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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 144390 times)


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #315 on: December 01, 2020, 11:16:38 PM »
                       No O.U. in the all magnet twist drive.

An input of about 80 grams (average force) on the "SL" sliding unit,
over 22 increments of linear displacement....

causes the lifting of 135 grams over 42 increments of displacement.

80 x 22 = 1760  work in to 135 x 42 = 5670  work out.
5670 / 1760 = 3.22 times more mechanical work out put than
mechanical work input.

But the process when reversed, has precisely the opposite ratio.
Therefore during a full cycle operation the work in to work out
                         No net gain !

Something similar could be done with springs and levers. 

                          Note... I say similar but not identical.

1. In loaded spring designs I have examined,  there is a spring / force, loading
present in that part of the unit (which is analogous to the SL magnet / linear
motion unit) which does not exist / is not present, in the magnet rather than springs,
builds / design.

2. The magnets, if electromagnets and unlike springs, can be switched on and off.   
                                          Full cycle operation could then be O.U..

                             best wishes


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #316 on: December 02, 2020, 09:03:22 PM »

It is only my opinion that electromagnet use, can yield an O.U. result.

Energy input in electric form, would need to be measured as expended in
either one or two electromagnets.

One electrical input, if a single electromagnetic coil (no core ?) is used along
with one permanent magnet.
Two electrical inputs supplying two electromagnets (both with cores).

The mechanical energy input upon a single one of those magnets (the SL)
must also be included as joules of input energy.

It remains at this point, that the calculating of joules per second  (power) is not
necessary in to determining the energy input to energy output ratio.

It is not my intention at this time, to do those explorations / measurements.
     best wishes


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #317 on: April 12, 2021, 04:05:30 AM »
To hell with the electromagnet ideas. 

I stumbled on a fix for GoToLuc's torque amplifier. 

See the jpg file below.  Very simple, wow.

I call it luc's times 1/2, times 4

note that shoud be flush not fush



  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #318 on: April 12, 2021, 04:21:22 AM »
This is Luc's original design

At first the original may seem identical to this modification, but
its not.


Offline norman6538

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #319 on: April 12, 2021, 05:42:07 PM »
Ah Floor you got me hooked again. I made a rapid prototype and it works an has a great escape. I used  1 mag on the pendulum and 2 on an arm with travel stop limits and it works the same as GOTOLUC. Then I removed the mags and the pendulum swings free so there is a bit of a stick spot but not a fully stuck spot.
Now as I have said before great ideas but where are  the measurements that tell the final story.
I had 2 sets of magnets with different gaps between them to see if I could reduce the travel of the input work of the pendulum and it seemed to have more sticky spot to overcome.


Offline lancaIV

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #320 on: April 12, 2021, 05:49:07 PM »


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #321 on: April 12, 2021, 10:13:32 PM »
What you see is what you get.

@ Hooked again...

Once a dancer always a dancer.

1. The effortless pass through.....
             when the magnets are centered to one another....
is an easy one, as long as you keep every thing true / not flexing out
of square in any way. 

2. The pass through which is near to the end of the magnet walks a very fine line,
in terms of positioning. 

It is the balancing the forces between  4 poles (1,2,3,4).

1/2 of the end / edge of the shifting magnet (1)...
1 of the vertical broad faces of the input magnet (2).
the top side  / broad face of the shifting magnet (3)
the other vertical face of the input magnet (4)

If the "flushness" of the two magnets is off in one direction by very very little,
there is one effect, if its off in the other there is another effect.

Either effect interferes with the ease of the pass through.
..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....

     in Luc's design
One magnet is the shifting magnet (output).
The other magnet is the pendulum magnet (input)

In luc's design

The pendulum magnet glides over the shifting magnet while flush aligned to
one of the shifting magnets edges.

Then the shifting magnet shifts until its corner / edge is centered below the
the pendulum magnets edge.  Too far !

