Language: 
To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding.
Amazon Warehouse Deals ! Now even more Deep Discounts ! Check out these great prices on slightly used or just opened once only items.I always buy my gadgets via these great Warehouse deals ! Highly recommended ! Many thanks for supporting OverUnity.com this way.

User Menu

Tesla Paper

Free Energy Book

Get paid

Donations

Please Donate for the Forum.
Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.(Admin)

A-Ads

Powerbox

Smartbox

3D Solar

3D Solar Panels

DC2DC converter

Micro JouleThief

FireMatch

FireMatch

CCKnife

CCKnife

CCTool

CCTool

Magpi Magazine

Magpi Magazine Free Rasberry Pi Magazine

Battery Recondition

Battery Recondition

Arduino

Ultracaps

YT Subscribe

Gravity Machines

Tesla-Ebook

Magnet Secrets

Lindemann Video

Navigation

Products

Products

WaterMotor kit

Statistics


  • *Total Posts: 897375
  • *Total Topics: 15812
  • *Online Today: 44
  • *Most Online: 103
(December 19, 2006, 11:27:19 PM)
  • *Users: 4
  • *Guests: 13
  • *Total: 17

Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 372204 times)

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #255 on: March 30, 2017, 09:08:00 PM »


Well, almost. In reality all real circuits will have some stray capacitance so there will be some ringing. You can see this slight ringing in Jeg's scopeshots. But less sensitive instrumentation -- like my LED   ;)   is good enough to show the truth and demonstrate the principle.

(snip)

Agreed, but he is running really fast.  A larger coil and a much slower clock would reduce the ringing to small patches of peach fuzz.  Plus no schematic so who knows what the hell is really going on.  Wherever the current viewing resistor is it looks like it is not seeing the coil current after the switch-off.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Zephir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • Reddit about Aether Wave Theory
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #256 on: March 30, 2017, 09:15:20 PM »
Quote
the problem with you Zephir, is that you are trying to get people to believe you have a cat, when you are talking about your stuffed toy teddy bear
I never claimed anything about me. It was you, who said, that overunity is impossible. My person is completely irrelevant for this claim. The problem with you is, you're disrupting the topic of this forum with such an attitude.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 11:19:32 PM by Zephir »

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #257 on: March 30, 2017, 09:16:53 PM »
Repost for the alternative Big Thinkers so this doesn't get lost in the shuffle:

We know that a flywheel is equivalent to a coil.  So what about RESONANCE, when a coil is resonating at its resonant frequency?  How does that relate to a flywheel?

i.e.; The brass pancake flywheel at its resonant frequency.

If you really can describe a flywheel self-resonating then what is so special about a coil self-resonating?  But can you do it?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #257 on: March 30, 2017, 09:16:53 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Zephir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • Reddit about Aether Wave Theory
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #258 on: March 30, 2017, 09:22:36 PM »
Resonance is classical physics phenomena and it doesn't explain overunity (being itself based on energy conservation laws). In general, if you can derive something with using of classical physics models and laws (which disallow overunity), then you can be also sure, it's irrelevant to overunity mechanism. The reason why the resonance is still significant for many overunity circuits  is, it minimizes the impedance of circuit and thus loses of energy in it.  Many overunity effects are depending on amplitude of oscillations, which gets maximized in resonance frequency.

Offline Jeg

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1539
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #259 on: March 30, 2017, 09:23:52 PM »
Thanks Guys. One more question please.
You said that when switch opens, current continues moving the same direction across the coil and lights the led. Then wouldn't our secondary show a negative value and then a more negative peak? I am referring to the yellow waveform of mine which is the secondary's voltage output. Obviously that is not happening. Why is that? 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #259 on: March 30, 2017, 09:23:52 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Zephir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • Reddit about Aether Wave Theory
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #260 on: March 30, 2017, 09:34:02 PM »
@Jed Which circuit are you talking about (diagram)? Where the probes have been attached to it?

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #261 on: March 30, 2017, 09:43:02 PM »
It was you, who said, that overunity is impossible. My person is completely irrelevant for this claim. The problem with you is, you're disrupting the topic of this forum with such an attitude.

