Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
New Battery systems => Other new battery systems => Topic started by: Cherryman on February 02, 2017, 12:25:58 PM
-
Hi all, I'm doing some research of the Utron, as described by Otis T. Carr.
I'm not claiming anything, but i have some ideas i want to test, while learning and having some fun.
I did not know in what forum topic this should be, but as Otis called the Utron an Accumulator and a Battery , I guess this is a good as place as any.
I share most of what i'm doing, for those interested.
And I hope if i have some questions, people would like to think along.
Also the other way around, if you have any questions, feel free to ask. ( Just don't expect hardcore measurement apparatus or deeply technical answers )
My test are not very structured, it is usually what comes to mind, but i have a goal!
My latest test was with a double Utron, with different plates.
One Utron with 3 large plates , the other with 8 small plates, combined to the same Ion power source and axle.
I wanted to combine torque and speed, as well as some other observations for the next step.
Double Test:
https://youtu.be/Y1PIOBXqGls (https://youtu.be/Y1PIOBXqGls)
-
Next step is testing if and how it works in en enclosure.
Very rude testbed, but it works!
I could vacuüm this, but not now, i need opening it up frequently.
The enclosure will be the base for my magnetic field to come.
https://youtu.be/0UJpQqp4ojo (https://youtu.be/0UJpQqp4ojo)
-
https://youtu.be/OjChKvA5tCM
-
Now the concept works I did some cleaning up.
Not much to report.
-
Did some more testing and learning
A test with the two rotors connected in series
Another with one rotor with double contacts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QIhLKVh_XI
-
These motors, especially the dual stage utron devices appear like they would spin a good 9 inch polycarbonate wimshurst disk or may be even two.
Multibank Wimshurst machine disks were used to power medical Xray machine tubes before modern power supplies were developed, near the turn
of the century. These devices if cleaned up really look as though they could self power. They look like they could turn the collector disks directly in a 1:1 drive
-
[/font][/size]These motors, especially the dual stage utron devices appear like they would spin a good 9 inch polycarbonate wimshurst disk or may be even two.Multibank Wimshurst machine disks were used to power medical Xray machine tubes before modern power supplies were developed, near the turnof the century. These devices if cleaned up really look as though they could self power. They look like they could turn the collector disks directly in a 1:1 drive
[/font][/size]
Yes, that's why i'm testing different diameters and/or plate sizes on the same axle.
Also i'm trying to establish if and if so, how much drag collecting will give.
I'm not making an UFO ( yet ; ) I'm just focusing on the power supply characteristics of the Utron accumulator.
I'm convinced the Utron is a capacitor and i think that when you speed it up it will trow out electrons due to angular momentum .. I just have to catch them ; )
But as all this is very new to me, i keep getting distracted and want to try different things and setups. I guess thats good, i'm learning a lot.
Tnx for your input.
-
To make it easier to understand I made a simulation of the basic principle.
Note: This is not the final design
TIP ( Thought In Progress )
https://youtu.be/lEmyfmx5HcM (https://youtu.be/lEmyfmx5HcM)
Inside there is the ion flow coming out in the middle.
The upper half and bottom half of the Utron are changing continuously polarity.
When the magnetic field is introduced they are forced around in the chamber and are picking up speed until they are thrown out.
For those who know what a Cyclotron is..
This is in a way a 3D version of a cyclotron.
But I do not only want to accelerate the particles, also the mass.
Edit: I did not expect the outbreak at the top.
I think it is just a leak in the design and simulation.
I have made another one, more up to my expectations.
Although somehow the outcome of the above one still looks nice : )
-
I fixed the leak, now the particles escape at the right perimeter.
https://youtu.be/TgA4H1DeV6M (https://youtu.be/TgA4H1DeV6M)
Also on the little screens are the collector plates visible.
Notice the nice geometric shapes of the particles before they fly out of trajectory.
-
The most important thing I got from Mr Carr's mathematics
Was the geometries involved, that almost all replicators seem to miss.
The inside geometry is perfectly spherical
The cone can vary, because a cone is always geometrically
"coherent" with it's sphere. By the law of cones and spheres.
Think of it like an electron 'lense'.
Which also has a reverse focal point at the center of
The sphere
That's why he places an importance on the plane
90-degrees to the vectoral
Along the junction of the two spheres/cones.
Miss this and you are just spinning a cone shaped coil
-
The most important thing I got from Mr Carr's mathematics
Was the geometries involved, that almost all replicators seem to miss.
The inside geometry is perfectly spherical
The cone can vary, because a cone is always geometrically
"coherent" with it's sphere. By the law of cones and spheres.
Think of it like an electron 'lense'.
Which also has a reverse focal point at the center of
The sphere
That's why he places an importance on the plane
90-degrees to the vectoral
Along the junction of the two spheres/cones.
Miss this and you are just spinning a cone shaped coil
I know, not missed by me. : ) Be patient.
I know those texts out of my mind ; )
Thats why mine is hollow in the first place.
I'm going in small steps
Here is an update:
Testing the HV AC switching of the different half.
& Got Zapped !! : )
But it works! Got some good switching going on, time to seal it up!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqQqTEm2NF8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqQqTEm2NF8)
-
Essentially the Utron will be a planet in space
The magnetic field is the Sun.
Question:
When i take in mind the cyclotron, then the magnetic field should be in line with the two halfs.
But when i take in mind the Sun and planets.. then it should be 90 degrees turned.
I think I have the answer. Coil should be vertical in this case.
And some spark fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4TrwBUSVnM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4TrwBUSVnM)
-
Looks like you are heading in the right direction
What you have represents a single 'loop' of a coil
If you were to use coated magnet-wire and make
Many loops around the cone. Then make the inside
A sphere.
