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Availbale Products, Material- and Service suppliers => Do It Yourself => Topic started by: sm0ky2 on January 23, 2017, 09:08:32 PM

Title: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 23, 2017, 09:08:32 PM
it has been requested that I provide plans to build your own
Electrostatic Generator
This particular machine Is known as a Voss machine
Named after its' inventor.
This also resembles a combo machine know as
A Toepler-Holtz machine.


These machines operate with only 1 spinning disk with collectors
The inductors are located on a stationary disk.
My machine has been modified several times from the original
After several experiments with different plate sizes
And arrangements I have come up with this machine
Which I call my Ion Generator
Featured on my YouTube channel
https://m.youtube.com/user/Sm0ky2 (https://m.youtube.com/user/Sm0ky2)
And presented here in the following hand-drawn plans
The disks can be arranged vertically or horizontally
I chose horizontal to make it easier for me to see everything
that's going on when I change brush locations
But that's just a personal preference it works either way

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 23, 2017, 09:11:54 PM
These are the plans for the modified Voss Machine
If anything in my drawing is not clear or needs further
explaination just ask and I'll do my best.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 23, 2017, 09:22:42 PM
Not sure why it loaded them sideways
But you can d/l the pics and have them for your projects
if you need help figuring out how the brushes go just ask
I can walk you through any problems you encounter
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: TinselKoala on January 24, 2017, 05:42:47 AM
As you can see, uploading huge images wastes bandwidth and also screws up the forum page so that it is way too wide. You have to scroll all the way to the right to see the "reply" button, etc.

Except in the most unusual cases, an image width of 800 pixels is sufficient. If you need to show greater detail in higher resolution, you can crop the section you need to emphasize and show it enlarged to 800 pixels wide.

For your present images, I have rotated them, cropped out unnecessary white space and sized them, in this case, to 1200 pixels wide. There are _many_ different image editing programs that you can use to make images easier to up/download and display on the forum page. I prefer using gimp, which is almost "photoshop" in its capability, is available for all popular operating systems and is free. It takes about 6 mouseclicks to rotate, edit, crop and resize images for easy display.

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: TinselKoala on January 24, 2017, 05:57:47 AM
As far as the design of the machine itself is concerned, the Voss machine was basically redesigned by A.D. Moore into the "Dirod" configuration which avoids some of the deficiencies of the original Voss design. Instead of a disc with sharp-edged sectors which limit charge buildup because of the field concentrations at the edges (also a problem with traditional Wimshurst designs), the Dirod uses a drum with "sectors" made of smooth round rods with polished smooth hemispherical ends. This allows higher voltages (more charge) to build up on the rods before it sprays away uselessly. Also the fixed inductors and output plates are made very smooth with rounded and polished edges. Otherwise the Dirod works by the same principle as the Voss machine. 

In my own Dirod version I use carbon fiber rovings (available from local model-airplane hobby shops) to make the contact brushes for output and neutral structures. These are flexible, durable and do not cause wear against the rotating parts of the machine. And for connection to external loads, capacitors, experiments, etc. I have found that ball chain (aka bead chain) makes excellent "wires" that will not leak as badly as ordinary small-diameter flexible wire.

Anyone experimenting with electrostatic machines should be aware of two excellent books on the construction and use of the machines: "Electrostatics: The Dirod Manual" by AD Moore, and "Homemade Lightning" by RA Ford. For more advanced reading, Oleg Jefimenko's book "Electrostatic Motors" is full of theory and experiments and designs.

(Why is this post so wide? It is because of the superwide photos posted up above. This width problem will continue until a new page begins, or until the superwide photos are edited to make them 1200 pixels wide or less.)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 24, 2017, 07:16:14 AM
Thanks Tk for the invaluable info


What led me to this machine was mostly convenience
In the ease of construction, and only 1 moving part.


Also the open view of my setup allows me to use the machine
in several configurations and perform all kinds of experiments


For instance: I recently removed all of the collector plates
Making a Voss-Bonetti machine.  It was finicky and I had to
reverse the direction of the disk to make it work but it worked
and as far as I have found it was the only one of its' kind.
Interesting little thing but susceptible to humidity


So I have now changed to 16-plates on the collector disk
And I sealed the edges of all the plates with an acrylic
Fingernail polish.


Sorry about the inconveniently large photos
I'm doing this off my IPhone until I get internet in the new
Location


Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 24, 2017, 08:16:09 AM
Here's the new video using 14-plates
https://youtu.be/gDQgvEKJNgo (https://youtu.be/gDQgvEKJNgo)


The size of the plates decreased thereby decreasing the
Machines internal capacitance
For this reason I had to separate the 6-plate concentric
capacitor into two 3-plate capacitors.
The external capacitance is too high with the 6-stack
And the machine reverts back to the 1st mode of operation
Which is undesirable for my experiments
With the smaller external capacitance the machine operates
in the 2nd mode, with consistent high frequency electrical output.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: gotoluc on January 24, 2017, 04:26:36 PM
Hi Sm0ky2


Thanks for your new topic.


In your new video you reach down and click a switch. Does that switch power off your motor that turns the Voss disk?