I've been a member of this forum for many years and have survived all attempts from people like you to PROVE ME WRONG. The problem with YOU is that you are making false claims and false statements that will mislead people into wasting their time, money and creative juices on dead-end schemes that will never work.

Please post a link to where I have said that "overunity is impossible". You can't do it, because that is another of your false claims. I have certainly said that particular ideas will never result in overunity, and nobody has been able to prove me wrong about that. But we are here discussing YOUR claim, and the claim of others, that current reverses when a coil is disconnected from power.

I'm still waiting for your answer to my little schematic puzzle. How can the LED be flashing if the current reverses, as you have claimed? Do you think I've faked that demonstration? Where is your own demonstration that refutes me? Nowhere, that is where, because you cannot refute real facts.

Actually, it is YOU who are disrupting this forum with your demonstrably false claims and your refusal to learn, along with your refusal to perform and show experiments of your own in support of your claims.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #261 on: March 30, 2017, 09:43:02 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #262 on: March 30, 2017, 09:48:12 PM »
Resonance is classical physics phenomena and it doesn't explain overunity (being itself based on energy conservation laws). In general, if you can derive something with using of classical physics models and laws (which disallow overunity), then you can be also sure, it's irrelevant to overunity mechanism. The reason why the resonance is still significant for many overunity circuits  is, it minimizes the impedance of circuit and thus loses of energy in it.  Many overunity effects are depending on amplitude of oscillations, which gets maximized in resonance frequency.

Once again you refer to "overunity circuits" and "overunity effects". But those circuits and effects do not exist. You cannot demonstrate a single Joule of overunity yourself, nor can you point to _genuine_ demonstrations of others that do. The closest anyone can come is to show scope traces like Partzman's, which are still unverified by testing with other methodology.  Go ahead and PROVE ME WRONG with demonstrations and experiments of your own. You cannot.

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #263 on: March 30, 2017, 10:27:14 PM »
Thanks Guys. One more question please.
You said that when switch opens, current continues moving the same direction across the coil and lights the led. Then wouldn't our secondary show a negative value and then a more negative peak? I am referring to the yellow waveform of mine which is the secondary's voltage output. Obviously that is not happening. Why is that?

For me personally if you want an answer you have to post your schematic, and show where your test probes are, both for the ground leads and the signal leads.  If there is a transformer, then you must indicate the dot convention of the transformer.  Finally, there is obviously a pulse train that is driving your gate input.  You need to include a capture of that pulse train signal along with one of the other two waveforms from your other scope capture so that I can see what the relative timing is like for the pulse train.

You have to understand the mental stress involved in looking at a scope capture and having to envision and reconstruct what you think the circuit might be in your head.  Even a simple circuit can be stressful with multiple unknowns.  That is in contrast to the relative ease in looking at scope captures and comparing them to a clear and properly annotated schematic.  Then you can focus your mind on answering your question, and not on building an imaginary circuit in your head that might be correct or might be incorrect so that it fits what you see in the scope capture.  I am not going to reverse-engineer an unknown circuit in my head to make it fit your scope capture.

Sorry, no proper documentation, no answer.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #263 on: March 30, 2017, 10:27:14 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline Zephir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 381
    • Reddit about Aether Wave Theory
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #264 on: March 30, 2017, 10:51:15 PM »
Quote
Once again you refer to "overunity circuits" and "overunity effects". But those circuits and effects do not exist. You cannot demonstrate a single Joule of overunity yourself, nor can you point to _genuine_ demonstrations of others that do. The closest anyone can come is to show scope traces like Partzman's, which are still unverified by testing with other methodology.  Go ahead and PROVE ME WRONG with demonstrations and experiments of your own. You cannot.

This is common strategy and propaganda tactics of all overunity deniers and trolls. The cold fusion and antigravity findings are dismissed with exactly the same strategy for whole century already. BTW Show me, that electron exist with demonstrations and experiments of your own. You cannot.

Quote
I've been a member of this forum for many years and have survived all attempts from people like you to PROVE ME WRONG.

