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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 288870 times)

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1395 on: May 04, 2017, 02:04:12 PM »

 
If you don't see that as an attack, there is something seriously wrong here. Perhaps it is a language problem or a cultural divide, but it is definitely a hurtful statement. You can nitpick about semantics, saying "there is a proverb that says" is somehow different from saying directly "Mile High is like an ownerless dog"... but it isn't really different at all in its hurtfulness.

I refrain in my sentence that is a proverb , but if you understand like a attack what i could do about that ?  is your opinion and i respect . but someone that go attack even friends just because don't agree with their point of view to me fits very well in that proverb. Is like he say to i kiss their ass , maybe to you no problem but maybe to me is a way of language aggression .

cheers

Nelson Rocha

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1396 on: May 04, 2017, 02:05:19 PM »
I did not attack anyone i just say :"There is a proverb that says people like him are like  "dogs that do not know the owner"
Did you want that i explain to you what means ?

That is calling dog to anyone ?  is a proverb . Are so difficulty understand that ? Is the language barrier that are make fog when you read ?
People have eyes to read clear all the posts .
And What truth hurts me ?    are you referring to what objectively? Is that your argument to make their defense?
How i see i'm a visceral aggressor :) come on stop joking .

cheers

Nelson Rocha

I get why you didnt care for that post from MH. He went right for the "you need help in electronics" and you took offense to that. It used to be that he would say this place was for people to learn electronics, and apparently that is not what he says these days. ::)

Just follow my lead and ignore. Read if you like but replying just gets ya what ya get. You throw a stone and he brings the sword. You bring the sword and he brings the gun.  Its always a 'one up', as in to out do your comeback replies with escalating name calling etc..  If some others here dont agree, Ill show 'at least' 10 examples of exactly that, from this thread alone AND only going back to where I joined in. Been looking.  Any challengers on that claim I just made??  ;)

Anyway, just chill and ignore. Its not worth the wear on the keyboard.

Mags

Offline ramset

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1397 on: May 04, 2017, 02:12:08 PM »
If I may put a line in the sand at this ongoing investigation into Pancake coils discussion.
an intermission of the Fist ti cuffs ,we can resume @$#%#@ shortly

I did put out a call to membership to Buy Brad a scope [a few hours ago]
the Funds are here
also there are extra funds to go To Tinsel [several specific requests

just hung up with Brad ,
and he'd be wasting money buying it in OZ when we can
get it so much cheaper [exchange rate]


I will also be talking with Stefan about how we can make these contributions to builders a part of the forum here

he had some ideas

intermission over...





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1397 on: May 04, 2017, 02:12:08 PM »
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Offline Grumage

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1398 on: May 04, 2017, 02:24:27 PM »
Before you go " talking scopes ".....

I wish to resign from the role of moderator.

I lost a friend yesterday and upon deep reflection I realised that perhaps my thoughts are a little outdated for the present times.

My sincerest apologies.

Graham.

Offline evostars

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    • my youtube channel with bifilar pancake coil info
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1399 on: May 04, 2017, 02:40:35 PM »
Russ Gries response to Tinman video #3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyG3F_4-TLo

haha, well you realize that you were the one who made up the test that I was doing... :) as I stated in my video, " I don’t think this is the proper way of doing this measurement" and that’s why I was saying it, just as you explained it here in this video :)
anyhow, it did tell the story of what is happening in the circuit.

However your clam from the beginning was that there WAS more current flowing in R2 than there was in R1. That was the clam, but from what I have seen you do in this series of videos is you haven't measured a voltage anywhere to back up that clam.

So, if you use a light bulb (a restive load) to check "current" then you can indeed get a light to light with less voltage and more current. See what I'm trying to say here? I would like you to measure a Voltage with a reference ground point outside the coil. (so not anywhere in the coil) this is basically what I was doing in my last video, measuring the voltage of L1+R1 and L2+R2.  So if I would stick a resistor R3 on the side where your positive is coming from your FG then I would measure the exact amount of current as R1.  there for just as you said, what goes in must come out, however, what you measure inside the coil ( L-C circuit and if you add the R2 then it is a parallel L-C-R circuit) is different.

so at the end of the day, you might be putting in 1 watt, But if you can get this circuit "pumping" then you can measure "more" current in the L-C-R "tank" type circuit. that’s how these type of circuits work.

