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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 187121 times)

Offline ramset

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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1426 on: May 06, 2017, 01:27:38 AM »
Nelson
Honestly it is very hard to believe. and here the Skeptic [the capable skeptic] is embraced with gratitude.
Transmission line theory and standard EE modeling are overlapping here[maybe more too??.

However there have been other ways to show these results[input dropping with load applied]
and those were easier to sort [find the real gain mechanism ,[or error]..

I know it can change either way at any moment...with Lots of help arriving daily to assist.
But I agree
Lets hope the best is yet to come!!

respectfully
Chet K

Ramset , i agree with you  that is much to do to  , but the possible  "OU" effect is a reality , myself already measure the same OU months ago , but unfortunately most ignore when i put the video show that apparently OU , in this same thread many posts ago .
The difference is that my work is not recognized because seems i don't understand nothing of electronics ;) and i not have any credibility in this community, and of course i did not make claims :) what seems Essential for some persons.
I put again the link of the video with the "apparently" COP above 1 
https://youtu.be/Te7NcDY-afQ?t=18

cheers

Nelson Rocha

PS- look to date of video ;)

Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1427 on: May 06, 2017, 02:29:32 AM »
Nelson
Don't take it personally
Partzman has done the same work for years, and when he was unable to loop it [still trying]
he would put it down and rest a bit
but its been on his bench at OUR for several years but many more years than that on His Lab bench.

he has always assumed an error [we are supposed to do that with claims this big]
but he is unable to find the obvious??error

not that it was ignored but not really taken seriously either [by the community]

Then Nelson comes along...And I asked Partzman again about this {pancake coils]
as we have discussed it casually from time to time over the years ,and its always been on his bench at OUR for anyone who can
visit the forum to see[member or not]

and now we are here??

looking for the error and hoping not to find an error ,but a vindication.

one way or the other
this is good for the community!
and the fellows are having an amazing time with this puzzle
although I think the Koala works too hard on this, he loves it and ??? its hard to do {frustrating to loop].


Thanks
Chet



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1427 on: May 06, 2017, 02:29:32 AM »
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Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1428 on: May 06, 2017, 03:00:55 AM »
Nelson
Don't take it personally
Partzman has done the same work for years, and when he was unable to loop it [still trying]
he would put it down and rest a bit
but its been on his bench at OUR for several years but many more years than that on His Lab bench.

he has always assumed an error [we are supposed to do that with claims this big]
but he is unable to find the obvious??error

not that it was ignored but not really taken seriously either [by the community]

Then Nelson comes along...And I asked Partzman again about this {pancake coils]
as we have discussed it casually from time to time over the years ,and its always been on his bench at OUR for anyone who can
visit the forum to see[member or not]

and now we are here??

looking for the error and hoping not to find an error ,but a vindication.

one way or the other
this is good for the community!
and the fellows are having an amazing time with this puzzle
although I think the Koala works too hard on this, he loves it and ??? its hard to do {frustrating to loop].


Thanks
Chet


Hi Ramset,

The meaning of my sentence is not say that anyone is better then no one  , but show that even the less experimented person in this forum  should be see their work and opinion respected and considered , and you will sure agree with me , that not happen since begin , and that should stop and should be a lesson to many people.

Even Partzman opinion was disregarded at a certain point in this same thread in beginning and that should be motive to people think that we are learn all time   .
The most important now is see persons involved and try their best to reach the goal and that will make grow in this forum other forms of thinking in the future .
We should hear and absorb the best of all ideas and opinions and not be guided in rigid way , to people could reach their goals .

Hope the best to all experimenters

Nelson Rocha




Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1429 on: May 06, 2017, 03:16:57 AM »
Nelson

I must admit
It would be a thing of beauty if it turns out to be real

The reason it sat on the bench off and on for so long, is that old timers here have seen this "type" of effect many times
in many circuits ...circuits where the errors' were eventually found ,  this is assumed {and still is} to be one of those errors'

until proven otherwise [with looping or a gain which proves no doubt]

that is after all the scientific method

I do agree with your comments .

have a good night

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1429 on: May 06, 2017, 03:16:57 AM »
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Offline Drak

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1430 on: May 06, 2017, 03:34:12 AM »
  I'm no expert in the field of electronics, but instead of directly trying to loop this device, wouldn't it be easier to find the best frequency that gives the best results for the particular device and build a small circuit that supplies that frequency being powered by some caps (or supercaps). Then on the output use equal value caps and see how much they charge? Or is there a lot of losses in caps?


Again I'm no expert, just throwing out ideas.

 

Offline padova

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1431 on: May 06, 2017, 05:03:39 AM »
I might try this setup, but I would go whit more power 0.5W or so.
Also what is impedance of L2 at some frequencies, We all know what happens when you connect low impedance loading,
Unless we really have some sort of negative electricity going on inside.
TK has tried connecting a diodes as  voltage rectifier with associated capacitors, I guess it was too low impedance.

