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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 370110 times)

Offline Searcher1o1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #300 on: April 01, 2017, 04:36:00 AM »
Quote
       own team and led by Poynt99 and the late MarkE   
TK what happened to Mark

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #301 on: April 01, 2017, 05:36:20 AM »
TK what happened to Mark

Sadly, he died, suddenly and unexpectedly. No, I don't know just how, perhaps heart attack. Just days after his last post here.
He was a good friend and one of the top 5 EEs in his field in the world. We were very lucky to have him here on this forum. RIP.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #302 on: April 01, 2017, 05:41:18 AM »
TK:

This is an off-topic but techie clip that I think is going to blow your mind!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_S9YsD9Y0c

MileHigh

Heh... yes, Dave is a hoot all right. I watch his videos regularly and am a member of the forum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #302 on: April 01, 2017, 05:41:18 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #303 on: April 01, 2017, 09:12:58 AM »
Carrol
RE The request to Zephir

just an artifact or anomaly ,doesn't have to be OU at all. [would be nice tho...

thx
Chet


Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #304 on: April 01, 2017, 10:33:11 AM »
Quote
what does distributed impedance mean
See distributed element model, simulation illustrates, that its behavior cannot be replaced with simple discrete circuit.
Quote
HF circuit to be
High Frequency circuit, of course. Metamaterial circuits enable the propagation of waves faster than EM wave inside them and/or against their source - and this is the point, in which the things become interesting for overunity, as they violate the causality of common electromagnetic circuits. These things are commonly known in scientific circles, but until you don't know about them, then you're in position of tribesmen, who are constructing airplanes and jeeps out of palm fronds and bamboo, because they believe, they will bring them cargo and food.
Quote
And you have never answered the question asked by some of us about your claim there are no such thing as electrons.
This was just an counterplea of dumb TinselKoala argumentation, who has said, that overunity doesn't exist, because he never observed it during his experiments. So I did say, with the same logic the electrons also don't exist, because I also never observed them during my experiments.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #304 on: April 01, 2017, 10:33:11 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #305 on: April 01, 2017, 01:05:52 PM »
See distributed element model, simulation illustrates, that its behavior cannot be replaced with simple discrete circuit.High Frequency circuit, of course. Metamaterial circuits enable the propagation of waves faster than EM wave inside them and/or against their source - and this is the point, in which the things become interesting for overunity, as they violate the causality of common electromagnetic circuits. These things are commonly known in scientific circles, but until you don't know about them, then you're in position of tribesmen, who are constructing airplanes and jeeps out of palm fronds and bamboo, because they believe, they will bring them cargo and food.

Eventually people are going to get bored with your fantasy talk.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #306 on: April 01, 2017, 01:11:18 PM »

When dealing with a subject of such import, why would any self respecting researcher limit him/herself to the limited perspective of the learned.....  Alternative Big Thinkers.....  same question, however, replace the flywheel with a gyroscope.  The learned in their infinite wisdom direct our building apparatus in which the true forces are literally grounded...  The man, in his heyday, recognized this and changed gears, deciding to design, construct and operate linear actuators which produced and transmitted the same forces in a completely different and more effective and useful manner.  Those forces which we put to use are but a reflection of those which are for lack of a better way of putting it, "transmitted into the ground".......

Folk...police yourselves....do your homework before you bring your ideas to the attention of those who will shit on your dreams.

More pie-in-the-sky talk.  My question goes directly to the issue of the understanding of a self-resonating coil and how it works and you throw pies at the sky.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #306 on: April 01, 2017, 01:11:18 PM »
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Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #307 on: April 01, 2017, 01:25:07 PM »
Is the capacitance and the inductance of the Bifilar pancake coil, parallel or series?

A LC circuit with capacitors and inductors, can be made in parallel or series. This has influence on the impedance at its resonant frequency.
 
But the bifilar pancake coil is a capacitor and inductor, at the same time, in the same space. So it is ONE. it cant be series, and it cant be parallel.

With a capacitor inductor L/C circuit, the dielectric field is stored in a different place (the capacitor), than where the magnetic field (the inductor) is stored.
With the fields divided, we can make them series or parallel, because they are separated in space.

But in a bifilar coil, the fields are generated from within the same space. the dielectric, resides inside the magnetic field, as both are produced from the same bifilar windings.
Therefor, it is ONE.

This resembles a magnet, which has a magnetic field, with inside it the dielectric field (bloch wall).

Offline web000x

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #308 on: April 01, 2017, 02:34:38 PM »
Is the capacitance and the inductance of the Bifilar pancake coil, parallel or series?

A LC circuit with capacitors and inductors, can be made in parallel or series. This has influence on the impedance at its resonant frequency.
 