Current through the coils would produce a magnetic
Dipole one end being north, the other south
The center line where the two halves join
Is the perpendicular dielectric inertial plane.
The magnetic field is very intense at the tips.
It is the entire field of the coil, condensed to a small
Space.
The strength of the magnetic field can reach far greater
magnitudes than expected from the same # of turns and
length of wire using a normal coil.
It's like electromagnetic 'neos' or whatever you want to call it.
Stronger field, smaller physical magnet. (At the tip)
The electrostatic energy is stored on metal plates (capacitors)
The magnetic energy is what rotates the main u-tron.
The magnetic field in the center (focal point of the sphere)
is purely in the electric vector. A charge at this point experiences
a force 90-degrees to the magnetic vector.
In the same way that electric current produced a magnetic field
90-degrees to itself.
The "air" inside ionizes and provides more than enough potential
to keep the charge flowing. But even in the absence of air (vacuum)
The very metal itself will induce charges because of the (0-point) charge
at the sphere's focal point.
When the main u-tron is set up properly, placing a current across the coils
It will begin to rotate in the same manner as any magnetic motor.
This creates a relative motion between any point around the center-line
of the sphere, and the charge. Thereby causing induction.
This is the main charging source of the device.
Your power supply
This is then converted back to charge the coils.
As the device spins up, current is induced through the coils in the smaller
U-trons around the outside.
The reason they are at the angle they are at is to provide an upward
rotational inertia to the craft. Which can be controlled by switching
the smaller U-trons to give control and direction.
These are your "steering wheels"
The small electrostatic energy they harvest is cycled back through
the entire assembly.
Hope that helps, if you have any ?'s I'll be glad to try and answer them.
-
Don't forget to teather your UFO before you fully test it
We don't want another Searl incident
-
Oh one more thing
Don't coil directly to the cone.
It's a step-geometry
Square- like legos or old nintendo
The frame of the cone coil doesn't
have to be part of the sphere
It's easier to have the two half spheres
Then use a non-conductive step-cone frame
to put the coil on.
You have to figure out your pitch and how many
steps there will be, how many turns per step, etc.
This is where I veer off, our knowledge of conical coils
is far more advanced than was Mr. Carr's, and that
discussion would be off topic, more applicable to
the subject of improving a working design.
We need to get one working first.
-
Here is a little update.
I dit a lot of small experiments to get more familiar with the subject and electrics. Maybe i post those little experiments when people like it.
But here is where I'm at now.
Wound my first coil ! : )
http://youtu.be/R7ux__fGEFg (https://youtu.be/R7ux__fGEFg)
-
I just watched your videos with the electrostatic motors. I liked the double rotor because it solves the wobbling of hanging rotors.
I am interested in all things electrostatic, motors and generators.
I do not understand the Utron, could you point me to some websites or books which explain the principl. Unfortuntely your video about the principle was too steep for me.
Greetings, Conrad
-
Thanks for sharing all this, Cherryman, looks like you're learning a lot in the replication process as well :) .
As long as you're getting into the magnetic component of the device, you might want to try testing/replicating this with your Utron (Img Attached: generating a magnetic field via a moving static field).
Really curious to see if an electrostatic-powered motor still generates this field, and how it affects drag when loaded.
thanks,
-rei
-
Thanks for sharing all this, Cherryman, looks like you're learning a lot in the replication process as well :) .
As long as you're getting into the magnetic component of the device, you might want to try testing/replicating this with your Utron (Img Attached: generating a magnetic field via a moving static field).
Really curious to see if an electrostatic-powered motor still generates this field, and how it affects drag when loaded.
thanks,
-rei
Good questions rei !
I wonder the same, i have some triboelectric stuff ready to see about drag and charging, but too many things came in front. If I do test it, i will post an update.
So far.. it looks like i could use one as a motor and the other.. or more! as generators.. That brings me to another question i am still researching, but i think i will post the question in a different post.
Yes I learned a lot, took also some sideways to get more familiar.. some more successful as others, but interesting all.
One thing stood out for me, I surprised that even my wood influences the forces. That was new for me, as I thinking wood was neutral. But ion charged objects are attracted too ( old dry ) wood as well.
On other thing what got me thinking was that pure water and glass works as well.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F56XXUbWRq0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F56XXUbWRq0)
That should work the other way around as well.
You see.. got distracted again! I like it ; )
Anyway tnx, and I always like those old magazine articles with home experiments!
-
[/size]I just watched your videos with the electrostatic motors. I liked the double rotor because it solves the wobbling of hanging rotors.I am interested in all things electrostatic, motors and generators.I do not understand the Utron, could you point me to some websites or books which explain the principl. Unfortuntely your video about the principle was too steep for me.Greetings, Conrad
Conrad, difficult question, especially because i don not have an electric basis. I've seen some of your posts, different level.
I do however think the principle is universal, no matter the carrier.
I choose the Utron as the one maybe...mayyyyyybeeeee... doable for me at home.
But many configurations are or were around, with or without moving parts.
The best and in my humble opinion only way to get you up to date to the basics is to listen to the man and his assistant himself.
Not an easy hearplay... but well worth it.. all SIX parts ; )
Forget other websites.. explanations, listen to the people themselves and then.. well then.. please post what you think.
I say.. its all there! Some gaps.. sure.. always gaps ; )
So.. if you are still up to it:
Here are the first two.. the rest on the link below.
I advise you to listen before/and read the transcript later.
In their own words:
http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/listen/interviewotistcarr19april1958part1.mp3 (http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/listen/interviewotistcarr19april1958part1.mp3)
http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/interviewotistcarr19april1958part1.html (http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/interviewotistcarr19april1958part1.html)
http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/listen/interviewotistcarr19april1958part2.mp3 (http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/listen/interviewotistcarr19april1958part2.mp3)
http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/interviewotistcarr19april1958part2.html (http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/interviewotistcarr19april1958part2.html)
Still awake? Want more?
http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/otistcarr.html (http://hello-earth.com/otistcarr/otistcarr.html)
I do also have a PDF of the original brochure, unfortunatly ou.com says it is too big.
