Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: dr.blue on April 05, 2017, 08:47:44 PM
-
Light Source from MVP (Magnetic Voltaic Potential) by TLG-team
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The work and information contained herein is released under the CC BY-NC-SA license.
MVP (Magnetic Voltaic Potential)
MVP can be observed and measured between two separate earths, actual or synthetic. The MVP varies depending on location, distance between the earths and their orientation to the earths N-S poles.
A MVP can be created using the (planet) earth, when inserting two pieces of conductive metal rods in the ground a MVP can be measured between said two rods. The rods must be placed in increments of 30m from each other and aligned in the earths N-S direction. The larger the distance between the rods, the larger the MVP.
MVP can also be found in almost any contemporary housing, using the Earth from the electrical installation and/or radiator and/or water pipe and/or antenna and/or metallic structures etc. etc. The MVP found is observed to vary between ~30-140V and can be either a DV (Direct Voltage) i.e. fixed, or AV (Alternating Voltage) i.e. oscillations can be observed.
Where there is MVP, there is no current, but that does not imply that there are no energy, on the contrary. The simple reason for the absence of current is; there are NO electrons present, and since electrons are the matter that current is made of, the result is; no electrons = no current.
The energy is not measurable due to the lack of appropriate lab equipment here, but can easily be observed, in this case we can produce light with the help of the experimental E2 circuit.
The experimental E2 Circuit
Please see the attached schematics for the experimental circuit (e2-schematic.png), it is extremely simple, it consist only of a LED panel attached to two earths. This type of circuit is henceforth known as the EII or E2 circuit.
A picture of the actual circuit in operation is attached (4panelA.jpg). What can be observed is that the LED panels (There are four LED panels each 24 LED's in series in each cluster) lights up very brightly, and that the meter reads 0.00mA when the nominal consumption for these LED panels is total 40mA @ 60V. A beneficial side effect of the electron absence can be observed in the LED panels, they do not increase in temperature while operating, no observable heat is produced.
A bonus picture is also attached (bonus-16panelsA.jpg), it shows an E2 circuit with a diode-bridge connected to 16 LED panels (4 clusters of 4 panels in each cluster, and 24 led's in series in each panel) in parallel i.e. 384 LED's in total. Again, nominal consumption 160mA @ 60V, actual consumption 0.00mA.
Guide for reproducing the experimental E2 Circuit
• Make sure you can measure a MVP
• Use LED's that has a nominal voltage below MVP
• Not all LED's will work due to differences in the manufacturing process, so you will need to experiment with a handful of different types.
• Note that the MVP will adapt to the lowest nominal voltage e.g. if you measure 100V MPV and use a 3V LED, the MVP will drop to 3V. If you connect a 12V LED and a 3V LED in parallel, only the 3V LED will light up. But if you connect two 12V LED's in parallel, both LED's will light up.
Call for Community Research Contribution
We would be greatly interested in any observation (however trivial it may seem) that you make when you have reproduced the experimental E2 circuit, together with as much as possible of the following information:
• Types of LED's used, preferably with information about manufacturer and data sheet
• Measured MVP
• Types of Earth used
• Scope screen shots of the MVP, if any oscillations are suspected or observed
• Location, preferably with lon/lat coordinates
• 24 hour log of the MVP, minimum 1 sample per 60 seconds
We have successfully powered up some low-power electronic consumer devices using MVP, if you performs such experiments, we would also be interested to learn what worked for you and what didn't.
You are encouraged to post your results in this forum, so that others may benefit from them too.
If you intend to develop commercial applications based on our work, you will obviously need to obtain a commercial license from us, and most importantly, you will likely require our consultancy services. Please do not hesitate to contact the undersigned in either case.
Kind regards
dr.blue, the TLG-team
-
Well done.
I have such potentials between my heating pipe and the groundline of my cable TV connector on the wall...
so you sometimes also get an electrical shock, when you touch these both poles... This is also why
TV-Cards in PC sometimes die...when you connect the tv cable from the cable TV conector from the wall, which
has a different ground connection than the PCs grounded input grid supply...
-
@dr.blue
• Location, preferably with lon/lat coordinates
--but you forgot to tell us where _you_ are located. Do you perhaps live in a location that uses SWER system for electricity distribution?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return
Also, I can assure you that if your LEDs are lighting up, there is current flowing, no matter what your meter might be saying.
-
I have such potentials between my heating pipe and the groundline of my cable TV connector on the wall...
That's great, please let us know what you can achieve with a couple of LED's.
-
Also, I can assure you that if your LEDs are lighting up, there is current flowing, no matter what your meter might be saying.
Thank you for your sentiments. I'm not here to debate nor change your belief system, I hope you can appreciate that.
-
Dr.blue
Over the years I have spoken with folks all around the globe who have seen this "charge" and done experiments [short little Musings]
member Grumage here had done some interesting experiments in his yard in the UK which seemed to have larger than expected results.
He is also doing an experiment here with the Electroststic field to check for an east west "bias"
here
http://overunity.com/17063/smudges-musings-on-electro-kinetic-potential-in-the-earths-a-field/#.WOX6oLl1pdg
also
there's a fellow at energetic forum who puts lots of rods [copper] in the ground and gets energy, he still seems to be playing with that for "big" claims
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20091-barbosa-leal-devices-info-replication-details.html
your experiments would be fun, it would be good to qualify where the energy comes from [mentioned leakage SWER issues by TinselKoala] are there "laylines" to be found which hold paths of energy in specific orientations or is this leakage from the grid which can be picked up from some tuned antennae [Grid harmonic] in the ground [specific distance apart ??
actually simple and fun to do, I remember a fellow in Sweden was so intrigues he went into the forest and still found it there ,even ground to tree experiments.
are you going to collect and collate the data here in some fashion?
establish Laylines on the map/globe?
mixing this experiment with electrostatics might be very interesting too...
Thanks
Chet K
PS
in the future if you do post more Pics ,it would be good to resize them smaller so it doesn't make the page so big
scrolling back and forth to read breaks up the flow..and gets annoying to some people.
-
Dear Mr. Chet
Thank you for your message.
Over the years I have spoken with folks all around the globe who have seen this "charge" and done experiments [short little Musings]
That is correct, MVP is not a new concept as such. The only problem was (in past tense) that nobody could identify and quantify the energy in question, and that understanding is the key for taking full advantage of it.
check for an east west "bias"
"east west" is a human construct, there is nothing to be found there.
your experiments would be fun [......] actually simple and fun to do
That is exactly where we hope this post would take it, and if nothing else, people can at least light up their home for free. Eagerly awaiting to see the results of your personal experiments
are you going to collect and collate the data here in some fashion?
Yes, obviously.
in the future if you do post more Pics ,it would be good to resize them smaller
Duly noted, thank you.
-
Dear dr.blue.
You might find these of interest?
https://youtu.be/mRz3oTLicT4
https://youtu.be/x__NQOtrzf0
This next link appeared interesting but the resonance was explained as stray capacitance as the frequency increased.
https://youtu.be/MXPtdzhSdfw
Kind regards, Graham.
