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Author Topic: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha  (Read 9624 times)

Offline Zephir

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2017, 11:24:42 PM »
Quote
This circuit only draws a few milliamps of power

Because you had disconnected the load at the charger output. Without load the circuit can oscillate, but after then the T1 cannot generate the output, because its primary circuit will not be closed. Anyway, the T1 primary and L1-T1 coil represents just a short thick wire, connected directly to T1 collector. It will short the source too even without any load. But you missed the L1-T1 coil in your replica too, so you were saved from this scenario. I think, your transistor got ruined with negative spikes instead, which this circuit doesn't prohibit. Finally, you didn't explain, where the power resistor (which you mentioned in your previous post) should be connected.

Quote
I stressed in Grumage's thread that everyone should build this very simple circuit

So you did it, the circuit died - what next? Don't play smart and try to cooperate. No ones hands will be twisted here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Vortex1

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2017, 11:52:35 PM »
Zephir said:

Quote
Hi Vortex1 - and thank You very much for your circuit and detailed description of it. (http://overunity.com/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
Now I think we have state-of art formulation of the problem and we can start with its analysis.

You are very welcome. Unfortunately there is one missing ingredient that will stifle exact replication and that is the exact core material formulation type for T2. Without that there will be widely varying operation of the circuit. Yes it will work to some degree, but it will not be a true replication. T2 will set the basic operating frequency of the device, and various core formulations will give widely varying frequency of operation.

Maybe I missed it somewhere and the core has been positively identified.

Regards

P.S. I edited my prior post while you were typing.

Offline Zephir

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2017, 12:00:29 AM »
Quote
various core formulations will give widely varying frequency of operation
They undoubtedly will, especially under parametric circuit wiring. I made way simpler Joule Thief circuits and they still behaved wildly under variable load. So that this feature isn't very surprising for me - it deters me from its replication instead. If you could provide some more specific recommendation regarding the core used in original Mr. Rocha's circuit, we all would appreciate for sure. It looks like the MnZn ferrite core PC40 (Y12000 or Y15000 material) from Micrometals or American Magnetics by its green color. You're right, that Nelson Rocha's operates very smoothly. I also noted at his video, the output transformed is shielded with (grounded?) copper foil.

I take your remark about batteries hidden inside the resistor into account, but it's still the last option. I don't think that Mr. Rocha makes fakes. First I want to check the behavior of core under situation, when its saturation during charging will significantly differ from its state during discharging. I just think, that the common Joule Thief circuit isn't the best test bed device for this purpose.

Other than that the multispectral oscillations are traditionally related to scalar waves, Rodin/caduceus coil and overunity circuits. It has also certain physical justification in character of nondispersional solitons - once these solitons will be formed with mixture of many others of multiple wavelengths and amplitudes in a proper fractal ratio, then they will propagate without scattering. So that such a mixture of solitons can propagate at large distance unchanged - for example during tidal bores in Amazonia.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #17 on: April 23, 2017, 12:00:29 AM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2017, 02:36:41 AM »
Dear Vortex1,

Something I would like for you to consider that crossed my mind a few hours ago.

We do not know with certainty the polarity of the 1:1 toroid.  Suppose it was reversed
from our normal understanding of how this device would need to oscillate.  Would it be
possible the TIP122 is sensitive enough for it to see the "recovery overshoot" and trigger
on the one-and-one-half cycle instead of the normal one cycle?

If so, could this be the mechanism for parametric oscillation?

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2017, 03:12:51 AM »
Dear Vortex1,

Something I would like for you to consider that crossed my mind a few hours ago.

We do not know with certainty the polarity of the 1:1 toroid.  Suppose it was reversed
from our normal understanding of how this device would need to oscillate.  Would it be
possible the TIP122 is sensitive enough for it to see the "recovery overshoot" and trigger
on the one-and-one-half cycle instead of the normal one cycle?

If so, could this be the mechanism for parametric oscillation?

