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### Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 539874 times)

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #360 on: April 05, 2017, 02:50:47 PM »
Thanks Dave, very really good video . Is not like i ear sometimes some people say that learn in youtube only make persons dumb "DumbTube" .

Thanks

Nelson Rocha

I think Carroll was just complaining about the fact that many people interested in free energy look towards the wrong people on YouTube.

In fact, there are thousands of legitimate clips about electronics from hundreds of presenters.

Here is a sample:

A lot of these clips require that you have an understanding of basic calculus:  The derivative of sine is cosine, the integral of cosine is negative sine.  This makes many people run away from the legitimate information.

You have probably read so many discussions about transformers.  One of the clips I linked to goes over the model for a transformer and how it works with inductive and capacitive loads, see the attached image.

MileHigh

#### NRamaswami

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 490
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #361 on: April 05, 2017, 02:58:13 PM »
So you post your theories based on youtube videos done by others..And your advice is to google for the circuits that can produce High voltage and High Frequency AC and again your theories are based on this and not on direct personal handson experimental knowledge..And you think you can put advice. Amazing.

In India we have a story of a monk who was requested to advice a young boy addicted to Sugar and sweets. The Monk refused to advice and gave the advice only after six months to the boy who instantly followed. The monk explained that to give this advice he had to first control himself and avoid taking sweets for only then it will have an impact. hmm..times are far far different now.

The theory was pretty much explained.  There are hundreds of YouTube clips that show LEDs and neons being lit from "one wire."  There are many circuits that generate high-frequency high-voltage AC.  You can Google search and YouTube search on this.

#### ramset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 8073
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #362 on: April 05, 2017, 03:07:12 PM »
NRamaswami

maybe what you seek is here
experiments with scalar waves resonance and Pancake coils
http://vixra.org/pdf/1607.0130v1.pdf   [from post #372 today]

if our discussions are kept "proper" we could probably invite guests here [above link]
or even do experiments to explore these claims ?

respectfully
Chet k

Ps
RE Milehigh
he spent plenty of time on the bench ,once you know how to walk or run
it really doesn't need more "study" but it does qualify you to help others who are just learning .

just one mans opinion

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #363 on: April 05, 2017, 05:01:58 PM »
Well ,
I received this from Gary Vesperman ,an Old Timer in the FE world ,Apparently there is a "TF"conference in Moscow
and Peng Gao's work and others are being discussed .
Snip
Peng Gao's torsion field paper

paper is in the following link:
http://vixra.org/pdf/1607.0130v1.pdf

Abstract—Scalar wave was found and used at first by Nikola
Tesla in his wireless energy transmission experiment. Prof.K.Meyl
extended the Maxwell equation and found the lost scalar wave
part. The scalar wave theory proposed by Prof.K.Meyl indicates
that the torsion field is the nature of scalar wave. This work
attempts to detect the torsion field nature of scalar wave generated
by the dual Tesla coil system, using the torsion balance consisting
of a wooden frame. The result is positive and two kinds of torsion
field including left-handed and right-handed are detected in dual
Tesla coil system.

snip
II. DESCRIPTION OF DEVICES AND METHODOLOGY
In this work, the Phase-Conjugate-Resonator consists of two
standard pancake Tesla coils
, two wooden frames in different
size, and some auxiliary objects were used. In this section,
it will be discussed in three parts: the Phase-Conjugate-
Resonator, the methodology and the full configuration of hardware.
-----------------------------------------

Gary is a great fellow and a champion of the hazards of wireless Wifi in the western united states [many worldwide studies showing this newer stronger Wifi and its dangers to Children and others.

respectfully
Chet K

Chet, there are many things wrong with the "experiments" described in that paper.  I put "experiments" in quotes because, as is typical, they are not actually experiments but rather are demonstrations of an effect. No proper control experiments were performed and so, the demonstrations of the noted effects are not able to assign causality. That is, the rotations observed in the demonstrations cannot be definitely assigned to "torsion fields". In fact I have a strong suspicion that the observed rotations are actually caused by the very same phenomenon that I demonstrate in my "low hanging fruit" videos.

Vixra is a site for self-publishing non-peer-reviewed papers that do not even rise to the standard of the Arxiv pre-publication website.

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #364 on: April 05, 2017, 05:12:49 PM »
So you post your theories based on youtube videos done by others..And your advice is to google for the circuits that can produce High voltage and High Frequency AC and again your theories are based on this and not on direct personal handson experimental knowledge..And you think you can put advice. Amazing.

In India we have a story of a monk who was requested to advice a young boy addicted to Sugar and sweets. The Monk refused to advice and gave the advice only after six months to the boy who instantly followed. The monk explained that to give this advice he had to first control himself and avoid taking sweets for only then it will have an impact. hmm..times are far far different now.

