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Author Topic: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.  (Read 17268 times)

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #30 on: February 09, 2017, 05:57:12 AM »
And how exactly is that supposed to bring this project any step further? It just makes the thread harder and longer to read, just like most other postings, in fact not only in this thread, but in every one.
Certainly, many people are afraid of a bullshit button cause all they produce is bullshit and they may feel perfectly comfie, sitting in a sea of bullshit.


However, despite all spam-defending preaching, I don't.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2017, 06:48:01 PM »
I am having problems finding the right magnets on ebay, maybe somebody can give me a little hint here.


What I need is a very thin, very big magnet with a proper polarization, see the graphic here: http://overunity.com/17116/searching-for-buddy-in-promising-magnet-motor-project/msg499525/#msg499525

I would prefer something like 50 * 50 * 0.5 mm, block or disc shape. That doesn't seem to exist, best I've seen was 32*1 disc.


I may try instead smaller block magnets like 7*7*0.5mm, and then force and glue them in position, side by side, but even that I could not find. There are thin disc shaped ones, but I need rectangular ones in such an assembly.


A further qudstion is: there are flexible magnet foils, they would be an option, but I am not certain whether they have any proper polarity at all, but I tend to think they' made out of randomly polarised particles, just sticking on iron anyway.
Also, the magnet I need may be thicker if the stength is lower, as long as they are properly polarized. Also, as my assets are parked offshore (read extremly limited) I would prefer something cheap, from china most likely.


Thanks for your help.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2017, 07:11:56 PM »
Just sharing some thougths and progress info.


Like I said, can't find the magnets, and even if I find something worth trying, standard delivery will take 2-6 weeks.


So I made a test: crushed some of a ceramic magnet, put a piece of paper on a MO magnet, put the little magnet pieces on it, on an area of like 1/3 inch2. They nicely alignet to the field. Put some glue on it, done. This can be done repeatedly with layers.


Crushing the magnet should maybe not be done with too strong shockwaves. Pieces from 0.1 to 0.5mm seem fine.


Sorry if I ask again, did anybody actually understand the principle of the device described earlier in this thread?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #32 on: February 11, 2017, 07:11:56 PM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2017, 03:54:28 PM »
So... I take it, eighter you guys know something that I don't know, or I know something that all of you don't understand.


If the latter is the case, let me say that I would guess an IQ of 80 (that of a gifted gorilla) is enough to understand it, IF you really understand the Lenz law and the secondary field in induction.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2017, 07:49:20 PM »
I realize the only monkey here is me, because I am talking to myself in public.


Maybe the problem of this forum is, that people (other than notorious naysayers) read only their own threads.


However, it sucks. I don't see anything coming back here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2017, 07:49:20 PM »
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Offline Low-Q

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2017, 10:37:41 PM »

I was trying to talk about this with a PHD in electrotechnics and it turned out these guys can only recite wikipedia formulas without to understand them, really, that is the state of academics these days, and have never built any device in all their lifetime.


So, smartasses stay away from here, I need practical people with real world experience and a profund, personal and complete understanding of induction.
Induction should absolutely be comprehensible. I haven't read the whole thread yet - my fingers just pressed "Quote" and I did start to type this :-))


Vidar

Offline Floor

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2017, 11:54:39 PM »
@dieter

           My experiences are some times similar. 

In my toipcs, some times, it seems I am talking to an empty
room.

One never knows when or if, some one else will come along
who has.... both the time and intrest to come back with something
relevant.

On accasions, I have simply posted my results /  next steps, ideas...
so on and nothing happens at al .... or.....  not for a while.

Some times this is because the topic is usless....

Some times its because of who knows ? maybe just the timeing ?

                         So don't worry about it..

Many times I don't comment on other peoples  topics ... because I'm not qualified
to do so....It's over my head.
................................................................................................
................................................................................................

Some times people are    NOT    understanding a subject... but they think they are / are quite
certain that they do understand it. 
                    and so
they raise passionate and often well founded objections to that subject (which they are
certain they have understood... but which infact they have no understanding at all) 
(at least in the context in which the topics founder is presenting his information).

While at the same time.... their objection, based upon correct understanding, is very accurate
if looked at from THEIR context.

It can be very difficult to get some one to see a subtle difference in context...
especially if that person has a lot of knowledge in a particular area of science.

People. typically / eventually....come to a place where they think they have seen it all.....
and their projections of some point of view, upon a subject is then very difficult for
them to change it. 

                         They may not see that..... 
what is very true / always has been true... under all conditions they have ever observed.... 
are simple not what is being looked at / discussed.

case in point
one definition of work and then .... physic's definition of work.
........................................................
.............................................................................


