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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 254119 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #855 on: April 15, 2017, 09:41:29 PM »
@Milehigh,

Get off his back. Mags is spotlight brilliant compared to your half dead firefly for brain power.

Preserved for posterity. MH and Mags are conducting a rational discussion, and you are just slinging insults, mistaken usage of terms, and already soundly disproven claims.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #856 on: April 15, 2017, 09:45:48 PM »
@Milehigh,

How the hell can you pretend there's any way you can help evostars with your seven year history compulsive, psychpathic bigotry towards Tesla's serial bifilar coil. You couldn't even solve a basic inductance problem any High School sophomore could handle with little difficulty.


Do you really think MH, or I, or Mags or TinMan or anyone else with the correct knowledge cannot solve a basic induction problem USING THE CORRECT TERMS and QUANTITIES involved? You are truly hilarious. You get another ROFL for that.

If "any High School sophomore" made the kind of howlers you have been making here, she would be sent back at least a grade, or made to review her pre-calculus algebra and analytic geometry after class at least.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #857 on: April 15, 2017, 09:54:25 PM »

Properly identifying and identifying with the problem introduces us to the one and only viable solution to the problem.  The problem manifest through the self induction, the wise knew/know, that the solution to the problem is to be found in a proper understanding of self induction, its relation to relation to capacity, and their combined relation to frequency, not as absolutes but constantly modifying variables.  This line of thinking leads one to begin to consider all frequencies as being the resonant frequency....


The authorities have us focusing on absolutes and not parameter variations.  The excuse is we are too stupid to think dynamically, we should stay in the mindset of children to be  brainwashed and think only about static components and parasitic/proximity associations.....a real waste of time in a world where nothing ever stands still.   We are instructed to view systems which are  fundamentally inductive and capacitive, oscillators in the truest sense of the term, as either or....This flawed logic prohibits us from recognizing the oscillator, and more importantly, we never become aware of true role capacitance plays in relation to and within said oscillator. 


Faraday's name is forever tied to capacity....should have been a hint...but no one caught on....  The coulomb and its relation to current....should have been a hint but no one caught on there either....

Anyone can perform their own experiments and if they understand the basics, they can draw valid conclusions from properly performed experiments. The "Authorities" are not preventing anyone from doing that. But the Real World of reality will only allow correct and consistent conclusions actually to work.

"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." - Richard P. Feynman

And Quantum Electrodynamics (QED), of which our electronics rules, definitions and "laws" form a subset, is the most experimentally and practically tested, precise and consistent theory that Humankind has ever evolved. The "authorities" whoever they are, are not trying to "prevent" anyone from replacing it with a better theory-- they cannot. But any replacement not only has to make predictions that agree with QED, but must be as accurate or more accurate, as precise or more precise, and make experimentally confirmed predictions that are not already covered by QED.

Quote
Faraday's name is forever tied to capacity....should have been a hint...but no one caught on....  The coulomb and its relation to current....should have been a hint but no one caught on there either....

And who but those "Authorities" were responsible for assigning those names to the quantities concerned?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #857 on: April 15, 2017, 09:54:25 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #858 on: April 15, 2017, 09:56:16 PM »


Do you really think MH, or I, or Mags or TinMan or anyone else with the correct knowledge cannot solve a basic induction problem USING THE CORRECT TERMS and QUANTITIES involved? You are truly hilarious. You get another ROFL for that.

If "any High School sophomore" made the kind of howlers you have been making here, she would be sent back at least a grade, or made to review her pre-calculus algebra and analytic geometry after class at least.

@Tinselkoala,

You sleuthed up the "Henrad" and "Farey" Holmes! Nice detective work!

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #859 on: April 15, 2017, 09:58:18 PM »
@Tinselkoala,

You sluthed up the "Henrad" and "Farey" Holmes!

Your brain needs more oxygen. Why don't you go out and play in the street for a while?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #859 on: April 15, 2017, 09:58:18 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #860 on: April 15, 2017, 10:09:39 PM »
Your brain needs more oxygen. Why don't you go out and play in the street for a while?