-
Dear Mr. Graham
You might find these of interest?
Well, "yes" in the sense that if you stick two rods in the (planet) earth, you will get an observable MVP. And "No" because there is no information pertaining to the location and orientation of the rods.
I would be of bigger interest if you personally could replicate the E2 circuit and let us know your findings along with the pertinent information requested.
Kind regards
-
blue
What do you mean by location?
I see you did not answer the Koala when he asked for your location?[SWER Grid question]
what do you mean?
respectfully
Chet K
-
Dear Mr. Chet
What do you mean by location?
LON/LAT coordinates, doesn't have to be precise, within 20km radius is fine.
I see you did not answer the Koala when he asked for your location?[SWER Grid question]
I deliberately choose not to entertain Mr. Koala's questions and claims, because it serves no purpose whatsoever. I hope you can appreciate and respect my personal decision.
Kind regards.
-
Dear blue
I agree that your experiments as outlined would seem to be autonomous of the grid
Mr.Koala is a metrologist and has always been a pain in the tucus for nitty gritty details
such as perhaps the measurements in SWER areas will reflect some hidden clue towards further enhancement ....or not ??
I have learned that there is no such thing as too much Data [thank you Mr.Koala]
have you a map with such data available already ... any map any data ??
your quote
"Yes, obviously."
-----------------------------------
I am truly excited about your research ,and for clarity the east west experiments mentioned above are of an electrostatic nature and some of us are grateful for the effort put forth By Mr.Grum and also as noted in his Vid he is in North Wales UK
I am in NYC area USA
with respect and gratitude
Mr.Chet
-
Dear Mr. Chet.
Indeed North Wales, United Kingdom, close to the Dee estuary but I too am unwilling to provide a National Grid reference for obvious reasons.
Dear Mr. Blue.
In the video entitled " Simple Seismology " my standard use Copper plated earth rods were placed in a North/NorthEast orientation at around 15 meters apart.
In the video entitled " Earth grid energy? " the same two rods were placed nearly North/South between 5&7 meters apart.
Being adept at " Dowsing " I found it quite easy to see the invisible grid and it's crossings this helped in finding the " sweet spots " so to speak. ;)
Kind regards, Mr. Grum. :)
-
Dear Mr. Grum
1. In your ground-rod experiments, did you detect current flowing?
2. What do you think when some claimant asks you to report your location, but refuses to report his own?
3. Do you think it is possible to light up LED strings without any current flowing at all?
Kind regards,
Mr. Koala
-
(snip)
I deliberately choose not to entertain Mr. Koala's questions and claims, because it serves no purpose whatsoever. I hope you can appreciate and respect my personal decision.
Kind regards.
In other words, you know your claim cannot withstand close scrutiny, so you "choose not to entertain" it.
Perhaps you can at least enlighten us as to your definition of "OPEN SOURCE".
-
Isn't this about telluric currents?
-
Mr.Paul
Ixne on the Currentyea
this is a voltage only power/energy source !![Mr.blues words]
Chet K
Ps I'm glad we turned the page ,between the Scrolling back and forth and now the nightmare making Koala...[Dropbear]
that thing gives me the heeby geebies
-
Dear Mr. Chet
Mr.Koala is a metrologist and has always been a pain in the tucus for nitty gritty details
I have no history in common with Mr. Koala, my decision is solely based on his sentiments laid forward in this thread. I don't mind nitty-gritty attention to details, if they are well founded.
such as perhaps the measurements in SWER areas will reflect some hidden clue towards further enhancement ....or not ??
I can not exclude that SWER, or densely populated areas in general can have an effect on MVP. But if we are able to collect some useful data we will be able to analyze it closer, and if it confirms that "human activity" have an effect on MVP, then subsequently depending on your point of view, you can obviously utilize that information for "further enhancement".
Our main area of interest lie however in the (planet) earth's magnetic field, everything else is considered an disturbance that is obscuring vital data, therefore experiments of the type that Mr. Grum is conducting, would yield cleaner data for our further research. We already have small developed a passive desktop device with two synthetic earths that can yield any desired MVP, but as you probably know, there is no substitute for reality, hence the call for real world data.
have you a map with such data available already ... any map any data ??
your quote
"Yes, obviously."
It was a "Yes, obviously." to your question whether we are going to collect and collate data. As you can see for your self, we haven't received anything yet, and therefore there is nothing I can share with you. I kindly encourage you to take two wires and a handful of LED's and let us know your findings.
Kind regards.
-
Dear Mr. Grum
1. In your ground-rod experiments, did you detect current flowing?
2. What do you think when some claimant asks you to report your location, but refuses to report his own?
3. Do you think it is possible to light up LED strings without any current flowing at all?
Kind regards,
Mr. Koala
Dear Mr. Koala.
Question 1.
Would that be negative or positive current ? :) Seriously, yes. In fact the rods are still in situ, I have just measured 25 microamps at 35 millivolts. The voltage is much lower than last year when we saw 200 millivolts.
Question 2.
Like you, my first thoughts were SWER having had a career in the " Supply industry " for nigh on two decades.
Question 3.
Not that I'm aware of. DC Watts is a product of Volts x Amps.
kind regards, Mr. Grum.
-
Dear Mr. Grum.
Indeed North Wales, United Kingdom, close to the Dee estuary but I too am unwilling to provide a National Grid reference for obvious reasons.
That is quite understandable, "close to the Dee estuary" is fine.
I seems from your videos that you have an abundance of space, unlike most city dwellers. If you have the time and possibility I would request you to measure the MVP in N-S direction (E-W is not of interest). ~10m is the first harmonic, so if you could measure MVP for each ~10m, and as long as your property and wire length will allow you, I would be grateful.
Thank you for your kind assistance.
P.S. And if anyone else is reading this, there is NO reason to disclose your location, unless you replicated the E2 circuit and have collected pertinent data.
Kind regards
-
If you have the time and possibility I would request you to measure the MVP in N-S direction (E-W is not of interest).
On the contrary, PROPER CONTROL EXPERIMENTS are always of interest.... to people who actually want to find the Truth, that is. Consider what happens to your "theory" if E-W measurements show the same effects as N-S experiments. By avoiding this proper control experiment you are demonstrating what we call Experimenter Bias, aka Confirmation Bias. You will avoid experiments or happily ignore results that do not support, or that have the potential to invalidate, your dearly-cherished hypotheses.
Further, I will state that there is no reason for _anyone_ to disclose their locations to you UNTIL and unless you first honestly disclose YOUR OWN location.
-
Dear Mr. Chet
this is a voltage only power/energy source !![the Claimants words]
I would appreciate if you refrained from referring to me as "the Claimant", it has a negative connotation. I would also like to make it absolutely clear that I'm not here to separate anyone from their money, I made a call for data, not money.