The pendulum magnet then exits away from the shifting magnet while the center of
its edge rides over the corner / edge of the shifting magnet.
                ok ?
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

1. Luc's pendulum magnet is approaching the shifting magnet in an arc. 
Its entrance into the shifting magnet's field, ALONG THE PLAIN OF THAT ARC
is against magnetic repulsion. 
If the arc and radius of the pendulum were very very large this force would be very very small. 
                                                  Its not.

2. Had the approach of the input magnet been along the plane of the shifting magnet's broad face,
it is / it would have been almost without magnetic resistance.

3. Luc's pendulum magnet exits after having a maximum output travel by
the shifting magnet.  This seems to maximize out put.  But the sacrifice in
input, as the work to then remove the pendulum magnet, makes that gain into
a loss.
4. The output magnet needs to exit from over the shifting magnet, while it is
centered above it.
5. Don't use a pendulum unless it radius is maybe 15 or 20 feet.


Offline norman6538

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #322 on: April 12, 2021, 11:49:15 PM »
Floor is right about the alignments and adjustments. I made a quick and dirty one with clamps everywhere for easy adjustments and tweaked it several times. It might take me a couple days to get measurements. The mags have opposite polarities up and there are stops to limit travel. And the single magnet is input and has a left and right pivot on a 12in arc and the 2 mags are the output and have a pivot/arc off to the right and out of camera range that move toward and away from the camera. So there can be output in both directions without the loss of a reset to repeat.
See the photo.   Norman


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #323 on: April 13, 2021, 12:37:42 AM »
           Don't use a pendulum unless the distance from the pivot point
                        to the arc it swings is 15 or 20 FEET.

          I have referred to Luc's wheel as a pendulum.  But it is a wheel.
                            There really is no point to using a wheel.

1. Because the arc is a problem, unless it has a very large curvature (explained above).

2.            Continuous motion in order to conserve momentum would only
                                         be beneficial if
           the length of time that the input magnet is over the shifting magnet
                                is a long enough time period
                   for the shifting magnet to complete its motion.

                                      That is to say
                         the length of time for the output
                            and then once again or later,
             the length of time for the output magnet to reset / return.
... ... ...
                This would require a long magnet. depending upon both,
                       how quickly the shifting magnet's strokes occur,
                          how slow the input magnet travels


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #324 on: April 13, 2021, 01:08:34 AM »
Force is neutral one plane when the magnets are centered, but IN TWO LINES
upon that plain.
                      BUT although
The forces are neutralized in one plain when the input magnet
is at the end of the output magnet, that neutralization is in
                               ONE LINE ONLY. 
                   then fortunately
Force is neutral along the line of travel which we desire it to be.

The drawings below give most of the force directions, but do not
include / detail this last quality.


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #325 on: April 13, 2021, 01:28:02 AM »
here is a brief video demontration

please see for your self, some of the proofs and principles demonstrated.

   best wishes


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #326 on: April 13, 2021, 02:57:18 PM »
Here are some measurements...

In the video,

Those are fair quality magnets.

More than 1,200 grams of force (easily) can be generated between the
three of them.

The spaceing between the inner magnet and either of the outer magnets
is less than 1/32 inch or 0.79375mm.

It is less than 1/16 inch total.

Probably actually closer to 1/32 inch total.

In this configuration and
even at that close distance, the force needed to slide the inner magnet into
or out from, between the outer magnets

is less than 5 grams force

when the approach / exit is a 90 degree angle.


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #327 on: April 13, 2021, 05:57:44 PM »
As an aside...

I would like to take a moment to thank gotoluc,
for his enthusiasm, diligence and the many hours of effort he put into
his experimentations.....

and for taking so well, some of the hard knocks he received from some of
the participants during his presentations. 

Disappointments are hard to take some times, and those hard knockers were
disappointed.  Cut them some slack if you will Luc.

We learned a great deal from the Luc builds.  It was very very valuable to us.

        Thanks again.

Offline seychelles

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #328 on: April 13, 2021, 06:18:47 PM »


  • Guest
Re: TD replications
« Reply #329 on: April 13, 2021, 07:07:26 PM »
Thanks seychelles

These are the diagram / details of the forces when the two magnets are flush
at their ends (polarities must be observed)