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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 369793 times)

Offline Grumage

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #405 on: April 06, 2017, 07:52:35 PM »
Hi dear Grumage ,
I didn't know that you replicate the circuit , and i thank by that because only very few people test it  . hope you like it and could help you learn some interesting aspects that circuit could show  .

Take careful , to avoid hear that you are using  super capacitors, disguised as normal capacitors, to the oscillations continue after power source be disconnected ;) myself hear thousands times that ;)

cheers

Nelson Rocha

Dear Nelson.

You're welcome and yes, I had some interesting times....... AND not a single supercap in sight !!  ;D

Maybe Dog One might chip in ?

For dear Mr. Koala.....

http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg481463/#msg481463

And a good quality photo from Zeitmaschine.....

Kind regards. Graham.

edit.. Spelling mistake.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #406 on: April 06, 2017, 08:06:46 PM »
Dear Nelson.

Your welcome and yes, I had some interesting times....... AND not a single supercap in sight !!  ;D

Maybe Dog One might chip in ?

For dear Mr. Koala.....

http://overunity.com/12736/kapanadze-cousin-dally-free-energy/msg481463/#msg481463

And a good quality photo from Zeitmaschine.....

Kind regards. Graham.

Thanks for posting that clear schematic.

This may help you to understand your results (disconnecting the Base of the TIP122 and still seeing oscillations).

The TIP122, if genuine (there are many Chinese fakes of all kinds of transistors) is a Darlington NPN. I have attached the internal schematic of this transistor taken from the OnSemi data sheet.

And supercaps are absolutely not needed to keep an efficient JT circuit (which this appears to be, according to the schematic and your scopeshots) oscillating (without significant load) for a long time.

ETA: When you disconnected your power supply in that video there was quite a nice spark there. What do you think caused that spark?

Offline citfta

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #407 on: April 06, 2017, 08:26:31 PM »
Here's a quote from a PM from citfa dated November 15 2015:   

"If you insist on attacking me after I only tried to help you then I WILL ask that you be banned from this site".

Here's the kind of help he's referring to:

Citfa;

"Negative current is an imaginary fiction".

As usual Synchro is so far from the truth it is funny.  The PM he posted is from 1 1/2 years ago and has nothing to do with his ridiculous claim there is negative current.  For reference here is the thread that caused me to send that PM.

http://overunity.com/16203/inductive-kickback/

 Anyone who takes the time to read it can clearly see I started it to help him understand about inductive kickback.  When he saw he was wrong then he started using profanity against everyone in that thread.  Flaming others is against forum rules.  However I did not have to follow through on my threat to attempt to get him banned as several more senior members notified admin of his poor behavior.  As a consequence he was NOT banned as he keeps insisting.  He was put on moderated status.  This means his posts had to be approved before they would be posted on the forum.

He then went to Energetic Forum and told a bunch of lies there about several of us.  He is his own worst enemy.  He refuses to learn and when shown he is wrong he resorts to name calling and profanity.  I will not waste anymore time on this subject.  I just felt the need to set the record straight for any newcomers that might read his ridiculous claims.

Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #407 on: April 06, 2017, 08:26:31 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #408 on: April 06, 2017, 08:42:13 PM »
As usual Synchro is so far from the truth it is funny.  The PM he posted is from 1 1/2 years ago and has nothing to do with his ridiculous claim there is negative current.  For reference here is the thread that caused me to send that PM.

http://overunity.com/16203/inductive-kickback/

 Anyone who takes the time to read it can clearly see I started it to help him understand about inductive kickback.  When he saw he was wrong then he started using profanity against everyone in that thread.  Flaming others is against forum rules.  However I did not have to follow through on my threat to attempt to get him banned as several more senior members notified admin of his poor behavior.  As a consequence he was NOT banned as he keeps insisting.  He was put on moderated status.  This means his posts had to be approved before they would be posted on the forum.

He then went to Energetic Forum and told a bunch of lies there about several of us.  He is his own worst enemy.  He refuses to learn and when shown he is wrong he resorts to name calling and profanity.  I will not waste anymore time on this subject.  I just felt the need to set the record straight for any newcomers that might read his ridiculous claims.

Carroll

You lasted for over 400 comments so far.

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #409 on: April 06, 2017, 08:51:26 PM »
I've been playing with 3 bifilar pancake coils, and with some result. But Im not shure how to interpret this result.
I dont know how to convert the time it takes to charge the capacitors, into a expression of power.

here is some data: 4x 6.3uF capacitors, charged to 900Vdc from 0V in 3 seconds. the question rises, how are the capacitors connected...
at one side, they are all connected together (parallel). But on the otherside, they are paired, and connected to diodes. 2 form the negative, and 2 form the positive.

Anyone got the answer?

You simply need to convert to "Joules". The Joule is one "watt second".

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #409 on: April 06, 2017, 08:51:26 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #410 on: April 06, 2017, 09:18:17 PM »
Thanks for posting that clear schematic.

ETA: When you disconnected your power supply in that video there was quite a nice spark there. What do you think caused that spark?

Dear Mr. Koala.

You're welcome.

That PSU has literally been " to Hell and back " used in many environments, mainly damp ones, the Crock clips are rather rusty IMO it was just some Iron oxide burning off.

Cheers Graham.

