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Author Topic: re: energy producing experiments  (Read 24603 times)

Offline Delburt Phend

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #105 on: August 09, 2018, 03:17:35 AM »
We know that kinetic energy is not conserved in motion alone. Kinetic energy allegedly gives off heat when small objects strike large object. This excuse of heat is negated in this experiment because there is no motion loss when a small sphere interact with a larger cylinder (twice).

If energy were conserved when the cylinder gives its motion to the spheres only a fraction of the motion would be contained by the spheres. The motion would not be available to return all the motion back to the cylinder and spheres combo. It would actually take 18 frames to cross the black square in this experiment; if energy were conserved. 

The crossing of the black square in four frames at the beginning; middle; and end: is consistent with Newtonian Momentum Conservation. And the energy increase is about 450%. But this 450%  is very small compared to other arrangements.

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #105 on: August 09, 2018, 03:17:35 AM »

Offline Delburt Phend

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2018, 03:42:42 AM »
A 305 gram mass moving 5.02 m/sec will combine its motion with a 972 gram mass at rest; the combined mass of 1277 grams will be moving 1.2 m/sec. This is not a debatable statement: it is the Law of Conservation of Momentum. If you know the velocity of the combined mass you then know the velocity of the incoming small mass.
 
You can count the frames as the black square crosses from side to side (four). By measuring the velocity of the spinning cylinder (1.2 m/sec) we then also know the velocity of the spheres (5.02 m/sec); when they contain all the motion.
 
The energy of the larger combined mass is .919 joules: the energy of the spheres is 3.85 joules. The energy increase is proportional to the mass difference.   1277 g / 305 g = 3.85 J / .919 J
 
This event has no mass limit; the sphere could have a mass of 305 metric tons. The mass difference can be very large; the spinning wheel mass could be 30,500 metric tons. A tower of dropping masses can increase the time over which the force acts; the energy increase would be 10,000%. The 305 tons can be throw up ever two seconds; and then output would be measured in megawatt-hours.
 
The output: construction cost; and maintenance, would be similar to a hydroelectric plant.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/balpen.html

Note the word 'inaccessible'. The energy is inaccessible; it cannot come back. The motion energy would disappear: it is inaccessible.

But the experiments show that there is no loss of motion. Energy conservation is a false concept.

Offline Delburt Phend

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2018, 10:54:43 PM »
Accelerate a bar so that it is moving perpendicular to its length. Accelerate the bar to 1 m/sec and then catch it on the end so that it must rotate around one of its ends. When the bar starts rotating on one end the center of mass will continue at the same speed; in this case 1 m/sec.
 
When the center of mass continues at the same speed the energy of the bar increases to 133%. For energy to remain the same (when the rotation starts) the speed of the center of mass would have to decrease by 13.4%. The fact that the speed of the center of mass does not decrease means that energy is not a conserved quantity.
 
Momentum conservation always overrules energy conservation in real experiments.

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2018, 10:54:43 PM »
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Offline F6FLT

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #108 on: October 18, 2018, 09:47:12 AM »
A 305 gram mass moving 5.02 m/sec will combine its motion with a 972 gram mass at rest; the combined mass of 1277 grams will be moving 1.2 m/sec. This is not a debatable statement: it is the Law of Conservation of Momentum. ...

You can't combine the momentum or kinetic energy of separate parts to have that of the whole. The analysis of the law of conservation must be made in the same referential frame, preferably an inertial frame, and the speed applies to the center of mass. Energy/momentum depend on the referential.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Q7L2BOYkjE
...
I see nothing else than energy and momentum conservation.

What makes you think that the potential energy of the cylinder that is used when falling to feed the movements of the ball would be less than the energy acquired by the ball?

« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 11:49:52 AM by F6FLT »

Offline Delburt Phend

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #109 on: Today at 01:04:28 AM »
Is the frame an excuse? Is the frame something used by the smart people; to explain why the rest of us don't understand things that are perfectly simple. F = ma is perfectly simple; I see no need for it to be framed.

The problem with Q7L2BOYkjE is that the cylinder is still accelerating toward the ground. But I think we could take a snap shot in time where the cylinder is stopped; both in rotation and in falling: and at that point the sphere has all the momentum and or energy. So what is conserved all the momentum or all the energy; does it have all the mv or all the 1/2mv²? The proof of which one of the two is conserved comes from another experiment: the double despin     https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=YaUmzekdxTQ

At two points all the rotational motion is in the spheres and (twice) the spheres give all the motion back. Two small masses restart a much larger mass: experiments prove that only linear Newtonian momentum is conserved when small masses give their motion to larger masses.

