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Author Topic: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology  (Read 129939 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #120 on: June 06, 2018, 07:26:26 PM »
Hi Nick,
Okay and just carry on, and hopefully a heatsink i.e. an appropiately sized metal plate fastened thoroughly onto the back of the LED board may also do the 'trick'.  Try not to leave as small air gap between the back plane of the board and the heatsink, that would insure a close coupling and  when it works then you may adjust the in-between 'gap' by inserting some pices of paper sheets to see whether it infuences the effect or not.

Hi Slider,
Well, building the 14 MHz oscillator, it is always casual for an LC oscillator where it actually would work for the fist switch-on, but you can then trim as needed.
If you pronounce the word " due " with UK and not US style that would sound pretty close to the first syllable " Gyu " in my name and simply add the " la " after it, ok?   8)     Thanks,   Gyula

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #120 on: June 06, 2018, 07:26:26 PM »

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #121 on: June 07, 2018, 06:53:08 AM »
Have just posted a sort of roundup video on the various circuits being built and tried out here.
But also found that there were wireless possibilities with a Jeanna's Light.
Most boosters, even JT's will do wireless things with no load, but I had never tried that one.
Was looking for a simple well known circuit for adding a tunable output, with some upscaling from a low input. See, to me, we can start at any voltage and end up with 20V+, but frequency adjustment is more difficult.
The Jeanna's Light circuit isn't very tunable and runs at a terrible frequency for our purposes, 48kHz.
However, it does have simplicity and wireless uses in its favour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8xJUQF1ROk
(3min 44sec)

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #122 on: June 08, 2018, 02:40:09 AM »
   I have not been able to obtain any positive result with the Stiffer loop by placing an aluminum plate behind the led board.  The SG will light the bulbs when it is directly connected but not by using the capacities link.
  My signal generator can light an led emergency light with 64 leds on it no problem,  and quite brightly, but not even a single led capacitively.  Voltage is about 3 or 4 volts from the SG, with enough current to light the 64 led lights, but the capacitive loop needs the 20 or more volts to light the bulbs,  and won't do anything on 3 volts.

   However,  by connecting up my Tesla coil circuit on a 12v input,  the capacitive link works. It probably puts out 1000v to the multi led bulb.  Talk about over driving that bulb...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2018, 05:04:34 AM by NickZ »

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #122 on: June 08, 2018, 02:40:09 AM »
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Offline Lidmotor

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Crystal Oscillator Exciter
« Reply #123 on: June 08, 2018, 07:41:45 PM »
Good News.  I found my old 13.6829 MHz oscillator and replicated that 2013 experiment.  I changed a few things and used a ferrite rod tunable coil.  It is basically a backwards way of doing what Dr. Stiffler is doing.  The 13MHz signal stays constant and the coil is tuned.  This was a fascinating experiment because I am driving the led through a thin band of aluminum around the plastic led and virtually grounding the AV plug to a block of aluminum. I'm not sure if this experiment proves anything.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nDjoVB2UVE

Cheers,
            Rusty

Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #124 on: June 08, 2018, 08:24:00 PM »
   Lidmotor:   Now you need to see if the oscillator crystal will light a bigger led bulb, using the capacitive link.
   I found that I could not light a bigger bulb using the capacitance link by using my signal generator's input source. As it's too weak (at 3v) to light bigger bulbs. The Doc is using a 20v input, and obtaining about 61 volts output, to the led bulb. I believe.
   
  I think that you'll find that without the big heat sink, there is no light, or very little light coming out of the single led. So, the  heatsink grounding, may not be a true "loop". Or is it? As the Doc does not need to connect to a heat sink, of course, it's because he is using much higher voltage, and who knows what the actual current readings are being drawn. So far he has not been able show any OU. So, whatever his secret is, it is still unknown, at least to me.

   I hope that the Doc provides more useful information, than just being able to light an led board with less input.
As his PSEC circuit could partially light 50 led, with no input source, just an earth ground line connected to it.
So, how is this loop idea going to be something actually useful?  He has mentioned that he is going somewhere with all of this.So, I hope to see that sometime soon.   I am uploading another new video, so watch for the link in my next post.