Luc
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 25, 2017, 08:04:37 PM
Yes. At that point in the clip no power is going to the
motor that powers the machine.
Flywheel momentum will continue to produce electricity
Until the wheel slows down from friction.
The wheel is not balanced in that video, and the brushes
as they were configured caused a lot of friction, so it
came to a stop rather quickly. When everything is running
smoothly I can flip the switch and it will cruise along for
over 1 minute, producing sparks the whole time.


Shorting the motor while this is going on (using as a generator)
Slows the wheel quickly.



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 25, 2017, 08:23:59 PM
This machine looks counter intuitive when you first
Get it set up


And most diagrams show the brush locations sort of
in the wrong places.
Which is why I modified mine


So what I will describe it how my machine works
In relation to the above build.


These machines work opposite from a whimshurst
Or the Bonetti machine. Those machines go like:
Neutralize -> induct -> pick-up


The Voss (and my Ion Generator) works like:
Pick-up -> neutralize -> induct


This is because you pick up the direct charge
From the inductor plate. This is transferred to the
Collectors from the brushes (A&B in my diagram).


Where-as the formor machines induce and pick-up
On the same plates.


The advantage of this is to ensure maximum charge
On every plate as it passes the pick-up brushes.
The inductor plate carries way more charge than
Each single collector plate can hold.


The collector, being next in line, readily receives the
charge because it is repelled away from the collector plate
By the like-charge of the larger inductor plate.


It is immediately after the pick-up that you want to
Neutralize the charges.
So that you maximize the surface area of the inductor
plate over which you are inducing.


The other advantage of this system is that it does not
"arc-over" the surface of the disk like Whimshurst machines
are quite fond of.



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: shylo on January 26, 2017, 10:13:42 AM
Hi Smokey, I don't know much about these machines,
It looks like there is a large space between the 2 plates
I mean the rotor and stator, would closer mean more output?
Also what type of metal foil do you use?
Last ,will this type of machine work at lower rpm's,
because I noticed in the video that as it slowed the arcing also slowed.
I have a whole role of 1/2 inch stainless steel tubing,
maybe I could cut it into 3 or 4 inch lengths, put them in a stator
around a rotor of plates.
Interesting thanks artv
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Grumage on January 26, 2017, 01:16:04 PM
Dear Sm0ky2.

Many thanks for opening this thread, it was I that spoke to Chet.

I have a couple of possible tips to improve your device.

When I built the T-1000 motor I had the rotor placed horizontally, like yours, with the drive motor underneath. On one occasion I turned it through 90 deg and to my amazement the the current dropped by over 20 mA! The bearings were working in their proper manner. Less friction.

The second idea, pure conjecture, what about placing a laminated sector, i.e. another foil with insulator on top of the first foil. Providing a small contact to the lower plate? In other words a parallel plate capacitor.

I hope to copy your design when the weather gets better, I have a massive selection of plastic sheet off cuts, what material would be best suited?

I have.... Polycarbonate, Polypropylene, PVC etc....

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Grumage on January 26, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
Going to keep posting until page 2.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Grumage on January 26, 2017, 02:53:59 PM
Another?
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Grumage on January 26, 2017, 02:54:45 PM
Bigger separation.



















Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Grumage on January 26, 2017, 02:56:03 PM
Another might do the trick?

Ah, that's better. I needed a telescope to read my iPad!!  :)

Cheers...... :)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Grumage on January 26, 2017, 03:15:00 PM
A question for TinselKoala.

What would happen if we were to place a second rotor inboard of the fixed, i.e. A rotor either side?

I assume that the polarity would change?

Kind regards, Graham.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: TinselKoala on January 26, 2017, 09:09:41 PM
A question for TinselKoala.

What would happen if we were to place a second rotor inboard of the fixed, i.e. A rotor either side?

I assume that the polarity would change?

Kind regards, Graham.

Check Antonio's excellent website. He shows many variations of the basic Voss/Toepler type machines.
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/voss2.html (http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/voss2.html)
He also has some clear explanations of how these machines actually work.

Not double, but I think this one is really cute:
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cyl1.jpg (http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cyl1.jpg)
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cylind.html (http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cylind.html)

And here's an interesting idea:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/266345803/sparkit-miniature-electrostatic-generator (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/266345803/sparkit-miniature-electrostatic-generator)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Cherryman on January 26, 2017, 09:46:57 PM

Not double, but I think this one is really cute:
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cyl1.jpg (http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cyl1.jpg)
http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cylind.html (http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/cylind.html)



Tnx for the Cute one! I'm trying some things along those lines myself, this helps!
 
(edit: Why is this forum always messing up my text sizes, with al kinds of unwanted inserts ?? )
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 28, 2017, 09:09:37 PM
Closer distance between disks does increase induction
My build has a large gap to keep my wobbly disk from
scraping the stationary disk.


The disk with two large inductors does not move
I modified this piece from the original design
which had two small rectangular plates
The larger curved plates give me more charge


RPM - yes this is a high-rpm device, the faster it turns
the higher the frequency of the output. It is literally
how many times the rotating plates cross the pick up
brushes per second.