Maybe you can find it on the web.
It is important, because it is again their OWN words.
Name: "Atoms for Peace"
Frontpage:
PS: Reading up on Walter Russel is highly advised as well.
-
As long as you're getting into the magnetic component of the device, you might want to try testing/replicating this with your Utron (Img Attached: generating a magnetic field via a moving static field).
thanks,
-rei
@rei and Cherryman:
If we go back to the Rowland Experiment in the19th century (demonstrating that a electrostatic charge on a turning disk produces a magnetic field) we will learn that the magnetic field will be 10.000 times smaller that the earth magnetic field. This is the reason why his measurement apparatus was rather complicated and had to be very sensitive. See the attached image.
I doubt that the photo in rei's post was a real experiment (spinning a phonoraphic record with a fan motor). The compass would not be sensitive enough to measure the created magnetic field. But a magnetic field would really be created (just too small to be measured with a conventional compass).
This is no criticism, just a statement of facts from a well known book. (I say this because people are very touchy in these forums concerning known science.)
So, spinning a electrostatically charged disk will only create a very weak electromagnetic field. And such a weak electromagnetic field will only induce a very weak current in a coil. I guess in the order of Micro-Ampere. Heuristically you can deduce that easily because the charges zipping throug a conductor move roughly with the speed of light. How small is the speed of the charges on a spinning disk compared to the speed of light?
Greetings, Conrad
-
@ Conrad : Tnx for that info Conrad. I take it on board.
@ all
Meanwhile some more tests.
I think you will find most of it boring.
Anyway, here they are. I keep forgetting to talk about what i'm doing ; )
A bit of everything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbvlv6MJ5po (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbvlv6MJ5po)
Coil testing : http://youtu.be/GsIRfQ5w59s (http://youtu.be/GsIRfQ5w59s)
-
A bit of everything: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbvlv6MJ5po (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mbvlv6MJ5po)
Coil testing : http://youtu.be/GsIRfQ5w59s (http://youtu.be/GsIRfQ5w59s)
@Cherryman:
From your "bit of everything" Video I see that you are Building some electrostatic motors.
Is the intention to have "something spinning" (which could be done more easily with a cheap little conventional DC motor doing up to 12.000 rpm) or are you also interested in having the spinning disk carrying Hig Voltage charges?
From your "coil testing" video and other videos from you I see that you want "some rotor" turning inside the funnel shaped coil.
Is it important that the rotor (which spins inside the coil) carries High Voltage charges?
What kind of High Voltage source do you use? (To what are the ball-chains connected?)
Greetings, Conrad
P.S. Some electrostatic experiments I did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TmoQFEk8d0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TmoQFEk8d0)
I guess your tests are not about "electro statics"?
-
@Cherryman:
From your "bit of everything" Video I see that you are Building some electrostatic motors.
Is the intention to have "something spinning" (which could be done more easily with a cheap little conventional DC motor doing up to 12.000 rpm) or are you also interested in having the spinning disk carrying Hig Voltage charges?
From your "coil testing" video and other videos from you I see that you want "some rotor" turning inside the funnel shaped coil.
Is it important that the rotor (which spins inside the coil) carries High Voltage charges?
What kind of High Voltage source do you use? (To what are the ball-chains connected?)
Greetings, Conrad
P.S. Some electrostatic experiments I did:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TmoQFEk8d0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TmoQFEk8d0)
I guess your tests are not about "electro statics"?
It's hard to categorize my tests, but yes, Some are definitely about electro statics.
You are right that some of my rotors are nothing more as a simple electrostatic motor, but i needed those little steps to get more familiar with the subject hands on.
You see, for me it is a journey and also a learning experience.
So to get more grip on translating my concept to a working model i am continuously taken side steps to get more understanding of a subject.
Some of the experiments are just for my understanding, some are proofs of concept for my design.
I had some spin up to around 30.000 rpm, with an attached motor. that was for example if my setup would even hold high RPM.
No i know it is capable of doing that, i go to the next step.. etc..etc.
The rotor is a capacitor in my opinion, so it gets charged up, and eventually releases the energy back into the system.
The coils are to force the particles in a direction ( think Cyclotron concept)
The timing and the wiring will bring me some more questions.. but i got a fairly good concept in my mind.
right now i have to get some more grip about the characteristics of capacitors.
]Last: My powersource is ( don't laugh now ) an air ionizer i bought in a second hand shop. After taken te cover of, there was this needle point. So I tested hanging a cable on that needle.. en things started to work.
Just enough for now, to test concepts.. and not get electrocuted all the time.
I have no clue about the amperage, frequency or voltage of the powersource.
I do know its is a DC powersource and my test with an electroscope decided it are negative ions.
Another powersource i use for testing is an AC switching high voltage powersource. It came out of an continues arc lighter, and after i doubled the voltage, it works good for now.
Although i would prefer something where i can adjust frequency or voltage.
Anyway.. I know i'm not very scientific in the normal way.
It's not my goal to become a master electrician, neither do i claim to have a working model, I do like however the search and still believe in the concept!
The little experiments however make me sometimes change insights or minor adjustments.
Work in Progress
PS. Nice vids. Electrostatics are fun.
I will attache a nice picture of a replica of an oldie. The shape is interesting, but the real jewel is in the text!
-
Cherryman, thank you for your answers.