Secondly it doesn't make any difference what people choose to believe is running through the wires, it doesn't change the fact that a MVP can observed between two earths, and that it can illuminate some LED's.
If individuals in this community choose not to replicate a simple 2 wire 1 component circuit, and contribute with some data, then further communication seems rather pointless.
Thank you for your attention.
-
Dear Mr.blue
I would like to order your specific LED ,if you provided a link ...I missed it
thanks
Mr.Chet
Ps
as per your above request ?
Done [modified post above]
-
Dear Mr. Chet
I would appreciate if you refrained from referring to me as "the Claimant", it has a negative connotation. I would also like to make it absolutely clear that I'm not here to separate anyone from their money, I made a call for data, not money.
Secondly it doesn't make any difference what people choose to believe is running through the wires, it doesn't change the fact that a MVP can observed between two earths, and that it can illuminate some LED's.
If individuals in this community choose not to replicate a simple 2 wire 1 component circuit, and contribute with some data, then further communication seems rather pointless.
Thank you for your attention.
So you will of course be giving away your "commercial licenses" and your "consultations" for free, right?
If you intend to develop commercial applications based on our work, you will obviously need to obtain a commercial license from us, and most importantly, you will likely require our consultancy services. Please do not hesitate to contact the undersigned in either case.
And it absolutely DOES make a difference what is going through your wires, because your CLAIM is that there is no current and your CLAIM is that it depends somehow on the magnetic field of the Earth. These are CLAIMS that require investigation in order to determine their veracity.
And what about your references to my "CLAIMS"? What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If you don't want people to refer to you as a CLAIMANT, which you certainly are, you should not refer to the CLAIMS of others with that word.
I deliberately choose not to entertain Mr. Koala's questions and claims, because it serves no purpose whatsoever.
(emphasis mine)
-
Dear Mr. Chet
I would like to order your specific LED ,if you provided a link ...I missed it
At this point it is anybody guess as to which LED's will work, personally I didn't keep track of manufacturers as they all worked with classical current, and that was the only application I had for them in the past. With the limited inventory I have, it's my impression that only every 3rd or so will work, even if it's from the same batch.
Some LED's will work, some will not work, some will only light up once and never work again, some will light up brightly, some will only glow slightly. Some LED panels work, some will not, some will only light up some of the individual LED's, some will... etc etc. But ALL will work flawlessly with classical current.
Therefore we would like to collect data about the LED's used, and maybe we will be able to isolate the exact reason why some work and some don't. The current working theory is that the reason must be found at the atomic level.
I provided a datasheet in my initial post for the 60V filament type LED panels, but that won't do you any good if you have less than 60V MVP at your location.
I have attached a picture of some of my inventory, those on the left work, and those on right don't work (in full), but maybe those that do not work for me will work for you and vice versa, alas additional research is required.
Kind regards
-
Dear Mr.blue
I suspect that a capacitive effect may be the reason [just a suspicion] for the disparity ?
perhaps initial contact drains the environment or ??
should be interesting to play with.
we have MANY members with LED's [we like blinky light experiments here].
I would imagine you'll get some data soon ?
Also what could a consultant offer in these investigations ?
or is that for later on ? perhaps you have already established proprietary enhancement protocols??
respectfully
Mr.Chet
PS
thanks for the Pics ,could you shrink it ,it has suddenly grown the whole page [scrolling again]?
Mr.Koala knows what size fits just right ,but you could try a few "shrinks" until you get it right
usually what I end up doing, it will time out [the modify button] so try soon please.
thx
-
Dear Mr. Koala
Bla..bla..bla.....bla....bla
Maybe you are experiencing a case of mistaken identity, I'm really not the correct person to feed your insatiable craving for attention and confirmation.
I can and will not stop you if you insist on polluting this thread, but don't expect me to respond, I do not engage in an cordial exchange of diverging opinions with people of your sort in arbitrary on-line forums, in such cases I prefer to meet up with people in person.
If you next question will be, what I mean by "people of your sort", let me save you the trouble and kindly direct your attention to an excellent study done by Mr. Dunning and Mr. Kruger at Cornell University, on the very same subject.
I hope that I have managed to make my position clear to you.
Thank you for your attention.
-
Mr.blue
have we met before ??
your recent comments and others feel very familiar and a bit strong for only recent history?
sometimes fellows come back under different handles and engage the membership
again .
you did after all come here asking for help from the community ?
and Tinsel is a very good representative and also does very good experiments [a good thing to have here ?
if I am mistaken... that's OK ...although not even mentioning a country of origin [for yourself]
in a Study which requires same for qualification /data collection ?
I realize your recent addendum to that request [removed that requirement it seems]
anyhoo could you resize your Pic ?
thx
Chet
-
Your position is and has always been very clear to me: You are a CLAIMANT who does not wish his claims to be examined thoroughly, but who only seeks _confirmation_ and will resist any critical examination. And you continue to prove my point with every post like the above that you make.
What are you so afraid of? I know: you are afraid of being proven wrong. Otherwise you would welcome true experiments performed with proper controls, and you would be more than happy to engage with anyone, especially critics like me.
Instead of talking about the Dunning-Kruger effect, perhaps you would benefit from researching the philosophy of science, the nature of True Experiments, the various cognitive biases that experimenters suffer from, and so on. Not to mention the basics of electronics, the errors that DMMs may be subject to, and just what "magic" makes LEDs light up.
I get this all the time from CLAIMANTS like yourself: You cannot or will not address the valid points I make, so you attack me personally. Believe me or not as you like, but this behaviour does nothing to advance your cause and in fact raises huge red flags.
-
Mr.Chet
I suspect that a capacitive effect may be the reason [just a suspicion] for the disparity ?
perhaps initial contact drains the environment or ??
should be interesting to play with.
I believe it is better to form an opinion or theory after you have done your experimenting.
we have MANY members with LED's [we like blinky light experiments here].
I would imagine you'll get some data soon ?
I would hope so, although I don't see any indications of it, I will give it a few days more.
Also what could a consultant offer in these investigations ?
Absolutely nothing.
or is that for later on ?
Yes, as I wrote in my initial post, if you want to develop a commercial product, you will need our consultancy services and you will have to part with your money. This was merely a friendly offer to those that might contemplate such an endeavor, and it is not related to you or any other person participating in this experiment. I have given you all the information you need to illuminate your home for free, and if you are content with that, I hope that you will reciprocate with some useful data, I believe that is a fair proposal for everyone.
-
Mr.blue
quote
I believe it is better to form an opinion or theory after you have done your experimenting.
end quote
this is not a theory at all ...an observation from ground energy experiments by many members here
and elsewhere it builds over time varies from night to day, drains when a significant load is applied then replenishes or as in Grum's case varies from year to year .
water table effects it ,actually there has been sooo much work done on this I am quite surprised by your license agreement ?
however ...?
we shall see ?
maybe there is something proprietary in your claim ?
magnetic voltaics ,is a novel name ...showing a patent or history of this discovery would
be good ,even being able to find your research group in a google search would be nice ?
released By TLG--- TEAM ??