Of course there is capacitance in this coil. That’s the entire reason why Tesla dezigned this coil. Over all the years Ii have played with high capacitance coils (This is what Stan Meyers VIC injection bobbin dose) all that extra capacitance sets up a Self L-C circuit. And if you want to include the resistance of the wire then it’s a fill blown R-L-C circuit.

So having that capacitance is very helpful for some applications.

What happens in a L-C circuit? At some point you get maximum current flow. That is at the resonant point.
So it makes good sense that you can “measure”  more current  with in the circuit than what your FG can put out, as you have pointed out.
I hope this helps you understand what we are dealing with here.  We can think outside the box but only if we cannot explain it in the box first.
Think of it as a laser cavity. You can get MAGAWATS out of a laser cavity. However if you add up all the inputs of 1w pulses of light over the given time domain of the pumping  ( so 1watt x the time pumped) then you can see how its possible to get that 1 megawatt worth of power out of that device.
If you don’t calculate the TOTAL energy input over the time, then it’s a mystery why you can get 1megawatt out when your only putting 1 watt in???

Now if we were thinking outside the box is  when we can sustain a 1 megawatt output while still putting in only 1 watt…
Hey, are we having fun yet  I am!
Also that’s why the Rodin coil testing was so interesting, its because I could measure the output Vs input, and I’ll be darn, I could get 1 amp in and 1 amp out, however the VOLTAGE was 40:300???
I was seeing an extra 800Watts in my Rodin coil testing…
So if I could “tap in to” that power and extract that extra Voltage, and NOT disturb the input ( so capacitive or dielectric coupling only) then it might just might be possible to use that “extra” power that is being generated in that coil ( using its self-capacitance and resistance and inductance)
Wow that was a long response, but I fell text will be better than a video for this one :)
~Russ

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1399 on: May 04, 2017, 02:40:35 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1400 on: May 04, 2017, 03:08:02 PM »
author=ramset link=topic=17186.msg505990#msg505990 date=1493897614]
Brad




Quote
I have one question
Partzman's work [MEI} evolves around Pancake coils
we have not even touched the later versions
Why is it an attack on MH to say
This is an ongoing investigation into Pancake coils ?

It's not an attack to say we have ongoing investigations--thats fine,and i am one of those carrying out those ongoing investigation's.

But here is the thing.
We get guys come in here and say-the Tesla BPC is (yes-is) special.
So MH ask's what is special about it,and go's on to say that there is nothing special about it.
So then the guys that made the claim that it is special,now attack MH,and say he has no idea what he is talking about,and should just shut up.
Fact is,these very same guy's,are also the guy's that cant show anything special about the BPC--but there still happy to tell MH to shut up--WTF

This is(and you know this)not the scientific method.
If you make a claim,then you have to have the data to back up that claim--not just tell some one to shut up,because there wrong-even though you cant prove there wrong.

Quote
if there is an effect which holds true to the Claim {Nelson's and Partzman's]

I have no idea as to what Nelson has claimed,but has Partzman ever claimed that this effect is !only! due to the BPC,as it would seem that TK can achieve the same results with a solenoid coil-as can i now.

Quote
how can we dismiss this ,without qualifying it?

How can we make great claims on it,without qualifying it?.

Quote
especially when it may have merit [a unique feature for MEI investigations.

Im hoping it dose turn out to have merit,but we are not there yet,and so claims of greatness should not be fought over,until the proof is in the pudding.

Quote
I see no point demanding answers[MH Whats so special] until the testing is done.

I agree Chet,and i also see no point in making claims about how great the BPC is,until testing is done.