Larger rotating collector plates give more charge at a
lower frequency, while smaller plates give less charge
at a higher frequency.


Whimshurst/Bonetti machines are designed to operate
at a slower RPM.  (Around 30 or so usually).
Although I did have the Voss-Bonetti going at much
higher speeds.



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 28, 2017, 09:20:39 PM
@Grumage


Thank you for your post and interest in these machines


As TK mentioned, the induction process works in all kinds
of configurations, including cylindrical devices.


While my build is intended to be simple, for beginners to
Build and test this technology - I have experimented
with and studied others musings about the ideas you
mention.


You can indeed increase the charge on the inductors by
Adding a secondary capacitative plate behind it.
In theory the same could be done on the rotating plate.


Adding a second rotating plate opposite the stationary
inductor, is more beneficial as it results in a doubling of
The collected charge.
This can be extended to a long shaft including many plates
Connecting the output in parallel provides a large current.


There really is no limit to the complexities of these machines
Other than the force required to turn the pieces.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: shylo on January 30, 2017, 10:40:49 AM
Hi Smokey, The reason I was asking is because my rotor will self run for 1/2 hour.
I was hoping to add the 2 plates to the rotor and just put the stationary next to it to collect the charge to help top up my caps , to extend my run time.
Just not sure how to incorporate this with my rotor.
artv
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Grumage on January 30, 2017, 05:42:17 PM
Hi Smokey, The reason I was asking is because my rotor will self run for 1/2 hour.
I was hoping to add the 2 plates to the rotor and just put the stationary next to it to collect the charge to help top up my caps , to extend my run time.
Just not sure how to incorporate this with my rotor.
artv

Dear artv.

Video please !!    :)

We can always fast forward !!   ;)

Cheers Graham.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: conradelektro on January 30, 2017, 07:36:39 PM

Since the topic is electrostatic machines, I want to draw attention to the electrophorus which is the most simple electrostatic machine.

I could find a few little modifications (HV diodes and HV capacitors) which render the electrophorus a little bit more useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLCp68VX7NE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLCp68VX7NE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzoUiZnR5QA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzoUiZnR5QA)

Note, the little modifications turn the electrophorus into a continuously working electrostatic machine (by moving the top plat up and down a few millimetres) producing a series of positive spikes (lifting to top plate) and then negative spikes (putting the top plate down again). No opening and closing contacts are neccessary (as in the original electrophorus which needs "grounding" of the top plate after every "stroke").

The idea is to eventually come up with a "turning" electrostatic machine which avoids brushes and contacts. Remember, the mother of all electrostatic machines is the electrophorus. All turning electrostatic machines are some sort of "doublers" which add up small charges.

Greetings, Conrad

P.S.: I want to repeat what Tinselkoala has writen, the web site http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html (http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/electrostatic.html) is the best collection of electrostatic machines one can find at the moment. It will take you months if not years to learn what is offered. You will spare yourself years of research by studying this web site. It contains more or less all the knowledge about electrostatic machines there is so far. Also references to many papers.

Research essentially stopped in the 60ies with the Van de Graaff Generator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_de_Graaff_generator). HV diodes, capacitors and even HV transistors nowadays allow for Voltage doubler circuits (instead of electrostatic machines) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler) if one needs High Voltage as in magnetic resonance imaging.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Cherryman on January 30, 2017, 09:22:29 PM
If Smokey is ok with it, we talk about electrostatic some more.


Here is a nice interview with John Trump ( Yup, "the Uncle" )
( Who worked with Van der Graaff as a mentor ! )


They briefly touch the subject of using electrostatic engines as a power-source in space.
But it look's like the interviewer does a subtle job of putting that to rest very quickly.


https://youtu.be/wozw24RACZ8?t=27m56s (https://youtu.be/wozw24RACZ8?t=27m56s)


Interesting stuff. 


( I do recommend for the curious mind you see this whole interview )
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 31, 2017, 07:49:45 AM
In the early days of these machines they recognized
That x-rays and other 'effects' could be initiated with
The high potentials they could achieve.


They died in the medical industry and didn't really
resurface, except as toys and novelty items in science
museums, until recently.


Here we are some 200 yrs more advanced in all kinds
of technologies which give us endless things to play with
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 31, 2017, 07:52:05 AM
The last generation to experiment with this stuff was
Doing things that sound like science fiction even today.


I think this technology can lead to things we have
Never seen before.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: shylo on January 31, 2017, 11:01:50 PM
Hi Graham, Not really much to see ,just a magnet rotor turning.
I have to pre-charge the cap banks by spinning the rotor by hand for a minute.
If I connect a load, 36 led's from a flashlight, it only runs 20 minutes.
If I give it a 30 second spin every fifteen minutes, it will run , I'm guessing for as long as I'm willing to spin it.
The rotor charges the cap banks, but I lose with every rotation, if I can add this it may help.
Do you collect charge from the inductors(stationary plates)?
Or is it the moving plates|?
The neutral bar , why not just collect there?
Not sure ,I'm understanding it.
Thanks artv   
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 31, 2017, 11:46:20 PM
Charge is transferred from the stationary (inductor) plates.
To the moving (collector) plates.
It is picked up from the collector plates as they pass the brushes
The neutral bar then gets rid of excess charge on the plates
So they can induce further charge on the inductor plates.
Without the neutral bar you lose the difference between
What is left on the collectors after "pick-up", and the charge
held by the larger inductor plates.