But the bifilar pancake coil is a capacitor and inductor, at the same time, in the same space. So it is ONE. it cant be series, and it cant be parallel.

With a capacitor inductor L/C circuit, the dielectric field is stored in a different place (the capacitor), than where the magnetic field (the inductor) is stored.
With the fields divided, we can make them series or parallel, because they are separated in space.

But in a bifilar coil, the fields are generated from within the same space. the dielectric, resides inside the magnetic field, as both are produced from the same bifilar windings.
Therefor, it is ONE.

This resembles a magnet, which has a magnetic field, with inside it the dielectric field (bloch wall).


I think that in the coil you have distributed impedances that allow for a complex form of propagation.  Look up the stuff that Eric Dollard has explained about TEM vs LMD probagation, LC vs MK.  The dielectric and magnetic components haven't turned into one.  They have just been reduced to existing within the coil structure so that they 'appear' to be one to the observer.  His Theory of Wireless Power book has some good diagrams highlighting this complete propagation, pg35 - Fig 1.


Dave

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #308 on: April 01, 2017, 02:34:38 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #309 on: April 01, 2017, 02:42:23 PM »
This was just an counterplea of dumb TinselKoala argumentation, who has said, that overunity doesn't exist, because he never observed it during his experiments. So I did say, with the same logic the electrons also don't exist, because I also never observed them during my experiments.

Now you have descended past folly and comedy and into outright mendacity and utter ignorance. And you admit to using straw-man arguments once again! Do you have no integrity at all? It must be very painful to be you, so insecure in your faulty world-view that you cannot even face your own errors and admit them like a person with self-respect and honesty.

As you well know, there is _plenty_ of evidence that electrons do exist and people have been engineering with them for decades and even centuries. Whether or not YOU have "observed them during your experiments" has nothing to do with the FACT that electrons have been proven to exist and are used in all kinds of devices every day.  This is very different from the case of "overunity".

Besides, I doubt if you have ever actually performed "experiments" of your own at all.... because you have never presented any evidence that you have, and you evidently do not even know how to interpret real experiments and demonstrations performed by others.


Which direction does current flow when the power is removed from a coil? Same direction, or reversed direction? Face the facts and admit your errors, or present evidence OF YOUR OWN to refute the demonstrated facts. Or continue to dodge the question and weasel around your original claim, demonstrating yet again your profound lack of integrity.

Offline Zephir

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #310 on: April 01, 2017, 02:55:17 PM »
Quote
Which direction does current flow when the power is removed from a coil? Same direction, or reversed direction?
The original question was, which current direction generates the collapsing magnetic field of coil. This direction is the opposite to the current, which created this magnetic field.
Quote
And you admit to using straw-man arguments once again!
The question is, who is actual comedian here. The arguing, that something is impossible, because you did try it without success is called an anectodal fallacy. Such a dumbness cannot be beaten by any other fallacy.
Quote
there is _plenty_ of evidence that electrons do exist
There is plenty of evidence for electricity - but the proof that electrons exist is not so trivial. This is just a matter of consistency of thinking. I'm pretty sure, nobody of you did ever observe the electron in the same way like the overunity.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #310 on: April 01, 2017, 02:55:17 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #311 on: April 01, 2017, 03:15:43 PM »
ok...so this time around, I put forth the effort and wrote your opinion on the paper before using it....waste not want not.......me not being one for getting into the dirty details....

Starting to get the point though.....the only opinion which matters is...... (not) yours.....

Sorry for the cynical comment.  What I should have said is that I can't make much sense of what you are saying.   Like, okay, a gyroscope is a flywheel.  But grounded forces, linear actuators, transmitted into the ground, etc, I really don't know where you are going with that and I can't relate it to the subject matter.

Also, please don't play straw man.  And you would look better if you would refrain from your usual dismissive attitude when you feel the conversation is done. The old, "I've got better things to do with my time" bit is just a pretentious rude diss and it is not needed.

Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #312 on: April 01, 2017, 03:42:33 PM »
Is the capacitance and the inductance of the Bifilar pancake coil, parallel or series?

A LC circuit with capacitors and inductors, can be made in parallel or series. This has influence on the impedance at its resonant frequency.
 
But the bifilar pancake coil is a capacitor and inductor, at the same time, in the same space. So it is ONE. it cant be series, and it cant be parallel.

With a capacitor inductor L/C circuit, the dielectric field is stored in a different place (the capacitor), than where the magnetic field (the inductor) is stored.
With the fields divided, we can make them series or parallel, because they are separated in space.

But in a bifilar coil, the fields are generated from within the same space. the dielectric, resides inside the magnetic field, as both are produced from the same bifilar windings.
Therefor, it is ONE.

This resembles a magnet, which has a magnetic field, with inside it the dielectric field (bloch wall).

