LED.
It is also possible that the pick-up coil itself also resonates from a component and feeds the single LED AV plug.

In an extreme case, even the other pick-up coil you call as the sniffer coil and use for the scope may be in resonance somewhere, tuned by the 15 pF input capacitance of the probe.

One more thing: you find a 9 MHz resonance somehow (with one position of the ferrite rod) while the coils are driven by 27 Mhz and the harmonics. One thing is sure: out of the 3 coils (the sniffer, or the ferrite rod tuned or the pick-up coil driving the AV plug) has a resonance at 9 MHz: thus a subharmonic (one third of 27 MHz) is amplified by resonance. And due to the mutually close positions of the 3 coils, when you move the ferrite rod, you willy-nilly tune all the 3 coils I think due to the EM coupling between them (all the 3 coils are placed parallel wrt each other lengthwise).

Hope this helps.  8)
Gyula

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #145 on: June 11, 2018, 07:16:14 AM »
Nick - Yep, nowadays I know about AC coupling, but the idea in the vid was to show that no DC voltage was coming through the wall adapter. Simply had no idea to differentiate the 2 sources for knowledgeable folks. It looks odd now I can quite agree.

Gyula - Many thanks again for the comprehensive breakdown !
Willy-nilly is something i'm learning to avoid lol, though it is present in many of my videos.
The 27MHz crystal is the only working one here. But that thing is suspect. Direct connections to it with the scope and no coils around still shows the 9MHz.
Yes, it's a distorted sine  :)
The 33MHz has a big dent in the top. It was tried and the input LED comes on without blowing, but there's no signal output. I'd imagine the crystal itself is in tiny pieces, but the supporting circuitry is still ok.
The sniffer coil is just a copy of something seen on someone elses video years ago. It does work well for giving the correct frequency. The wave shape can be somewhat distorted and of course, the amplitude increases with proximity toward the source. The person in the video called it a sniffer, so sniffer it got named. 
Good point about individually tuning the coils...which will be done.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #145 on: June 11, 2018, 07:16:14 AM »
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Online AlienGrey

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #146 on: June 11, 2018, 12:38:12 PM »
Nick - Yep, nowadays I know about AC coupling, but the idea in the vid was to show that no DC voltage was coming through the wall adapter. Simply had no idea to differentiate the 2 sources for knowledgeable folks. It looks odd now I can quite agree.

Gyula - Many thanks again for the comprehensive breakdown !
Willy-nilly is something i'm learning to avoid lol, though it is present in many of my videos.
The 27MHz crystal is the only working one here. But that thing is suspect. Direct connections to it with the scope and no coils around still shows the 9MHz.
Yes, it's a distorted sine  :)
The 33MHz has a big dent in the top. It was tried and the input LED comes on without blowing, but there's no signal output. I'd imagine the crystal itself is in tiny pieces, but the supporting circuitry is still ok.
The sniffer coil is just a copy of something seen on someone elses video years ago. It does work well for giving the correct frequency. The wave shape can be somewhat distorted and of course, the amplitude increases with proximity toward the source. The person in the video called it a sniffer, so sniffer it got named. 
Good point about individually tuning the coils...which will be done.
Some crystals are low power for battery applications like in 32678khz series you don't drive them the same way as brute force. The 27khz isn't it a 1/3 over tone for 9mhz if you want 27mhz you might need a tank coil (in some cases) ?

How I did it if you use a CD4093  Scmitt trigger (most of them will run at 15mhz easy 10 -12 will do it) , normally the gate output goes through a 2k2 to the 1Meg across the crystal back into the gate input as per normal with tuning caps to 0 volts to trim, if that doesn't work properly yo need to get rid of some of the power just use 2 red leds 1.2v type back to
back in parallel with a 0.1 cap in one of the leads to 0 volts that always works for me.
AG
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 08:41:23 PM by AlienGrey »

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #147 on: June 11, 2018, 06:41:56 PM »
Hi Slider,

The sniffer coil designation is okay with me, as I know it is used in the jargon to refer to probing, detecting EM field and pick it up.

I agree with AlienGray on the possible 3rd overtone operation, the internal crystal is able to oscillate at 9 MHz too and the output pin may need an LC tank tuned to 27 MHz. The tank should be connected between its output pin and its positive supply pin (or, albeit unlikely, between the output pin and the negative supply pin).

The best would be if you could connect first say a 1 kOhm resistor between the output pin and the positive supply. If it is an open collector, then you might see a nicer sine wave across the resistor,  probably still at 9 MHZ, riding on a certain DC level, the scope would show that. And if you see improvement in the wave shape and it remains at 9MHz, then a 27 MHz LC tank would help to suppress the 9 MHz and enhance the 27 MHz output.

A tank circuit for 27 MHz involves less than 1 uH coil (0.74 uH) if the parallel capacitor is say 47 pF (consider scope probe self capacitance is around 15 pF already when checking the tank waveform).  If there is a label printed on top of the oscillator body and it includes type number of manufacturer then it may be worth to do a google search on it.

Notice on crystal oscillators: if you or someone else have motherboards from old personal computers or laptops put aside or just collecting dust in a junk box, they usually have some onboard crystals and/or crystal oscillators that might be close to 13.5 or could be divided down. Just by pure luck, that is...

Gyula

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #148 on: June 11, 2018, 06:52:19 PM »
27 MHz is of course quite close to the ten-meter amateur radio band (28 MHz - 29.7 MHz) and also is straddled by the CB radio band (26.9650 MHz to 27.4050 MHz).
Experimenters in the USA especially should beware of putting too much power into their little radio transmitters. You just might get a visit from the FCC ! (I can attest that those folks are serious about what they do.) SO if you see an unmarked white van with a few antennas on the roof cruising your neighborhood...

 :P

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #149 on: June 11, 2018, 11:04:43 PM »
   What about ordering the right crystal 13.4MHz, or as close to it as possible.
   I agree with TK that you might be tuning into Radio Moscow, instead, @27MHz. Doc said that is not the right frequency...  Or not?

   I think that getting the same led bulbs, is critical. Otherwise zilch, on AC bulbs, unless you use the same type, like the Doc is showing. Makeshift don't cut it, here. Got to have the metal backing,  or low voltage (24v) input apacitance will not light the AC bulbs. Nor it looks like, most any other led boards, without adding a ground line in there. But, the Doc's circuit needs no ground line, nor having to touch the bulbs, for them to light up.   There lies the difference.
  Gyula, I think that this type of tests are very very critically frequency dependent, to see any positive OU results. Otherwise capacitance is just another way to light some LEDs.

 

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