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Author Topic: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"  (Read 33083 times)

Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2016, 03:30:09 PM »
Guys, I swear you can hear crickets chirping if you listen hard enough.


Just to bump up this important thread, who actually agrees that 20Vx 0.4 A can make as much as 2V x 4A in exactly the same cell, with the only difference being that the second has electrolyte added to make it conductive? Don't be shy now. The watts are the same after all. Please explain your reasoning and please don't flame anyone. :(

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2016, 03:30:09 PM »

Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2016, 12:00:27 AM »



Just to bump up this important thread, who actually agrees that 20Vx 0.4 A can make as much as 2V x 4A in exactly the same cell, with the only difference being that the second has electrolyte added to make it conductive? Don't be shy now. The watts are the same after all. Please explain your reasoning and please don't flame anyone. :(

pomodoro

Ask your self this-
If less gas is being produced using the same amount of power,but at a higher voltage,and lower current,and less heat is also produced using a higher voltage/lower current-->where is the power going ?,as it is not producing as much gas,or as much heat-it simply cannot just up and disappear.

While we are at it-a question--
I had always thought that Faradays limit converted to an MMW of 9.28,but it wouls seem that after some calculations from a well known physics professor of these forums,that the faraday MMW limit is actually lower at just 8.57  :o
Do you agree with this number ?.

Quote
Guys, I swear you can hear crickets chirping if you listen hard enough.

Some of us have to work during the week,and also have family commitments as well.
There is also the fact that when doing something like this,very accurate measuring equipment must be designed and built--so as !some! cannot say the measurements are wrong.


Brad

Offline ramset

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2016, 01:09:10 AM »
Pomo
Some peeps hear crickets....others hear Bizzy bee's

a lotta Buzzin going on ATM.

respectfully

Chet K

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2016, 01:09:10 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2016, 04:06:14 AM »
Bit busy for a full reply ATM but quick calcs reveal 8.5 ml per wattminute at 25 deg C using values of 22.4L/mole, 96485.33 for F and in an open system (const pressure of 101.3 kpa and heat from room heating water back to 25C immediately.) this is the absolute best at those conditions, never achieved by anyone apparently. It requires 1.23v. Next value is the thermoneutral of 7.05 ml which is sometimes used. Even this value is possibly impossible again at the above temp and pressure but this time 1.48v is required. There is actually a massive assumption here that the electrodes are perfectly non polarizable meaning that an incredibly small increase above the 1.23V is enough to make the required current for the 1W flow.
Increases in temp lower those voltages and increase the mmw value.
As far as Faradays law is concerned, Brad , you have killed it by a factor of 10 if the measurements of current and volumes  are correct. Faraday's law is extremely precise unlike the above mmw calcs and volts have nothing to do with it.Temperature has no effect (below the thermal decomposition temp ie plasma electrolysis). Perhaps the smart chap you mention can clarify this for you.
Cheers for now pomo.
 Oh BTW the crickets were due to the lack of comments by readers, assuming people are reading but keeping quiet. ;D

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2016, 05:34:44 AM »
...As far as Faradays law is concerned, Brad , you have killed it by a factor of 10 if the measurements of current and volumes  are correct...
Sounds great to me. Congrats to the Tinman for your work! I don't have a clue how to handle this gas safely so it'll be a while before I try to replicate it. Thanks in the mean time for the how to videos.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2016, 05:34:44 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2016, 11:52:27 AM »
@TinMan

It's been a while. Hope you are keeping well.

About your set-up running at 60Hz, look, maybe you can try this side test.

With your set-up the way it is, find yourself a step down transformer. Connect the lower voltage side in series with negative that is coming from the rectifier to your stack. See the gas output volume. Then add a bulb as load on the high voltage side of the step down transformer. Then try the same thing in series on the positive side of the rectifier. Then if you want you can try it both ways with the higher side of the step down transformer in series.

See if there is an increase in gas production in one or more of those ways.

I'll leave it at that. Keep well.

wattsup

Wattsup

Remember the thread at OUR,where you video'd the production of HHO through your microscope ?.

As i recall,there was a good percentage of the HHO gas recombining back to water,before it had a chance to leave the cell,or rise to the top of the water.

I reviewed the video's,but dont seem to recall the voltage across the two electrodes.
Is there any chance that you can do this again,but this time use a high voltage,with a very narrow pulse width,and see if there is any recombination of the gases back to water.

This is a loss that very few people know about,and is worth showing.


Brad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2016, 03:23:23 AM »
Are you sure it is reforming into water, or is it possibly the gas bubbles are at first hot and expanding then quickly cooled by the water surrounding the bubbles therefor bubble shrinkage? ??? ;D

Mags


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2016, 03:23:23 AM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2016, 03:59:58 AM »
Recombinstion extremely unlikely unless platinum or perhaps palladium is used. It was an issue in some of the cold fusion experiments of the 80s. Other common metals are non catalytic .H2 and O2 can sit together for a thousand years without a flame or a catalyst.

Offline MagnaProp

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2016, 05:21:10 AM »
Could Tinman's system be used in a boat to power its self?