The Voss functions without the neutral bar, just not as well.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Cadman on June 26, 2017, 03:29:30 PM
Sm0ky2,

I have been inspired by your Voss machine and I'm in the process of building an influence machine similar to yours.

My build is coming along nicely but I'm having a little trouble finding a suitable low drag motor to drive it with.
Would you be so kind as to tell me what motor you used?

Thank you,
Cadman
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Vladokv on July 02, 2017, 10:29:59 PM
I am fascinated with electrostatic machines. So I made simplified Voss machine by myself. And painted it nicely blue and white :)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Vladokv on July 16, 2017, 11:41:59 PM
Video of Volta hailstorm and Voss machine I had made https://youtu.be/i1uERqYnEv8
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: gotoluc on July 17, 2017, 02:08:13 AM
Very nicely done Vladokv


Thanks for sharing


Luc
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Vladokv on July 19, 2017, 11:53:26 PM
Later I will make other electrostatic tools to. Leaf electroscope may be next. Or something else. Suggestions are welcomed. There is no active projects at moment
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Cadman on July 20, 2017, 03:35:29 PM
Later I will make other electrostatic tools to. Leaf electroscope may be next. Or something else. Suggestions are welcomed. There is no active projects at moment

Hi Vladokv,

Here are some good tools to replicate.

http://www.coe.ufrj.br/~acmq/hvmeasurements/

And a video of some of these in action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7r3h7IC8LWY

Regards

Cadman
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: ramset on July 20, 2017, 04:11:28 PM
Cadman
very nice indeed !!

Nothing quite like a good measuring tool for gauging progress.


respectfully
Chet
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Magluvin on July 22, 2017, 04:02:42 PM
$40

https://www.banggood.com/Wimshurst-Static-Machine-Physics-Electrostatic-Generator-Electricity-Tesla-p-1120844.html?currency=USD&utm_source=criteo&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=all&utm_campaign=electronics-US&utm_design=1

Mags
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Vladokv on July 27, 2017, 11:05:47 PM
I made big Wimschurst machine. Its big, strong, and kicking ass how it works. Workhorse of many experiments. But I always liked simplicity. Because of that, I like so much simple design - like Voss machine
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: TinselKoala on July 29, 2017, 03:13:59 PM
Even simpler:

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 15, 2018, 02:55:16 PM
Sm0ky2,

I have been inspired by your Voss machine and I'm in the process of building an influence machine similar to yours.

My build is coming along nicely but I'm having a little trouble finding a suitable low drag motor to drive it with.
Would you be so kind as to tell me what motor you used?

Thank you,
Cadman


I have been using small (brushed) dc motors. Hobby type.
I look for the smallest one that will turn the wheel
Without a lot of current draw.


it is best to get the wheel as free spinning as possible

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 15, 2018, 03:18:39 PM
I want to talk a little about a phenomenon I call “charge drift”
It is a functionality of electrostatic induction (electric charge induction)
and the potential consequences of it. (no pun intended)


To try an explain this to you, I need to present this in relativistic terms.
I do not prefer the term “scalar waves”, because there are mathematical
inconsistencies in these theories. While the waves of energy being discussed
are one and the same, my interpretation of the events is not in conformity
with scalar theories.


Ok so, when you think about these machines, we assume some value of
‘neutral potential’, a sort of 0-volt state, between each of the two capacitive
charges. We usually reference this to earth-ground, or an average electrical state
of the environment. But what happens when we don’t?


to the machine, this does not matter.
the machine sees the ‘center-point’ charge as 0 volts or equipotential between the
two potential differences. This is irrespective to our relative potential to the neutral charge.
The neutral charge itself can ‘drift’ far from our potential.
Meaning it can be positive or negatively charged compared to us.


We still maintain the potential difference of the machine.
If the machine produces a 100kv difference, this does not change.
However, when the neutral-charge has a potential to us,
let’s say this is +100kv, then our referenced potential to the + terminal is 200kv
Our reference to the -terminal will be (almost) nothing.


And this condition can arise in any variation within the capacitance of the
neutral-circuit.


this reference potential can drift further from us than the potential between the
two main capacitors of the machine.


When this gets above some value (+/-) ~3Mv/m^2, it can send out an
electric field propagation (wave) of very high potential, as an expanding planar
phenomenon, ionizing anything in it’s path.

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 16, 2018, 01:34:57 AM
The effect originates along the plane of rotation.
With vertical oriented disks, as in the standard Whimshurst
The planar wave is vertical, and expands horizontally with distance
from the machine.


With horizontal oriented disks, such as in my modified Voss
the wave is horizontal, and expands vertically with distance.


With a cylindrical machine, the wave propegates from the ends of the cylinder.
and expand radially with distance.


There is a sonic effect as it passes, the pressure can both be felt and heard.
Metal objects (such as aluminum) struck by the wave, become highly charged,
and begin crackling briefly as it passes.