Here a web site that is dedicated to Otist Carr (you probably will know it):
http://bluestarenterprise.com/ (http://bluestarenterprise.com/)
Otist Carr's books, e.g. "Atoms for Peace", can be found here:
http://bluestarenterprise.com/getting-started/ (http://bluestarenterprise.com/getting-started/)
I guess you eventually want to build something like that? (See attached copy from the plans of Otist Carr)
http://bluestarenterprise.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/OTC-X1-plans.pdf (http://bluestarenterprise.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/OTC-X1-plans.pdf)
I listened some time to the Otist Carr radio interviews. Well, I am not intelligent enough to learn enough from them to build a flying craft.
I am sure you are having fun with your builds. I also like to build something from time to time just for the fun of it.
Greetings, Conrad
P.S. the interesting question concerning the nice Franklin motor in your post is: how long does it turn with the stored electrostatic charge? If it is very well built, may be for hours?
-
Cherryman, thank you for your answers.
Here a web site that is dedicated to Otist Carr:
http://bluestarenterprise.com/ (http://bluestarenterprise.com/)
Otist Carr's books, e.g. "Atoms for Peace", can be found here:
http://bluestarenterprise.com/getting-started/ (http://bluestarenterprise.com/getting-started/)
I guess you eventually want to build something like that? (See attached copy from the plans of Otist Carr)
http://bluestarenterprise.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/OTC-X1-plans.pdf (http://bluestarenterprise.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/OTC-X1-plans.pdf)
I listened some time to the Otist Carr radio interviews. Well, I am not intelligent enough to learn enough from them to build a flying soucer.
Greetings, Conrad
Tnx for the links, i do know them, but it could help anyone interested to do some reading up.
Also i like to travel my own path, but of course i use sources as well.
By the way, i'm not building the flying sourcer. Just its power source.
But who knows, it might take off ; )
It's not about intelligence in this case, it's about believe.
-
By the way, i'm not building the flying sourcer. Just its power source.
But who knows, it might take off ; )
It's not about intelligence in this case, it's about believe.
Yes, I heard in the Otist Carr interviews that he is talking about a self energised machine. The spinning cones are supposed to generate their own energy.
Obviously one would want to build one of them first.
About believe: I believe in being skeptical.
Greetings, Conrad
-
Here is a little update.
I dit a lot of small experiments to get more familiar with the subject and electrics. Maybe i post those little experiments when people like it.
But here is where I'm at now.
Wound my first coil ! : )
http://youtu.be/R7ux__fGEFg (https://youtu.be/R7ux__fGEFg)
Sorry i took so long to look at this...
I've been rather busy as of late, preparing for a
Relocation
Umm, not to sound offensive but that coil is all wrong
That is not the instructions Otis gave us.
Take a look at the UFO diagram - notice anything about
That coil?
Step-increments
NOT a smooth cone!!!!
The ratio of #of turns per area is important
This was talked about in great detail by Tesla and Mr. Carr
I suggest you go back and read this information again.
And again, until you grasp the concept.
At the wide end of the coil there is an induction rate
And a #of turns associated with that
At the next step the radius is smaller but there are more #turns
And so on until the very tiny loops at the tip
Square steps, down the cone
Each step having more turns than the one before,
So as to keep a steady induction all the way down.
-
My "totally wrong" coil just give me 3 volts : )
https://youtu.be/tj6sqq0_WE0 (https://youtu.be/tj6sqq0_WE0)
I tested the open coil on voltage while the Utron spins near. I noticed the voltage climbs with the speed, although i feed the Utron DC, i got an ac reading out of the coil. It only works with power on.. so there is somekind of induction going on i guess.
But about it being the wrong coil.. This is exactly the coil i wanted to try first.
But to reassure you, i have some other coil designs in mind.
Rant: Why do i keep those {size} stuff appearing in my texts ?
-
May be we all get it wrong, Ultron is a Robot:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultron)
In the following issue, Avengers #55 (August 1968), the character is identified as Ultron-5, The Living Automaton.
Greetings, Conrad
-
May be we all get it wrong, Ultron is a Robot:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultron (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultron)
In the following issue, Avengers #55 (August 1968), the character is identified as Ultron-5, The Living Automaton.
Greetings, Conrad
Some observations:
Observation one: Although making fun, his mind is triggered, he's doing research
Observation two: Notice the theme: It's alive!
Observation three: See the energy ball in his hand... coincedance?
Observation four: Skeptics are a healthy deviation and unknowingly an attribute of value
C'man : )
-
I am indeed doing some "research".
I tried to find a magnetic field near the rotor of my simple electrostatic motor which is shown in my video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk) (see also the attached screen shot from my video showing the rotor).
Like in the video I was generating the High Voltage with my electrophorus.
My compass was not sensitive enough, which was expected.
I will try it tomorrow while powering an electrostatic motor with a 30 KV power supply.
The 30 KV power supply should create more charge flowing around the rotor and also a faster spinning rotor. May be that will result in a magnetic field strong enough to move my compass.
I will also put some coils near the rotor.
Greetings, Conrad (under the influence of the artficial mind of Ultron)
-
I am indeed doing some "research".
Welcome aboard Sir!
I think this research can benefit a lot of a little use ( a little! ) of your mind!
I tried to find a magnetic field near the rotor of my simple electrostatic motor which is shown in my video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk) (see also the attached screen shot from my video showing the rotor).
Like in the video I was generating the High Voltage with my electrophorus.
My compass was not sensitive enough, which was expected.
I will try it tomorrow while powering an electrostatic motor with a 30 KV power supply.
The 30 KV power supply should create more charge flowing around the rotor and also a faster spinning rotor. May be that will result in a magnetic field strong enough to move my compass.
Great experiment, looking forward to the result. I'm especially curious because 'm not sure yet the magnetic field moves or changes, or just is an amplifier / vector.