@Tinselkoala,

Acting like you knew something and then set out to deceive everyone is a lot less flattering then just admitting to your ignorance.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #861 on: April 15, 2017, 10:48:49 PM »
Magluvin, the above is a pure gratuitous BS posting and you damn well know it.  I never said anything about charging a cap to 400 volts.  And then you do some nonsensical rambling in an attempt to "prove" me wrong.

You are falling into your serious character flaw trap like a fly stuck on flypaper yet again.  That is just a pure BS posting where in your mind you are going to try to pick apart every posting I make and find a flaw in it.  Well, you just exposed your serious character flaw with a nonsensical BS posting.

Get your act together right now and act like a decent self-respecting human being instead of some creep that is going to make posting after posting with some ridiculous negative spin about me like some psycho stalker.

Do you remember teaming up with Synchro1 for about one full year and harassing me and insulting me day in and day out without end?  Your behaviour was the WORST behaviour on a forum that I have ever seen from anyone in my life.  And you aren't going to start again with examples like that completely nonsensical posting shown above.

Get your act together.  You are not going to stalk me on this thread.

MileHigh

Well someone needs to keep an eye out for your 'mistakes'(your words) as you certainly put them out there like they are golden. Here is the issue. You make lots of these kind of mistakes. And you do admit to most of them i have to say. But sometimes it just quirks me as you trying to be the teacher in the group but if these mistakes are not corrected then it is you that are wasting peoples time with bad info. You should check double check and recheck before posting or some will take notice of the error and point it out. Ats it.

I have to read back on the 400v thing as I went by Gyulas post to you for that info assuming it was correct, usually Gyula is on point. Should have checked and rechecked first myself. ;) Sorry if I was wrong.  See What I was doing there? I was kickin my ass. ;D

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #861 on: April 15, 2017, 10:48:49 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #862 on: April 15, 2017, 10:51:07 PM »

Properly identifying and identifying with the problem introduces us to the one and only viable solution to the problem.  The problem manifest through the self induction, the wise knew/know, that the solution to the problem is to be found in a proper understanding of self induction, its relation to relation to capacity, and their combined relation to frequency, not as absolutes but constantly modifying variables.  This line of thinking leads one to begin to consider all frequencies as being the resonant frequency....


The authorities have us focusing on absolutes and not parameter variations.  The excuse is we are too stupid to think dynamically, we should stay in the mindset of children to be  brainwashed and think only about static components and parasitic/proximity associations.....a real waste of time in a world where nothing ever stands still.   We are instructed to view systems which are  fundamentally inductive and capacitive, oscillators in the truest sense of the term, as either or....This flawed logic prohibits us from recognizing the oscillator, and more importantly, we never become aware of true role capacitance plays in relation to and within said oscillator. 


Faraday's name is forever tied to capacity....should have been a hint...but no one caught on....  The coulomb and its relation to current....should have been a hint but no one caught on there either....

Thanks.  Ill let it sink in a bit see if I can figure it out.

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #863 on: April 15, 2017, 11:04:39 PM »
Ok, here is a couple pics. First is the speaker wire separated into individual wires. 50 ft ea.

The next pic is making the use of a spinning shop stool to turn table the windings on the disk. The disk is 19in dia and didnt expect the coil to be that small in dia, but didnt want to get to the end of the wind and poss go off the edge. Big headroom to surly avoid a redo. In the second pic you can see I made 4 black lines of contact cement and tape strips every so many turns to hod the wire to the board then just did the larger tape strips to further hold it down. I may want to reuse this wire to test a cylinder coil later and didnt want to gook up the wire with glue. its tight and firm, ooo baby, and the insulation is more rubbery than most wires are and it whant to kinda stick to the other turns. Good for these tests.