Dear Dog-One

You bring up an interesting suggestion. In my experience, blocking oscillators (JT's) when wired "correctly" and that have proper base drive tend to work at one predominant frequency and are quite stable. Wired with the opposite phase, they will have a few much higher frequencies of operation and are very "touchy". They are also not very efficient in this mode.

If NR's device is somehow using the abnormal mode for some reason, that will have to be the subject of a lot of intense benchwork. I do suspect the 4700pF cap is doing something different with the circuit on accident or on purpose.

I also respect Zephir's hypothesis regarding the control of the T2 saturation. You asked if it could contribute to a parametric mode of oscillation...perhaps. I'm a bit perplexed  by the dual path base drive scheme, though it looks like gross overdrive  (current wise) of the base to me. I don't expect the base to survive very long in that circuit. Nothing to limit base current. So don't be surprised if you fry transistors.

I built my first blocking oscillator back in the mid 1950's when the CK722 transistor hit the $0.99 price break for experimenters. It was used for a Halloween prank to light a four foot fluorescent tube (like a light saber) and extort candy door to door from surprised residents. Since then, I've fiddled with JT's from time to time as they call 'em today but being an old timer I still refer to them as blocking oscillators, the generic name most engineers use. I've actually built some blocking oscillators for commercial products back in the day. Funny how everything gets rebranded as something new every couple of decades. So much for my long winded old timer rant. Sorry if off topic, just delete it.

Kind Regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2017, 03:12:51 AM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2017, 03:17:11 AM »

Offline Vortex1

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2017, 04:09:01 AM »
The schematic had two errors which were fixed and re uploaded to the original post as:
 NR ver1.01

A good catch by TK

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2017, 04:09:01 AM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #22 on: April 23, 2017, 08:57:52 AM »
Thank You Vortex1 - I'm reposting it here together with TK's version for clarity.

Offline tinman

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2017, 10:05:23 AM »
Well,it's running  :D

Seems to work ok,and quite stable in my case.

Turning the voltage up above 3v,blows out the neon,when the pot is turned all the way down.

Have not toasted a transistor yet-->yet.
I also went with horizontal coil's,instead of the coil through the center of the toroid.

I do notice about a 20mA decrease in current draw,when those horizontal coils are removed from the circuit,but that also results in a duller NE2.

So now that Vortex has re-drawn the circuit,we can see it is just a JT,with a heap of other part's that would dissipate power-->a loss in other words.

Not seeing anything special about this circuit yet,but only just got it up and running.

Going to build a standard JT,with the same step up transformer on it,and do a side by side comparison.

Video 1 up soon.


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #23 on: April 23, 2017, 10:05:23 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2017, 12:50:03 PM »
Hi everbody ,

I could see by last updates , most are trying lit up neon bulb :)  Is there any special reason for this to happen?
I have already said, and I repeat:
The purpose of this circuit is not to ignite neon bulb lol, even because in the original circuit there is no neon connected at the transformer output, but near the input of the circuit near the capacitor C5 maybe people should consider search by negative resistance theme and will find better explanation to i use the neon bulb.

I already describe that hv radiant output when circuit is property tuned is capable to charge a capacitor just by one wire without apparently increase the input , or even be used to transmit electric power by one wire . In the video we could see just one wire connected to one coil and be received by other isolated coil .
https://goo.gl/photos/mXtpKMi9L69WVjVBA

We can see too how different are the wave shot in scope from most of replications until now, and without burned transistors :)
The circuit could do that operation and in same time recharge a battery without impact in input . I just saw one person show that until now
 call's MAC and he made one video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iER4K1O7iMc&t=17s

Like i said since first beginning this circuit is just to be study , And is part of a learning process to other nice project, but..... i know "is only a JT" like most pro people say , and in that way i just could answer to "Pro's" replicators  :
 don't need spend  their precious time in something that is so simple and trivial  , just ignore  ;) and go forward in other projects.
I just say that  because already saw some "elite" replicators at end of some days of experiment with this circuit, start complain why are spend their time with something is only a simple JT and they have better alternatives circuits to lit several neon bulbs .