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #411 on: April 06, 2017, 09:21:36 PM »
I think, Nelson Rocha's circuit would deserve it's own thread - if anything else than because it doesn't contain pancake coil (according to its diagram this coil even isn't bifilar) and it's the only selfrunner in the wild and also author communicating at overunity.com forum in this moment (i.e. of much higher importance than some abstract discussion and frog&mice battles about interpretation of well understood phenomena). For me it looks like Joule Thief circuit with ferroresonance overunity.
when i

Zephir , please don't put words that i did not say . I never say that circuit is a self running . I just say that circuit is interesting, to people that search the OU theme, and could be made easily  because is cheap to be made and could be observed interesting points , and that is one of the circuits that i share in this same forum when i'm working in opensource years ago nothing more .

That is only to show to some that sometimes ask me by my claims and about hi not opensource my work  that in other times if they want validate something they could easily do that, but  years ago .

Hope i being clear about that subject and my position , and i don't need any thread about me or any of my circuit's .
I share in pm even with you , because i don't need to publicity what i do or what i design in this moment , but people are free to try if want .

cheers

Nelson Rocha
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #411 on: April 06, 2017, 09:21:36 PM »
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Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #412 on: April 06, 2017, 11:11:50 PM »
OK - if it's not self-running, which this circuit is supposed to be interesting with?

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #413 on: April 06, 2017, 11:33:38 PM »
OK - if it's not self-running, which this circuit is supposed to be interesting with?

Hi Zephir ,

I already  explain to you in PM what you could observe on that circuit, no is not a self runner , is only one of the circuits , that you could see interesting behaviors, if you don't want replicate them you could see the videos associated to them , Grumage share their own replication , but if you search , you will find other replications by other users even by myself  .
 I said that circuit should be used to study some interesting effects .
Like other circuits i made , i use them to study , and of course you or anyone are free to replicate them and see by yourself , and validate them because when i share them was in opensource , and in that way he still remain in same way .
The good new is that you don't need to spend much money to replicate them , but you are free to decide that .

cheers


Nelson Rocha   

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #413 on: April 06, 2017, 11:33:38 PM »
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Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #414 on: April 06, 2017, 11:44:38 PM »
You simply need to convert to "Joules". The Joule is one "watt second".
yes, the joules are easy to calculate. i guess its all parallel,  so about  10 joules in 3 seconds.

but Im interested in the power that puts the charge in the caps. its not linear,  at first there is a sudden great rise of voltage,  and then when it reaches its maximum voltage,  the voltage rise slows down.
so the current seems large at the start of charging,  when the voltage is still low.

so to say 10 joule in 3 seconds is 3.3 Watts would be wrong.
I wonder what power could be used. if i would put a load on the capacitro,  and the voltage would drop to 12 volts,  howmuch current would it be able to provide.

for me its a though question. also,  because its part of a resonant system, that needs to keep resonating.
 if any one could shed a light.

@ Grumage,  tnx for posting that schematic 

Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #415 on: April 06, 2017, 11:47:12 PM »
Quote
I said that circuit should be used to study some interesting effects.

Which ones, for example? For me everything about electricity is interesting - ("magnets, how they do work?")

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #415 on: April 06, 2017, 11:47:12 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #416 on: April 07, 2017, 12:36:57 AM »
but Im interested in the power that puts the charge in the caps. its not linear,  at first there is a sudden great rise of voltage,  and then when it reaches its maximum voltage,  the voltage rise slows down.
so the current seems large at the start of charging,  when the voltage is still low.

Yes Evostars, the bogeyman is going to speak to you again.  I am going to make good sense, so the question for you is are you going to have enough character to respond to me?  Am I allowed to eat at the same lunch counter as you?

The power going into the capacitor is the product of the voltage times the current.  Both are functions of time.

p(t) = i(t) * v(t).

And of course the energy is the summation of the power over the charging cycle.  We can also say that the energy is the integral of the current times the voltage with respect to time from the start to the end of the cycle.

Let's go back to p(t) = i(t) * v(t).

We are charging a capacitor, and we know that the voltage on a capacitor v = q/C.

And we also know that q(t) is the integral of i(t) with respect to time.  So we can do some substitutions:

p(t) = i(t) * [integral i(t)dt/C]

And there you go.  If you have a DSO you can record the current waveform and the capacitor voltage waveform and have the DSO do the multiplication for you.

Alternatively you can record the current waveform only and then put the file on a USB drive.   Then you can load the current waveform into a spreadsheet and do a multiply-accumulate function and get your answer like that.  This is the more "profound" way to do this because as long as you know the current waveform and the capacitance you have enough information to get your answer.  It's like Spice running through your veins.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #417 on: April 07, 2017, 01:51:25 AM »
@evostars,

Discharging a capacitor is like decanting water from a five gallon jug; Slow starting, followed by a strong gush  at .67, tapering off to a slow flow: Charging exactly the reverse, max charge rate at .33 capacity:
« Last Edit: April 07, 2017, 09:30:27 AM by synchro1 »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #418 on: April 07, 2017, 01:56:46 AM »
No, the charge rate shown in your graph is the slope of the line. The maximum charge rate (steepest slope) is at zero capacity and slows down from there. The maximum discharge rate is at full capacity.

Perhaps you should review your calculus.

Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #419 on: April 07, 2017, 01:59:14 AM »
Milehigh and synchro one,
thank you for your input on the capacitor!
No DCO for me,  but I think i might be able to measure it with a larger capacitance, needing more time to charge. so i can make a graph.

and that picture of the discharge really makes sense.

thanks for the spice

and yes Tinselkoala,  its all about the steepness of the line, but I need some voltage change to get current. So 0.67 seems perfect

 

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