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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 376426 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #450 on: April 08, 2017, 03:19:57 AM »
Zephir
(snip)
have you done work there which could help guide  experimenters towards a true anomaly ?
(snip)

He has been asked many times to produce evidence of a build or experiment of his own and he always dodges the question, just as he has done now.
So I have concluded that he has not done and cannot do what you are asking. Am I wrong? Could be... let's see the proof. Linking to Infinity SAV Team as "evidence"?  I don't think so. They violate Conservation of Miracles.    ;)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #451 on: April 08, 2017, 03:34:07 AM »
It isn't, which becomes evident, once you attempt to answer the question: "And what this bed is testing?".

The testbed is always supposed to test some theory of function. The scientific method is always based on falsification of theory.
The blind random tinkering is not falsification of theory, i.e. not scientific approach.

This bed is testing whether or not a TBF coil will work in the most basic rudimentary JT circuit with PNP transistor and many LEDs in series. The hypothesis under test is this: If I connect a low-inductance TBF pancake coil in a standard PNP JT circuit, it will work just about as well as an ordinary solenoidal or toroidal coil. The test fails to reject this hypothesis.

I pointed out that the toroid is not connected to avoid confusion, since I've used this testbed to test many different coils, transistors and loads, and one cannot see clearly in the photo that it is not connected. I imagine that there will be one or two people reading this that could be surprised and even interested that a TBF pancake coil will work in this circuit.

Don't try to teach an old boy how to suck eggs, credulous Zephir. If you think this is "blind random tinkering" ... let's see some work of your own that is any different.  I've lost count of how many times you have dodged this challenge.
 

Have you tried jumping off a building and flapping your arms to see if you can fly yet? I'll bet you haven't.

And let's see some real proof that a "scalar bubble" exists, and that the effect the circuit you posted _might_ demonstrate is caused by some such entity and not by something else already known to conventional physics.


Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #452 on: April 08, 2017, 03:42:53 AM »
Infinity SAV Team? You are really hilarious. You might as well cite Veproject for your "overunity" reference.

They did not pass my quality control system either.  lol

Do you want to be a distributor?

Quote
Distributor agrees to the day of submitting the Fossil Fuel Free Generator to pay a deposit amount of 100,000 US dollars.

In the musings of my mind there is a kind of Charlie's Angels team of svelte yet shapely women that fight for truth and justice and the American Way.  There are five of these powerful women and they call themselves Luck Force Five.  Think of Russ Meyer making movies of their exploits.

You can just imagine this team of beautiful intelligent women "busting" Infinity SAV Team - Luck Force Five vs. Infinity SAV Team.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #452 on: April 08, 2017, 03:42:53 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #453 on: April 08, 2017, 05:15:40 AM »
If we measure a pancake coil for inductance, would that necessarily be the value calculated with measured capacitance of the bifi windings, give the actual value of the resonant freq? Or would it be a wider band than a single layer bifi rod coil?

Like if we measured the inductance of just a couple turns on the inner dia vs measuring the inductance of a couple outer turns, would that measurement be the same?

Then if we calculated those measurements with measured capacitance, would we find the same resonant freq value? 

Was just thinking if maybe the highest resonant peak may have a kinda wider bandwidth than say a single layer cylinder bifi coil which should have a fairly sharper peak.

Had bought some RS flat speaker cable some time back when a RS store closed, and cheap, with some ideas to fiddle with in this area. Can split the wire pair down the middle to make the bifi pair. Was thinking of the flat wire would have more capacitance vs round wire.

Mags

Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #454 on: April 08, 2017, 08:59:36 AM »
If we measure a pancake coil for inductance, would that necessarily be the value calculated with measured capacitance of the bifi windings, give the actual value of the resonant freq? Or would it be a wider band than a single layer bifi rod coil?

Like if we measured the inductance of just a couple turns on the inner dia vs measuring the inductance of a couple outer turns, would that measurement be the same?

Then if we calculated those measurements with measured capacitance, would we find the same resonant freq value? 

Was just thinking if maybe the highest resonant peak may have a kinda wider bandwidth than say a single layer cylinder bifi coil which should have a fairly sharper peak.

Had bought some RS flat speaker cable some time back when a RS store closed, and cheap, with some ideas to fiddle with in this area. Can split the wire pair down the middle to make the bifi pair. Was thinking of the flat wire would have more capacitance vs round wire.

Mags
flat speaker wire. Sounds excellent! it will give bigger capacity, but its also important how close the bifilar windings  wires are. If the coating isnt to thick...

also,  when using multiple bifilar pancake coils on top of eachother,  the capacitance changes. the dielectric fields start interacting with eachother.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #454 on: April 08, 2017, 08:59:36 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #455 on: April 08, 2017, 10:11:16 AM »
Sorry for off topic [@ Magluvin nice moderator suit ]

but Zephir posted this and I would like to know if we have this in a topic here?
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq_qGHzYorAsR4sYi3m50sA/videos
and has anybody here called these guys or visited them yet and shared ??

also on topic question to Zephir on this
quote
So if you want to demonstrate anomaly with your coil, you shouldn't utilize it as a boring classical transformer - you should give it chance to demonstrate more/something else.
end quote

@ Zephir
How to do this [ More/]something else
??
thx

Chet


Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #456 on: April 08, 2017, 11:01:57 AM »
yeesh that bear gives me the creeps....