-
And just who is actually "lighting their home for free" using this method?
-
Dear Mr. Koala
What are you so afraid of? I know: you are afraid of being proven wrong. Otherwise you would welcome true experiments performed with proper controls, and you would be more than happy to engage with anyone, especially critics like me.
I laid forward a simple experiment involving two wires and one LED, and you couldn't be bothered to replicate it and make your own "true experiments performed with proper controls", that disqualifies you as a "critic".
I would happily concede to that you have a superior intellect and know everything worth knowing in this world, and that I'm just an poor ignoramus not worthy of your shadow, and that it's electrons and bananas flowing in the wires, if that would make you perform your own "true experiments performed with proper controls" and provide useful data. But I really don't see that happening.
Instead of talking about the Dunning-Kruger effect, perhaps you...
I was not referring to the "Dunning-Kruger effect", but now that you bring it up, it definitely seems to fit the bill.
this behaviour does nothing to advance your cause and in fact raises huge red flags
I'm only pleased to confirm your suspicion.
-
TinselKoala is pathoskeptic troll (http://overunity.com/17186/the-bifilar-pancake-coil-at-its-resonant-frequency/msg502870), who should be banned from this forum. His very strategy is to ridicule people who are looking for free energy in many different ways. The suppression of free energy research starts just with people like him. Just report and ignore him - the discussion with him will just dilute the topic and it will drown it in verbosity - which is exactly what he wants.
-
Fellows
being new here ,maybe you find it odd that people may have done experiments prior to your arrival
here and perhaps actually are not new to the claims being made by you with Poor presentation or understanding of what is actually happening ?
and then adding ownership claims to Boot ?? from a Team which can't be found from a country which won't be named ?
Yeesh
and King Zephir pulls the banning card ?
double yeesh
how about we just do a few experiments and see?
thanks
Chet
-
The "doing experiments" is just another widespread fuzz making strategy here. It's supposed to make the patoskeptic trolls more trustworthy in the eyes of laymen by mimicking the replication attempts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlPAzjgJyTQ). The layman people are supposed to see it and think: "huh, this guy is soo clever, experienced and well equipped - so he must be right!" But you can be sure, these experiments will never touch the substance, because their very purpose is to mislead people from overunity research.
-
Zephir
I think you need to join in then as the Fuzz Police for this experiment ?
very simple to do ??
what say Yee?
-
stray voltage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_voltage) vs telluric current (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telluric_current) vs Tesla ground current (http://www.overunity.com/13891/large-ground-current-using-single-terminal-oscillator-tesla-said-its-doable).
-
Dear Mr. Chet
Fellows
being new here ,maybe you find it odd that people may have done experiments prior to your arrival
here and perhaps actually are not new to the claims being made by you with Poor presentation or understanding of what is actually happening ?
and then adding ownership claims to Boot ?? from a Team which can't be found from a country which won't be named ?
Yeesh
and King Zephir pulls the banning card ?
double yeesh
how about we just do a few experiments and see?
thanks
Chet
I see this is going nowhere very fast, so I better confess now that you have blown my cover: My name is actually Vladimir Zagdayev, and I'm a goat Shepard in the glorious nation of Kazakhstan and I know nothing about everything. Please do not perform the experiment because it is not working and it will set your house on fire. I only made up this story so that I could cheat you wealthy people from the affluent west, because I need to money to feed my goats and twelve barefooted children of which I only admit ownership of two. But you are all much smarter than me, my departed mother warned me about that, but I carelessly ignored her wise words.
May God forgive me for my fraudulent actions.
Your obedient and humble servant,
Vladimir Zagdayev
-
My Dearest Mr.blue [and other multiple personas]
It is written
'
"The truth will set you free"
good to get that off your chest.
and Glad your friend Zephir will be joining in the experiments !
Mr.Chet
-
Very amusing.
Now, let's review.
1. Many people, including myself, have demonstrated lighting a few, or even many, LEDs on power obtained from ground rods or other grounding systems including "earth batteries". There is nothing new or remarkable about that, it is a fact and it is not amenable to commercialization.
2. "Dr" blue has definitely made several claims that are worth investigating further. These are 1) that the LEDs are being lit without any current; and 2) the effect depends on the orientation with respect to the Earth's magnetic field. A further claim seems to be that one can "light up the whole house" with this effect.
3. "Dr" blue has explicitly stated that he does not want E-W testing to be performed. Yet it is precisely this kind of control experiment that could potentially disprove the claim that the effect depends on the orientation with respect to the magnetic field of the Earth. When the necessity of performing proper control experiments is pointed out to "Dr" blue, he chooses to ignore and in fact even mock the suggestion. This is not a proper scientific attitude and in fact betrays the strongest of cognitive biases--- or even perhaps something more sinister.
4. "Dr" blue has asked experimenters here to report their locations, but he himself will not honestly tell us his own location. Bearing in mind that some entire countries and some rural locations in other countries use the SWER system for their electric grids, and such a system can indeed provide substantial power from appropriately placed ground electrodes, this refusal to reveal his own location is problematic and even suspicious.
5. In one post "Dr" blue says he is not after money. And yet in another post he says that we will need to avail ourselves of his consultancy, for a fee. The hypocrisy is blatant indeed.
6. It takes, conservatively, a few hundred watts of electrical power to "light up my house" to usable levels -- to be able to see adequately for reading, cooking, working on a car, etc. Yet the photos "Dr" blue has provided show at most several hundred _milliwats_ of electrical power being used to light up his LEDs. I ask again... who has lit up his entire house using this system? Can "Dr" blue provide evidence that hundreds of watts are available from his system? The sound of crickets chirping is deafening.
7. I am a scientist by education and training, and my work experience includes many years of examining and vetting claims like the ones made in this thread. I have seen fakers, frauds, delusions, honest mistakes and outright failures. I have been called many names by many people, but I have never seen an actual "free energy" device. I have seen many devices and schemes that actually DO extract free energy from the environment. In fact the city where I live gets about 15 percent of its electrical power from "free energy" solar panels. If "Dr" blue has discovered something unique, we should be able to examine it with his cooperation by performing the necessary vetting and the necessary proper experiments. If he chooses not to cooperate, then obviously he relinquishes control over the experimentation that may be performed by others... and also obviously he will not benefit economically from those experiments.
8. The lie that I do not "believe" in free energy has again been stated by the Zephir entity. And yet I personally have extracted and used enough free energy from the environment to travel thousands of miles and do other amazing feats, both in my personal and my professional life. Some people here know that I tell the truth about this and know exactly what I mean. I do not talk about this on this forum because it requires specialized equipment, education and training and years of experience, which are probably not available to most people here.
9. In one post "Dr" blue suggests that I consult "Mr" Dunning and "Mr" Kruger (their proper title is Dr. or Professor) and yet in another post he says that he did not refer to the Dunning-Kruger effect. One wonders just what he meant by the earlier post then. Is it another example of his blatant hypocrisy?