In India there are many stories about many different things. There are god-men who can manifest vibhuti from their fingertips and make cheap watches and rings appear out of nowhere. There are fakirs who can sit for hours three feet in the air, just leaning on a simple staff. There are monks with rotten teeth and diabetes. Can you arrange an interview with your formerly sweets-addicted monk for us?

Mile High is a "monk" who long ago dealt with his "sweets" and so is in a good position to give theoretical advice. He has already explained to you how HF HV circuits can light up LEDs and other bulbs with "one wire" by taking advantage of the inevitable capacitive coupling to ground. He does not need to show you _his_ circuits that perform this way... it should be sufficient for you to see _my_ circuits that do these things, or the circuits of countless others demonstrated on YouTube. Or even your own circuits.

I don't have to perform the experiment myself to understand that if I jump off a ten story building flapping my arms and tweeting like a bird, the results will not be favourable. An examination of relevant theory and the "experiments" and experiences of others are sufficient. Although I think some people here would like to see me perform that experiment for myself!

#### nelsonrochaa

• Hero Member
• Posts: 653
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #365 on: April 05, 2017, 05:25:54 PM »
I think Carroll was just complaining about the fact that many people interested in free energy look towards the wrong people on YouTube.

In fact, there are thousands of legitimate clips about electronics from hundreds of presenters.

Here is a sample:

A lot of these clips require that you have an understanding of basic calculus:  The derivative of sine is cosine, the integral of cosine is negative sine.  This makes many people run away from the legitimate information.

You have probably read so many discussions about transformers.  One of the clips I linked to goes over the model for a transformer and how it works with inductive and capacitive loads, see the attached image.

MileHigh

MileHigh ,

I have not talked about, in any particular person,
I just keep in my memory the "DumbTube" word, because I found grace, to illustrate the idea that we are not able to learn in by youtube .

I also did not say that everything we see on youtube is valid information, but the problem in my perspective, is that we can not include everything in the same "bag" because there are capable and serious people who share very valid information .
You yourself recurrently use examples taken from youtube, and I'm sorry if I'm being unfair at what I'm going to say, but  I've never seen anything practical done by you like a simple circuit to be evaluated from others persons .
Maybe my inattention, and if so, my apologies.

Myself already share some years ago some diagrams of some of my circuits , that simple not evaluated by the most people only because considerations like you do sometimes; the doubting minority, who doubted and gave the opportunity to verify for themselves in a practical meaning , found something different than would be expected .

Did i try impose something to that people ? Not . I just give a chance to people knows or not other perspective  , my perspective , and is lawful, that those who do not agree do not evaluate them , i respect this , but without aggression or impose anything .

The wisdom, is of the one who knows how to listen and filter the good content of the less good, and comprises both sides to arrive at a final and profitable conclusion. Otherwise persons like Nikola Tesla , or even Prof Eric Laithwaite will not have so much critical in their work .

What story can tell us about the novel persons and researchers that disagree in their own time, of already implemented ideas in general by scientific community ? Yes we know what happen to that poor guys ... Even with such high value information that they left in their legacy.
Sometimes we need several years to "real and carved in stone laws" be replaced by new reformulations and improved of that same laws, and that already happen more than one time , and will continue for sure happen.
This forum being a space for discussion about alternative research,it should be an example not of imposition but of healthy debate, something that hardly happens, because systematically, when some matter is discussed outside the normal and agreed-upon lines, pressure is immediately felt for total discrediting and seen as unfounded information.

I just ear most of times : Probe your claims ! No one need to probe nothing to no one , indeed discuss in a health ambient the bad and good points without , showing altruism egocentric and lack of consideration people's work and effort, even if it is not valid in the eyes of others.
That call's RESPECT.

Anyone could search youtube channels like NPTEL, STANFORD, MIT OCW, CALTECH and much others, to learn "carved in stone information" , but the opposite will not happen, because in this channels you wont find any single information about any "alternative" thoughts or ideas that we find in this forum shared by people , otherwise what is the meaning to that forum call Overunity ?
In my perspective, this forum should  be to  discuss alternative ideas, even some of this ideas could not feet to what some  people consider right or not .

That is my perspective , and it will be perfect normal that you or even all the world disagree, and even that i will maintain my ideas .
Not all people are so incompetent in this forum, even though they have the amateur label that they refuse to learn with "high degree teachers" .

This is  questioning, experimenting, observing, and digesting information, and then comparing with current laws to understand what is different, or wrong , not only because i or you say that others need to believe in a "blind" mode and make that like a irrefutable opinion .