In the meantime perhaps a discussion of  these on topic experiments ?


Grum's  replication of Nelsons schematic below [more replications to come]
https://youtu.be/m6lmd0HKxOw

the transistor schems below [posted by Tinsel] are for explaining the seeming "selfrunning" when the gate is removed in Grum's vid.

also to note the Neon bulb Vid will hopefully be discussed here too, as well as the power required to actually light this 80V NE2 neon bulb

Note ...there may be a few other ON TOPIC Vids added to this thread as time goes by


respectfully
Chet K

For people interested some replications of the mini exciter. Mini exciter was not designed to light Neon bulbs .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ8TX0bPCL8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bY3Mr2pAErw

Cheers

Nelson Rocha

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #456 on: April 08, 2017, 11:01:57 AM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #457 on: April 08, 2017, 11:31:07 AM »
Quote
but Zephir posted this and I would like to know if we have this in a topic here? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq_qGHzYorAsR4sYi3m50sA/videos and has anybody here called these guys or visited them yet and shared?

The pathoskeptic character of this forum is just in the point, that the only company which provides overunity devices at commercial basis gets systematically ridiculed in this forum, whereas its active members are flooding forum with their useless demonstrations of classical physics. If you would read Nelson Rocha's posts, you could also read that he "sold his technology to South Korean company" - so we can just connect the dots and we can ask, which company it actually was, if the Infinity SAV Team resides at Soul?

Quote
Distributor agrees to the day of submitting the Fossil Fuel Free Generator to pay a deposit amount of 100,000 US dollars.

Would Infinity SAV would pay for technology, if it wouldn't actually work? And if it did pay for it and this technology works - why it shouldn't want to get its money back? Once some distributor buys working overunity device, then he also gets its know-how automatically, because every such a device can be reversely engineered. Infinity SAV Team must somehow protect itself against dishonest dealers, who will never sell anything and who just want to steal its know-how.

Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #458 on: April 08, 2017, 11:35:23 AM »
Quote
For people interested some replications of the mini exciter. Mini exciter was not designed to light Neon bulbs.

Why we should be interested for it if you admitted already, that it doesn't generate overunity?  What this device is supposed to illustrate after then? Many devices can draw lower current at higher powering voltages, whereas their load power still increases - but this is still not demonstration of any overunity. The impedance of motor increases with increased revolutions, but it still draws more power from load. The light bulb behaves in the same way due to dependence of its resistance on temperature of filament, so it can serve as a varistor.

Quote
If I connect a low-inductance TBF pancake coil in a standard PNP JT circuit, it will work just about as well as an ordinary solenoidal or toroidal coil. The test fails to reject this hypothesis.


The question is, why it should behave differently?  You even didn't measure the input and output power of your circuit, so your experiment is completely useless. Even if such a coil would provide the overunity, would it behave differently in Joule Thief circuit? You should arrange the circuit in a way, which would allow the occasional overunity to manifest itself at output rather than wasted in base current.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #458 on: April 08, 2017, 11:35:23 AM »
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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #459 on: April 08, 2017, 11:53:05 AM »
Why we should be interested for it if you admitted already, that it doesn't generate overunity?  What this device is supposed to illustrate after then? Many devices can draw lower current at higher powering voltages, whereas their load power still increases - but this is still not demonstration of any overunity. The impedance of motor increases with increased revolutions, but it still draws more power from load. The light bulb behaves in the same way due to dependence of its resistance on temperature of filament, so it can serve as a varistor.

Hi Zephir ,
you should not particularize your inner feelings because maybe exist more people interested . If you don't want, is up to you my friend , but let me tell you that a house is not started from the roof . I told you that circuit should be used like a tool to be study , nothing more .

Since the begin you are make a desperate effort to "suck" something more from me (info), but i will tell you exactly what i tell before to you in PM :
I'm not in this forum to sell nothing , i don't want your money offers ether from others . What i give is free ! without recall nothing in exchange .
So you should take or leave , nothing of your arguments will convince me .

Have a nice day

Nelson Rocha

Offline Grumage

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #460 on: April 08, 2017, 12:29:11 PM »
Good morning Nelson.

May I ask a simple question regarding your " Mini Radiant Exciter " circuit, schematic posted on the previous page?

I used a commercial " potted " 240/24 0 24 transformer just using one of the 24 volt windings.

It is connected in series from source.