Now, carry on with your personal attacks against me. Or buckle down and PROVE ME WRONG, with checkable outside references, real data, and/or experiments and demonstrations of your own.
-
The "doing experiments" is just another widespread fuzz making strategy here. It's supposed to make the patoskeptic trolls more trustworthy in the eyes of laymen by mimicking the replication attempts (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlPAzjgJyTQ). The layman people are supposed to see it and think: "huh, this guy is soo clever, experienced and well equipped - so he must be right!" But you can be sure, these experiments will never touch the substance, because their very purpose is to mislead people from overunity research.
The slightest spark will burn down your Straw Man fallacy.
Are you ready to admit yet that you were and still are wrong about your claim with respect to coil current direction? Or to refute my proof with an experiment of your own?
-
Even after multiple years lurking, learning, absorbing and even understanding, I still keep being annoyed and surprised that some great minds are still in the kindergarten.
-
Dr. Blue, I have to admit, it sounded like an 1st april prank. But as it was posted on the 5th...
If this is not a joke, I will certainly test it asap.
Some more info would be good. If performed on a field, outdoors, does it have to be dark so the leds can be seen? What are the rods, iron? size? How deep into the ground, and at what height are the taps? Suggest some precise distances. 3m? 9m? What wire?
About koala and other aggressive sickos, just put them on your ignore list (over buddy list...) and pleeease stop quoting them, which undermines the ignore function.
sad thing is, the trolls are so successful resulting in this community shrinking rapidely.
Therefor, welcome.
-
dieter
I think if you have a thread which you would like input on ,and you don't wish to have input from
certain members ?
just say so !!
quite certain you will get your wish.
Re this topic ?
most who actually have done these experiments[which you apparently have not]
found this entire format very strange ,Bizzare even
and to be honest it sounds very interesting ["magnetic Voltaics" its a big Phrase and a huge claim where one would expect to read significant support data
Nothing to support the Big words ,,,not even an explanation or support data for the Bulbs will light with no current ??
but there is ownership of this "Nothing" and if you do indeed find "something" make sure you
document it ?? after all there is a License on this "magnetic Voltaics"
You Dieter have apparently gotten off badly ...as has the Zephir with member TinselKoala
Tinsel has much experience in this field ,actually more than any person I have ever seen in these forums ...
The Knowledge and experience Boggles my mind at times ,absolutely priceless to this community
to this "open source" community.
there are very serious and knowledgeable fellows in these forums ,fellows who have dedicated there lives to the whatifs and out of the box experiments @Cherryman is one such example
and I see you too dieter look and hunt.
There was a period of time here where I fought with Tinsel and would have rolled around [like kindergarten] in the dirt with him....
But I have learned over the years that he can be very very helpful and he practices "brutal honesty"
and much much more than that he truly believes as I do ,in the "what ifs?
I have never spoken with a serious experimenter here who does not hold Tinsel in very high regard
and to be honest if you make a claim as Bold as this one ?
""We have licensed Magnetic Voltaics ,It lights Bulbs with no current.. it is ours forever more.. but we allow you to play with it ""
""please report all findings here "
and remember if you actually find something which is worth anything"
we have a license for this claim"
such a claim and you shun scientific scrutiny of your claims and methodology ?
and when your errors and assumptions are pointed out ...
things Like Troll and ban him come to the topic ??
you have GOT TO BE KIDDING !!
any true claimant runs to scrutiny ...
Begs investigation from knowledgeable men !
it is the scientific method
here is an example of such a presentation
http://overunity.com/17119/pulling-energy-from-the-ambient-energy-field-using-a-coil-capacitor/msg503430/#new
respectfully
Chet K
ps experiments will be done on this Magnetic voltaic potential and reported here
-
The knowledge of someone should not be ally of Harmful comments, because that is not very pleasing to the basic rules of human coexistence. This, it should apply, to anyone, without exception.
Irrespective of the contribution that some people have made, and continue to made, does not confer any rights on the behavior they systematically demonstrate.
It only denotes, the lack of maturity, to face life in a respectful way towards other people.
At what point, does intelligence or wisdom subtract basic rules of education and personal formation?
It will be that all the good contributions that some people have already offered, give them the rigth to have such behavior? What a waste of human energy.
Some people in this forum should think about this rather than trying to find "weaknesses" in other people to justify their egocentric Behavior .They help but with a stone in each hand ...
And it all started, with the simplest proposal to realize the most simple test that I have heard to this day on that forum..... 2 ground wires and one LED. Certainly the test would take less time to complete,then the conversation that has happened so far.
:(
-
Nelson
You are a very pleasant man with similar beliefs ,It is very easy to like you.
may I add one addendum to your post above
@blue
Quote
A MVP can be created using the (planet) earth, when inserting two pieces of conductive metal rods in the ground a MVP can be measured between said two rods. The rods must be placed in increments of 30m from each other and aligned in the earths N-S direction. The larger the distance between the rods, the larger the MVP.
end quote
and honestly all the aforementioned test protocols from Mr.Koala would be of great scientific importance.
perhaps we can make a line in the sand for before and after
just one mans opinion...
respectfully
Chet K
-
Nelson
You are a very pleasant man with similar beliefs ,It is very easy to like you.
may I add one addendum to your post above
@blue
Quote
A MVP can be created using the (planet) earth, when inserting two pieces of conductive metal rods in the ground a MVP can be measured between said two rods. The rods must be placed in increments of 30m from each other and aligned in the earths N-S direction. The larger the distance between the rods, the larger the MVP.
end quote
respectfully
Chet K
Ramset,
I appreciate your words ,
But everything i say is very genuine , i could say to you that are many people on the "shadows" that tell me several times in PM that not expose their ideas because have "afraid" of suck behaviors. Should not be much more interesting people discuss ideas in a health mode ?
I'm not attack anyone or ether defend anyone , just manifest my opinion about why should ever time topics end in that way ?
To me seems not correct and fair , just that . For sure Stefan have interest that forum grow and not the opposite.
Even myself when i'm wrong i appreciate hear other opinions , no problem with that , we grow and improve with criticism but not with verbal aggression, did you not agree ?
I did not talk to TK in particularly , but if you feel that he has not so correct in their approach ok to me , i'm referring even when a hear others make the same with TK . The question will remain all time :
Who threw the first stone? Cause, consequence , and is that points that should be rethink .
cheers
Nelson Rocha
-
Chet, I don't care how wducated TK is, nor how expensive his scopes were, as long as every comment of him is cynical, nitpickung and frustration-driven.
The man attacked me because my posted circuit jpg was 1.3mb, while everybody is posting files of similar sizes all the time. He said I am abusing the chip, tho the circuit is from Colin Mitchell who knows what he's doing.
I'd rather live in a community of selfteached experimenters of all levels of knowledge that has a positive mood, than with people, pretending to know everything better while being just unbearable on the communication level. There are communities in which an extremly positive moods causes great synergy. Naysayers and haters are unneccessary, no, destructive to the community, regardless of their knowledge of school standards.