I see in your vid there is some resistance when pulling the plates apart, what is that resistance you think ? Vacuum? Charge ? Casmir? How easy would it be to let those plates vibrate?
Would be interesting to exhange one of the plates to a heavily perforated disc, or mesh. That would exclude some vacuum and airdrag effects.
I will also put some coils near the rotor.
I'm very interested about that also. I did some tests because i was not certain if the ionized air, my body or other disturbances where influencing the results. The reason i am happy with the voltage showing up related to the speed is the fact that its proof of SOME influence, yet to determine how or what.
Greetings, Conrad (under the influence of the artificial mind of Ultron)
Greetings back Sir,
( I do however kindly suggest you would drop the "L".. Its obligatory... under the influence of the creative force of the light )
C'man
-
I see in your vid there is some resistance when pulling the plates apart, what is that resistance you think ? Vacuum? Charge ? Casmir? How easy would it be to let those plates vibrate?
Would be interesting to exhange one of the plates to a heavily perforated disc, or mesh. That would exclude some vacuum and airdrag effects.
This resistance to pulling the plates appart is the very well know fact that opposite electric charges attract each other (and like charges repell each other).
Like the capacitor in my "special circuit" (shown near the beginning of my video) the top and bottom steel plates of my electrophorus become charged to a High Voltage which causes the attraction.
The plates or metal foils of any capacitor are attracted to each other once the capacitor gets charged up. It is called electrostatic force and is described by Coulomb's Law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb's_law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coulomb's_law) (basic electrical engineering which I know only little of).
Greetings, Conrad
(Long live UTRON, ULTRON is a total looser!)
-
(Long live UTRON, ULTRON is a total looser!)
Hahaha Briljant ! 8)
PS. I know of Coulombs law.. Would still be interested to see how thats works out with a mesh.
-
I produced two videos with a simple electrostatic motor driven with 15 KV positive pulses from a High Voltage power supply:
Pickup Coil Near Rotor of Electrostatic Motor (Pulses from HV Power Supply)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XLmmCkKnIY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XLmmCkKnIY)
Magnetic Field Near Rotor of Electrostatic Motor (Fail)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idz9z4dgCdQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idz9z4dgCdQ)
For explanations please read the video description.
Greetings, Conrad
-
@Conrad Nice , clean tests!
T1: Compass, i got the same, no results measurable on my compas.
T2: So it's like an antenna? Did you have changes along with the speed of the rotor ?
I did some retest after viewing yours, and some more tests. I got some influence in the air as well.
But I also measured influence of a charged and uncharged rotor near the coil.
I came up to 6 volts with the coil grounded on one side and open on the other ( See vid )
Somehow the voltage is influenced by the speed of the rotor AND if the rotor is charged or not.
I upload another vid.
https://youtu.be/3l5xAefUNa0
My multimeter died just now, first victim of the Utron. : (
-
T2: So it's like an antenna? Did you have changes along with the speed of the rotor ?
https://youtu.be/3l5xAefUNa0 (https://youtu.be/3l5xAefUNa0)
My multimeter died just now, first victim of the Utron. : (
Answer to T2: No, I had no changes with the speed of the rotor, my coil always picked up the 24 kHz pulses. And after switching off the power supply the coil did not pick up any signal although the rotor kept on spinning rapidly for up to 20 seconds (due to inertia).
Answer to your Video https://youtu.be/3l5xAefUNa0 (https://youtu.be/3l5xAefUNa0) : It looks to me that you are also picking up the pulses from your HV power supply with your coil. You can not see that because your multimeter does not show frequency only Voltage which is not reliale because your multimeter is not intended for high frequences and also not for pulses (only for low frequency sine waves with no more than a few hundred Hertz). So, with your multimeter you are like a blind man thinking that the trunk of an elephant is a snake. If you connect one probe of the multimeter to your coil and the other probe is used like an antenna, you get different Voltages depending on how much the air is carrying charge or whether you touch the HV. A multimeter is not the right tool to gain some insight into your contraption.
Answer because of your broken multimeter: no wonder your multimeter is dead, you connected it to High Voltage pulses (you touched the pole and the contact foils of your electrostatic motor with one probe). Utron is a harsh teacher not forgiving mistakes.
Hint: If you ever plan to use an oscilloscope be very careful with the High Voltage. Under no circumstances you should touch the HV with the probe or the ground of the oscilloscope.
Greetings, Conrad
-
Answer to T2: No, I had no changes with the speed of the rotor, my coil always picked up the 24 kHz pulses. And after switching off the power supply the coil did not pick up any signal although the rotor kept on spinning rapidly for up to 20 seconds (due to inertia).
Answer to your Video https://youtu.be/3l5xAefUNa0 (https://youtu.be/3l5xAefUNa0) : It looks to me that you are also picking up the pulses from your HV power supply with your coil. You can not see that because your multimeter does not show frequency only Voltage which is not reliale because your multimeter is not intended for high frequences and also not for pulses (only for low frequency sine waves with no more than a few hundred Hertz). So, with your multimeter you are like a blind man thinking that the trunk of an elephant is a snake. If you connect one probe of the multimeter to your coil and the other probe is used like an antenna, you get different Voltages depending on how much the air is carrying charge or whether you touch the HV. A multimeter is not the right tool to gain some insight into your contraption.
Answer because of your broken multimeter: no wonder your multimeter is dead, you connected it to High Voltage pulses (you touched the pole and the contact foils of your electrostatic motor with one probe). Utron is a harsh teacher not forgiving mistakes.
Hint: If you ever plan to use an oscilloscope be very careful with the High Voltage. Under no circumstances you should touch the HV with the probe or the ground of the oscilloscope.
