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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 107993 times)

Offline norman6538

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #330 on: April 14, 2021, 12:05:37 AM »
OK, here is where I am now. I have not gotten good measurements anywhere near those posted by Floor. But basically if you take 2 like mags and place one flat and the other vertical at the center of the flat magnet there will be attraction to one end and repel to the other end and since it is directly in the middle you can slide the vertical magnet side to side easily - so what. That will become the sticky spot escape. So remove the vertical magnet out of range and then slide it toward the attracted side as described above and it will attract and slide toward the center and onward to the far side but stop it in dead center where it is balanced and can easily slid away escape the sticky spot and then you can repeat what I just described and thus free attraction and work out and almost free extraction from the sticky spot so it can be repeated again.

The real measurements are not in grams/mass but in work ie mass x distance.
I am refining those measurements.

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #330 on: April 14, 2021, 12:05:37 AM »

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #331 on: April 14, 2021, 02:04:38 AM »
OK, here is where I am now. I have not gotten good measurements anywhere near those posted by Floor. But basically if you take 2 like mags and place one flat and the other vertical at the center of the flat magnet there will be attraction to one end and repel to the other end and since it is directly in the middle you can slide the vertical magnet side to side easily - so what. That will become the sticky spot escape. So remove the vertical magnet out of range and then slide it toward the attracted side as described above and it will attract and slide toward the center and onward to the far side but stop it in dead center where it is balanced and can easily slid away escape the sticky spot and then you can repeat what I just described and thus free attraction and work out and almost free extraction from the sticky spot so it can be repeated again.

The real measurements are not in grams/mass but in work ie mass x distance.
I am refining those measurements.

Norman

Ok Norman, I got ya.

Mass like in grams or kilograms of mass or weight or force .....
times the distance moved.. cool.

Right on.

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #332 on: April 14, 2021, 02:47:27 AM »
First measurements.

Less than 5 grams. 

5 grams is roughly the threshold of my devices sensitivity.

Below 5 grams and I cant reliably measure without a lot of effort / repeat measurements. 

I have to tap on my bench to get a sliding action if the weight or force is
below 5 grams.

I can do that but lets just let 5 grams stand as the input force.

That way I am fudging a little toward a    non over unity    result.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

First measurements

Pass through, while the magnets are centered, one on edge over the broad face of the
other. 

The force is considered as a constant 5 grams over the entire 1 and 7/8 inches.

1 inch = 25.4 millimeters

25.4 millimeters = 0.0254 of a meter
... ... ... ... ... ...
7/8 of an inch = 0.875 inches

0.875 of a inch = 22.225 millimeters

22.225 mm = 0.02222 meters
... ... ... ... ... ...
1 and 7/8 inches =  0.04762 of a meter                                                                                       
... ... ... ... ... ...
1 gram of weight (on earth) =  0.0098066500286389 newtons of force

5 grams of weight (on earth) = 0.0490332501431945 newtons of force

                newtons of force time meters = joules of energy or work.

0.049 newtons x  0.04762 meter = 0.00233 joules of work.

                                                 first result is 0.00233 joules.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

Been busy today.
  I  should have the rest of the measurements by end of tomarrow.

   best wishes
        floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #332 on: April 14, 2021, 02:47:27 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #333 on: April 14, 2021, 03:19:11 AM »
@ all readers

I respectfuly request that other members refrain from
posting in this topic until norman6538 and I have
completed this measurment process.

   best wishes
        floor

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #334 on: April 14, 2021, 07:46:54 AM »
Measurements of gotoluc's device / floor's variation

Parameters part 1

 The limit of sensitivity of floor's test bench.
                      video @
         https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an


           floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #334 on: April 14, 2021, 07:46:54 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline norman6538

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #335 on: April 14, 2021, 05:13:31 PM »
My setup has a vertical magnet moving left and right and the flat magnet moving toward me and away from me. The work out is that flat magnet movement. My work out is dismal - 4 1/4 nuts lifted .6 cm. and the travel distance to get that lift pulling the vertical magnet is 1.5 cm and those  4 1/4 nuts are not enough to overpower the repel at that side of the vertical/flat magnet so my rough measurements say UO - under unity. Yes the escape at the center is easy BUT it takes about 2.5 cm to completely escape the flat magnet.

A rapid prototype tip - I used weights on a string and pulley on a stand that I could move around the floor quickly to test work in/out. 
And in the test bed when I move the vertical magnet manually I can see the repel force/resistance by moving the vertical magnet and likewise see the minimal forces when the vertical magnet is aligned at the center of the flat magnet.

The attached photo is a quick and dirty pivot on the left that allowed me to see the attract on the left and the repel on the right. And that repel on the right and attract on the left wants to push the vertical magnet to the left....BUT there is a stick spot on the left but not in the middle . This quick and dirty testbed showed me what I needed to see.

So basically to get useful work out you
1. first have to set the magnets up to harvest that work. - position vertical magnet to the right where there is an opposing repel force requiring some work in.
2. Then you extract that work - the vertical magnet on a pivot slides left
  and Next -
3. you have to reset the device to repeat step 1. - if the vertical magnet is at the middle then it will pull away easily but if too far to the left attraction side it will take extra work to pull it away. 