Once more this screwed a thread, why don't we just ignore this bs talking and perform the experiment.
Looking forward to do that, and to see your test results too.
-
Nelson
yes your words Pain me [members afraid to post things] ,
we should after all teach whenever we can ...and learn whenever we can
and always be respectful to each other
I see the Koala helping over at Nick Z's thread and it feels so good to see this.
and to see Nick's example is wonderful too.
How can we change this [to see more of this here]?
we all need each other and we all share this same rock ??
But...perhaps our perspective has not been rubbed the wrong way as much as the science has here ?
If I tap you on the arm one time ...it is nothing... when I tap TAP TAP TAP over and over [starts to bleed]
it becomes a very sensitive spot which will linger for a long time
and just one Tap days later will make you want to punch me.
a sore spot has formed here with certain members and the simple science
we need to figure out how to address this or the forum will just be a singing choir in a church of FE
respectfully
Chet K
Ps
I see dieter has commented while I plunked
there is no ultimatum here or wasted time in this thread,the experiments will be done.
I think you can make your own world here and ask people of like mind to contribute ,as long as you follow forum rules [we all should]
but asking for scientists to not come here or be banned ?
your in the wrong forum ,you would need to start your own...
look at the example of Nick's thread nobody bothers him [them] everybody is interested and everybody tries to help
especially [lately] TinselKoala.
-
Nelson
yes your words Pain me [members afraid to post things] ,
we should after all teach whenever we can ...and learn whenever we can
and always be respectful to each other
I see the Koala helping over at Nick Z's thread and it feels so good to see this.
and to see Nick's example is wonderful too.
How can we change this ?
we all need each other and we all share this same rock ??
But...perhaps our perspective has not been rubbed the wrong way as much as the science has here ?
If I tap you on the arm one time ...it is nothing... when I tap TAP TAP TAP over and over
it becomes a very sensitive spot which will linger for a long time
and just one Tap days later will make you want to punch me.
a sore spot has formed here with certain members and the simple science
we need to figure out how to address this or the forum will just be a singing choir of ?what?
respectfully
Chet K
Dear Mr. Chet.
There's a very simple answer.....
Get out there with a couple of rods and measure....
I posted my results yesterday. " I have just measured 25 microamps at 35 millivolts. The voltage is much lower than last year when we saw 200 millivolts. " That was at a distance of 7 meters apart with a North South orientation.
My mother often said " It takes all sorts to make a world " and indeed we have allsorts here on this forum, lets just try and get along. I have always tried to treat others as I would like to be treated, it has worked for me from the time I first learned about it, another wise soul now departed.....
Kind regards, Mr. Grum.
-
Grum, did you test the wire connected on various heights over ground? Was is insulated?
-
Yes, that is right, go out and measure.
But if the claim is that the orientation must be N-S for the effect to occur.... do you only measure N-S? Or do you also measure E-W, not as a test of whether current flows, but as a test of whether the effect _depends on orientation_ as the original claim states.
Further testing should also be performed in the event that orientation IS found to be important, to further test the claim that it depends on the magnetic field of the Earth and not some other factor like soil moisture gradients or... SWER.
Here we have seen the original claimant say that E-W testing is not important and implying that therefore it should not be done. And furthermore that enough power is available to "light up your house", and does it without current flowing.
SO what part of me pointing out that it is indeed important to do those control experiments which properly test the claims ... is wrong or "trolling"?
And now we have someone else suggesting even that experimentation at all is somehow wrong. We should just accept any claim simply because it is made, and not test it, because that's a waste of time, and suggestions for properly performed experiments are "trolling"?
Hey Zephir, if you jump off the top of a ten story building and flap your arms hard enough, you can fly. Please go out and try it for yourself! And you don't even need to report your location. (But don't forget to squawk like a seagull when you try it....)
-
Dear Mr. All.
I live in a rural situation with my electricity being supplied via overhead line. The system employed is known as PME, Protective Multiple Earthing. This means that my earth conductor is also part of the Neutral conductor. I know that it is highly unlikely that I should see any AC ground effect, in fact I don't.... I see DC voltage, with obvious polarity.
Sadly my yard is totally covered in crushed and compacted Limestone and the only areas of grass are much less than 30 metres for any full test to be carried out.
I can confirm that I see voltage in West East orientation and even oblique's of the cardinal points. I have tried various metals wondering if the voltage is of a " Galvanic " nature, seems not.
In all tests I used an extension lead/cord with the three wires strapped together to reduce the resistance.
kind regards, Mr. Grum.
-
Nelson
yes your words Pain me [members afraid to post things] ,
we should after all teach whenever we can ...and learn whenever we can
and always be respectful to each other
I see the Koala helping over at Nick Z's thread and it feels so good to see this.
and to see Nick's example is wonderful too.
How can we change this [to see more of this here]?
we all need each other and we all share this same rock ??
But...perhaps our perspective has not been rubbed the wrong way as much as the science has here ?
If I tap you on the arm one time ...it is nothing... when I tap TAP TAP TAP over and over [starts to bleed]
it becomes a very sensitive spot which will linger for a long time
and just one Tap days later will make you want to punch me.
a sore spot has formed here with certain members and the simple science
we need to figure out how to address this or the forum will just be a singing choir in a church of FE
respectfully
Chet K
Ps
I see dieter has commented while I plunked
there is no ultimatum here or wasted time in this thread,the experiments will be done.
I think you can make your own world here and ask people of like mind to contribute ,as long as you follow forum rules [we all should]
but asking for scientists to not come here or be banned ?
your in the wrong forum ,you would need to start your own...
look at the example of Nick's thread nobody bothers him [them] everybody is interested and everybody tries to help
especially [lately] TinselKoala.
Seems after my post , you did not understand so clear my message .
Not need that forum become a “church of FE” just need that people respect each other nothing more and that is fair .
I not agree too , that “scientists” should not come here or be banned , because we need them and i thank by their presence , in other hand that should not mean that they have “special”treatment that alow them talk in the way they want , and same should happens with other persons , and in that way for sure everybody will gain with that .
Like i told you, my last message, was not addressed to anyone in particular even you particularize by your own intuition or maybe by your inner feeling , and was not my intent make people feel deconfortable like i see .
About your last suggestion , i will follow the rules for sure , and i did not expect less from the same “references” people of this same forum, because that forum is a free space where any one could visit , since play by the rules that are stipulated .
Seems fair to you ?
Cheers
Nelson Rocha
-
Dear Mr. All.
I live in a rural situation with my electricity being supplied via overhead line. The system employed is known as PME, Protective Multiple Earthing. This means that my earth conductor is also part of the Neutral conductor. I know that it is highly unlikely that I should see any AC ground effect, in fact I don't.... I see DC voltage, with obvious polarity.
Sadly my yard is totally covered in crushed and compacted Limestone and the only areas of grass are much less than 30 metres for any full test to be carried out.