I know these are all well known stuff. I apologize.

respectfully
« Last Edit: May 06, 2017, 08:21:44 AM by padova »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1431 on: May 06, 2017, 05:03:39 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1432 on: May 06, 2017, 07:05:28 AM »
Ramset , i agree with you  that is much to do to  , but the possible  "OU" effect is a reality , myself already measure the same OU months ago , but unfortunately most ignore when i put the video show that apparently OU , in this same thread many posts ago .
The difference is that my work is not recognized because seems i don't understand nothing of electronics ;) and i not have any credibility in this community, and of course i did not make claims :) what seems Essential for some persons.
I put again the link of the video with the "apparently" COP above 1 
https://youtu.be/Te7NcDY-afQ?t=18

cheers

Nelson Rocha

PS- look to date of video ;)

Unfortunately your video shows very little in the way of correct power analysis method's--it has to be far better than that.


Brad

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1433 on: May 06, 2017, 09:02:33 AM »
The Partzman Bifilar Transformer  is not a Tesla Bifilar coil because its series connection is not connected, and the "input" winding is left floating at the end. It also is not operated at its resonant frequency. Further, it doesn't have to be a pancake coil, the effect can also be obtained with a solenoid coil properly wound.
So for those three reasons it probably does not belong in this thread.

But I'll post a little photo anyhow, just to keep the pot stirred.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1433 on: May 06, 2017, 09:02:33 AM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1434 on: May 06, 2017, 11:14:55 AM »
While the effect has been noted in other coils

Partzman's work is mostly with Pancake coils in many configurations ,these have presented the best results to date.
there  has been all manner of testing and all manner of  serious work in other configurations ;
and yes it was found that resonance was to be avoided ,but not assumed to always be the case[as a definitive statement .

not certain of Tesla wind as this has been going on for many many years with all manner of attempts
but at the end of the day, Pancake coils are where Partzmans MEI work has focused .

 yes this should be in its own thread here.

will see ?

respectfully
Chet K
ps
re Coils he has seen the effect with
Partzman quote
Below is a pix of some of the various coil arrangements I have used that all yield COP>1 except for one, that is the coil in the upper right hand corner.  Most are made with ribbon cable and the one sandwiched between the plexiglass is 3x 25 turns of 26 awg magnet wire and has produced >30 watts out in a 51 ohm load when driven with resonance on the input.

Pm

Offline Dog-One

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1435 on: May 06, 2017, 11:38:47 AM »
Quote from: partzman
Below is a pix of some of the various coil arrangements I have used that all yield COP>1 except for one, that is the coil in the upper right hand corner.  Most are made with ribbon cable and the one sandwiched between the plexiglass is 3x 25 turns of 26 awg magnet wire and has produced >30 watts out in a 51 ohm load when driven with resonance on the input.

So ribbon cable not so good.  Bummer.

Okay then, if I can draw up some nice PCB coils and submit them to OSH Park,
anyone can buy them direct from there and test to their hearts content.

Who is game for that?


Playing with Fusion 360, it is fairly easy to generate a spiral coil.  I'm able to export
it, make a DXF conversion and pull it into DipTrace.  So this looks very practical.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1435 on: May 06, 2017, 11:38:47 AM »
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Offline Jimboot

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1436 on: May 06, 2017, 12:35:39 PM »
Nope
Two mens opinion.

I agree 100% Chet.


Brad
3 and I would add just attack the data not the messenger. I loved that about MarkE. 

Offline Grumage

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1437 on: May 06, 2017, 12:56:21 PM »
Hello All.

For something " quick and dirty " what about Copper " Slug repellent " tape?

It comes in various lengths and widths with a non stick paper backing, any type of " bi, tri or quad " configuration could be tried fairly easily.

Just a thought....

Oh Poynt99 has also suggested coaxial cable. L1 being the centre core and L2 the braid.

Cheers Graham.

Offline Dog-One

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1438 on: May 06, 2017, 01:16:30 PM »
Hello All.

For something " quick and dirty " what about Copper " Slug repellent " tape?

It comes in various lengths and widths with a non stick paper backing, any type of " bi, tri or quad " configuration could be tried fairly easily.

Just a thought....

Oh Poynt99 has also suggested coaxial cable. L1 being the centre core and L2 the braid.

Cheers Graham.

Don't think coax cable will work.  Tried a bunch of that.  But PCBs...   Yeah, that's the ticket.

You guys jump in with some specs and I'll design'm, post'm and you can play with'm.

Offline Jimboot

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1439 on: May 06, 2017, 02:07:19 PM »
I'm on board Matt (pun intended) My understanding was high impedance, more turns will get desired effect at a lower frequency, so more accessible.


 

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