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Author Topic: Energy from water arc explosions  (Read 7248 times)

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 01:59:34 AM »
No. We are talking about a beaker with sodium carbonate and two tungsten electrodes. A DC current is passed. Its impossible to pass a DC current for any time longer than that required to charge the double layer and not have a chemical reaction at both electrodes. The cathode may have a plasma sheath but hydrogen will surely be made at the plasma/water interface, just as oxygen or oxide, hydroxide or carbonate, depending on the anode metal will be made at the anode.


The reason is simple. As soon as the voltage at the double layer at each electrode exceeds that required by the ions to reduce or oxidize, there is an acceptance of an electron at the cathode and a release at the anode. A chemical reaction occurs. 

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2017, 01:59:34 AM »

Offline Zephir

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2017, 03:28:15 AM »
Quote
As soon as the voltage at the double layer at each electrode exceeds that required by the ions to reduce or oxidize, there is an acceptance of an electron at the cathode and a release at the anode. A chemical reaction occurs.
 

Some chemical corrosion always occurs, but ideal plasma electrolysis has electrodes solely surrounded with coat of water vapor filled with plasma, so that the electrode actually doesn't touch the electrolyte due to Leidenfrost effect. This regime can be also recognized with sudden change of discharge color above certain limit of input power, once the electrode switches itself from electrolysis mode into a plasma discharge mode.

Albert Einstein: "Make things as simple as possible, but not simpler".

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2017, 04:47:45 AM »
No, the plasma is an extension of the electrode. At the plasma/electrolyte interface , is where the electrolysis occurs. Well the cathodic reaction only that is. Interesting, its easier for the anode to strike an arc but as it is believed that some kind of cold fusion occurs, it is the cathode that is chosen as the arcing electrode as that is where hydrogen is formed, by you guessed it, ELECTROLYSIS! The tungsten cathode is meant to have some hydrogen embrittlement before it produces OU . Some prayers might help too.


This plasma electrolysis has nothing to do with magical plasma OU like in gas discharge tubes, its all about cold fusion of hydrogen. Or perhaps warm fusion. ;)

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2017, 04:47:45 AM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2017, 12:19:38 PM »
You should really delete yourself from here - but not for hostility toward overunity concept, but for insufficient mental capacity, which is primary reason of this attitude. Did you ever play with high voltage over surface of water? Well, it's not difficult to achieve the circuit closed with water surface, even when both electrodes are outside the water: the discharge comes from first electrode to water, the current passes the water and another discharge comes from it through air into another electrode. Because both electrodes don't touch the water, no electrolysis can run on them and the transfer of current is solely electronic - i.e. no ions participate on it.

The ideal plasma electrolysis is the same process, except that both electrodes are immersed, but they still remain separated from water with layer of ionized water vapor (at least one of them). Only their arrangement is similar to electrolysis, the chemistry and physics not. Not to say, that many experiments (Energoniva) utilize high frequency current - so no electrolysis can run on electrodes even at the second electrode.

Quote
This plasma electrolysis has nothing to do with magical plasma OU like in gas discharge tubes, its all about cold fusion of hydrogen. Or perhaps warm fusion
Or perhaps because of hydrinos. Or perhaps condensed plasmoids. Or perhaps due to recombination of atomic gases. We simply don't know. The overunity has been observed in various plasmas other than hydrogen too (there is whole thread about it). So I seriously doubt, that the cold fusion will be involved in all these cases.

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Offline pomodoro

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2017, 02:07:36 PM »
Quote from: Zephir
. Because both electrodes don't touch the water, no electrolysis can run on them and the transfer of current is solely electronic - i.e. no ions participate on it.

This is a massively retarded statement. Try it  with doubly distilled water that has no ions and see what a massive arc you get.  You get no conduction at all, apart from the miniscule dissociation of water giving a resistivity of 18Mcm.  But you will get conduction if there is no water phase and only vapor, but you stated that there is water liquid between the electrodes right?

Since you like your journals so much go find one with DC, yes DC only,  passage of current through liquid water  involving no chemical reduction or oxidation at the interface with electrodes or plasma.  Even the Grotthuss mechanism requires reduction of the proton at the cathode.

There is no frigging DC conduction through water without some type of electrolysis  unless the water is  completely gaseous between the electrodes and thus becomes ionized.  AC current at a high enough frequency can, as it is capacitivilely coupled through the double layer.  But you did not see to know that did you.  I deliberately left it out before  to check your knowledge.
It can even do it al lower frequency , so long as the reactions are completely reversible, you better look reversible  up quick, for your next smartass reply.

So please , show us, with real science,  you know some nice journal, how water, liquid water, not vapour, magically conducts a DC current without electrolysis at the water to electric source interface.

Oh finally just to rub it it, have you , yes you tried using Zinc Sulfate, or copper sulfate as the electrolyte,  youll be very embarassed indeed when you see the mass of zinc or copper engulfing the beaker right where the plasma is , Oh dear.. :o :o :o

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2017, 02:07:36 PM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2017, 03:54:00 PM »
Quote
There is no frigging DC conduction through water without some type of electrolysis  unless the water is  completely gaseous between the electrodes and thus becomes ionized
The ions within plasma are different than these ones existing in the solute. Within plasma oxygen gets ionized in the same way like the hydrogen, both they're discharged at the cathode - the water therefore splits and migrates along arc, but it doesn't separate there into hydrogen and oxygen.

Quote
you know some nice journal, how water, liquid water, not vapour, magically conducts a DC current
Why I should explain it, if the water remains present just in vapour state during plasma electrolysis? Anyway - I frankly don't understand why we are discussing all of it here: even if the classical electrolysis would run massively during plasma electrolysis, it still wouldn't contribute to explanation of its overunity - on the contrary. The discussion with you resembles the TinkelKoala's pseudo-problems for me: if you want to understand and advance in overunity, you should remain focused to phenomena, which can support it - and not to some classical physics OT BS. 