Greetings, Conrad
Tnx for your replay,
I did however only touch the ground, or after the rotor never a straight connection with the HV source. But maybe i made a mistake somewhere. At least not in the video i did not touch the source directly. It looks like it , but i just held it close to see if there was some interference. But maybe i made a mistake afterwards. ( It still works at the end of the vid ; )
Anyway.. it's still dead... Lesson learned ( could this be a fuse i can fix? )
Greetings C'man
-
I've fried several of these playing around with my Ion generator
Usually there is not enough current to break a fuse.
Capacitors are often threatened, but more often than not
When one of my multimeters starts acting up or goes dead
I found that shorting the terminals to each other, while flipping
Through all of the modes on the dial
Can bring them back to life - or more accurately discharge the hv
Stored inside them that is screwing up the readings or the ability to
display readings at all.
Worth a try before you thrown it away.
Sometimes they just die.
Which is why I use cheap ones to play with hv
-
Sidestep 3874B2 : Just a little thing i noticed before, my wood gets charged.
So i decided to have a little fun : )
https://youtu.be/Izz37tue-vY
-
A wooden stator
I like it
This proves that with an appropriate voltage
Any substance can be used to make a motor
Why?
Because even an insulator becomes conductive
when the voltage potential reaches a certain magnitude.
This opens the door for motors made from plastic or any
other material that has a low cost.
Semiconductors can also be used in this manner
By utilizing their 'breakdown' voltage.
Nice demonstration
-
Sidestep 3874B2 : Just a little thing i noticed before, my wood gets charged.
So i decided to have a little fun : )
https://youtu.be/Izz37tue-vY (https://youtu.be/Izz37tue-vY)
Electrostatic experiments can be surprising. That is why in the 18th century it took them so long to come up with the concept of "conductors" (metals). Electrostatic charges can creep along non-conductors like glass or wood surfaces and can go through the air, which was and still is confusing.
The first electricity which could be reproduced consistently at will was static electricity from an electrophorus (about 1760). The AC generators came much later in the 19th century.
There is this theory that they had batteries (lemon juice, copper and iron electrodes) before Christ in Egypt and Mesopotamia (Bagdad, Iraq) for electrolysis (plating led figurines with gold probably for fraudulent reasons or at least for bragging), but one could doubt that.
So, Cherryman, you are re-living the history of electrostatic research. And you seem to have as much fun as the people in the 18th century. The legend is that Alessandro Volta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Volta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Volta) (and many other noblemen scientists) did his experiments for the amusement of the ladies at court.
Nowadays electrostatic effects are unwanted side effects and only a few do research in this area. And the ladies nowadays need more excitement than a curious scientific experiment.
Greetings, Conrad
-
A wooden stator
I like it
This proves that with an appropriate voltage
Any substance can be used to make a motor
Why?
Because even an insulator becomes conductive
when the voltage potential reaches a certain magnitude.
This opens the door for motors made from plastic or any
other material that has a low cost.
Semiconductors can also be used in this manner
By utilizing their 'breakdown' voltage.
Nice demonstration
It all fits in nicely with Walter Russels theory's 8)
-
Electrostatic experiments can be surprising. That is why in the 18th century it took them so long to come up with the concept of "conductors" (metals). Electrostatic charges can creep along non-conductors like glass or wood surfaces and can go through the air, which was and still is confusing.
The first electricity which could be reproduced consistently at will was static electricity from an electrophorus (about 1760). The AC generators came much later in the 19th century.
There is this theory that they had batteries (lemon juice, copper and iron electrodes) before Christ in Egypt and Mesopotamia (Bagdad, Iraq) for electrolysis (plating led figurines with gold probably for fraudulent reasons or at least for bragging), but one could doubt that.
So, Cherryman, you are re-living the history of electrostatic research. And you seem to have as much fun as the people in the 18th century. The legend is that Alessandro Volta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Volta (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alessandro_Volta) (and many other noblemen scientists) did his experiments for the amusement of the ladies at court.
Nowadays electrostatic effects are unwanted side effects and only a few do research in this area.
Greetings, Conrad
Tnx Conrad,
Yes i dont now much about electricity in detail, but i've done extensive research the last 10 years, in history, energy history, ancient religions and pfff.. too much!
I happen to remember the Volta rumors and if i'm not mistaken he was in a discovery race with another Italian.. Galva? can't remember They would make dead frogs move among others..
Had to be carefull those days not to get burnt for devil worshipping ; )
But i like my little hands on journey now.. and my side steps : )
-
Well... it kind of itched that the little engine was not 100% wood...
So i fixed that:
100% wooden electrostatic engine : https://youtu.be/4UpHnhIcuJg
A worlds first?
-
Some high speed tests...
Not much to add, although it's annoying it keeps want to take off...
https://youtu.be/x6VazksH0T4
-
Any Arduino wizzards around ?
I have a problem with getting an optical RPM counter to work properly.
I have an optical sensor ( see PDF )
Connected to my Arduino Mega
( Digital pin 2 )
But whatever i try.. I get some readings, but not consistent
I tried digital read and interrupts.
Anyone experienced know if this hardware and setup could actually work
-
Well.. i made some progress.
Got the telemetry working, now i need a way to double check the a accuracy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcHWNVpB3CM
-
This may help you visualize what I was trying to say earlier
-
Each "step" should have more turns as you get smaller
There's an exact number, I don't have that info available
at the moment. But Tesla and Carr both write about it.
But hopefully this will give you a starting point for your tests.
The "square geometry" is important
'Slopes' don't work very well
-
Thanks smOkey,
I will keep that in mind and maybe try as well.
Is there a reason stepped coils work better as sloped ones?
-
Small update.
I improved my setup , added some bearings and i made a better motor setup.
Needs some more finetuning.
https://youtu.be/orNHhZZnTRY
-
Some observation i made during all these tests:
Every time i speed up the rpm, the Utron wants to go up..