This is by far the most fascinating effect I have observed from the electric machines.
And have spent many sleepless nights attempting to replicate and study this effect.
In an effort to better understand its’ causes and potential applications.


Which has led me to the theory of Charge Drift.


I believe this is the same mechanism that drives the ridiculous charges in storm clouds.
As we know, the potential between top and bottom of the cloud, is much much less than the
‘net’ potential between the Earth and cloud.
I believe this to be the charge drift effect.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 16, 2018, 03:43:43 PM
Earlier in the thread I touch on a topic of the modes of operation of electric machines.
I’m rementioning now for those who wish to experiment with charge drift and the
associated waves of atmospheric disturbance.


These machines have multiple “capacitances”
The most commonly considered is the value of the Leyden jars.
Less talked about are the internal capacitances of the machine itself.
Each sector, plate, pin, etc. will hold some quantity of charge.
Mostly controlled by the surface area.
And, each according to their function, the machines will produce an internal charge,
in relation to the internal capacitances, over the time of operation.


we will now explicitly discuss rotating machines, as I am not prepared to present the
‘electrophorus’ type example, or linear-friction machines, or many others at this time.
my studies of charge drift have been limited to rotating machines up to this point.


The mode of operation that I have found best for studying this effect is that in which the
machines output is the production of the machine.
Not many people operate their machines in this way.


The standard mode of operation is the build-up of charge over time, adding up to a large
discharge, after many cycles.
This is because the Leyden jars have a greater capacitance than the internal capacitance
of the machine. The output is stored in the jars cycle after cycle, until a desired charge is
accumulated. While charge drift can and does sometimes occur in this mode, it may not be
advantageous to use this mode to replicate the effect. I have found it to be much more
difficult.


The other mode of operation allows for a direct output from the machine by allowing the
internal capacitance of the machine to exceed (or replace) the capacitance of the Leyden jars.
In leymans terms: the spark produced is directly from the machine in real time.
In this mode of operation we do not wait for charge to accumulate, but allow it to flow with the
natural cycles of the machine.
The frequency of discharge in this mode of operation is simply: n(rpm)/60
Where n is the number of sectors or plates/pins on the machine that induce a charge each
rotation.
In a machine with multiple rotating parts, the value of n is 1/2 the actual count (in most cases)
For instance, in a Whimshurst machine it would be the count of sectors on only one disk,
not both. since they are ‘paired’ in the machines operation.


The Bonetti is a more complicated analysis, as the value of n changes depending on surface conditions
of the dielectric surface, contaminants in the air (dust) and accumulating charge densities on its surface.
in a ‘clean room’ this can be limited to only charge densities, however the value of n remains inconsistent.
In an environment of equally dispersed dust and airborne contaminants n is more easily stabalized.
Also the placement of the neutral circuit can help stabilization of n, and coincidentally the output freq.


So we have our machines operating in direct output mode, functioning primarily on its internal capacitance.
The second condition we want to create is a large capacitance of the neutral circuit.
Many of these machines (in their final form) already incorporate a neutral circuit, neutralizing rod, etc.
If your design does not, simply analysis of machines that do can lead you to a method of adding this to
your machine.


This gives us an exaggerated voltage-bias which we can allow to occur naturally or cause to occur by
introducing assymetry to our designs.
Many Leyden jar designs have a secondary plate (outer) which are often connected to the same on the
other jar. We can connect our neutral circuit to this and equalize the machines neutral circuit to one value.
Or simply remove the Leyden jars all together, and increase the capacitance of our neutral circuit by
increasing its surface area or using a single Leyden jar charged by the neutral circuit.


Remember the neutral circuit is the 0-volt reference of the machines potential.
It’s potential relative to our 0-volt reference is irrelevent to the machines operation.
This voltage-bias (when not = 0) is the basis of charge drift.

And can be tested by discharging the neutral circuit to our 0-volt reference.
Or with an electrometer or similar charge-detection device.



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 06, 2019, 09:54:06 PM
Lit up the new machine today so I figured it was time to give you guys an update


I took the 2-dimensional (flat disk) design and applied 3rd-dimensional physics
Allowing for the development of a fully functional concentric  quadrupolar machine


But before I was able to do that....

I Had to go on a little on a little adventure in materials physics to discover the true reason
my modified version of Voss’ machine runs “backwards”.


When I got to Texas I learned that “everything is bigger here”.
So, why not my Voss?
So I set off to build the biggest Voss on earth.
Turns out I can’t, so I build the biggest Voss our construction industry allows.
That is: a 4x8 sheet of acrylic cut into 2x 4-ft disks.
It was a nice machine, ran amazingly balanced despite my shotty workmanship
But it wasn’t able to operate with my modifications.
It only worked as a normal Voss or double toepler-holtz


Which didn’t serve the purpose of my high energy physics research
The difference between an influence machine or electric induction machine
and an Ion Generator
Is the mode of operation


And it has to do with the potential reference


But why was I able to do this with my older machines and not the new one?
It came down to the type of acrylic I was using.
Long ago when my family owned an acrylic company, we had a special kind of plastic.
It was not your normal plexiglass, it was the old Lexan recipe


One is an insulator, like most machines are made from.
The other is insulative, but is also a dielectric charge carrier


And example between the two types of plastic
If you apply a charge on one side of a normal insulator
You can attract oppositely charged objects to it
Say a piece of styrofoam
Once the charge goes away, the styrofoam falls.
And there is uniform charge distribution


With a charge carrier, point charges can exist indefinitely in the surface of the materials
These materials has to be deionized and come with special paper coatings


This is the type of material necessary for my modifications to work.
And the reason the machines run backwards.
You see, there is another charge layer on the surface of the actual insulator.


