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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 377004 times)

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #435 on: April 07, 2017, 08:43:06 PM »
SO when you say, "the max charge rate is at .33 capacity" you didn't actually _mean_ that the maximum charge rate is at .33 capacity? Or when you say "slow starting followed by a gush at .67" you didn't actually _mean_ slow starting or that there is a gush at .67?

I see. Well, you will have to excuse me for misunderstanding then, since I can only go by what you SAY, not what you claim to have meant.

(insert facepalm character here)

You're stinking drunk and a slob!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #436 on: April 07, 2017, 08:50:31 PM »
You're stinking drunk and a slob!

Preserved for posterity.

And, by the way... wrong again, twice over! 

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #437 on: April 07, 2017, 08:52:49 PM »
Preserved for posterity.

And, by the way... wrong again, twice over!

Barf, blubber puss sucking shyster schwienehunt!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #437 on: April 07, 2017, 08:52:49 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #438 on: April 07, 2017, 09:16:21 PM »
Barf, blubber puss sucking scheiskopf swienehunt!

Your German spelling needs a little work.

Why don't you try holding your breath until you turn blue, and jumping up and down and stomping your feet? Maybe that will make your false claims go away where nobody can see them.

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #439 on: April 07, 2017, 09:21:50 PM »
Your German spelling needs a little work.

Why don't you try holding your breath until you turn blue, and jumping up and down and stomping your feet? Maybe that will make your false claims go away where nobody can see them.

Booze hound!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #439 on: April 07, 2017, 09:21:50 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #440 on: April 07, 2017, 09:29:09 PM »
Booze hound!

Better watch out, the Drop Bear might come and getcha!


Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #441 on: April 07, 2017, 09:45:14 PM »
yeesh that bear gives me the creeps....

In the meantime perhaps a discussion of  these on topic experiments ?


REPOST
skycollection 1

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency

« Reply #415 on: April 06, 2017, 06:28:15 PM »


Quote
 I have many years sutying the pancake coils and this is my last video about my "multifilar pancake coil", this consist in six groups of pancake coils, one group consist in six pancake coils connected in series, all the groups are isolated from each other and all the pancake coils are in parallel in the same place (in a PBC PIPE) in my experiment i am using my circuit JL94 with two transistors like the drawing diagram that i am presenting in my video, when i move a magnet in the centre the circuit and the coils "enters in self oscillation" and all the groups "induces" the current to the led bulbs with great intensity, i have connected to the circuit only one group of pancake coils, the other groups are "pickup coils".
this is the experiment...: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ln7AEpxMeY
Saludos from mexico, Jorge Rebolledo

see also
REPOST
Grum's  replication of Nelsons schematic below [more replications to come]
https://youtu.be/m6lmd0HKxOw

the transistor schems below [posted by Tinsel] are for explaining the seeming "selfrunning" when the gate is removed in Grum's vid.

also to note the Neon bulb Vid will hopefully be discussed here too, as well as the power required to actually light this 80V NE2 neon bulb

Note ...there may be a few other ON TOPIC Vids added to this thread as time goes by


respectfully
Chet K


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #441 on: April 07, 2017, 09:45:14 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #442 on: April 08, 2017, 12:39:28 AM »
Neons like the typical NE-2 or NE-2a require very little current to light up quite well, once the "striking" voltage is reached. Typical currents are 400-800 microamps. And the voltage to sustain the glow drops a bit once the striking voltage is reached. So a "90" volt neon will strike at 90 volts and can stay lit as low as 60 volts, while needing only, say, 500 microamps of current. (But since the resistance of the plasma is very low, they can draw as much current as you will allow them to, with sometimes disastrous results, so current-limiting resistors are typically used in "ordinary" applications. )
So... figure for example 75 V x 500 uA = about 38 milliwatts of power or even less for a good healthy glow. This is not much more power than a typical high-brightness 5mm LED needs. Or, looking at the minimums, 60 V x 400 uA = 24 milliwatts. Whereas a blue LED at 3.3 Vx 10 mA = 33 mW.  So you can get a NE-2 to light up with ridiculously low amounts of average power especially if you pulse it with very short pulses.

Or I can, anyway.    ;)


Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #443 on: April 08, 2017, 01:33:57 AM »
Nice demos guys but you should focus to the problem, which is overunity from bifilar pancake coils. This it the only thing which matters here. You should think on it every time, you're posting something here, or you'll lose drive and later even motivation to continue and you'll become a resigned pathoskeptic like TinselKoala. Like it or not, the inventive mind requires focus to problem and a discipline. If you look at the biography of all great inventors, you'll realize, they were often quite average people in many aspects - but they were always sharply focused and dedicated to particular problem, which they solved. The mindless senile twaddling and tinkering fancy demos from JouleThief circuits is very comfortable and maybe entertaining life style - but it will not move us forward: even if you would make thousands of such an "experiments" during whole your productive life, you'll not become an overunity expert anyway.