Quote
I apologize in advance if
saying its an ongoing investigation is taken as an attack.
and that is at the brunt of this entire "attack"
Mh insisting on answers to questions which are under investigation.

Thats not it Chet.
The problem is,as i stated-those here that make great claims about the BPC,but havnt a shred of evidence to back it up !yet!--but still feel that they have the right to tell MH to shut up,as he dosnt know what he is talking about.

Quote
and then Nelson gets defensive and its all run amuck

As i said,i dont know much about Nelson.
But what i have read so far,Nelson has much to learn--as do most of us here.

Even the best of us get it wrong some time's,and it happened in this thread,and at OUR,in regards to Partzman's circuit--and this was from two guys that know there stuff-MH,and verpies.
Verpies first pointed out,on the thread at OUR,that the position of R2 in Partzman's circuit,would not show the correct input current value. MH also posted the schematic showing the very same thing-R2 should be at the live input end,and he drew in a capacitance that bypassed the R2 path.

I argued with verpie's over this,and told MH that he made a mistake,and that all the current would flow through R2 in the original ground position.
It took TK to verify this,before anyone would listen.

So the point is-we can all be wrong at one point in time,even if we are the best of the best.

MH might take note of the above example,and understand that !sometime's! the guys on the bench,know more than what the books might teach  ;)

I think a system re-boot needs to happen now,and lets just get on with the show,without all the agro.


Brad

Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1401 on: May 04, 2017, 03:20:06 PM »
Russ Gries response to Tinman video #3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyG3F_4-TLo

haha, well you realize that you were the one who made up the test that I was doing... :) as I stated in my video, " I don’t think this is the proper way of doing this measurement" and that’s why I was saying it, just as you explained it here in this video :)
anyhow, it did tell the story of what is happening in the circuit.

However your clam from the beginning was that there WAS more current flowing in R2 than there was in R1. That was the clam, but from what I have seen you do in this series of videos is you haven't measured a voltage anywhere to back up that clam.

So, if you use a light bulb (a restive load) to check "current" then you can indeed get a light to light with less voltage and more current. See what I'm trying to say here? I would like you to measure a Voltage with a reference ground point outside the coil. (so not anywhere in the coil) this is basically what I was doing in my last video, measuring the voltage of L1+R1 and L2+R2.  So if I would stick a resistor R3 on the side where your positive is coming from your FG then I would measure the exact amount of current as R1.  there for just as you said, what goes in must come out, however, what you measure inside the coil ( L-C circuit and if you add the R2 then it is a parallel L-C-R circuit) is different.

so at the end of the day, you might be putting in 1 watt, But if you can get this circuit "pumping" then you can measure "more" current in the L-C-R "tank" type circuit. that’s how these type of circuits work.

Of course there is capacitance in this coil. That’s the entire reason why Tesla dezigned this coil. Over all the years Ii have played with high capacitance coils (This is what Stan Meyers VIC injection bobbin dose) all that extra capacitance sets up a Self L-C circuit. And if you want to include the resistance of the wire then it’s a fill blown R-L-C circuit.

So having that capacitance is very helpful for some applications.

What happens in a L-C circuit? At some point you get maximum current flow. That is at the resonant point.
So it makes good sense that you can “measure”  more current  with in the circuit than what your FG can put out, as you have pointed out.
I hope this helps you understand what we are dealing with here.  We can think outside the box but only if we cannot explain it in the box first.
Think of it as a laser cavity. You can get MAGAWATS out of a laser cavity. However if you add up all the inputs of 1w pulses of light over the given time domain of the pumping  ( so 1watt x the time pumped) then you can see how its possible to get that 1 megawatt worth of power out of that device.
If you don’t calculate the TOTAL energy input over the time, then it’s a mystery why you can get 1megawatt out when your only putting 1 watt in???