The new machine is capable of, not only a variable capacitance, but can be set into an oscillating
pattern of increasing and decreasing. electric potential, not unlike an A/C magnetic generator.


I will have photos and videos to share as soon as I clean this mess up.
I turned it on for the first time this weekend, and it actually WORKs!!!
applying new physics is way more fun than sitting around theorizing


I need to secure a few parts to make it more mobile, and seal things in to increase the tolerance
there’s corona leaking out everywhere



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 07, 2019, 06:10:30 PM
Just got done applying an acrylic coat to the machine
Sealed in the outer charge plates and the edges of the
inductors around the cylinder.


Figured I would give you guys a couple teardown photos
I can’t show you the inner plates because the cylinder is sealed
But it’s basically like if you were to put a second set of plates
on the opposite side of the disk, so there is 2x the induction.


Because the ‘disk’ is folded around its’ axis, this 2-ft cylinder is
the equivalent to a 4-ft disk.
And because it’s a dual (parallel) machine, it’s the same as having
2x 4-ft machines.


Here’s photos of the outer plates and the outer cylinder w/ plates removed
The cylinder sits on top a fidget spinner, driven by a small dc motor
Runs at 4v 200mA



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: conradelektro on December 08, 2019, 07:00:38 PM
Very simple electrostatic machines:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TmoQFEk8d0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLCp68VX7NE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=notE4ugcgvk


Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 08, 2019, 09:52:14 PM
Thnx for the resources Conrad.




The machine I built is an advancement upon the original technology
Having 4 concentric charge-zones amplifies the output current significantly
The operating voltage is low due to machine tolerances (spacing of parts, insulation, etc)
But it puts out enough current to cause involuntary convulsions when touching the plates or wires.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 10, 2019, 06:14:08 PM
Update: Ion Generator 3.0 (video below)


I have insulated the plates fairly well now.
upgraded the contact brushes


Still toying with where to place them for optimal performance


Video below is running without the ‘neutral’ connection
Wires are moved away from the cylinder to disable it.
Capacitors have also been removed to draw current directly from
the machine.
(the noise is just the camera picking up RF from the sparks, it actually
  runs very quietly)


https://youtu.be/zBu_-MEoPd8 (https://youtu.be/zBu_-MEoPd8)

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 10, 2019, 06:17:41 PM
I’m going to have to swap out the terminals


Over the course of 3 hours it has completely
flattened the pointy tip on my electroscopic probe.
Or maybe swap them around,.....
It’s only eating away at the left side, the right terminal
is still perfectly sharp point.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 11, 2019, 05:52:22 PM
I have ran into several stability issues.


First: Faraday Drag
This is written about concerning the homopolar motor
but due to the low currents involved, I never observed
the phenomenon with my smaller machines.
I can now attest to direct observation of “electric friction”.
With the brushes in non-contact, the electricity slows down
the rotor when I draw a large amount of current.
This causes a change in rotational speed and subsequently a
change in output current and frequency.


With the induction ‘turned off’, the motor spins up wildly out of control
switch it on and put the output dead short across a load and it stops the motor.








Second: charge densities are so great that the entire volume
of air around the machine is polarized.
Especially when I limit air-flow
Both sides are beyond the break down potential up to 10 inches
from the back side of the outer plates.
Charged capacitors and Leyden jars will self-discharge in this airspace.
There is also breakdown of the insulator(s), so that will have to be addressed.
The pick-up terminals occasionally arc to the plates, which causes a drop in
potential, and affects output sparkgap consistency.
Sometimes losing all charge and having to amp back up, which takes 2-3 seconds.




And 3rd (uncertain):
But I think at times this thing is messing with, not only my house,
but the entire power grid down the street, everything flickers during
certain experiments?
I swapped out the dc power supply, running on 9v @200mA
Then I decreased the current by adding a few 130 Ohm resistors
in parallel to cap the top speed. Think I’m up to 130/7 now, trying to find
that Goldilocks resistance.


At best, I’m getting 10-20 minute run times of what I would call
“consistent operation”, that basically means to my human perception
there is no discernible change in output current, voltage, or frequency.
Then there’s a ‘hum’, a slowing down, and a recharging.
Or just a silence, then a whole lot of electric buzz
Before returning to normal operation.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 11, 2019, 06:41:23 PM
Someone in the other energy group was asking about
my machines “running in reverse”.
Apparently there was some confusion about how it can induce
with the polarities switched like I do.