If an electric current is flowing.... the electric potential is changing.

The potentuial may be MAINTAINED as constant at some SPECIFIC
measurement point  (ie. a regulateing power supply)...
but down the line ... and at both ends of that current flow...
there is a potential change.... or at least  convention so holds it.

An electric potential changes.... and / or.... is created, due to a current flow......
                             or
An electric potential changes and / or is created, due to the magnetic
component of the electric/magnetic...... the electric/magnetic always..... co exist
are aspects of a same phenominon.

These are basics... which I am sure you are allready fully aware of.

But its where I would focus if I were the one doing your / this exploration.

It's not that the basics are invalid...  I  think rather that...it is the assumptions
which are / have been made about those basics .....
                 and
what those basics SEEM to imply..... but perhaps do not.... that we might examine.
.............................................
Dia magnetizm is very weak, not perhaps useful in a motor / shield ?

Your crushed magnet approch gives you layers in which plane ?
What polarity orientations in the layers, do you intend ?

                            regards
                               floor


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2017, 11:54:39 PM »
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Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #37 on: February 14, 2017, 08:03:15 AM »
@Deiter


To be honest, after the first standard obscurities, when you
Began to vaguely describe your idea...
You lost me.
I have no idea in what context you mean to say "increasing magnetic field"
Because you associate this also with "approachig field" concepts.
To me these are two separate mechanisms of magnetic fields.
Strength, being a matter of density, separate from field dimensions
Together, size and strength of the field give its characteristics of field gradient.
Electromagnetic fields are different, in that they have the electric vector and
associated time constant.
In a permanent magnet, the electric vector is 90-degrees to that of induction,
and manifests itself as a purely magnetic effect on the large scale.
Thus there is no "time".


I tried to follow you through your rants about other people's inability to
Understand what you are talking about, and then again you lost me
When you described an unobtainable magnet size.
Now I'm in America
And it seemed to me that you want a magnet
That is 2inches in diameter , and 0.2 inches thick???
That would likely break itself in any conceivable use platform.
Is there no way for you to use something thicker?
If not, my suggestion would be to sacrifice "field strength"
For the ability to obtain a smaller physical size magnet.
Something like ironferrite or Sumeriam-cobalt
These could be safely cut that thin and hold up against
Minor abuse.
There are also magnetic tape, and sheets of thin stuff
You can cut.
These are mostly soft-rubber magnets with some %ferrite
and are weaker than ceramics of similar dimension.
Ceramicferrite magnets may work for whatever you are trying
To do, just use caution when breaking or cutting them.
You can scratch a groove in a ceramic and get them to
Break along fairly straight lines.


As far as "back emf" is concerned:
Here is only one Authority whom understands the process
Of back emf, and how to eliminate or avoid it.
His name is Jim Murray


This is just a you tube video, short and to the point
But I recommend viewing a few of his lectures.
https://youtu.be/HK3JOlY0V8Y


This is the foremost expert in the field of back-emf research
And the only man on earth to successfully demonstrate how to
Avoid back emf in three formats: magnetic-mechanical, electric,
And with solid-state electronics.
He is also an expert in recycling electricity through circuits,
Using feedback loops and switches to return current through a
Circuit, from whence it came.
Thus double, triple using it, or more until it is all "really used".
Yes- he figured out that we don't use most of our electricity
We just pass it through the circuit and let it go.
He knows how to catch it and bring it back.


Offline shylo

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2017, 12:48:53 AM »
Wouldn't just placing a strong neo at one end of a 6 inch long, 32nd of an inch,
 piece of laminate steel ,give you your, strong, thin, magnet ,at the opposite end?
artv

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2017, 12:48:53 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2017, 01:57:59 AM »
Thanks for all your responses, I may respond to few points later.


Here are some FEMM screens with explanations.


Here's a test arrangement. Top Magnet is eg. strong Neo, Bottom coil is passive atm. Everything between these two is the Rotor.


Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2017, 02:02:08 AM »
Next the minimum and maximum of magnetic field strength you can achieve with this shield inside the coil:

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #40 on: February 15, 2017, 02:02:08 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #41 on: February 15, 2017, 02:14:02 AM »
Next thing ist most important: while the shield is approaching, no fieldlines that go in and out of its bottom say should ever show their butt to the coil!
Butt is the backside of the arrows, btw. We want any field that is between the shield(=rotor) and the coil to be straight from top down to bottom as much as possible, at any moment. The reason why is, we don't want any repulsion, only a variation of attraction.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #42 on: February 15, 2017, 02:42:58 AM »
So, basicly, from the coils point of view, the rotor is just a PM. But because it also shields the big, stator magnet, it will reduce the total field strength when you move it closer. Yet, it's still a magnet. Lenz kicks in, "thinking" the rotor is moving away (due to decreasing fieldstrength) and therefor Lenz does what? Yes, attract the presumably escaping rotor, while in reality the rotor is getting closer.
I think this is what people don't get. Lenz drag becomes Lenz accelleration, if you simply make the field decreasing while the rotor gets closer.


