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Author Topic: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency  (Read 288806 times)

Offline evostars

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    • my youtube channel with bifilar pancake coil info
Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1215 on: April 27, 2017, 09:17:25 AM »
So is this confirmation of what you said evostars--at a particular frequency the magnetic field becomes stationary?
no,  waiting for tinmans video :D


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1216 on: April 27, 2017, 12:02:50 PM »
Ok,here is the video,and the test setup--easy for all to try.

This finding open's a can of worm's,and in the video's to come,i will show you why.

Is the value of current flowing through the center of the winding,the same as the value of current flowing into the coil ?
In this case,the answer is no,when we reach a certain frequency-and above.
It dose not have to be the resonant frequency to see this effect.

Even though we have a series circuit(resistor/coil/resistor/coil),where the two coils and two resistors are the same,R2 shows at least twice the current flowing through it,than that of R1.
TK has achieved a much higher differential between the two resistors-maybe he will post his results here. 

More to come--lets screw with ohms law  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZhCyKIAvg


Brad

Offline hoptoad

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1217 on: April 27, 2017, 12:14:50 PM »
snip...
This finding open's a can of worm's,and in the video's to come,i will show you why.
snip...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZhCyKIAvg
Brad
Nice can of worms!!!  ;D  Thanks for sharing that observation.

P.S. Have you tried pulsed DC (square wave) to see if the effect is the same or similar as AC ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1217 on: April 27, 2017, 12:14:50 PM »
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Offline web000x

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1218 on: April 27, 2017, 01:30:45 PM »
Ok,here is the video,and the test setup--easy for all to try.

This finding open's a can of worm's,and in the video's to come,i will show you why.

Is the value of current flowing through the center of the winding,the same as the value of current flowing into the coil ?
In this case,the answer is no,when we reach a certain frequency-and above.
It dose not have to be the resonant frequency to see this effect.

Even though we have a series circuit(resistor/coil/resistor/coil),where the two coils and two resistors are the same,R2 shows at least twice the current flowing through it,than that of R1.
TK has achieved a much higher differential between the two resistors-maybe he will post his results here. 

More to come--lets screw with ohms law  ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZhCyKIAvg


Brad



I don't have a BPC to play with, but this sure does look like a parallel LC phenomena where the coil has the distributed LC constants..


Dave

Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1219 on: April 27, 2017, 02:36:04 PM »
OK,so now the!wait for it!--overunity effect.

Dose ohms law fail in this situation?.

Below a pic of the result's, shown in the linked video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnndKlAsq4E

Brad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1219 on: April 27, 2017, 02:36:04 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1220 on: April 27, 2017, 02:37:58 PM »
Nice can of worms!!!  ;D  Thanks for sharing that observation.

P.S. Have you tried pulsed DC (square wave) to see if the effect is the same or similar as AC ?

Have not tried a pulsed DC yet Hoptoad
But will do for sure--cant let Mag's down--must look at what dose not get looked at.


Brad

Offline padova

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1221 on: April 27, 2017, 03:06:54 PM »
Tinman add resistor R3 at the end of the coil, that is L2, see what current is there, is it the same as across R2?

regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1221 on: April 27, 2017, 03:06:54 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1222 on: April 27, 2017, 03:24:09 PM »
The effect has been confirmed by TK.

I will post the test setup,and video showing the effect tonight after work.

Brad

@Tinman,

The gain is stored in the magnetic field and is measured in "Negative Henries". This measurement has an electrical power equivalency!

Offline Dog-One

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1223 on: April 27, 2017, 08:12:14 PM »
Good test Brad.  Another eye opener.

You remember the demonstration video the old MIT physics professor did in regards
to non-conservative fields?  Do you suppose this BPC is invalidating Kirchhoff's Law the
same way?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1223 on: April 27, 2017, 08:12:14 PM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1224 on: April 27, 2017, 11:32:08 PM »
Thanks for showing and doing ;) Brad. Dont take it badly but I have some questions...

I understand that the ohms of the coils are very low and you cant get an accurate reading in them.

There may be some issue with how you are going about isolating said currents in the coils by way of the 100 ohm resistors.  Also, having a 100ohm resistor in between the middle connections may affect how the coils interact with each other , and probably and especially at the freq you are doing the tests.


1   How are we sure that the resistor current to that far left resistor is the actual current in the 1st coil next to it as a whole?  Like if the resistor in the middle of the circuit shows a different voltage across it than the far left resistor, I would expect some phase shift between coils is causing this, whether it be the inductance of the coils, self inductance as a whole, and or the capacitance, of which is probably altered severely with the 100ohm resistor in between the windings.

2   How is it that we can say that the currents of the middle resistor are a representation of the coil to the far right only? If there is phase shifting, that could foul up your calculations because we didnt actually look at the coils and how they are acting in the circuit in reference to each other. That would require 2 probes.

Maybe you can do a low ohm resistance in series with each coil just to do a voltage division with the coil and dc input to accurately calculate the resistance of each coil. Then you can eliminate the resistor, at the least the middle one, and put the probes across each coil. Both gnds of the probes in the middle of the coil and each probe at the opposite ends of the whole coil and invert one of the traces to compensate. Then you will be able to surely calculate the power dissipated in each coil because you would have the resistance value in check for each coil.