This is suspicious by itself. Prove, that you aren't agent payed with government for spreading of disbelief in overunity.

Offline ramset

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7469
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #265 on: March 30, 2017, 11:58:19 PM »
Zephir
Being a new guy maybe you have not seen the efforts Tinsel has made over the years to help
builders here.

he gets out the tools and rolls up his sleeves and explores any valid claims which come along. and as of this writing he still offers to do this from time to time ....

In my opinion you waste a valuable opportunity to explore your OU Circuits here ?

I myself have nothing but respect and gratitude for his efforts ,and I must add most here who actually build and share their work [open source]
feel the same way.

having a starting point for a claim is a very good thing , finding a true Anomaly is not possible until you understand what truly is possible !

Regarding Milehigh ,he has a very good grasp on the Box and what fits inside ,this too is very useful .

having limited resources and time ,most men would like to know the outline of the Box ...so as to not waste time on well trodden ground...
a true anomaly is very rare indeed..

no stone left unturned...

respectfully
Chet K





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #265 on: March 30, 2017, 11:58:19 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline evostars

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
    • my youtube channel with bifilar pancake coil info
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #266 on: March 31, 2017, 12:02:43 AM »

For the last 10+ years (something special is to be found in taking your sweet ass time....) I have studied every patent granted to Nikola Tesla which has even the slightest relation to the "Coil for Electromagnets".  In none of those documents does one find Tesla describing the current as "spiraling, or compressing inwards".......


Most theories fall short of a practical application, this is not the case with Tesla.  He presents you with an idea, even better than this, he informs us that he has stopped using "physical capacitors", having discovered, and or realized that he could "so construct the coils themselves as to accomplish the same ultimate object."  I find his documents were prepared for the thinking few, not for parrots, nor for the learned.  Ever take note of those weird statements, the ones that make no sense when you "consider" the information which precedes and the information which follows the weird statement?  These points are completely overlooked by the majority. 


Quote: 


"This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current, and the self induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency."


What you can take from this is, if you don't have those mutual relations existing between.....you don't have what he wanted you to have.  If your circuit isn't developing the special character of current.....you don't have what he wanted you to have.  If your circuit doesn't have the necessary mutual relations existing between the special character of the current, and self induction and capacity, you don't have what he wanted you to have.  In other words, your bifilar will be about as useful as milk yielding utters on a bull in heat. This is where many find themselves......a confused mess....



A confused mess...... 



The relation that I find Tesla spoke about was 90°.  The bad news if this is about power, and when isn't it about power, 90° relation means what you want is useless because its reactive.....that is the reality of this world....  Why make a useless relation the foundation of your vision.....probably because it wasn't useless....
what do you think this special character of the current is?
I've been using short pulse discharges. with a IGBT. discharging a capacitor, just like tesla used his quenched spark gaps. to produce short energetic burst of discharge.
and it  rotates through the spiral coil. In the process creating a dielectric field between the windings due to the voltage difference.

your statement "confused mess" i find disrespectful, not constructive. But thats in line with alot of other posts here.

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #267 on: March 31, 2017, 03:00:23 AM »
"This is due to the mutual relations existing between the special character of the current, and the self induction and capacity of the coil, the latter quantity being just capable of neutralizing the self-induction for that frequency."

What you can take from this is, if you don't have those mutual relations existing between.....you don't have what he wanted you to have.  If your circuit isn't developing the special character of current.....you don't have what he wanted you to have.  If your circuit doesn't have the necessary mutual relations existing between the special character of the current, and self induction and capacity, you don't have what he wanted you to have.  In other words, your bifilar will be about as useful as milk yielding utters on a bull in heat. This is where many find themselves......a confused mess....

There is nothing to be read in between the lines with respect to the "special" character of the current.  Tesla knew full well that his coil current was not manifesting a 90 degree phase lag like it should have done if an inductor was the load.  He also knew that it was not leading by 90 degrees like if a capacitor was the load.  So he had a coil where the excitation voltage and the resulting current where in phase, which merited the term "special."  There was a exchange of electric field energy and magnetic field energy in his coil such that when you viewed it across the two terminals at the right excitation frequency it looked like an ordinary resistive piece of wire.  In the context of the times, that was "special."  Beyond that, there is nothing else to read into what Tesla was saying and he was not hinting at something extraordinary that you are supposed to link with other "mysterious phrases" in other documents to discover the "hidden secret" that he put in his documents like some puzzle to "protect himself from the Powers That Be."