I can confirm that I see voltage in West East orientation and even oblique's of the cardinal points. I have tried various metals wondering if the voltage is of a " Galvanic " nature, seems not.
In all tests I used an extension lead/cord with the three wires strapped together to reduce the resistance.
kind regards, Mr. Grum.
Thank you for your report. So, to underline your results, your detection of the voltage in the E-W direction as well as the N-S direction _fails to support_ the claim of "Dr"blue that the effect is orientation dependent, at least in your case. And you would not have known this had you not tried the control experiment.
It is completely wrong to say "A causes B" and then show "B" as "proof" that the claim "A" is correct. Why? Because there could be any number of other causes for "B" and simply showing "B" does not rule them out. The real scientist will try "not A" to see if "B" is still true... and if it is, then we have actually proved that "A" is not actually the sole or only cause of "B".
-
Nelson
I do understand your perspective and agree
the other references "bannings and No science" where in response to dieter as were the "personalized remarks" a direct
response to dieter and Zephir [the church stuff too].
apologies for my laziness in not specifying that [I hate typing]
I can only imagine how difficult typing here in another language would be[for me]
I will refrain from Laziness in future posts to you :-[[mixing generic responses to others]
also
I did make additional response to dieter when I saw he posted while I was typing .
@ Tinsel
Grums experiment as noted is not at the 30M benchmark set by the drblue ,I have no idea how to differentiate this energy from "No current magnetic Voltaic potential energy "?
it has not been explained yet ,
Grum's contribution is however a good start to some control experiments to vet this claim/
-
Nelson
I do understand your perspective and agree
the other references "bannings and No science" where in response to dieter as were the "personalized remarks" a direct
response to dieter and Zephir [the church stuff too].
apologies for my laziness in not specifying that [I hate typing]
I can only imagine how difficult typing here in another language would be[for me]
I will refrain from Laziness in future posts to you :-[[mixing generic responses to others]
also
I did make additional response to dieter when I saw he posted while I was typing .
@ Tinsel
Grums experiment as noted is not at the 30M benchmark set by the drblue ,I have no idea how to differentiate this energy from "No current magnetic Voltaic potential energy "?
it has not been explained yet ,
Grum's contribution is however a good start to some control experiments to vet this claim/
Hi Ramset ,
Myself will try make some of this tests in the mean time when arrive at Portugal , and i will glad to relate what i register . I have a portable scope , and i could take some data shot's to publish after .
Cheers
Nelson Rocha
-
Dear Mr. All.
A short video demonstration showing how SWER works even at LV levels.
https://youtu.be/JcPu4Ie47vA
WARNING Don't try this at home unless you're electrically competent!!
This video was the last in which my fairly expensive DMM starred in, the voltage output was in fact 220 VAC not 197 !!
Kind regards, Mr. Grum.
-
@ramset, grumage: before starting the utilization of MVP/SWER, you should make sure about its nature with oscilloscope: which voltage you're drawing from your ground pipes? Which frequency it has? If it has exactly 50/60 Hz, then you're just draining some stray voltage (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stray_voltage) from nearby railway, HV grid or something similar, which isn't worth the attention (http://www.radio.cz/en/section/curraffrs/mystery-of-czech-haunted-house-explained) - you'll just contribute to their corrosion (http://www.iti.northwestern.edu/publications/barlo_zdunek/Barlo_and_Zdunek-1995-Stray%20Current%20Corrosion%20in%20Electrified%20Rail%20Systems.pdf) instead.
-
Dear Mr. Zephir.
I am well aware, maybe you missed some earlier posts?
What I'm seeing isn't AC, I did oscilloscope tests right at the beginning using a UPS to eliminate any contamination from my industry supply. I saw nothing of an AC nature at all.
My own opinion is that this energy is part of either the Hartmaan or Currie grid system that covers planet earth. As previously stated I was able to partially follow lines and crossings using my dowsing rods.
Kind regards, Mr. Grum.
-
What I'm seeing isn't AC, I did oscilloscope tests right at the beginning using a UPS to eliminate any contamination from my industry supply.
Which oscillograms did you actually measure (link)? Was the signal flat or did it have some AC component? Which amplitude it had? The LED will work with AC/DC signal as well as the UPS, because the UPS contain a rectifying diode at input, which protects the rest of circuit against backward current.
I was able to partially follow lines and crossings using my dowsing rods.
Do you have some map of these observations with major railways, water mains and power grid lines also labeled? The dowsing rods are sensitive to grid lines and indeed to underground metallic pipes too.
-
Which oscillograms did you actually measure (link)? Was the signal flat or did it have some AC component? Which amplitude it had? The LED will work with AC/DC signal as well as the UPS, because the UPS contain a rectifying diode at input, which protects the rest of circuit against backward current.
Do you have some map of these observations with major railways, water mains and power grid lines also labeled? The dowsing rods are sensitive to grid lines and indeed to underground metallic pipes too.
My dear Mr. Zephir.
At the risk of sounding blunt, did you actually understand my previous post?
The UPS that was used in the test was totally isolated, unplugged, sat on an insulative base along with the oscilloscope. I saw no ripple whatsoever.
I'm well aware that dowsing can be affected by many external influences, but......
In my younger days I could actually tell a person what the denomination of coin they had hidden under the hearth rug before it was revealed!!
The " Art " was taught to me as an apprentice by my first employer, the local Water company. It was the only effective means of detecting hidden water mains that were not made of metal.
Kind regards, Mr. Grum.
-
Zephir
it is not our first summer here...
you have a knack for stating the profoundly obvious
you have come here with amazing "copy pastes"
which can be found in 5 seconds or less on a google search [not just talking about this thread
can you offer anything original or unique that fellows here can build or try ?
your act is getting old VERY QUICKLY
after all its not our first summer here we have seen this all before MANY TIMES
all talk no action ??
whats it gonna be ??
-
along with the oscilloscope. I saw no ripple whatsoever
Why not to send photo or screenshot? Which open circuit voltage you got, which differential resistance it had?
How much current and power you can draw from it? What we are supposed to discuss here actually?
Everyone knows, that he cannot get draw too much power from pipes burrowed in Earth.
Even if it would work in a way unexplainable with mainstream physics, such a way of energy production looks extremely impractical.
You cannot travel with it, the energy/power density/load is low and it will probably corrode the ground pipes soon or later.
Your thread provides no clue how to replicate/falsify it. It even provides no data.
you have come here with amazing "copy pastes" which can be found in 5 seconds or less on a google search
So why nobody else (including you) did still post it in this thread?
The UPS that was used in the test was totally isolated, unplugged, sat on an insulative base along with the oscilloscope
How did you connected it to your pipes (diagram)?
-
My dear Mr. Zephir.
A scope shot of a flat line would be rather boring, don't you think?
" My thread " ?
I don't think so..... I merely contributed with some video observations I made last year.
" Pipes "
Not pipes but commercially available Copper plated Earth rods. I brought the distant rod back to the oscilloscope using a standard extension lead/cord and used my standard oscilloscope leads clipped to the ends.