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #124 on: June 08, 2018, 08:24:00 PM »
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Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #125 on: June 08, 2018, 09:36:19 PM »
Nick - If the PSEC running 50 LED's was the 3 tuned coils and outdoors Ground, then I think we're all learning how to do such things. It's gradual, along the way learning tricks and tips. At some point someone is going to walk in with a PSEC 2 ?!
 

Congrats Rusty !
THAT is exactly what's needed as a circuit for anyone to try. It has the right output frequency, is tunable and could switch a fast enough MOSFET for the 20V.
By contrast, I have the 'Hyper Complex Oscillator Exciter' running now. A weirded out Colpitts running at 13.7MHz. It can be tuned up and down from that figure with the addition or subtraction of wire on the L1, but it's nothing like as readily usable as a ferrite choke.
The big difference is that instead of the usual tank with 2 caps, I only have 1 cap and no tank. It was running at about 6MHz and getting a bit warped on the sinewave, until I inadvertently knocked the other cap off the board..breadboard by the way, not a good idea but allowed fast swapping of components.
The cap of a regular Colpitt's tank section that is connected to Vcc is now not even there.
The scope produced a much cleaner 12MHz wave, so I removed another turn and there it was, 13.7MHz. Adding just about 1mm of wire then brought it to 13.6MHz and it goes lower with more wire.

Pic of the thing and a scope shot:


Offline Lidmotor

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The 'LOOP' mystery
« Reply #126 on: June 08, 2018, 09:42:48 PM »
  Nick and Slider you bring up some very good questions.  I don't think Dr. Stiffler is going to help us much now. I think that we are on our own.  As far as this latest effort to replicate his 'Loop' experiments I think this is possible if one has the proper equipment.  He has never claimed that these are OU events but we make the poor assumption that they are. 
  I found this 2008 paper he wrote (with lots of pics) on electrolysis using a SEC 15-3.  There are some spectrum screen shots showing the spikes.  Besides 13.6 MHZ there is another one a 10.6 MHz.  http://www.tuks.nl/Mirror/Dr_Stiffler/SECElectrolysis.htm.html

   Slider ---You are right there sitting at that frequency in a perfect sine wave.  You should be able to replicate the Doc's exact experiment.  If not then the question is --why?

---Rusty

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The 'LOOP' mystery
« Reply #126 on: June 08, 2018, 09:42:48 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #127 on: June 08, 2018, 10:03:06 PM »
Hi Lidmotor,

I think your test approaches that of Dr Stiffler in that you excite a LED capacitively by an RF field and it is able to emit light when at the same time you close its circuit pins with the two diodes.

I would suggest one thing if I may: wrap up say two (instead of the one) such white LEDs into the Alu foil or stripe (whatever you use) and connect their pins in series +-+- to add up their forward voltages and then connect the two diodes to them properly too. Perhaps the two LEDs would be able to light up too, no need to change the 9V supply to the oscillator.

If you do not have info on the ferrite rod RF performance what frequency it was manufactured for then you may lose resonant power in the coil. It is very convenient to tune the coil with it for sure. Perhaps a second, smaller air core coil coupled to the main coil could tune out the setup without the ferrite core. Just a thought.

Later,
Gyula

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #128 on: June 08, 2018, 11:14:15 PM »
Have posted a quick video, showing the weird Colpitt's running, the circuit diagram and the scope showing the frequency and waveform.
Also, a Captret type of method of lighting an LED on an AV plug from the circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxcyTwj6YEw
(2min 54sec)

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #128 on: June 08, 2018, 11:14:15 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #129 on: June 09, 2018, 12:35:25 AM »
Hi Slider,