So I wanted to take a moment and clarify what I mean when I say
“running in reverse”
what is important here is not the reversal of polarities
But in how the charge is flowing through into and out of the device.


In a standard old-world induction machine: electricity is induced by moving
opposite charges past one another and sending the excess induced charge
out to the terminals.


My machines run in reverse:
Charges are induced on the large plates by passing LikE charges past one another
with a dielectric charge zone of opposite polarity between them.
The charge being picked up by the terminal brushes comes directly from the plates
via the plate brushes, then is amplified before it is picked up.
That’s why I don’t need a neutral bar.
Current isn’t flowing “from” the device, the device draws current “from the environment”
by maintaining a potential at the terminals.
The environment is constantly trying to balance out the charges on the plates.


I can run two independent (and opposite) current streams from almost any object
to either terminal.
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 15, 2019, 07:36:15 PM
I made a little 12 min discussion video to try and explain
the Ion Generator technology.


Hopefully this will help those interested to understand the machine
Before I get too far into the new model, as one would need the basics
to move onto the more advanced machine.


https://youtu.be/W_Q7erF1UEw (https://youtu.be/W_Q7erF1UEw)


If anyone would like help replicating the modified Voss experimental test machine
I can walk you through any issues you may have.


I will post detailed plans of the new Ion Generator 3.0
Once I have sourced the parts for the new build.

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 16, 2019, 03:44:08 AM
Update on my progress::


I added a new insulation layer to the large plates
And recovered with with a fresh layer of aluminum duct tape


Balanced the cylinder a little better and
repositioned the plates as close as I could without scraping


Switched back to the low friction brushes
And adjusted the resistance to get a steady speed


Then adjusted the spark gap until the machine stabilized.


Here’s a video of the first test run, using 4” spheres
The spheres double as capacitors,
Don’t worry this one is only 45 secs


https://youtu.be/ID2hKBlNiCQ (https://youtu.be/ID2hKBlNiCQ)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: Corton on December 16, 2019, 03:51:14 AM
Nice Work  8)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 16, 2019, 06:02:34 PM







Number One


Take us to Impulse Power


https://youtu.be/ZFVlfwNlZAo (https://youtu.be/ZFVlfwNlZAo)


https://youtu.be/WOyCS2pQanc (https://youtu.be/WOyCS2pQanc)


There you have it, proof of concept.
The Ion Generator powering an Ion Propulsion Engine
9v @ 181mA DC
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 18, 2019, 07:00:25 PM
Found a new type of thruster on youtube
Uses a magnet, works WAY better


In this video I’m using a spark gap throttle controller


https://youtu.be/t-2qZJfM2ps (https://youtu.be/t-2qZJfM2ps)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 18, 2019, 07:51:50 PM
Once I got the parameters into a range I felt was acceptable
I cleaned the machine up a bit. Shortened the cables and insulated them.


Installed a couple of optional features for the next series of tests


And I made a “walkthrough” video, so you can get an idea of how the machine works
And what all these pieces are for.


The internal load-balancing capacitors and the parallel sparkgap are removable
Those are there for a series of organic crystal tests


https://youtu.be/p4XpDVsAGkw (https://youtu.be/p4XpDVsAGkw)


Not only is my technology scalable, but multiple machines can be connected in tandem
To achieve greater energy densities than a modern day particle accelerator
At a fraction of the cost.




Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 19, 2019, 06:51:38 AM
I found the pick-up location for the neutral circuit.
It was outside of the zone I expected it to be in.
Actually just under the plates.


So I did away with that funny looking crossbar underneath
and drew the neutral cables out onto their own circuit
So I can adjust the capacitance independently.


This prototype being somewhat ‘janky’, I need precise control
over as many parameters as possible to stabilize the induction
to its’ maximum, with minimal electric-drag.


I have locked the input to a low maximum value
So the less Faraday drag I have, the higher the RPM
and the higher the available current/time.

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 19, 2019, 07:50:13 AM
I’ve been performing experiments to figure out why the
magnet ion thruster is so much more powerful than the others


It turns out high voltage current doesn’t like being in a magnetic field
it tries its’ best to leave or at least travel through a path where the field
is the weakest.


For these ring magnets, that’s right through the center
so it a sense, it works like a jet nozzle for Ions.
But it also works like the gridded ion thruster, if you electricify the magnet.


What is fascinating is that we can combine both technologies
Using a magnetic ion beam focuser AND the Ion grid accelerator
we can have significant thrust with minimal input.
We can then combine this with injection of an ionizing medium for even further increased thrust.
(using oxygen for terrestrial applications works, but a heavier ion works better in space)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 20, 2019, 01:51:22 AM
I whipped up an ad-hoc version of Paul Baumann’s
“Perforated capacitors”


After testing a few different options, I found that spacing is important
You don’t want sparks to jump the gap between plates
You want them to be just outside the spark range for maximum ion flow
It appears to be a voltage converter of sorts
What’s coming out of the outer plate is a low voltage



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 21, 2019, 05:13:30 PM
Constructed the new ion thruster
This one, I combined the magnetic thruster from India
(which I upgraded)
And the gridded Ion thruster from NASA
together, the double-accelerator rocket produces
incredible thrust for the input power (>18 mW)


Here is a video showing the thruster, and the first test clip.