To the people real interested i know they will have moments of fun and learning with that circuit not any doubt .


Nelson Rocha



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2017, 12:50:03 PM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #26 on: April 23, 2017, 02:25:04 PM »
Hi everbody ,

I could see by last updates , most are trying lit up neon bulb :)  Is there any special reason for this to happen?
I have already said, and I repeat:
The purpose of this circuit is not to ignite neon bulb lol, even because in the original circuit there is no neon connected at the transformer output, but near the input of the circuit near the capacitor C5 maybe people should consider search by negative resistance theme and will find better explanation to i use the neon bulb.

I already describe that hv radiant output when circuit is property tuned is capable to charge a capacitor just by one wire without apparently increase the input , or even be used to transmit electric power by one wire . In the video we could see just one wire connected to one coil and be received by other isolated coil .
https://goo.gl/photos/mXtpKMi9L69WVjVBA

We can see too how different are the wave shot in scope from most of replications until now, and without burned transistors :)
The circuit could do that operation and in same time recharge a battery without impact in input . I just saw one person show that until now
 call's MAC and he made one video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iER4K1O7iMc&t=17s

Like i said since first beginning this circuit is just to be study , And is part of a learning process to other nice project, but..... i know "is only a JT" like most pro people say , and in that way i just could answer to "Pro's" replicators  :
 don't need spend  their precious time in something that is so simple and trivial  , just ignore  ;) and go forward in other projects.
I just say that  because already saw some "elite" replicators at end of some days of experiment with this circuit, start complain why are spend their time with something is only a simple JT and they have better alternatives circuits to lit several neon bulbs .

To the people real interested i know they will have moments of fun and learning with that circuit not any doubt .


Nelson Rocha
Thanks Nelson, most of the fun I am having with this circuit is when the neon is not lit :) Seeing very curious things.

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #27 on: April 23, 2017, 06:17:47 PM »
Thanks Nelson, most of the fun I am having with this circuit is when the neon is not lit :) Seeing very curious things.

Hi Jimboot,

My intent since begin when i authorize Grumage to open the thread with my circuit , was exactly stimulate new people to observe what i consider interesting points related with  MAIN subject of this forum  OU , but i understand to some persons could be trivial what they observed , but not to everyone, and i think this forum is not only made by a "Elitist group" but by lot new people that could have the interest of reproduce that circuit and learn with lower investment about nice points .
I not earn nothing with that , even because i know in detail all points of that circuit and other variations that i did in last years .
I'm not selling any PDF or any promise of OU . Is really free of charge to the interested people .
Thanks by your support and wish you luck

Nelson Rocha

Nelson Rocha
   

Offline Zephir

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2017, 02:20:42 AM »
We have at least three replications already, but they all behave in unpredictable way and they oscillate more wildly, than the Mini Radiant Exciter at original videos.. For now they all also ignored my recommendation to replicate Nelson Rocha's prototype exactly. If nothing else, then the ferrite rod passing the toroid will block high frequencies propagating into circuit and it will make it more harmonic and less unpredictable.

In addition, Mr. Rocha pointed to interesting behavior, like the recharging of capacitors and another effects, which are visible at his videos. Instead of playing with neon lamp these effects can be tested for now.

Offline padova

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Re: Replication of Mini Radiant Exciter circuit of Nelson Rocha
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2017, 09:09:41 AM »
Hi

I've tried MAC's schematic or more precisely part where C5 is in parallel whit C2, initially results were poor,
so i dropped that, although it's  in MAC's  schematic.
I was trying to rejuvenate an old led battery whit this circuit. In absence of new informations,
but now we have some hints from Nelson about that part of the circuit. So will see to it.

regards

 

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