Offline MileHigh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7600
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #268 on: March 31, 2017, 03:29:16 AM »
what do you think this special character of the current is?
I've been using short pulse discharges. with a IGBT. discharging a capacitor, just like tesla used his quenched spark gaps. to produce short energetic burst of discharge.
and it  rotates through the spiral coil. In the process creating a dielectric field between the windings due to the voltage difference.

There is nothing special about the "special" current.  Or you can say the fact that the current is in phase with the voltage makes it special because that is not "supposed" to happen.

So I take it that the IGBT momentarily connects a large capacitor charged to a certain voltage to the pancake coil for a brief instant and then the IGBT switches off and then the pancake coil is effectively isolated again and rings down.  I assume that the ring-down event could be observed with a scope probe across the coil.

Yes, you set up a "dielectric field" between the windings that might store a few microjoules of "dielectric energy" in the coil.  During the short pulse when the IGBT is on you will also induce some current to flow through the coil and perhaps that will store of few tens of microjoules of magnetic energy.

Note:  There is a very good chance that the majority of the few tens of microjoules of stored magnetic energy actually burns off inside the IGBT during the event time of the IGBT switch-off.

Then when the IGBT switches off the pancake coil has a short epileptic seizure where the few microjoules of transient capacitive energy and the (possibly) few tens of microjoules of inductive energy bounce around inside the pancake coil and burn off in a combination of resistive dissipative energy and EM radiation energy.  The energy bounces back and forth within the physical form of the coil which would only be a fun thing to investigate for some finite element modeling junkie to crunch down at a fine granularity.  He or she could power up 10 octa-core PC boxes for two weeks and show you a really cool video clip after the big crunch-down.

Alternatively a lay person like yourself can see what is presumably a tiny ring-down with your scope event trigger.   And if you put an AM radio next to the pancake coil you might hear a tiny "tick" telling you that the epileptic seizure just took place and the pancake coil broadcast that event out into the Universe.

And then you can put on Peggy Lee and listen to "Is That All There Is?"

And this entire event can be quite accurately modeled with a flywheel.

Oops, gotta go, the phone in my shoe is ringing...

Offline TinselKoala

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13968
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #269 on: March 31, 2017, 05:49:19 AM »
This is common strategy and propaganda tactics of all overunity deniers and trolls. The cold fusion and antigravity findings are dismissed with exactly the same strategy for whole century already. BTW Show me, that electron exist with demonstrations and experiments of your own. You cannot.
No "antigravity" device has ever been shown to be real, and I've tested quite a few of them myself, and have even saved at least one big investor millions of dollars by pointing out AND PROVING that he was being scammed by the people who presented a fake one to him.  The "cold fusion" story is still not finished, but certainly there are scammers and frauds in that area too, Andrea Rossi being the foremost one at the moment. As far as the existence of electrons goes... you are proving it yourself by using a computer. Do you think the people who designed your computer deny the existence of electrons? Do you think CRTs and electron-beam lithography work in spite of the designers' "wrong" belief in electrons? You have passed right through folly and have made it all the way to comedy now. You get a ROFL for this! And of course I can perform my own demonstrations and experiments that prove the existence of electrons. I still have CRT oscilloscopes after all. And I use devices manufactured by EBL all the time... and so do you! ROFL!

"dismissed with exactly the same strategy".... that strategy being a simple demand for solid experimental PROOF !!

Quote



This is suspicious by itself. Prove, that you aren't agent payed with government for spreading of disbelief in overunity.


Now you are showing your paranoia, which is a mental disease. You are making the claim, it is up to YOU to prove it.  Prove that I am some kind of government paid agent!

Besides, my paycheck seems to be late this month.   

You do realize that you are a troll, I hope.

 

OneLink