Quote
yes you tried using Zinc Sulfate, or copper sulfate as the electrolyte,  youll be very embarassed indeed when you see the mass of zinc or copper engulfing the beaker right where the plasma is
If you would try the plasma electrolysis with copper electrodes and hydroxide solution, you could be very surprised with massive formation of iron and another heavy elements including gold, silver and palladium. And this is something even more interesting than just overunity. The iron block held at the picture bellow reportedly comes just from pure water and anything else.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2017, 05:15:56 PM »
Oh dear, a very weak reply indeed. Learn your lesson, if you are not an expert in electrochemistry don't give lectures on it. Stick to something you know about.

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2017, 05:15:56 PM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2017, 06:12:14 PM »
If it would be really weak, you would argue it already - I know your mindset already well.. ;-) The lack of electrolysis in high energy density systems has its counterpart in overunity electrolysis at low energy fields, where no electrodes are actually present. So we can have no electrolysis, where you would expect it - but also electrolysis, where you wouldn't expect it (video 1, 2).


Offline pomodoro

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2017, 07:41:19 PM »
God's sake, you are digging yourself deeper and deeper into pure shite.  Those photos are of an inductively coupled plasma. ICP for short. Obviously home made. A kilowatt of RF heats some NaCl from the solution and vaporizes it to give the impression of a flame as thee atomic lines of sodium are emitted in cooler regions. Check out the commercial ICPAES ones that are even more impressive and make Argon 'burn'.
ICP can achieve 10000 degrees and clearly shows that no transmutation occurs as its used to measure atomic emissions from solutions, and surprise surprise no new element lines show up when using ultrapure standards.


Look, I'm not going to keep this pathetic thread going as you have run out of steam,  there is no OU in plasma electrolysis that we can replicate , water conducts as a liquid using ions and good luck with that.  If you don't believe that then do some experiment with accurate equipment and give us all the details and make sure anyone can get the same results. Those success stories are faked or wrong, do it for yourself and see the truth.

 
If it would be really weak, you would argue it already - I know your mindset already well.. ;-) The lack of electrolysis in high energy density systems has its counterpart in overunity electrolysis at low energy fields, where no electrodes are actually present. So we can have no electrolysis, where you would expect it - but also electrolysis, where you wouldn't expect it (video 1, 2).



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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2017, 07:41:19 PM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2017, 10:20:35 PM »
Quote
Those photos are of an inductively coupled plasma.

Which can be ignited with lighter? Interesting...  In 1982, a team of chemists at Western Illinois University reported the room-temperature decomposition of water vapour into hydrogen peroxide and hydrogen using radio frequency waves with around 60 percent yield [S Roychowdhury et al, Plasma Chem. Plasma Process., 1982, 2, 157]. They too used precisely the same frequency of 13.56 MHz - no coincidence really, since this is a common frequency for radio frequency generators. And in 1993 a Russian team reported the apparent dissociation of water into hydrogen and hydroxyl radicals using microwaves[V L Vaks et al, Radiophys. Quantum Electron. 1994, 37, 85].

I'd say, your "counterarguments" are gradually getting more and more shitty.

Offline Zephir

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2017, 11:15:52 PM »
BTW This device is based on high voltage & frequency pulses introduced to membrane for reverse osmosis with COP > 120. Device is able to heat 500 grams of water from 22 ° C - 93 ° C during 720 seconds with using of battery input 1.7 Watts. Average life-time of membrane is 35 minutes.This device show the way, how to do plasma electrolysis without actually running a plasma - just by constraining the water molecules into a narrow channels.  YT videos 1, 2. See also Plasma Discharge in Liquid Water-Treatment and Applications

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2017, 11:15:52 PM »
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Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2017, 04:06:08 AM »
Its time to go read and become self trained expert now zephir.

If no college you must learn yourself.

These sites about overunity will not educate you on anything.

Simple steps first, then move to difficult things.

C/C++ , math, electronics. Then you may start calling yourself ready.

A lvl 1 weak character is not ready for final boss.

Off you go now Zephir.

Offline Zephir

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2017, 07:11:00 AM »
Quote
These sites about overunity will not educate you on anything.

So what are you doing here, if you don't believe into overunity, you're not apparently interested about my links and you even cannot find anything useful here?

A disruptive agent job?

Please kindly delete yourself from here and don't forget to kindly wipe out all posts which you invilingly did during your stay here.

Thank you in advance.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2017, 07:45:21 AM »
Since you have been polite I will remove myself, you seem the stubbon person.

But rest assured Zephir, you are being watched.

But not for the reasons you think, you are not that dangerous to us.

A simple pest to be squashed later on as we break your will, blocking off all avenues of success.

We have created hundreds of false leads for you to fall into, our russian colleagues also help out.

You will stay right where you are sheeple, You dont take orders well also, now you are forever crossed from working in any of our companies. We will however summon you for consideration.

I can crush your life with a few clicks be careful Zephir.

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: Energy from water arc explosions
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2017, 09:29:16 AM »
Shit your pants yet Zephir?

We are a very well oiled machine.

A little twig like you gets munched up very quickly even if you had working technology.

We will invite you in the truck and you will see where Pablo Escobar got his inspiration.

And we will keep very good tabs on you, and if you cross us it will be legal to solve the Zephir problem.

Just one more unhealthy boy with a heart attack, our guys leave no trace whatsoever.

Do yourself a favor Zephir, be a good boy, we need better electronic warfare personnel, cyberwar personnel, material scientists, doctors, engineers.

We dont need disobedient little OU rebels that cant build the technology we need.

 

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