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Author Topic: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha  (Read 9801 times)

Offline Ed morbus

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2017, 06:03:14 PM »
Nelson Rocha

What is the value C 5

and thanks for sharing

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Grumage

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2017, 08:28:11 PM »
Nelson Rocha

What is the value C 5

and thanks for sharing

Dear Ed morbus.

Here's a link to the schematic.

http://overunity.com/17220/n-r-m-r-e-an-investigation/msg503861/#msg503861

The value is 47 microfarad @50 Volts.

Cheers Grum.

Offline Ed morbus

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2017, 08:37:03 PM »
Thanks for infomation and link

on test I have one watt led on trafo out 220v side and on second charging 12v battery
with 6v four AA battery

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2017, 08:37:03 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Acca

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Offline icarus

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2017, 09:47:42 AM »
I link a new self-explanatory video of my experiments with Nelson's circuit.

https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=Dhin8Fji_vo

For Padova: You're right there was a mistake in the schematic, which I corrected as you will see at the beginning of the video.
For TK (if still at least you lurk here): I put some scopeshot

As somebody suggested I tried to use some inductances perpendicular to the toroid,
connected as per Vortex1 schematic, obtaining only slight oscillation frequency variations (not in the video).

In total I have built 3 of these circuits with same basic components but different size of toroid and transformer. 
Each one behaves in a slightly different way: all oscillate but at different frequencies and with different shapes of waves
and they consume energy is different.
In my experience any NPN transistor like tip31 tip41 tip122 or other are ok: the waveform is the same, the output is the same.

A strange experience I discovered with an open lamellar transformer (not in epoxy resin bath)
is to feel ozone's smell: the copper band around the transformer in one of Nelson's videos
does it possibly capture these lost ions?  And then what do we do?

I also tried to charge a condenser with a diode plug like Nelson at minute 1 of this video

http://Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3CjCNeH8rE

and the capacitor charge, slowly but becomes charged.

All this is fine, but I feel like a dead end.

At this point new ideas are needed, the circuit is under our nose maybe we should not focus only on this but we have to
think about what to do with the energy we get.

One last note: I can not understand how anyone can argue in this way.  Not even the children ...
Three threads ....  Why ?

MAC

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2017, 09:47:42 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Ed morbus

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2017, 09:53:13 AM »
Mac link not working

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2017, 03:31:11 PM »
Dear Icarus

I added the inductor in my redraw of the circuit per the observation of the axial inductor by user Zephir. It is his belief that this added inducter assists the main toroid by helping it to become a paramatric oscillator i.e. the inductance of the main toroid is controlled by the small axial inductor.

It is my belief that there may be too little effect to form a parametric oscillator, but we shall see.

I might add that user partzman and Mr. Fred Epps have performed an exhaustive study and made very exacting measurements of parametric inductor control in an oscillator circuit and have not found there to be any hint of excess power by such a configuration.
Perhaps Mr. NR has some other method that is different and yields results.

I wish to note that in his schematic TK has the  inductor  in a different  position i.e. between the collector and the CW winding of the toroid.

 The extra axial inductor (if it is assumed to be the wire that looks like it is passing through the core on the original NR drawing)  goes from the collector out to the driven devices, i.e. the step up transformer and charger bridge rectifier. This is an important difference. The collector as seen in the original NR drawing connects directly to the CW winding of the toroid.

You can try the inductor in either location, but I doubt that it will have much effect. To have a larger effect it would have to be be positioned such that it is better coupled to the toroid core as in an image posted by Zephir with a half core glued to the toroid.

I might add that it is not unusual to get ozone from the output of the step up transformer, as the peak voltage can get quite high on the secondary of the so called "radiant" output.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In drawing schematics, it would be really good if everyone would try to conform to the industry standard conventions of :

1) inputs are on the left of the drawing, including power connections
2) outputs are on the right of the drawing
3) positive power rail across the top of the drawing
4) negative power rail (or circuit common ground) across the bottom of the drawing*
5) everything else is hung between these connection points or rails.

* if there is a negative bias supply it is to be drawn beneath the circuit common.

This makes it much easier to analyze signal and power flows when studying the circuit.