Okay, let me give you some perspective here.  Often, there is a frame of reference for a discussion.  I will give you a classic example.  If you don't live in the Arctic as an Inuit, then the way you relate to snow and describe snow during the wintertime time is much different than that of an Inuit.  We might say, fluffy snow, sticky snow, and slush.  But the Inuit have about 20 words to describe 20 distinct variations for snow in their Arctic environment.

The frame of reference here is that the self-resonating coil is a device with two terminals and you can observe the voltage across the two terminals and the current flow through the device.  Since you are talking about the current through the coil, the coil in this case is not stand-alone, it is in a circuit of some kind.   The simplified circuit is [AC voltage source] -> [pancake coil] -> [Ground].

So from that frame of reference the question is what does the self-resonating coil look like at resonance?  The answer cannot be "is is ONE" because that doesn't make sense.  The presumption is that it will look like either a series LC circuit with very low impedance at resonance or as a parallel LC circuit with near-infinite impedance at resonance.  The suggested test procedure was outlined for you.

The fact that the inductive components and fields and the dielectric (capacitive) components and fields coexist in the same 3D space is of no consequence.  In addition, when the magnetic field changes it produces an electric field and when the electric field changes it produces a magnetic field.  So the concept of magnetic and electric fields occupying the same space is nothing new.

This clip is a mixture of simple concepts related to this and hard core math and it may be of interest to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DH7ufrkeHM

MileHigh

Offline evostars

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #313 on: April 01, 2017, 04:54:36 PM »

I think that in the coil you have distributed impedances that allow for a complex form of propagation.  Look up the stuff that Eric Dollard has explained about TEM vs LMD probagation, LC vs MK.  The dielectric and magnetic components haven't turned into one.  They have just been reduced to existing within the coil structure so that they 'appear' to be one to the observer.  His Theory of Wireless Power book has some good diagrams highlighting this complete propagation, pg35 - Fig 1.


Dave
Thanks Dave. Yes I know the book, and his other great works. (works great with Ken wheelers/theoria apophasis views)

It seems the spiralling spacial vortex magnetic field(above and below the windings), becomes one(in phase) with the spiraling dielectric field in between the windings. Becoming the same field, that some call the magneto dielectric.

All fields are ether fields, its the field form that defines its characteristics. A spacial vortex field, is magnetic (creating suction/pressure). A coherent linear field (in a capacitor) is dielectric (creating tension). 

2D drawings dont show the whole complexity of the field flows. We really have to visualise them in 3D. thats what i like about the ferrocell and VR

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #314 on: April 01, 2017, 06:13:47 PM »

You aren't sorry....  You cannot make sense of what I am saying....your problem, not mine.  Did I say a gyroscope is a flywheel? NO, you did!  I know what a gyroscope is, and the role a flywheel plays within a gyroscope....  I said "replace the flywheel with a gyroscope."  Big fucking difference......savvy!  not a question..... You want folk to see the relation that a coil has to a flywheel, mediocre....the relation a coil has to a gyroscope is where folk need to focus, but since you are the competent authority, you get to decide where folk invest their time....bullshit!


Regarding the "grounded forces"....I cannot tell you how good it feels to bask in the glory of your ignorance....gonna stretch this out as long as I can....


You can't relate because, as can be interpreted from the tone of your opinions, suggestions and recommendations, you are better than the best in the peanut gallery.....King shit on planet shit....  What I say makes no sense to you because it registers too low on your bullshit meter, got to get your nose out of the air, you have to drop the bar...lower your sensitivity levels.... where you have your meter set, my bullshit is just noise...  You are tuned to your level of bullshit.... Try and understand, I don't have the skill set to bullshit at your level.  Come down off that long legged horse and mingle with the know nots, you might pick up a bad habit or two, and or an STD or three, it will be a first, and experience, a WIN WIN for you!


You play this strawman card on everyone who gives you shit.....Kiss a strawmans straw ass....   Open your fucking impotent (not the best choice but it fits...) mind, broaden your  horizons.  There are literally hundreds of better instructors than you, refer folk to them and be silent, like a gangster would! 


The conversation ends when I no longer feel the need to entertain myself at your expense.  The dismissive attitude, a facade I wear for the antagonists, like batman's costume (the dark knight bitch).   When the moment arrives and better things come calling, go fuck yourself till I'm ready to entertain myself with this silly, meaningless, distraction you arrogantly and ignorantly associate with ambrosia.


In conclusion, your presence on a platform where you obviously don't fit in (know them by their work) is suspect.  Your need to demonstrate your superior intellect, projecting it on any and everyone like a piss drunk working person is beyond a bit pretentious, its out right PISS OFF!

My turn to jump on the gang pile! Three words: Scrap Yard Magnet!

 

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