In the Dawn mission yo-yo de-spin; three kilograms stops the rotational motion of 1420 kilograms. If the initial average speed was one meter per second then the initial momentum around the arc of the circle was 1420 units.  When the rotation of the satellite was stopped the spheres had 1420 units of momentum; or 473.3 for each kilogram; requiring a velocity of 473.3 m/sec.
 
For ½mv² to be conserved the initial energy of 710 joules would require that the three kilograms would have a velocity of 21.755 m/sec. But then the 65.27 (3kg * 21.755 m/sec) units of momentum would have to restore the 1420 units if the weighted cables were left attached; as in the double despin.

By restoring the rotational motion; after the weighted string are left attached, the double despin proves that unlimited quantities of energy can be made from gravitation.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #109 on: Today at 01:04:28 AM »
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Offline F6FLT

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #110 on: Today at 10:35:18 AM »
Is the frame an excuse? Is the frame something used by the smart people; to explain why the rest of us don't understand things that are perfectly simple. F = ma is perfectly simple; I see no need for it to be framed.

F = ma is "perfectly simple" but false if you use it outside its domain of application.
 
It is false when m is not constant, you must use F=dp/dt instead where p is the momentum.
It is false when relativistic effects cannot be neglected (therefore surely when we consider currents of electrons).
It is false when you measure "a" in a referential and F in another one.
It is false in general: you forgot that F and a are vectors, not scalar.

The two last points are the reasons why your analysis is as wrong as your calculations.
It is not enough to keep the simplest equation because we understand it, to make correct calculations. Physics is not "perfectly simple".

The "perfectly simple" principle that the analysis by the lagrangian of the system is equivalent to the analysis by the forces rules out the possibility of extra energy for purely logical reasons. Hoping to defeat the laws of physics by using the laws of physics is childish because they are internally consistent, it's like searching for a particular case "n" where n+1 would be different from n+1.

I have a reluctance to let things I consider false be said, and in this case I explain why I consider them false, it can help to get out of ignorance as I myself have benefited from others.
That said, I do not prevent anyone from wanting to live in ignorance or illusion.
I even hope that I will be shown that I am the one who lives in illusion, it is enough that those who show illogicality in their analysis of a mechanical system are nevertheless able to build a working looped machine.
So far, I have read hundreds of their claims, but I have not observed the slightest working machine created by their minds.


Offline Delburt Phend

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #111 on: Today at 10:47:44 PM »
F = ma:       Acceleration (a) is equal to the change in velocity over the change in time v/t.  Therefore: Ft = mv.  And mv is a conserved quantity and unabated.
 
Most of those confused about vectors think a spinning rim has no momentum: because each quantity of mass has an equal quantity of mass on the other side moving in the opposite direction. But in fact all the mass is moving in the same ‘vector’ direction.
 
A ten kilogram rim spinning at 3 meters per second, around the arc of the circle, has 30 units of momentum. Proof of this statement can be obtained by wrapping the spinning rim with a string weighted with a 10 kilogram mass floated on dry ice.
When the string comes taut the 10 kg rim will jerk the 10 kg on dry ice to a velocity of 1.5 m/sec. The 10 kilograms on dry ice will have 15 units of momentum and the rim will still have an arc velocity of 1.5 m/sec. The 1.5 m/sec is half the original velocity of the rim: so half the original velocity of the rim is equal to 15 units of momentum. So the original momentum of the rim was 30 units of momentum.

Furthermore: 20 kilograms (the rim and the block on ice) moving 1.5 m/sec is 22.5 joules of energy. But the 10 kilogram rim had an original energy of 45 joule. You cannot claim a 50% loss of heat energy because the despin cylinder and spheres machines move back and forth: in this case 22.5 J to 45 J and then 45 J to 22.5 J

So this simple experiment proves that a spinning rim has momentum and that the Law of Conservation of Energy is false.

Actually it can get simpler than the rim. Do you remember what the governor of an antique steam engine looks like? It is two counter balance spheres. If you released one sphere and then the other a half rotation later the true momentum of the two spheres would be seen.  But the linear momentum they have after release is the same as the momentum they had before release.
 
The portion of the machine that produces energy (despin technologies) is the only important part; because the other half of the loop is a chain draped over a pulley. 


I have experiments that make energy: that should end all the illusions.    

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Re: re: energy producing experiments
« Reply #111 on: Today at 10:47:44 PM »
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