I know.. i know.. it's probably friction and resonance, vibration, dis-balance.. working the thing up... But still... 8)
Had some problems with the alignment of all 4 bearings in line, I made them adjustable 2D , but tightening and the deviation of the wood makes also some 3D problems.,
I hate permanent bondings, due to i like fast switching of concepts and setups.. but after my bearing kept flying up ... i super glued them in place now. A sad day.
I put some superglue on the sides now.. Had some problems with the alignment of all 4 bearings, not easy!
-
Thanks smOkey,
I will keep that in mind and maybe try as well.
Is there a reason stepped coils work better as sloped ones?
The way Tesla discribed it, which was also echoed by Mr Carr,
Is that the induction of the larger loops is greater than in the
smaller loops, and adding more loops in the smaller dimension
balances this out to minimize losses in the step down.
Thus keeping the induction coefficient the same all the way down
the coil. This causes an increase in field strength ( density).
Having a sloped conical coil causes the change in induction to
exceed the change in field condensation, which weakens the field
in each progressively smaller loop.
I don't have the equations readily available,
But let's assume that 1/2 coil diameter requires
twice as many # of turns. By this analysis, you can see a
proportionality between the two, as inductance is equal.
(Like I said I don't have the equations, so it may not be
as straightforward as this example).
-
@ smOkey tnx, that helps!
@ all, a side step notice :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFFrh-FXE84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFFrh-FXE84)
-
Not much to report, but i made a little raw compilation of ongoing testing.
https://youtu.be/pTYHfqBDEKc (https://youtu.be/pTYHfqBDEKc)
-
@ smOkey tnx, that helps!
@ all, a side step notice :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFFrh-FXE84 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFFrh-FXE84)
Induction polarizes the screw such that it forms a dipole
I mean to say, that there are two magnetic dipoles falling
through the tube.
This double- acting lenz/Lorentz induction shortens the
length of the counter-emf opposing the falling neos.
Think of it as being two magnets, one longer and weaker
than the other. Let's call the outer pole of the neo N,
and the outer pole of the screw S.
The junction between the 2 "magnets" is null and void to
the tube, as the flux is almost entirely pulled into each
magnet at the junction. So you have a S pole falling, inducing
a N field which opposes its' motion. Since the distance from S
pole to N-transition is greater than the distance from N pole to
S-transition, the induced emf in the aluminum tube is longer on
the leading (N) side.
This creates an attraction to the N end of the magnet at a distance
greater than that which induces the countering S pole - with respect
to the falling N pole of the magnet stack.
Because these are permanent magnets, we do not 'see' the internal
energy exchanges. However, if this were set up inside an electromagnetic
motor - we would find that the energy used to create the offset in the lenz
field, is equal to the change in acceleration caused by the offset.
-
In the same way that there is no real "gain" from the change in speed
of the falling magnets.
The field is diverted through the screw, changing the field of
the magnet on the screw-side.
-
i drew this little thing, in case anyone had a hard time following my textual description.
proportions are drawn out of scale, to clearly see the geometric structure of the coil.
the increasing # of turns per step-down is important.
without having the mathematics on-hand, the best approach may be
a direct measurement of resistance between first and last turn of each step.
each step should represent equivalent resistance to the step before and after it.
as well as the beginning and end steps of the conical coil.
and as such, inductance, and capacitance will also be likewise of equivalent proportions.
(assuming that each step of the conical coil is made of the same material)
-
the equation included such variables as:
length of wire, diameter of coil, # of turns, permeability of free space,
as well as a materials constant of the wire (copper in most cases?)
intended to give some value (perhaps inductance?) which would then remain
constant throughout the coil, the only factor being changed was the diameter
and the # of turns, which derived the dimension and # of turns for the next appropriate
step-down from the previous radius, following the basic conical dimensions.
and, depending on the size, there was mention of possibly requiring a "gap" between steps
in order to maintain the perfect ratios, when stepping down to the next set of coils.
I took this to mean, that when calculating the diameter of the next step, it may not be
the diameter of the conical structure, immediately adjacent to the end of the previous step.
and for structural purposes, the next step of the coil began at the point on the cone that matched
the diameter of the coil turns. (some # of mm gap in most small cases)
If anyone has information regarding this equation, and can provide it here, it would be of great value.
I seem to remember Tesla's use of this being buried unfindably in the middle of a very long treatise on
coils and induction, resonance, capacitance, and general electronics physics, cryptically worded in Teslonian fashion.
the source of which, I am not sure.
simple trial-and-error with a multimeter should be able to narrow it down, using the resistance of the coils.
-
I was wondering if i could eliminate brushes by using a high voltage spark as the brushes for a low voltage current.
https://youtu.be/anlrrbpEujU (https://youtu.be/anlrrbpEujU)
Warning: Boring Video!
-
@smOkey
tnx for your input!
Trial and error.. that sounds like me : )
-
i drew this little thing, in case anyone had a hard time following my textual description.
proportions are drawn out of scale, to clearly see the geometric structure of the coil.
the increasing # of turns per step-down is important.
without having the mathematics on-hand, the best approach may be
a direct measurement of resistance between first and last turn of each step.
each step should represent equivalent resistance to the step before and after it.
as well as the beginning and end steps of the conical coil.
and as such, inductance, and capacitance will also be likewise of equivalent proportions.
(assuming that each step of the conical coil is made of the same material)
It does reminds me a little of the Muller coil design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGTfGFtcRiM
-
Some renders
-
Now I decided on the design, its time to make some solid ones.
I decided on casting them in aluminium. As I have never done that before, i chewed up some youtubes and mocked up a proof of concept in the garden today.
I'm actually quit happy with the results.