I have attempted to demonstrate this art in my redraw of NR's original sketch.

It will also make your drawings look more professional as well as easier to communicate to others. With time and practice, you will be able to read any such drawing easily, without having to untangle it in your mind.

As far as possible your breadboard will then be made to conform as far as possible to the layout of the schematic drawing, making for very easy testing and troubleshooting.

Just a suggestion.

Kind Regards
Vortex1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2017, 03:31:11 PM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2017, 09:11:53 PM »
Quote from: Ed morbus
Mac link not working

Try this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhin8Fji_vo

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2017, 09:20:24 PM »
Dear Vortex1,

Something to think about with the two electrolytic capacitors connected in front of the
base of the TIP122...

Is it written anywhere that the two connections on a capacitor must be charged with
opposite charge?  What would happen if you applied like-charge to each plate?  So
instead of opposite charges attracting within the capacitor, they are repelling.

Just something to ponder...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2017, 09:20:24 PM »
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Offline shylo

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2017, 11:08:59 PM »
Just create a path for both charges to flow at the same time, but use them at different times.
artv

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2017, 04:56:18 AM »
Dear Vortex1,

Something to think about with the two electrolytic capacitors connected in front of the
base of the TIP122...

Is it written anywhere that the two connections on a capacitor must be charged with
opposite charge?  What would happen if you applied like-charge to each plate?  So
instead of opposite charges attracting within the capacitor, they are repelling.

Just something to ponder...

OK I'll ponder that, Matt. My first impression is to create charge you must flow current into the capacitor and have a potential difference between the plates. So how do you apply like charge to each terminal? if Charge implies a potential difference between plates  this must be Nelson's top semantic secret. You could try shorting the two ends of the capacitor then they will have the same (0) charge. You could also elevate the capacitor to a few hundred volts with respect to earth ground with the leads tied together and the capacitor will be "like" charged on each plate with respect to ground.....but I know that's not what you are looking for soooo........ask Nelson.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Regarding C3, the first capacitor, since it has a diode D2 in series it will charge to some positive value with respect to it's negative terminal  and then just sit there with that charge in place since there is no way for the +charge to go back out, it is blocked by the diode. It's internal leakage would  cause a very slight drop in charge over time, except for the fact that it is being replenished very slightly on each cycle when the diode is forward biased.  The charge just sits in the capacitor with nowhere to go, like it would in a half wave rectifier with no load on it.

At one point I mused that Nelson might be using the diode capacitance as part of a Drift Step Recovery configuration, using the capacitance of the diode to generate fast pulses, but that didn't wash because the pulses would be absorbed by the other capacitor C4.

Regarding the C4 capacitor with the R1 pot across it, this one will charge at the rate of current delivery from the coil and discharge at the RC time constant of the potentiometer setting.
The charging current for this capacitor is a function of supply voltage and duty cycle. This capacitor has an good chance of frying the base of the first transistor in the Darlington pair, since there is nothing to limit the high peak current if the voltage supply input is turned up too far. 120 mA is the max gate current allowed on that base.
The other problem is there is nothing to limit current into the base when the voltage reverses, so the 5 volt reverse limit may be exceeded again taking out the base.

I'm sure Nelson probably had very good reasons for designing it that way, so someone should talk to him and find out why he would stress the parts in such a manner. If only a couple of volts of supply are used, probably not a problem but 12 to 24 volts it probably would fail over time.

Now my question to you if I may ask:
 What exactly are the operating specifications for this circuit, power input, voltage input, charger power output and HV power output? Also what type loads is it designed to drive? or is it just to demonstrate that you can charge a capacitor with a wire to the HV or light a neon lamp (400uA).

Kind Regards

P.S. You might wish to ask Nelson to put phasing dots on his schematics besides just being good form it is very helpful for replicators. As you are aware, the operation of the oscillator is quite different with the phase reversed so it is good to know which mode you are shooting for.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2017, 04:56:18 AM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2017, 08:52:24 AM »
OK I'll ponder that, Matt. My first impression is to create charge you must flow current into the capacitor and have a potential difference between the plates. So how do you apply like charge to each terminal? if Charge implies a potential difference between plates  this must be Nelson's top semantic secret. You could try shorting the two ends of the capacitor then they will have the same (0) charge. You could also elevate the capacitor to a few hundred volts with respect to earth ground with the leads tied together and the capacitor will be "like" charged on each plate with respect to ground.....but I know that's not what you are looking for soooo........