Kind regards, Mr. Grum.
-
A scope shot of a flat line would be rather boring, don't you think?
Could you measure it at longer time scale (overnight)? Which voltage you did measure, which currents, which distance of electrodes did you use? How the voltage did change with distance of Earth rods (function curve)? How this function depends on orientation (south-north, west-east) of earth circuit with respect to geomagnetic pole?
Not pipes but commercially available Copper plated Earth rods. I brought the distant rod back to the oscilloscope using a standard extension lead/cord and used my standard oscilloscope leads clipped to the ends.
Could you collect all data about your experiment at single place (link)?
-
@Mr.Grum, I think bringing the distant rod back with an additional cable may pretty much nullify the effect. You probably better use the extension cord to position the scope in the middle of the wire, or just in series at its first rod. Tho, if it really is some nonconventional current, the scope may kill it. The LED test seems to be the most straight forward setup. At daytime, the LED may be housed in a cardboardbox with a peek hole, so it can be seen when lit, despite the daylight.
An other idea was to use an iron wire and wrap one layer of a copper coil over the entire length. That however would be inductive. But I don't want to change the subject.
-
@Mr.Grum, I think bringing the distant rod back with an additional cable may pretty much nullify the effect. You probably better use the extension cord to position the scope in the middle of the wire, or just in series at its first rod. Tho, if it really is some nonconventional current, the scope may kill it. The LED test seems to be the most straight forward setup. At daytime, the LED may be housed in a cardboardbox with a peek hole, so it can be seen when lit, despite the daylight.
An other idea was to use an iron wire and wrap one layer of a copper coil over the entire length. However would be inductive. But I don't want to change the subject.
Hi to all, at the risk of appearing pompous and self-righteous, with a dash of arrogance, as we all have our moments but there does appear to be a negative energy in here, And talking of dowsing I get a feeling this disruptive energy has a way of reinventing itself as it's been on here before I feel, but at the end of the day you can always take the fool to knowledge but you can't make them think, sorry for changing the thread focus somewhat, my apologies. but I feel the objective here is to dissuade people from posting use full information that might be of interest to others with hostile bureaucracy.
Regards AG
-
Is it possible that the zero current measurement by dr. blue is such because the source is such a high frequency that the DC measurement on the DMM can't see it but some of the LED's are able to rectify enough of it to light up? Or would that then show up on the meter? Or is it possible it's then a pulsing DC at a frequency high enough that the meter can't read it?
-
Is it possible that the zero current measurement by dr. blue is such because the source is such a high frequency that the DC measurement on the DMM can't see it but some of the LED's are able to rectify enough of it to light up? Or would that then show up on the meter? Or is it possible it's then a pulsing DC at a frequency high enough that the meter can't read it?
Yes, of course that is possible and I have demonstrated that effect several times, as have others.
There are other.... less charitable.... explanations as well.
What is not possible is for the LEDs to light up with no current flowing through them.
-
Dear Mr. Chet
At this point it is anybody guess as to which LED's will work, personally I didn't keep track of manufacturers as they all worked with classical current, and that was the only application I had for them in the past. With the limited inventory I have, it's my impression that only every 3rd or so will work, even if it's from the same batch.
Some LED's will work, some will not work, some will only light up once and never work again, some will light up brightly, some will only glow slightly. Some LED panels work, some will not, some will only light up some of the individual LED's, some will... etc etc. But ALL will work flawlessly with classical current.
Therefore we would like to collect data about the LED's used, and maybe we will be able to isolate the exact reason why some work and some don't. The current working theory is that the reason must be found at the atomic level.
I provided a datasheet in my initial post for the 60V filament type LED panels, but that won't do you any good if you have less than 60V MVP at your location.
I have attached a picture of some of my inventory, those on the left work, and those on right don't work (in full), but maybe those that do not work for me will work for you and vice versa, alas additional research is required.
Kind regards
What are those large square LED matrices (post 24 on page 2)? How are they described? they look very interesting.
-
If the LEDs light up with "no current flowing", then why do they need to be connected at all, with wires, to a source that is known to produce current?
-
I have made a quick test, but cannot disprove or verify the claim so far.
An enameled copper wire 0.3mm was connected to 2 soft iron rods, about 4mm diameter. The distance was about
30m +- 5cm. The wire went south north based on compass readings. The rods stuck about 10cm deep in the soil. The wire
was attached near the top of the rods at a height of about 35cm. The wire hanged somewhat trough in the middle, so it
did touch many grass plants. It did not touch the ground tho.
First readings were encouraging. When measuring amps and volts between one end of the wire (or the rod, as
they were connected) and the nearby ground, I was getting -0.7vdc unloaded and between 15 and 25 Microamps when basicly
shortened. I plugged the multimeter right into the ground. I suspect the tip is made of zinc coated copper and thought
it may be a voltaic pile effect. So I used a steel screwdriver as "the ground" and measured between screwdriver and rod/wire.
This increased the amps to 66 uA, but lowered the voltage to -0.45 vdc. Obviously, the ground being positive, suggested
a voltaic pile reaction.
So I disconnected the 30m wire from the rod and measured between rod and wire, there was nothing, no voltage and no
amps. Then I measured between rod (wire not attached) and screwdriver and was getting again 66uA at -0.45vdc.
So the wire did not contribute anything observable.
I tried 3 LEDs: a single blink led 20mA (I think they have a tiny cap built in), a superbright blue 100mA (these are
internally 5 LEDs in parallel, thus have only 20% resistance and light up at miniscule charges) and a LED panel of
maybe 200 lumen of unknown specs. I could not see any slightest light from any of these LEDs. Because it was
bright daylight, I held the LED very close to my eye and should have seen it. However I'd reccommend to do this
experiment at night, if possible.
My results seem to be a voltaic pile effect between 2 disimilar metals. Although the variation in distance between
rod and screwdriver (eg. whether 10 or 20 cm) did not alter the current or voltage, and the soft iron rods are chemicly
close to the tool steel screwdriver (Chrome Steel with additions of vanadium or cobalt I would guess), this may
still be voltaic. A voltaic current flows even between similar metals, if the molecular structure varies. (I did
voltaic batteries made from graphite and activated carbon, which works nicely but releases CO, btw.)
As this was a quick test and maybe I did it wrong, I wouldn't say I disproved anything. The fact that I was
getting the same energy regardless of whether the wire was actually attached to the rod or not indicates, that
my results have nothing to do with the subject matter. However, it can be said that it isn't as easy as it sounds
at first glance, to perform this test.
I was also missing some information (probably just missed to read it in here?), like where to connect the LEDs at all,
in series between wire and rod, or between rod and an other ground. How critical is the precise length of the wire?
Does it matter if the wire between the rods is precisely 30m, but the wire then ends about 50 cm after the
fixation? And at what height is it supposed to be suspended at all. What is the min size of the rods....
Anyhow, such a test outdoors at a sunny day is much more fun than endless talking.