Okay on the oscillator, finally you have it, it looks like a grounded base circuit with feedback between collector and emitter, and the tuning capacitor of L1 is C2 (this gives the feedback at the same time too) via C3.  So you still have a parallel tank,  L1 C2, the parallel connection comes about via C3, then via the emitter point and via the 5 V supply, AC wise.
Stability comes from the relatively high value of C2, 0.3 nF for resonating L1 at around 13-14 MHz. Generally such feedback capacitor needs to be less than 15 - 22 pF value between emitter and collector, this high value explains why the other cap is not needed and why the frequency changes so much for a small amount of wire removal in L1.
I do not think you would need to change anything in this oscillator, maybe the DC operational point of the transistor could be checked by varying R2 by using a 10 kOhm trimmer potmeter and watch the output on the scope, switch on and off the supply voltage to see how safely it starts up etc. A very fine tuning in frequency may be had by placing say 3-12 pF trimmer cap across the coil (or across the emitter resistor...).  Perhaps you need to remove a half turn still if you wish to use that small value trimmer cap for fine tuning.

Does the big coil you drive with the oscillator via the single wire resonates at the oscillator frequency? It could be checked by placing the scope probe near to that coil to pick up the waves capacitively and see voltage maximum as the oscillator is fine tuned.
Thanks for mentioning me in the previous video, it is fine.   8)

Gyula

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The 'LOOP' mystery
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2018, 12:41:23 AM »
....

   Slider ---You are right there sitting at that frequency in a perfect sine wave.  You should be able to replicate the Doc's exact experiment.  If not then the question is --why?

---Rusty
Well, does Slider or others have the Cree LED board with the heatsink on its back side the Doc uses?  (sorry if I missed it and he has...).  What forward voltage the LEDs on the board have? do we know?  And the board was made for 110 V or 12 V operation?   I think these would be good to know for a more succesful replication.
Gyula

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Re: The 'LOOP' mystery
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2018, 12:41:23 AM »
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Offline NickZ

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #131 on: June 09, 2018, 01:34:21 AM »
   Guys:   Here's another new video that I just uploaded.   https://youtu.be/j0B6WyRFPsA
   
   I'll try to find an led with the metal heat sink, in the meantime, this is what I could come up with.
   I don't think that there is much difference in placing aluminum behind the led board, compared to the leds with built in heat sinks. Remember what the Doc said about MASS of the aluminum. More mass, more better...
   I will also try to find some more IN4148 diodes, as some of the ones that I'm using are the H48, which also should be compatible. But, who knows.   I had forgotten to show on the video a neon bulb, lighting up to 6 inches away from the aluminum heat sink. And I'm only running the Kacher on 1/2 it's normal 24v input. That was so it won't hurt as bad when I get hit by it's HV. I'm sure that if I left the circuit running, the leds would all go up in smoke. So, I dropped the input to 12v, and have the power on for only a minute.
   
   Gyula: If you have any more suggestions, I'm all ears. As I'm running out of things to try out.
   I think that adding a ground wire or touching the leds to make them light up better is NOT the way to go.
   It may be that the IN4148 diodes are only letting a limited amount of current through them, (150mA), so the high voltage may just be jumping them, through surface charge. You have a point there. So, the capacitive link is the only way that Docs 13 watt bulbs would be able to light. Placing the finger on the bulbs, kills that process by grounding it, instead. Me thinks... 
   Anyways, let me know what you guys think.
   

Offline Lidmotor

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Doc's Cree Bulb
« Reply #132 on: June 09, 2018, 02:31:27 AM »
Slider, Nick, and Guyla
  I cannot get any of my 110v led bulb arrays to light up  >:( .    Something is amiss.  Perhaps that Cree bulb Doc has is part of this mystery???  The bulbs I have taken apart have electronic components mounted on the board like what Nick showed in his last video.  I can partially light up a 12v led array with an Al heat sink ---but that is about it.

----Lidmotor

Offline Slider2732

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #133 on: June 09, 2018, 03:30:58 AM »
Thanks Gyula...that was very very useful info. The circuit breakdown was the best i've read too !
I'll use exactly these parts in the build of it on a soldered board. If it carries on running like this then it would negate the thought of the jumper wires carrying some capacitance to make up for the missing one. As you explained it, the circuit should still work.
Will add the trimmer cap once confirmed that it does run when not on the breadboard.