Best luck to you

Nelson Rocha

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #366 on: April 05, 2017, 05:27:45 PM »
And as far as Laithwaite and gyroscopes are concerned.... he himself acknowledged, before he died, that he was simply wrong about many of his claims made in that Christmas lecture. You can even see, by careful observation in that video, some of his errors. I have done considerable experimentation with forced precession of gyroscopes myself, as have other real scientists. Unfortunately there is no real weight loss available from forced precession, but there are some very interesting effects that can be seen and that will definitely fool the hopeful into believing all kinds of things that aren't really true. Yes, the closest thing to an actual antigravity experience I have seen was in one of my own forced-precession experimental devices. But no, the device as a whole did not "lose weight" vertically or produce reactionless thrust horizontally, and neither did the combination of Laithwaite+gyroscope wheel in his own demonstrations. In his demos the effort to lift the spinning wheel under forced precession is transferred from his arms only, to the rest of his body mainly including his legs.

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #367 on: April 05, 2017, 05:51:07 PM »
By the way... in case anyone actually cares.... my "coil current direction" demonstrations posted pages ago also work just the same way when "Tesla Bifilar Pancake" coils are used.

I finally found 2 of my own TBFP coils buried under the detritus in my lab storage spaces to test them in the demonstration. Because they use much less wire and have no inductance-increasing cores they have smaller inductances (under 1 mH, about 4 ohms) and less DC resistance than the small relay coil (about 40 mH, about 45 ohms) I used for the YT videos, hence they store less energy in their magnetic field, which means the LED flash brightness and duration is less when the power is disconnected, but the results from the test are qualitatively exactly the same. The current continues to flow _in the same direction_  as when power is on, and makes the LED flash just as when using the relay coil.

Of course "some of us" will not be surprised by this result. Others will apparently ignore it totally since it conflicts with their mis-pre-conceptions.

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #368 on: April 05, 2017, 05:59:19 PM »
Nelson, you said
Quote
This forum being a space for discussion about alternative research,it should be an example not of imposition but of healthy debate, something that hardly happens, because systematically, when some matter is discussed outside the normal and agreed-upon lines, pressure is immediately felt for total discrediting and seen as unfounded information.

This works both ways, as we have seen lately. When someone presents "information" or an "opinion" or a wild off-the-wall claim that is unsupported by experimental evidence and someone else comes in with a factual correction, checkable outside references and experiments of their own to demonstrate that the unsupported "information" or "opinion" is flat-out wrong.... you see all kinds of resistance to that, name-calling, ignoring, and even calls for "banning" made by persons who have never deigned to present a single experiment of their own. What part of that attitude represents healthy debate?

Where, for example, is the "healthy debate" about my demonstrations that coil current does not reverse when power is interrupted? Where are the retractions or refutations from those who _still_ claim that it does, in spite of all evidence, theoretical references and actual demonstrations that it does not reverse?

#### synchro1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4720
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #369 on: April 05, 2017, 06:09:22 PM »
Nelson, you said
This works both ways, as we have seen lately. When someone presents "information" or an "opinion" or a wild off-the-wall claim that is unsupported by experimental evidence and someone else comes in with a factual correction, checkable outside references and experiments of their own to demonstrate that the unsupported "information" or "opinion" is flat-out wrong.... you see all kinds of resistance to that, name-calling, ignoring, and even calls for "banning" made by persons who have never deigned to present a single experiment of their own. What part of that attitude represents healthy debate?

Where, for example, is the "healthy debate" about my demonstrations that coil current does not reverse when power is interrupted? Where are the retractions or refutations from those who _still_ claim that it does, in spite of all evidence, theoretical references and actual demonstrations that it does not reverse?

@Tinselkoala,

The topic of this thread is: "The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency". The direction of current when power is interupted is off topic; However, since you forced this other issue, maybe you can tell us which direction current travels in the "Ruhmkopff Coil Secondary Winding", when power is interupted in the primary?

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #370 on: April 05, 2017, 06:16:01 PM »
NRamaswami said
Quote
You seem to be amazingly well funded ...

Hah! You get a ROFL for that one! Actually exactly the opposite is true. Except for a couple of projects years ago, I have been amazingly NOT funded at all.

Which is why I cannot afford to buy more breadboards or special wire or a better video camera or even a few transistors here and there. My days of gainful employment or outside funding are apparently long gone. For example many of my coil projects use #27 magnet wire from a 20-pound spool that I bought from a surplus store in 2002 and which is just about empty by now. I have received a few very nice gifts of equipment over the years, like the Rigol scope that my friends crowd-funded for me several years ago, and a Fluke 87-III DMM that the late MarkE sent me, along with a few other tools, but my miniature machine shop is still "missing in action" out of my reach.

I think many people are probably hoping that I'll quit when the wire finally runs out. And maybe I will.