I can see a connection point in NelsonRocha circuit and Jorge Rebolledo's layered pancake coils: these devices both generate the variable magnetic fields of the opposite polarity against each other like so-called bucking anti-Lenz coils. Such a fields produce a scalar waves in my theory, i.e. the compression waves of vacuum, which temporarily change the speed of EM wave propagation and create anapole condition for overunity. Instead of ferromagnet you can use the evanescent mode of EM wave propagation along wire as an active environment. The layers of pancake coils are better than single coil, but you should ensure, that the current will always flow in alternate direction across neighboring wires, which requires precious construction of coils.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #443 on: April 08, 2017, 01:33:57 AM »
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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #444 on: April 08, 2017, 01:38:51 AM »
Neons like the typical NE-2 or NE-2a require very little current to light up quite well, once the "striking" voltage is reached. Typical currents are 400-800 microamps. And the voltage to sustain the glow drops a bit once the striking voltage is reached. So a "90" volt neon will strike at 90 volts and can stay lit as low as 60 volts, while needing only, say, 500 microamps of current. (But since the resistance of the plasma is very low, they can draw as much current as you will allow them to, with sometimes disastrous results, so current-limiting resistors are typically used in "ordinary" applications. )
So... figure for example 75 V x 500 uA = about 38 milliwatts of power or even less for a good healthy glow. This is not much more power than a typical high-brightness 5mm LED needs. Or, looking at the minimums, 60 V x 400 uA = 24 milliwatts. Whereas a blue LED at 3.3 Vx 10 mA = 33 mW.  So you can get a NE-2 to light up with ridiculously low amounts of average power especially if you pulse it with very short pulses.

Or I can, anyway.    ;)

Seems , are improving the interest in NE-2   :) i left a very nice book to people love "play" with them https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByZY5hj0h0hXaGZZUGRVYklkM0U and another https://drive.google.com/open?id=0ByZY5hj0h0hXS3Npazk2blBzMWc

Thanks for share :)

Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #445 on: April 08, 2017, 02:36:32 AM »
Zephir
MANY  persons here played with setups like you posted above for YEARS ,and no one EVER found anything anomalous
well honestly I only spoke with about twenty or so persons who share here and elsewhere open source .
probably thousands of hours collectively spent there and even with Pancake coils

have you done work there which could help guide  experimenters towards a true anomaly ?

maybe a build you can point to ??


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #445 on: April 08, 2017, 02:36:32 AM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #446 on: April 08, 2017, 02:49:22 AM »
Quote
MANY  persons here played with setups like you posted above for YEARS, and no one EVER found anything anomalous

This is because the people who found it immediately leaved this forum (Akula) or placed embargo to every just a bit useful information about it (NelsonRocha). So you can get a perception, which you just presented here. But if you would construct the Joule Thief and Tesla coils with bifilar coils like TinselKoala is doing, then you never will find something interesting, because you'll utilize this component just in applications, in which it behaves like normal coil and in which its anomalous behavior cannot manifest itself.

If you want to find an overunity for inductive hob for example, you shouldn't use and wire it as a hob, because the hob is supposed to consume energy, not to produce it - got it? You should therefore know, where to look for it - and it requires to have strategy and some at least rudimentary theory of overunity prepared. The plain blind tinkering can get successful only by pure rare accident - and all people who succeed with it have no motivation to share information with others anymore. I can point to many builds (for example Infinity SAV Team  already collected many working findings) - but the viable route for collective overunity development leads through public sharing and improving theory, not experiments. We already have YouTube full of working overunity devices - but because we don't have their theory, we cannot replicate them.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #447 on: April 08, 2017, 03:10:21 AM »
Infinity SAV team? You are really hilarious. You might as well cite Veproject for your "overunity" reference.

Meanwhile:

Tesla Bifilar Pancake Joule Thief, lighting up 24 LEDs in a 12-series, 2-parallel array, using a PNP transistor (BC556B) and one AAA battery.
(That is 12 LEDs in series, and this in parallel with another 12 LEDs in series.)

(This is my JT testbed, the toroid coil at bottom left is not connected for this demonstration.)


Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #448 on: April 08, 2017, 03:14:09 AM »
The principal test bed for overunity device is the scalar bubble: the planar capacitor or pair of (electro)magnets in opposite direction of magnetic poles. The bifilar coil is using air core, so its effect are weaker, but its magnetic fields are colliding along larger area. The scalar bubble exhibits increased level of electrostatic noise, which can be detected as a voltage with pin diode (small surface area of PN junction prohibits averaging this noise).

Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #449 on: April 08, 2017, 03:17:25 AM »
Quote
This is my JT testbed, the toroid coil at bottom left is not connected for this demonstration

It isn't, which becomes evident, once you attempt to answer the question: "And what this bed is testing?".

The testbed is always supposed to test some theory of function. The scientific method is always based on falsification of theory or at least model.
The blind random tinkering is not falsification of theory, i.e. it is not scientific approach.

What you demonstrated above as a testbed is a trivial Joule Thief oscillator circuit, just with pancake bifilar coil instead of normal toroid one used for positive feedback (every oscillator requires some positive feedback loop). The Joule Thief circuit (Armstrong oscillator) utilizes the transformer effect of inductor pair for this purpose, which bifilar coil provides too - but this effect is very classical one - so it doesn't lead into overunity. Once you utilize the pair of wires as an transformer, it will work like the transformer in similar way, like when you use an induction hob as an induction hob. No matter if you arrange the pair of wires into form of bifilar, solenoid or toroid or caduceus or Rodin coil or whatever else coil - the geometry is not important, the principle of function is what matters here. The (utilization of) very classical principle (of transformer) provides very classical results: nothing less, nothing more.

Your testbed is therefore testing the ability of bifilar coil to serve as a transformer for positive loop in Armstrong oscillator circuit. This is nice, but nothing spectacular, miraculous the less. Even if you would achieve to use an overunity transformer in JouleThief circuit, it wouldn't become a self-running just because of it, because the secondary winding is used only for driving base current of transistor. The transistor doesn't care, if you bring larger or smaller current into base, once the condition for positive feedback loop gets fulfilled. If you increase the current of base electrode, you'll just have higher amount of electricity wasted.

So if you want to demonstrate anomaly with your coil, you shouldn't utilize it as a boring classical transformer - you should give it chance to demonstrate more/something else.

 

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