Then repeat step 1 by repositioning the vertical magnet. 


Norman
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 02:04:43 AM by norman6538 »

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #336 on: April 15, 2021, 03:41:03 AM »
As often as I have goaded you to up the precision on your builds
and measurements and if turn about is fair play then....
I guess its my turn now.

I didn't make it far enough to make measurements today.

The table is screwed to the floor.
The table top is reinforced with lumber.
The test bench is mounted to the table.
The test bench is assembled and tuned up.
The test bench rails are leveled in two directions.
I had to tweak the bearing points on the sliding indicator scale needle / pulley.
It was a sticking a little at the low end of the scale.  Wood warps some times.
I have a couple of magnets mounted.

I don;t have my weight scales and weight bottles set up yet.
And a few other things yet to do...
    Tomorrow...

  Two photos  below

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #336 on: April 15, 2021, 03:41:03 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #337 on: April 15, 2021, 03:49:51 AM »
That's correct Norman,  these designs require 3 inputs for every one output.

That is why the inputs need to be very near to zero work against magnetic forces.

@ all readers

I respectfuly request that other members refrain from
posting in this topic until norman6538 and I have
completed this measurment process.

   best wishes
        floor

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #338 on: April 15, 2021, 02:08:15 PM »
                    The link below is the
MMM    "Magnets Motion and Measurement"     dust bin.

Users can post

Ideas, suggestions, design modifications, requests, have discussions, 
for this topic / at the present time / while Norman and I complete
our tests.

https://overunity.com/18497/floor-sweepings-dust-bin/

Thanks
       floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #338 on: April 15, 2021, 02:08:15 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #339 on: April 15, 2021, 08:19:12 PM »
No measurements to post yet.

A video that explains the test sets

                       @
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x80nhtf

@ all readers

I respectfuly request that other members refrain from
posting in this topic until norman6538 and I have
completed this measurment process.
... ... ... ... ... ...
                    The link below is the
MMM    "Magnets Motion and Measurement"     dust bin.

Users can post

Ideas, suggestions, design modifications, requests, have discussions,
for this topic / at the present time / while Norman and I complete
our tests.

https://overunity.com/18497/floor-sweepings-dust-bin/

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #340 on: April 16, 2021, 12:37:09 AM »
When I realized one of my inputs, was not going to be a near zero,
(Norman called it right) I went for some quick and sloppy measurements.

total out 144 units
total in 140.6 units

No O.U.  here....    this is well within my sloppy margin of error

at 325 grams balances at center               
at 360 grams     1/16 = 0.0625    1/16   0 = 0         685 /2       = 342
at 460 grams     1/16 = 0.0625   1/8                       820 /2       = 410
at 500 grams     1/16 = 0.0625      3/16                  960 / 2      = 480                 
at 575 grams      1/32 = 0.03125    7/32                   1075 / 2   = 537.5
at 675 grams      1/64 = 0.01562   15/64                 1250 / 2    = 625
at 700 grams      1/64 = 0.01562    16/64 = 0.25      1375 / 2   =  687.5
                                                                           0.25 total displacement

7/8 - 3/8 = 4/8 = 1/2
1/2 / 2 = 1/4 or 0.25

342 x 0.0625           = 21.375
410 x 0.0625           =  25.625
480 x 0.125             =    60
537.5  x  0.03125    = 16.797
625 x 0.01526         = 9.5375
687.5 x 0.01526      = 10.49
                              144 total output

1 7/8 x 5     = 9.375
1 7/8 x 70   = 131.25

9.375 + 131.25  = 140.625 total input

  Next.....

   peace out
        floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #340 on: April 16, 2021, 12:37:09 AM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #341 on: April 16, 2021, 01:14:41 AM »
Thanks Floor for sticking in there.

 I really wish I had been wrong....
.

I learned this stuff way back with the Echlin motor that had 2 sides ie double the attraction/sticky spot.

I won't be doing much now that the outside weather is good unless my magnet addiction rises up again before cold weather.

Norman

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #342 on: April 16, 2021, 02:38:50 PM »
We will see you when we see you.

@all readers
  The same two magnets were used in all the measurement sets.

One more photo below...

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #343 on: April 16, 2021, 03:25:49 PM »
My assesment of the forces as "no net force" in the drawing @
https://overunity.com/16987/td-replications/msg556782/#msg556782
                                              was in error

The force when accurately measured was an average of about 70 grams over the
length of the travel.

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #344 on: April 17, 2021, 01:23:03 AM »
But I was pretty sure that I already knew how to fix that as of a 2 days ago...

Still and all....
I had to finish / measure the design as presented (maintain the topic's continuity of flow).

Here is the fix.  It is work from magnets...
or 
O.U. if that's what is appropriate to call it...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Insertion of a magnet into another magnetic field without
doing work against that field, yes it's real.

Luc's force, yes it's real.

Removal of a magnet from another magnetic field without
doing work against that field, yes it's real.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
I put this "array" on the test bench today and output magnet,
insertion or removal, both work beautifully, at either end (start or finish).

   floor








 

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