The roll out of the package was 2.75in ID and 8.5 OD and the bifi is 1.5ID and 11in OD

7nf between individual wires.
.5mh series connection
.25ohm series connection with meter zero out to eliminate test lead resistance
59 total turns of 14 awg wire
100ft total wire including pigtails

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #863 on: April 15, 2017, 11:04:39 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #864 on: April 15, 2017, 11:29:56 PM »
Just did a regular LC sim of the component values i measured and it says about 85khz.  ;D So to me, that capacitance is not insignificant an any way shape or form. Some dc to dc supllies can run at that freq and we are not in the mhz or even quadra digigihz beyond reality as some here might say it could be due to the insignificant capacitance of a bifi. ;) So we have a regular LC basline to go by without having to build it to compare.

The input was 20v in till peak current and disconnected then pic shot. 


Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #865 on: April 15, 2017, 11:40:20 PM »
lol. 20v in till max current through a 100ohm resistance, and she sings at 50v. Nice.

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #865 on: April 15, 2017, 11:40:20 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #866 on: April 15, 2017, 11:55:07 PM »
Exactly!

oooo thats a nice pic. ;D Just caught that post. Can get lost in here quick. Quite a few pages since early this morning. We had an old welding machine at work and it was pretty beat with a big knob on the front that physically turned a large magnetic shunt in the open area of the really large square core to adjust the power out. The core was heavily rusted especially at the bottom. But what interested me most was the windings. 2 differnt size of wide strap copper conductors and a third winding of some at least 6ga solid for the pri. But that thing you show there is some serious equipment. Thanks

Mags

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #867 on: April 16, 2017, 12:20:41 AM »
Well someone needs to keep an eye out for your 'mistakes'(your words) as you certainly put them out there like they are golden. Here is the issue. You make lots of these kind of mistakes. And you do admit to most of them i have to say. But sometimes it just quirks me as you trying to be the teacher in the group but if these mistakes are not corrected then it is you that are wasting peoples time with bad info. You should check double check and recheck before posting or some will take notice of the error and point it out. Ats it.

I have to read back on the 400v thing as I went by Gyulas post to you for that info assuming it was correct, usually Gyula is on point. Should have checked and rechecked first myself. ;) Sorry if I was wrong.  See What I was doing there? I was kickin my ass. ;D

Mags

There are tons and tons and tons of mistakes made on this forum and sometimes some of them are completely and utterly idiotic.  And almost all the time nobody says a single damn thing.  I don't see you going after them and many times you are fully aware of them.  So don't give me your nonsense and get my message loud and clear.  You're are trying to preen and wank and say, "Look boys, I'm going to go after this guy and it's going to be sport."  And I don't make "lots of mistakes."  Get out of your BS spin zone.

Nobody wants your show, conduct yourself like a proper person.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #868 on: April 16, 2017, 12:23:42 AM »
The model is a self-resonating bifilar coil with a ground reference on one terminal and the other
terminal swinging back and forth between +200 and -200 volts.

Well, then please next time define your examples more precisely on the particulars.

Unfortunately, I have to quote another text from you:
You are missing the key point here.  Tesla states in the patent that at the right AC excitation frequency
the bifilar coil (or any coil) will appear as a pure resistance.  This is where the coil is modeled as
a series LC circuit.  And we know that when you excite a series LC circuit with a pure sine wave that
the series LC circuit looks like the wire resistance only because at the right AC excitation frequency
the reactance of the inductance and the capacitance cancel each other out.

So if you pulse a bifilar coil, this is not the same as pure sine wave excitation at the resonant frequency,
and the "wire resistance only" statement does not apply.


Of course I agree with the first paragraph but not with the second I put in bold. Please explain why the
"wire resistance only" statement does not apply when we are pulsing a bifilar coil?

Gyula

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #869 on: April 16, 2017, 12:33:18 AM »
Well, then please next time define your examples more precisely on the particulars.

Unfortunately, I have to quote another text from you:
Of course I agree with the first paragraph but not with the second I put in bold. Please explain why the
"wire resistance only" statement does not apply when we are pulsing a bifilar coil?

Gyula

The frame of reference for the example is Conrad's set of clips.  All of the particulars are there.  I don't think they is any ambiguity in "peak to peak."

You second question is strange, what's up with you?  When you pulse a bifilar coil what happens?  The response of the coil to a voltage pulse comes into play with an L/R time constant and all of that stuff that has been discussed in depth many times.

 

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