#### nelsonrochaa

• Hero Member
• Posts: 653
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #371 on: April 05, 2017, 06:18:45 PM »
Nelson, you said
This works both ways, as we have seen lately. When someone presents "information" or an "opinion" or a wild off-the-wall claim that is unsupported by experimental evidence and someone else comes in with a factual correction, checkable outside references and experiments of their own to demonstrate that the unsupported "information" or "opinion" is flat-out wrong.... you see all kinds of resistance to that, name-calling, ignoring, and even calls for "banning" made by persons who have never deigned to present a single experiment of their own. What part of that attitude represents healthy debate?

Where, for example, is the "healthy debate" about my demonstrations that coil current does not reverse when power is interrupted? Where are the retractions or refutations from those who _still_ claim that it does, in spite of all evidence, theoretical references and actual demonstrations that it does not reverse?

Hi TK ,

You or no one can judge everyone in same manner and put all i same "bag" , i either not make that about you and your work, even i don't like your caustic way of talk most of the times to persons  , but you are a different "species" because yours answers are supported by your efforts in practical mean , show practical tests, ind other hand , some of tests that you show could not be the perfect example because your designs obey to your own data , and if you don't know others details data, some of your practical tests could have very different results from other experimenters .  I'm not referring at any particular test , just to Beef up .

The problem is that topic is already die much time ago , and now only it become in a "aggression" arena of talk and a disputed off egos, nothing more .
I'm not defending anyone, unlike you did  , I think people are adults as much as necessary, to wield their arguments for themselves.

All the best to you .

Nelson Rocha

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #372 on: April 05, 2017, 06:21:56 PM »
@Tinselkoala,

The topic of this thread is: "The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency". The direction of current when power is interupted is off topic; However, since you forced this other issue, maybe you can tell us which direction current travels in the "Ruhmkopff Coil Secondary Winding", when power is interupted in the primary?

No, the issue was "forced" by people who claimed otherwise and refused to examine the evidence presented when making their demonstrably false claims. I did not bring up the issue but when I encounter... shall we say... BS, I will often jump in with actual facts and experiments or demonstrations of my own to correct the errors that other people make and assert.

And I'm still waiting for some evidence from you that scrapyard magnets are wound using the Tesla Bifilar winding.

The issue of what happens in a _secondary_ coil when the _primary_ is pulsed is completely answered by Faraday's law of induction. Of course it takes some education in the Calculus to understand it. Feel free to provide some demonstrations of your own to make your point. If you can, that is.

#### synchro1

• Hero Member
• Posts: 4720
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #373 on: April 05, 2017, 10:02:36 PM »
No, the issue was "forced" by people who claimed otherwise and refused to examine the evidence presented when making their demonstrably false claims. I did not bring up the issue but when I encounter... shall we say... BS, I will often jump in with actual facts and experiments or demonstrations of my own to correct the errors that other people make and assert.

And I'm still waiting for some evidence from you that scrapyard magnets are wound using the Tesla Bifilar winding.

The issue of what happens in a _secondary_ coil when the _primary_ is pulsed is completely answered by Faraday's law of induction. Of course it takes some education in the Calculus to understand it. Feel free to provide some demonstrations of your own to make your point. If you can, that is.

@Tinselkola,

The Ruhmkopff secondary generates A.C. current as everyone knows. The issue is the definition of "Negative Current". Your LED is a D.C. bulb therefore it flickers because it can only use one half of the current. We're dealing with semantics. I explained eighteen months ago to Woopyjump that the magnetic field collapse "Reversed the Current" and Citfa crawled all over me and got me "Eighty Sixed" for a year and a half. My question to you is; Is Positive current the reverse of negative current? So what if the current chooses the same pathway.

Conradelectro asked me how a coil could store a charge when the wire ends are not connected to anything. One might ask the same question of a capacitor after the power source's disconnected!

Shocking both the single wire coil and the bifilar results in different stored charges as Tesla explains. The bifilar resonance causes the coil to hold on to it's charge longer. Shocking the bifilar on a ferrite core actually causes the charge to increase spontaneously untill the ferrite core transmutes into a permanent magnet. Pulsing a bifilar over a pile of scrap magnetizes the scrap and the scrap attracts itself to the Iron plate under the coil.

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #374 on: April 06, 2017, 01:03:06 AM »
So, you evidently didn't watch my second coil current direction video. Or perhaps you simply didn't understand it, since it does not fit in with your mis-pre-conceptions. So I'll post the link again:

You were wrong before and you are still wrong now.

You are the champion at misrepresenting my work and the work of others, so it comes as no surprise that you misrepresent the work of Tesla, and even misrepresent the construction and use of scrapyard magnets.