Now if we were thinking outside the box is  when we can sustain a 1 megawatt output while still putting in only 1 watt…
Hey, are we having fun yet  I am!
Also that’s why the Rodin coil testing was so interesting, its because I could measure the output Vs input, and I’ll be darn, I could get 1 amp in and 1 amp out, however the VOLTAGE was 40:300???
I was seeing an extra 800Watts in my Rodin coil testing…
So if I could “tap in to” that power and extract that extra Voltage, and NOT disturb the input ( so capacitive or dielectric coupling only) then it might just might be possible to use that “extra” power that is being generated in that coil ( using its self-capacitance and resistance and inductance)
Wow that was a long response, but I fell text will be better than a video for this one :)
~Russ

And my response to Russ 

Russ. The whole point of the test i gave you to carry out,was to see if you would pick up on the mistake of measuring the current flow through R2,and take that as the total current flow.. There are some of us at this very time,who are getting overunity results,and great care has been taken in the power measurements. So let's be honest,you made a video trying to show i was doing it the wrong way,but in that video you showed a phase shift in two flowing currents through the coils,when in fact,if you wanted to bring in power factor's,you should have been showing the phase shift between voltage and current. So why didnt you get an OU result,well for the very reason i showed in my last video. If you have been doing this a long time,then you should have picked up on that-but you didnt. Once again,you made a claim that i was wrong,and that L2 wasnt dissipating more power than L1,but once again you missed something that you should know all about,and because you missed that,you decided that i was wrong,and that L2 was not dissipating more power than L1.--Hmmm.

Anyway-such is life--but take more care when you decide to make a video about some one else,and there work,and try and tell them they are wrong.


So evostars,what else has Russ missed?
He showed us in his first video,but never gave it a second thought--do you bother to watch thing's closely,or do you just kick back,and ride on some one elses wave's?

I bet you have no idea what Russ missed in the first video  ;D


Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1401 on: May 04, 2017, 03:20:06 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1402 on: May 04, 2017, 03:45:25 PM »
Good, it's over.  Magluvin's little poll backfired on him.  He is fully aware of what he did to me on this forum when he teamed up with Synchro1.  It's the same pattern as you have seen here with Nelson only much much worse.  He tries to brush it off but it is there.

As far as Nelson goes, his predatory behaviour towards me comes to an end right now.  Forget all of the spinning from all of the players around here including Nelson himself, the real issue was Nelson's perception that he could come in and bash me whenever he pleased.  He did it repeatedly and then tried to pretend that he didn't.

You also saw a lot of ridiculous spinning that would compete with what transpired in the recent US election.

Why do people act like this?  What is going on in their hearts?  I will just quote myself, "Every person should have the strength of character and the personal integrity and the self-respect to behave properly."  If you can't do that then you are a schmuck.

Many people, especially Magluvin, attempt to demonize me.  Don't fall for the spin, trust your own instincts and make your own judgements.  Magluvin has deep psychological issues about me, he literally hates me.  It's an unhealthy obsession on his part and factor that in when you read what he says about me.

You are not going to find me insulting and degrading people, but I will push back from time to time like any normal person.  Hey, I am an imperfect human also, and I am sure my record is not 100% squeaky clean.  But my general comportment is good and I do not go around bashing people, that's for sure.  So don't get fooled by any cherry picking of quotes from me, especially if they are taken out of context.

Nelson's insulting and bashing of me stops now, and you can dismiss any protests that he might make of his innocence, it's all right here on this thread.

Now we can move on.

Offline nelsonrochaa

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1403 on: May 04, 2017, 04:08:11 PM »
Good, it's over.  Magluvin's little poll backfired on him.  He is fully aware of what he did to me on this forum when he teamed up with Synchro1.  It's the same pattern as you have seen here with Nelson only much much worse.  He tries to brush it off but it is there.

As far as Nelson goes, his predatory behaviour towards me comes to an end right now.  Forget all of the spinning from all of the players around here including Nelson himself, the real issue was Nelson's perception that he could come in and bash me whenever he pleased.  He did it repeatedly and then tried to pretend that he didn't.

You also saw a lot of ridiculous spinning that would compete with what transpired in the recent US election.