Northstar MK1 Ion Impulse Rocket


https://youtu.be/In4W9LNMScQ (https://youtu.be/In4W9LNMScQ)


https://youtu.be/SR9PnawxLRM (https://youtu.be/SR9PnawxLRM)



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 21, 2019, 07:25:11 PM
Dual Northstar rockets
With a new experimental Ion Emitter






https://youtu.be/D0sifJKeb_Q (https://youtu.be/D0sifJKeb_Q)
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 22, 2019, 05:33:42 AM
It appears our friend Paul Baumann was right after all :)


But before I get to testatikification of my machine......
I want to run his voltage converter in reverse (pinky to lip)


It works both ways which is more exciting that lighting a
mountaintop city in Switzerland....


I have a suspicion that my machine not only has applications
in space travel, but in high-energy physics as well.


So my next quest is to re-engineer Paul’s voltage converter.
To maximize its amplification power.
Then i’ll Give you guys some test results when I’m done.

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 22, 2019, 09:52:12 AM
I have this thing powering the lights in my lab right now
Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 22, 2019, 05:03:26 PM
I want to talk about the magnetic bucking coil capacitors
Found on the giant horseshoe magnets in front of the Testatika.


This can be done using a ring magnet, with coils on each side
And is more efficient.


Paul uses a fancy word like “electron cascade generator”
Mumbo jumbo, hoopla....


What that is is an inductive plate capacitor
Wherein the two outer plates are the only ones connected.
The internal plates are charged inductively.
With a ring magnet set-up coiled plate capacitors can be used
It doesn’t have to sit in the magnetic field. But it is handy
For space and to keep the lead wires short
Each coil is connected to one side of the capacitor
And because of this, they have different potentials and currents
The bucking field acts like an HV transformer boosting it before
It goes through the voltage converter for down-conversion.


The primary of the bucking coil capacitor comes off the machines
primary capacitor (Leyden jar) the other side goes to the low side
of the plate capacitor.
The secondary comes off the high side of the cap, and leads to the
voltage converter.


This also has another very important effect::::


And please pay attention!


Electricity generated through atomic and molecular induction
Be it by a direct induction machine, an influence machine, or a friction machine
Is comparable  to “incoherent light”.
It is non-polarized electricity.
It will travel in unintended paths base on its spin orientation and the properties
of its’ surroundings.




The electricity we use is polarized electricity, comparable to “coherent light”
It stays on the current path we provide it.




The magnetic bucking coil capacitor polarizes the electricity.
If you Omit this device, you can still drop the voltage through the converter
and it will still perform like low voltage dc.
However, it will still spark and jump out of the circuit like static electricity
And will induce crazy static charges on anything close to the circuit.


You have to “tame” it.

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 22, 2019, 09:31:32 PM
For those of you building Leyden Jars::


9-15% acetic acid vinegar makes a much better electrolyte
than saltwater or baking soda water , or even borax


Only use Carbon electrodes inside the capacitor or you WILL create
Toxic metal salts, which must be disposed of properly.
Don’t get it on you!


Aluminum acetates are approved for human and use “should be safe”
 but the ionic salts in these capacitors can reach
%’s that still may be hazardous.
Also, depleting your electrolyte lowering capacitance and increasing
resistance over the lifetime of the Leyden jar.


Carbon is mostly inert and safe for this use.


Enjoy!

Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 22, 2019, 09:49:50 PM
These two water bottle capacitors are only filled with 2 oz vinegar each


With a spark gap the machine is running at a steady 49 Hz


The lamp still flashes very visibly (like a mad scientist lab)
(Most of the light in the picture is from the Sun, not the lamp!)


Closing the sparkgap controller further does not increase the frequency
So I have to assume this is the frequency the machine is outputting.
At this RPM.


Impedance matching the lamp raises the freq of the lamp into the low 50’s Hz
Spark gap freq cuts in half and the lamp makes this weird clicking,
Smoother light but dimmer


Drawing a load from the terminals seems to make the light brighter at times
But is other wise unaffected by the pretense of a load.


Lap is connected in series between the outer foil of the two capacitors
and is operating on the voltage potential between the two outer foils
This in and of itself means I suck at building stuff and that my machine
is charging at two different potentials.


I already kind of knew this because the + is weaker than the -
More precise construction can eliminate this
But it’s kind of kewl that I can light a lamp from it...


Probably can do the same with a whimhurst or whatever
By unbalancing one of the capacitors


Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 24, 2019, 04:32:39 PM
I am able to light 2 lamps now


One is across the spark gap terminals
The other is between the outer capacitor plates.
At first I thought it was some sort of ‘net’ difference between the charges
But I think the lamp is lighting from the drop in voltage upon discharge
Not entirely certain at this point.


But! I am lighting 2 lamps from the machine now, fairly brightly



Title: Re: Sm0ky2's modified Voss Machine
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 25, 2019, 10:25:51 PM
Added the Dollard variable capacitance circuit
and the lamps are lighting brightly now.
Almost able to hone in on the 60 Hz