Nick - I think your question about direction links with Lidmotor's thoughts on the Cree bulb innards. The company is known for high quality gear and presumably their LED's are top drawer quality. But wouldn't the 12V bulbs be the same as the mains ones at the LED's themselves ?
Or, is the wire-up different, more of them in parallel etc.
Anyone got a 12V bulb to compare against ?

Am currently hunting around for 4 pin oscillator modules to give Lidmotor's circuit a try :) 

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Dr Ronald Stiffler SEC technology
« Reply #134 on: June 09, 2018, 02:56:30 PM »
Hi Nick,

Would like to show you a printed circuit board (that are used in some LED lamp types) that has a back side fully covered with Aluminium plate serving as a heat sink. See this link, the photo shows the component side and the back side of the LED boards: https://www.ebay.com/itm/310997850830   
or see this crescent shape board here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/301741590729   
And the Doc attached the single wire coming from the air core coil roughly to the center of the Alu surface of the LED board. As you show your arrangement with the heat sink (at video time 1:20 for instance) it cannot mimick the closeness of the Alu plate to the surface mount LEDs on the  board the Doc uses or the links show.

Another problem with your small LED panel (that has the 10 LEDs) is that the LEDs are not SMD types so their internal P-N junction can only be RF excited similarly to an SMD type only if you wrap their body up directly with Alu foil (like Lidmotor did with a single LED). Yet, the wrapping up several such cylindrical shaped LEDs is cumbersome and may have questionable results versus the flatly mounted junctions of the SMD LEDs. These latter can receive equal RF field excitations from the back plate of the LED board, that would be important I think.
I draw you attention to another capacitive RF energy coupling method the Doc used, see his earlier video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIcaDtSUT3I 
To do this, you would need a not faulty SMD LED board with the Alu back plate and then attempt to couple it carefully to your Tesla coil (notice what Doc says on the AV plug connection). Probably this setup was the start for RF exciting the SMD LEDs capacitively for him, evolving further on as he showed the SG driven variations instead of the SEC driven method. 
For your long Tesla coil, consider this 25 cm long PCB board offer and you would need to populate it with (14) SMD LEDs: https://www.ebay.com/itm/302686700141  For the SMD LEDs, see here say 0.5W types and you would need to solder them onto the boards: https://www.ebay.com/itm/252485708198   Of course there are higher power SMD LED types. 

But you may find boards with already populated SMD LEDs but you need to ask the seller whether the board has the Alu back plate or not. I think where there is, then it is either mentioned or not in the title.
I think that any other additional component (IC, diode bridge, resistor) should be left out from a ready made LED lamp board and only the two wires of the series connected LED string should be brought out and close their circuit with the two 1N4148 diodes.

You can connect 2 or 3 1N4148 (or 1N914) diodes in parallel and use two such diode assembly in series for closing the LEDs circuit as needed, this increases their current handling capability for higher current demands. Your H48 types seem also good here, it is similar to the 1N4148 indeed. I do not think the high voltage is jumping them: they either conduct when AC polarity just forward biases them or do not conduct when AC polarity reverse biases them.  And when the rated forward current or reverse voltage is exceeded, they simply fail and become either a piece of wire (short circuit) or an open circuit. 

I found the ebay LED boards (I included above) only a few hours ago and the 5730 type SMD LEDs has roughly 150 mA current at 3.2 V forward voltage (roughly half a Watt input for any one such LED).  I think the LED type used on a particular LED PCB is printed on the PCB board ID number which may start with  two letters and followed by 4 digits, then a dash and also some digits: the 4 digits refer to the LED chip used.  IF you have this, then usually there are data sheets on them from which the forward voltage and current for the type can be learned. Then considering the number of LEDs on the board and any additional circuit involved, the input voltage and possible power level could be figured out.

Gyula

 

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