Not a finished product, but a decent enough proof of concept for me! : )
Anyway, here is my first attempt in melting and casting molten aluminium:
https://youtu.be/qMut-4mFCxU (https://youtu.be/qMut-4mFCxU)
-
Dear Cherryman.
Your last video took me way back in time!
I ran a successful foundry and precision engineering business for nigh on 30 years.
http://www.alynfoundry.co.uk/
I would suggest using Propane gas and a large torch for heating and try to find larger pieces of Aluminium scrap to melt. Using thin sections of scrap makes more " Dross " as the metal prefers to oxidise rather than melt.
Regarding your moulds you could use a metal die for such a simple shape ( if you have a Lathe ) of course. If your sand is too wet you will get steam forming that will ruin the surface finish.
Drop me a PM if you'd like to learn more.
Kind regards, Graham.
-
Dear Cherryman.
Your last video took me way back in time!
I ran a successful foundry and precision engineering business for nigh on 30 years.
http://www.alynfoundry.co.uk/ (http://www.alynfoundry.co.uk/)
I would suggest using Propane gas and a large torch for heating and try to find larger pieces of Aluminium scrap to melt. Using thin sections of scrap makes more " Dross " as the metal prefers to oxidise rather than melt.
Regarding your moulds you could use a metal die for such a simple shape ( if you have a Lathe ) of course. If your sand is too wet you will get steam forming that will ruin the surface finish.
Drop me a PM if you'd like to learn more.
Kind regards, Graham.
Graham, many thanks for your suggestions and offer.
I already did this morning a second try, with some more heat and things learnt from yesterday.
My sand kinda works ok. I siffed some birdcage sand and with just a little moist it works very well for the simpel set up, rather nice smooth surface, and more stable as expected.
I had more problems with indeed oxidation and... Unfortunately my crucible melted also and i lost half of my alu in the fire. My next crucible will be of stainless steel instead of a coffee can ; )
I do not have acces to a lathe or other expensive tools, but i'm also happy to try it the "bush" way and learn along.
I do have a question, I added some salt as "flux" i heard somewhere it helps the liquid being more fluent. is that a good idear ?
Anyway thank you for you offer and expertise.
Here is a little overview of this mornings experimentation.
With respect RK
PS. Nice website and craftsmanship, you must be horrified to see an amateur plowing along, but i have to say it's fun. Fire, molten metals.. creating stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGi8Y95wsto (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGi8Y95wsto)
Here is a picture of the first and second.. It ain't much.. But I see improvement : )
-
I do have a question, I added some salt as "flux" i heard somewhere it helps the liquid being more fluent. is that a good idear ?
PS. Nice website and craftsmanship, you must be horrified to see an amateur plowing along, but i have to say it's fun. Fire, molten metals.. creating stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGi8Y95wsto (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGi8Y95wsto)
Here is a picture of the first and second.. It ain't much.. But I see improvement : )
Dear Cherryman.
Hmmm... Salt not sure about that. A proprietary covering flux would be better but if this is just for a few castings the cost wouldn't be worth it. We used to use a " de gasser " tablet " rabbled " into the melt prior to pouring, this generated Chlorine gas which combined with the absorbed gasses reducing the risk of porosity. Might be the Salt actually de gasses ?
As to your endeavours, on the contrary. It's exactly the same as I over 40 years ago. I made so many mistakes to start with but with each subsequent cast the failures became fewer and fewer.
Cheers Graham.
-
The title says it all !!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6s4Bh0ggVM
:)
-
@Graham,
Woohaa! That's not fair! You make it look wayyyy to simple!! : )
I have to admit a torch looks mighty handy! , Although I do like the charcoal burning, this torch thing seems a bit more easy and controllable.
Lol : I see the Video is of today.. Did I re-spark your casting blood? I hope so!
Cheers Rob.
-
Hi Been busy with some real world stuff lately.
But, here are some nice patents:
TR-3B
https://www.google.com/patents/US20060145019?pageId=111028569981762970673 (https://www.google.com/patents/US20060145019?pageId=111028569981762970673)
Electrostatic space propulsion
https://www.google.com/patents/US20030209637?dq=ininventor:%22John+St.+Clair%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig04SQ3fLTAhWEwlQKHTwcAKQQ6AEIWDAH (https://www.google.com/patents/US20030209637?dq=ininventor:%22John+St.+Clair%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwig04SQ3fLTAhWEwlQKHTwcAKQQ6AEIWDAH)
-
Did not have much time, but the Solid Utron's are almost finished!
(Not a render ; )
-
Some minor tests.
Testing the conductive properties of my Utron design. Half and whole.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMm0y8JzGUo
-
A few more minor tests.
Most of the time i forget filming.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzE9a1XTW0g
-
https://youtu.be/fCQtChE0D0k
-
Counter Rotating Discs electrostatic motor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBG3gLPmrTA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBG3gLPmrTA)
-
Small update:
https://youtu.be/Rg9_0KwemBk
-
Nice setup, simple and smart.
I think that a stable phase relationship between the two discs is necessary and established itself once the discs are manually launched, so that the plates of the elementary capacitors repel and attract each other at the right time when the current is switched on and off through the sliding contacts.
-
A new setup :
https://youtu.be/-JzZuMX_QH4
-
I can not seem to get the inside Voss generator to work. I use poly carbonate plates. Anyone familiar if that would be a problem? I've seen most reports using PVC plates. Or should that be equal ?
Or any other suggestions?
Anyone know if a comb or brushes would make a fundamental difference ?
-
Not happy this time. Can not get figured out why the Voss generator does not work. It is independently running on the inside. But somehow, it does not work and i tried a dozen different tweaks and adjustments. Any suggestions?
https://youtu.be/w9-C7TGlfWw (https://youtu.be/w9-C7TGlfWw)