Im really glad you came up with what you have. Its different and new.  Maybe Im wrong to suggest what I have, and if so, please explain.

Mags

Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1225 on: April 27, 2017, 11:33:21 PM »
Negative value:

Inductance in Henries is a measure of emptiness. How much volume is in a container? One gallon of volume would be a positive value of nothing, right?

Now, let's say we fill the gallon bottle half way; We can view the liquid as negative emptiness. Do you follow me so far?

We need to view the contents as inverse holding space to understand the meaning of the negative value.

It doesn't matter if it's A.C. or D.C.; The reluctance is the ratio of the "Magnetic Flux" in the circuit and the "Magnetomotive Force" or MMF.

We can see the "Negative Henry" value here in this equation:

L = 2*l*(log(4*l/d)-3/4)  (nH/m) (1)where, L = inductance of lead wire (nH/m) d = diameter of lead wire (cm)l = length of lead wire (cm)

"The Mystery of Inductance of Lead Wire We sometimes see "inductance of lead wire" in Electrical Engineering technical books. For example, the expression above is found in a book titled "Analytical Noise Mechanism" by CQ Publishing Co. at its 120th page".

Here's the Ampere to Gauss equivalency:

The SI base unit for electric current is the ampere. 1 ampere is equal to 1 coulomb/second, or 2997924536.84 electrons per gauss.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2017, 11:39:35 AM by synchro1 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1225 on: April 27, 2017, 11:33:21 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1226 on: April 28, 2017, 01:00:54 AM »
@Tinman,


You're not the first tester to measure gain in Tesla's serial bifilar pancake coil. Cancellation of inductance is one feature,
storing spontaneously generated power in a magnetic field is another.


Try measuring the coils for inductance and see if you read a minus sign in front of the Henry? This negative inductance value will factor out to the same power gain in amperage.

Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1227 on: April 28, 2017, 09:49:35 AM »
Thanks for showing and doing ;) Brad. Dont take it badly but I have some questions...

I understand that the ohms of the coils are very low and you cant get an accurate reading in them.

There may be some issue with how you are going about isolating said currents in the coils by way of the 100 ohm resistors.  Also, having a 100ohm resistor in between the middle connections may affect how the coils interact with each other , and probably and especially at the freq you are doing the tests.


1   How are we sure that the resistor current to that far left resistor is the actual current in the 1st coil next to it as a whole?  Like if the resistor in the middle of the circuit shows a different voltage across it than the far left resistor, I would expect some phase shift between coils is causing this, whether it be the inductance of the coils, self inductance as a whole, and or the capacitance, of which is probably altered severely with the 100ohm resistor in between the windings.

2   How is it that we can say that the currents of the middle resistor are a representation of the coil to the far right only? If there is phase shifting, that could foul up your calculations because we didnt actually look at the coils and how they are acting in the circuit in reference to each other. That would require 2 probes.

Maybe you can do a low ohm resistance in series with each coil just to do a voltage division with the coil and dc input to accurately calculate the resistance of each coil. Then you can eliminate the resistor, at the least the middle one, and put the probes across each coil. Both gnds of the probes in the middle of the coil and each probe at the opposite ends of the whole coil and invert one of the traces to compensate. Then you will be able to surely calculate the power dissipated in each coil because you would have the resistance value in check for each coil.

Im really glad you came up with what you have. Its different and new.  Maybe Im wrong to suggest what I have, and if so, please explain.

Mags

Mag's
Several proofs here.

1st-both TK ,and now Itsu,have confirmed a higher current value through R2 than R1.
2nd-power factor has no effect of the measured current through a resistor. Power dissipated by a resistor,and current flowing through a resistor,is measured by way of the voltage drop across that resistor-regardless of what the power factor is.
3rd-we confirmed the higher voltage value across R2,by way of lighting the LED,which would not light across L1.

So,this current through R2,is going into both coils,as we are using an AC current.
The value of this current is decreasing through each coil,the closer we get to the other end of each coil<--this is my best guess ATM,and will be looking for that tonight.


Brad

Offline hoptoad

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1228 on: April 28, 2017, 10:03:57 AM »
snip...
So,this current through R2,is going into both coils,as we are using an AC current.
The value of this current is decreasing through each coil,the closer we get to the other end of each coil<--this is my best guess ATM,and will be looking for that tonight.
Brad
Perhaps TK's recent video showing transmission line effects may also apply here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4T5KKQjz0s
A focused standing wave produced ? ? ?
Cheers

Offline tinman

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Re: The bifilar pancake coil at its resonant frequency
« Reply #1229 on: April 28, 2017, 10:54:15 AM »
Perhaps TK's recent video showing transmission line effects may also apply here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4T5KKQjz0s
A focused standing wave produced ? ? ?
Cheers

Maybe
Or maybe we have added displacement current to that of the input current  :P

Check out the below pics of scope positions,and associated scope shot's
Look at the phase relationship in all 3 scope shots,for power factor correction.

Do the math  ;)


Brad

 

OneLink