I'm assuming the current HHO under-Faraday  production system would require a boat to take in more water than it could propel itself with.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2016, 05:21:10 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2016, 05:36:21 AM »
Are you sure it is reforming into water, or is it possibly the gas bubbles are at first hot and expanding then quickly cooled by the water surrounding the bubbles therefor bubble shrinkage? ??? ;D

Mags

Hi Mags

I will dig up wattsup's videos for you-if they were not unlisted ones.
You can see plain as day,large gas bubbles there one second,and then just gone the next. No shrinking in size as they cooled-just gone. These large bubbles eould sit on the electrode for some time,and then they just would not be there.

Im going to coppy the videos,and watch them in slow motion,then frame by frame.
These videos were filmed through a microscope,and provided a look into hho production that very few have seen.


Brad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2016, 05:41:48 AM »
Hey Brad

Not coming down on your observation. ;D Just was thinking about possibilities.

Id like to see the vids. Interesting. I wonder if like a fuel cell it is maybe putting current back in the system, if the O and H are converting back to water. ???

Mags

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #40 on: December 02, 2016, 05:41:48 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #41 on: December 02, 2016, 10:15:08 AM »
Hey Brad

Not coming down on your observation. ;D Just was thinking about possibilities.

Id like to see the vids. Interesting. I wonder if like a fuel cell it is maybe putting current back in the system, if the O and H are converting back to water. ???

Mags

I did ask that very question at OUR,but got no reply's.

Here is one of the video's i was talking about.
You can clearly see the hydrogen migrating to the anode ,from the cathode.

I downloaded the video,and then used VLC media player to watch in full screen,and at 1/10 the speed. You can clearly see that at least half the hydrogen is migrating to the anode,and mixing with the oxygen,and reforming back to water,as very little of it actually breaks away,and rises to the top of the water. You can see which bubbles do make it to the top of the water,as they turn blurry as they get close to the microscope lenz--out of focus.

Most say this just dose not happen,and i would agree--once the HHO has made it out of the electromagnetic field of the cell plates. But while they are within the electromagnetic field of the cell plates,they can indeed reform back to there original state--that being water.

This was a great experiment carried out by wattsup--many thanks to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpLVSwIkeE


Brad

Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2016, 08:46:52 AM »
I did ask that very question at OUR,but got no reply's.

Here is one of the video's i was talking about.
You can clearly see the hydrogen migrating to the anode ,from the cathode.

I downloaded the video,and then used VLC media player to watch in full screen,and at 1/10 the speed. You can clearly see that at least half the hydrogen is migrating to the anode,and mixing with the oxygen,and reforming back to water,as very little of it actually breaks away,and rises to the top of the water. You can see which bubbles do make it to the top of the water,as they turn blurry as they get close to the microscope lenz--out of focus.

Most say this just dose not happen,and i would agree--once the HHO has made it out of the electromagnetic field of the cell plates. But while they are within the electromagnetic field of the cell plates,they can indeed reform back to there original state--that being water.

This was a great experiment carried out by wattsup--many thanks to him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbpLVSwIkeE


Brad

That is a very interesting vid. Thanks for posting and thanks to Watts for even coming up with the idea and doing it.

The bubbles only going one way seems to tell that the water disassembly happens on the left electrode. And it makes sense. Like why would there be the same function happening on the neg plate as would on the positive plate? So maybe the bubbles become charged and are attracted to the other electrode.

I see what you mean saying the bubbles seem to disappear. But they are small bubbles and the larger ones on the right electrode get larger as it goes. Say if a large bubble were only say 4 times the dia of 1 small bubble and then we add that small bubble to the large one, the increase in the large bubbles dia would be barely noticeable in the vid. And there may be large bubbles on the opposite side of the electrode that we cant see that are taking on small bubbles.

Its weird. Like if we do the inverted test tubes in a flask of water solution and put an electrode in one inverted tube and another electrode in the other, one test tube produces only oxygen and the other only fills with hydrogen. If the split happens at both electrodes, then what happened to the hydrogen atoms in the O2 test tube and what happened to the O2 in the Hydrogen test tube??

Never thought of it at this level before, and I should have.

The bubbles on the plates that stick probably and or possibly take up plate surface area. Having the water flow past the plates could possibly increase production by keeping the bubbles moving.



Mags

Offline pomodoro

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2016, 10:02:49 AM »
The cool video also shows that frequency has little to do with production of gases. 1Hz being the same as KHz. The double layer at the electrodes acts as a smoothing capacitor. It has a value of many microfarads. The double layer capacitance is used in some super capacitors. If the Sig gen has no blocking diode then you should see a break in gas production at low frequency because the output of the generator is a NPN/PNP driver. If a diode was used to convert the square AC to DC then the PNP can't discharge the double layer during the zero volts and it discharges by electrolysing water, hence the continuous gas production.

Offline Magluvin

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Re: TinMan's "Over Faraday HV HHO production"
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2016, 03:52:42 AM »
Im thinking of doing the experiment that Watts did while filming. Looking at some usb microscopes to poss do the vid. Thinking to isolate the electrodes except for the surfaces facing each other to hopefully clearly see what is going on.

Looked at some YT vids of animations of what happens. Like the 2 inverted test tubes, it is showing the H from the O tube to be transferred to the other electrode by going down ??? in the test tube and over to the other test tube. And I guess vice verse.  Seems like an odd travel situation for gas atoms in water. :o Would they all get to the other tube without escaping the water by floating up and out before it reaches the other tube? In that setup is it possible that some of the gas produced may escape before making it to the other electrode? Lots of questions come to mind.

Mags

 

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