I mentioned it because of Jack's comment in his thread.  He declares three states of charge:  positive, negative and neutral.   This is a variation I guess I either took for granted or didn't conceptualize well.  When we talk about stray capacitance, stray to what?  A neutral charge potential or something else?

I recall all the electrostatic videos with the Leyden Jar & electrometer, but never seemed to think of it in common electronic circuits.  Maybe because we rarely have those levels of voltages associated.  But when we compress a quantity of energy release into microseconds or shorter, something has to drastically increase.


Regarding C3, the first capacitor, since it has a diode D2 in series it will charge to some positive value with respect to it's negative terminal  and then just sit there with that charge in place since there is no way for the +charge to go back out, it is blocked by the diode. It's internal leakage would  cause a very slight drop in charge over time, except for the fact that it is being replenished very slightly on each cycle when the diode is forward biased.  The charge just sits in the capacitor with nowhere to go, like it would in a half wave rectifier with no load on it.

At one point I mused that Nelson might be using the diode capacitance as part of a Drift Step Recovery configuration, using the capacitance of the diode to generate fast pulses, but that didn't wash because the pulses would be absorbed by the other capacitor C4.

You also have the standard diode voltage drop which may somehow be used for proper biasing.  But your DSR thought may be right on track.


Regarding the C4 capacitor with the R1 pot across it, this one will charge at the rate of current delivery from the coil and discharge at the RC time constant of the potentiometer setting.
The charging current for this capacitor is a function of supply voltage and duty cycle. This capacitor has an good chance of frying the base of the first transistor in the Darlington pair, since there is nothing to limit the high peak current if the voltage supply input is turned up too far. 120 mA is the max gate current allowed on that base.
The other problem is there is nothing to limit current into the base when the voltage reverses, so the 5 volt reverse limit may be exceeded again taking out the base.

I'm sure Nelson probably had very good reasons for designing it that way, so someone should talk to him and find out why he would stress the parts in such a manner. If only a couple of volts of supply are used, probably not a problem but 12 to 24 volts it probably would fail over time.

He did mention he has never had any component failures in his tuned version.  So I have to suspect for anyone that has wrecked components, something isn't quite right.


Now my question to you if I may ask:
 What exactly are the operating specifications for this circuit, power input, voltage input, charger power output and HV power output? Also what type loads is it designed to drive? or is it just to demonstrate that you can charge a capacitor with a wire to the HV or light a neon lamp (400uA).

For power input I set the current limit way down and bring the voltage up slowly from about two volts.  As you slowly increase input, adjust the pot in between small voltage steps.  At some point below ~9 volts, you will see a characteristic change in behavior.  Instead of an oscillator, the circuit becomes a pulse generator.  It's this pulse generator I assume Nelson wants us to study and see the effects it is able to manifest.  In my testing, I only went a volt or two higher from when I saw the behavior change, so I don't know what might happen beyond that.  Maybe that's how people are blowing components.

If you look closely at this video, you will begin to recognized what Nelson has morphed his pulse generator into.  Then if you look at his most recent videos, you'll see what he is able to do with this concept.  Maybe I'm just overly optimistic or clairvoyant, but I see the progression clearly.  I see the improved (higher power) pulse generator and his method of harnessing those pulses via his pancake coils, which all goes back to Jack's open ended bifilar coils.  Now whether Nelson and Jack are actually doing the same thing or not...?   I can't say, but if they are, a lot pieces fall into place.

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2017, 07:45:08 PM »
With an  open mind I will give the videos another good look per your suggestion.

I do think this would all be a lot easier for the attempts at replication if a good document were put together(like Jack's) rather than all the guesswork, but I'll keep my opinions out of it from here forward.......as Jack Friday would say..."just the facts ma'm".

Kind Regards

 

OneLink