Why do people act like this?  What is going on in their hearts?  I will just quote myself, "Every person should have the strength of character and the personal integrity and the self-respect to behave properly."  If you can't do that then you are a schmuck.

Many people, especially Magluvin, attempt to demonize me.  Don't fall for the spin, trust your own instincts and make your own judgements.  Magluvin has deep psychological issues about me, he literally hates me.  It's an unhealthy obsession on his part and factor that in when you read what he says about me.

You are not going to find me insulting and degrading people, but I will push back from time to time like any normal person.  Hey, I am an imperfect human also, and I am sure my record is not 100% squeaky clean.  But my general comportment is good and I do not go around bashing people, that's for sure.  So don't get fooled by any cherry picking of quotes from me, especially if they are taken out of context.

Nelson's insulting and bashing of me stops now, and you can dismiss any protests that he might make of his innocence, it's all right here on this thread.

Now we can move on.


I never insult you or no one in this forum  but the opposite happens . I never tell you to you shut up like some of your friends say but the opposite happens because you feel that have that authority  .

And you have true is all right here on the posts that you write  ; no doubts about that . persons have eyes to see that you are not a victim . you are only a victim of you own behavior.
Like i told you in other occasion you should review how you treat people , and everything will run nice and normally .

Have a nice day

Nelson Rocha

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1403 on: May 04, 2017, 04:08:11 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1404 on: May 04, 2017, 04:09:12 PM »
Good, it's over.  Magluvin's little poll backfired on him.  He is fully aware of what he did to me on this forum when he teamed up with Synchro1.  It's the same pattern as you have seen here with Nelson only much much worse.  He tries to brush it off but it is there.

As far as Nelson goes, his predatory behaviour towards me comes to an end right now.  Forget all of the spinning from all of the players around here including Nelson himself, the real issue was Nelson's perception that he could come in and bash me whenever he pleased.  He did it repeatedly and then tried to pretend that he didn't.

You also saw a lot of ridiculous spinning that would compete with what transpired in the recent US election.

Why do people act like this?  What is going on in their hearts?  I will just quote myself, "Every person should have the strength of character and the personal integrity and the self-respect to behave properly."  If you can't do that then you are a schmuck.

Many people, especially Magluvin, attempt to demonize me.  Don't fall for the spin, trust your own instincts and make your own judgements.  Magluvin has deep psychological issues about me, he literally hates me.  It's an unhealthy obsession on his part and factor that in when you read what he says about me.

You are not going to find me insulting and degrading people, but I will push back from time to time like any normal person.  Hey, I am an imperfect human also, and I am sure my record is not 100% squeaky clean.  But my general comportment is good and I do not go around bashing people, that's for sure.  So don't get fooled by any cherry picking of quotes from me, especially if they are taken out of context.

Nelson's insulting and bashing of me stops now, and you can dismiss any protests that he might make of his innocence, it's all right here on this thread.

Now we can move on.

I behave as a gentleman but "I will push back from time to time like any normal person" too. You told me I can't tell a watt from a Tesla.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1405 on: May 04, 2017, 04:25:04 PM »
Meanwhile back at the ranch.....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1405 on: May 04, 2017, 04:25:04 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1406 on: May 04, 2017, 05:35:06 PM »
oops wrong forum    ;D

Offline partzman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1407 on: May 04, 2017, 05:53:34 PM »
oops wrong forum    ;D

That's OK, still a great test ;)!

Pm

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1408 on: May 04, 2017, 06:26:21 PM »
Graham, thank you for your work and your time and your heart.
Please accept my best wishes and condolences, I am sorry for your loss.
Hang in there, mate...
--TK

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1409 on: May 04, 2017, 06:28:08 PM »
Maybe what is special about a BPC is that it can more readily show a condition that any coil "can" have, and that maybe it allows for easier control over the parameters.

Yes, that is right, that's a good way of putting it.  Lowering the relevant frequencies makes for easier control over everything.

 

OneLink