Yeah, that's all very nice, but there are certain factors that clearly indicate a narrow bandwith, in which this inverting trick can be used at all.


First of all, if we drop the magnetic fieldstrength, we cause current flow in the coil, and it will be of like magnetic polarity, like the main magnet etc. remember that! As one can imagine the coils secondary magnetic field adds to the primary field, and this reduces practically the fieldstrength drop we need to get current flow... the snake bites its tail.


However, there may be a narrow band in which the accelleration has it's peak, that could be half of the magnetic potential between shielded and unshielded.


To simulate this, I have replaced the coil by a weak ceramic magnet. It's static magnetic field symbolizes the current we may extract. Notice that we still have a variation in field strength. This may very well be the narrow regime in which the Reversal of the Lorentz force is possible.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2017, 06:44:05 AM »
Wouldn't just placing a strong neo at one end of a 6 inch long, 32nd of an inch,
 piece of laminate steel ,give you your, strong, thin, magnet ,at the opposite end?
artv
Thanks, but I'm afraid not. Iron typically and excessively adopts the magnetic polarity based on its own shape. Only oversaturated iron ignores the shape. So if you stick a magnet to a nail or sheet, the poles will be at the two ends, which is what I use in the flield shaping part, but I have to hide this shaped field behind PM, see also recent pics.

Offline dieter

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Re: Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2017, 07:03:47 AM »
[/font]@DeiterTo be honest, after the first standard obscurities, when you Began to vaguely describe your idea...You lost me.I have no idea in what context you mean to say "increasing magnetic field"Because you associate this also with "approachig field" concepts.To me these are two separate mechanisms of magnetic fields.Strength, being a matter of density, separate from field dimensions Together, size and strength of the field give its characteristics of field gradient.Electromagnetic fields are different, in that they have the electric vector andassociated time constant.In a permanent magnet, the electric vector is 90-degrees to that of induction,and manifests itself as a purely magnetic effect on the large scale.Thus there is no "time".I tried to follow you through your rants about other people's inability toUnderstand what you are talking about, and then again you lost meWhen you described an unobtainable magnet size.Now I'm in America And it seemed to me that you want a magnet That is 2inches in diameter , and 0.2 inches thick???That would likely break itself in any conceivable use platform.Is there no way for you to use something thicker?If not, my suggestion would be to sacrifice "field strength"For the ability to obtain a smaller physical size magnet.Something like ironferrite or Sumeriam-cobaltThese could be safely cut that thin and hold up against Minor abuse.There are also magnetic tape, and sheets of thin stuffYou can cut.These are mostly soft-rubber magnets with some %ferriteand are weaker than ceramics of similar dimension.Ceramicferrite magnets may work for whatever you are trying To do, just use caution when breaking or cutting them.You can scratch a groove in a ceramic and get them toBreak along fairly straight lines.As far as "back emf" is concerned:Here is only one Authority whom understands the process Of back emf, and how to eliminate or avoid it.His name is Jim MurrayThis is just a you tube video, short and to the pointBut I recommend viewing a few of his lectures.https://youtu.be/HK3JOlY0V8YThis is the foremost expert in the field of back-emf researchAnd the only man on earth to successfully demonstrate how toAvoid back emf in three formats: magnetic-mechanical, electric,And with solid-state electronics.He is also an expert in recycling electricity through circuits,Using feedback loops and switches to return current through aCircuit, from whence it came.Thus double, triple using it, or more until it is all "really used".Yes- he figured out that we don't use most of our electricity We just pass it through the circuit and let it go.He knows how to catch it and bring it back.
[/font]
@Smoky,


thanks a lot for your suggestions. Did I really say "increasing magnetic field"? Not rather "Increasing magnetic fieldstrength"?
Well you guys think way to much. You assume this is some super complicated, abstract stuff, while I am actually just speaking of a permanent magnet, that is moving towards a coil. No surprise the magnetic field, at the location of the coil, is getting stronger. This is simple stuff, don't overcomplicate it ^^


Anyway, thanks.

 

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