Is it the 240 volt or the 24 volt winding that's in series from the source? As it has been some time since I built it I have forgotten which way I used the transformer.   :)

I'm thinking of having another look at this....... ;)

Kind regards, Graham.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #460 on: April 08, 2017, 12:29:11 PM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #461 on: April 08, 2017, 12:30:06 PM »
Quote
I'm not in this forum to sell nothing , i don't want your money offers ether from others

I didn't promise you any money. But once you submit the link to some silent presentations without further explanation, then it's legitimate for us to ask for a better explanation - don't you think? It's indeed your full right to dismiss it - but you shouldn't consider it as a business proposal, because it isn't, desperate the less.

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #462 on: April 08, 2017, 01:04:46 PM »

Wrong again! All real wires have resistance and ALL REAL CAPACITORS do too. Look up "ESR" wrt capacitors. inFor this claim of yours to be true you would have to have a capacitor with zero resistance and a connection with zero resistance, both impossible  reality, and the current on charge and discharge would be _infinite_, taking no time, which is what a vertical line means. Infinite slope! A change in charge over +no change in time+ !!!! Ridiculous on the face of it, as everyone _actually_ knows.
 
Good luck with that.

Anyone with a scope and the wit to use it can prove you wrong in fifteen minutes.

You want to keep moving goalposts and constructing your strawman arguments instead of admitting that you were wrong, go ahead. You'll wind up here just like you wound up at EF: nobody pays attention to you since they all know that you are full of yourself, you misrepresent and misunderstand and prevaricate, and you will never admit that you are wrong.

@Tinselkoala,

Tesla's first patent described his "Spark Gap Generator". A capacitor has one plate attached to a ground and the other plate to an antenna. There are spark gap electrodes between the capacitor plates that are in close adjacency to the plates. A radiant charge builds between the capacitor plates. This charge reduces resistance between the spark gap electrodes and when the resistance drops below the charge level a spark occurs.   

Take a look at the outrageous and pompous statement you made above in your fattened conceit: "For this claim of yours to be true you would have to have a capacitor with zero resistance and a connection with zero resistance, both impossible"

Where's the resistance when the spark occurs? 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #463 on: April 08, 2017, 01:19:50 PM »
Would Infinity SAV would pay for technology, if it wouldn't actually work? And if it did pay for it and this technology works - why it shouldn't want to get its money back? Once some distributor buys working overunity device, then he also gets its know-how automatically, because every such a device can be reversely engineered. Infinity SAV Team must somehow protect itself against dishonest dealers, who will never sell anything and who just want to steal its know-how.

There is a sucker born every minute.  In my opinion "World Infinity SAV" comes from the "Mike Brady" school of "Perendev motor" infamy.  You can look him up for yourself.  Therefore in my opinion they are criminals.

"Infinity SAV Team" are looking for people just like you that want to believe and they have money to "invest."  The money will never be recuperated, they want to steal it and live off of it without having to work.

As far as the "free energy machine" goes, I will just quote myself when discussing Wayne Travis and his groaning bellows machine:

<<< If what he had was real, it would completely shake the world up and be the biggest news story of the 21st century.  It would completely change civilization.  Wayne would be on the cover of Time and Newsweek.  What you have instead is Wayne pitching, "Soon we will be in the business of selling energy systems to our customers" as if he was talking about something mundane like selling prefabricated garages to industrial customers.  It's just totally ridiculous.  If you step outside of the "bubble" you can see the tragicomic aspect to this whole farce.  >>>

The same thing applies here.

Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #464 on: April 08, 2017, 01:24:43 PM »
Quote
In my opinion "World Infinity SAV" comes from the "Mike Brady" school of "Perendev motor" infamy.

Your opinion is solely unqualified, the principle of Infinity SAV Team's generator is completely different from Perendev motor - it even works in opposite way: i.e. as a dynamo. The fact, that layman like you sees some aluminum cylinder stuffed with neodymium magnets doesn't imply, it's a Perendev motor of sort.

Quote
There is a sucker born every minute.

Such us? Who actually sells the overunity device at the web in this moment? Instead of it, the patoskeptic trolls are flooding this forum every minute.

Quote
If what he had was real, it would completely shake the world up and be the biggest news story of the 21st century.

LOL, the Copernicus theory was real and yet the mainstream science didn't even bother to look at it for another 160 years. The first attempt for replication of overunity in electrical circuit is currently delayed for 145 years (Cook 1871), cold fusion finding 90 years (Panneth/Petters 1926), Woodward drive 26 years, EMDrive 18 years and room superconductivity finding by 45 years. And I'm not even talking about some industrial utilization - only about first serious attempt for replication published in peer-reviewed literature. The findings get accepted only when they add jobs and profit to existing ruling class, once they threaten it (which is typical just for actually breakthrough findings - i.e. not incremental progress), then they get ignored with no mercy. From this perspective, the ignorance of breakthrough findings is rather strict rule, than some socioeconomical anomaly.

The "argument of yours" is most typical pluralistic ignorance fallacy of pathoskeptics: if these findings are real breakthroughs, how is it possible, that nobody is bothered with attempts for their replications?

 

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