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Author Topic: TD replications  (Read 55036 times)

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2016, 08:54:52 PM »
@Webby

Please, not considered an intrusion by me either, I appreciate your Knowledge
and input.

@ all readers

But this topic is not for theories, nor design "improvements"... nor of or for an
"in the future working motor design" etc..

The project needs to have a robust body of evidence.
The project NEEDS and appreciates,... multiple (reasonably similar), well done and well described replications.

Some details are directly related to that goal, others will tend to clutter the topic or even worse
side track it.

If you will, ....please give us all, a fantastic replication, well described, ... and answer any an all
inquires as to it's mechanical operation.

Straight up empirical only, IE. videos, measurements, descriptions, calcs and so on.
No abstractions here please.

I hope my reasoning for this understandable.

                      Thank you for participating
                                 enjoy
                                      floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2016, 08:54:52 PM »

Offline allcanadian

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2016, 11:41:56 PM »
@Floor
Quote
If you will, ....please give us all, a fantastic replication, well described, ... and answer any an all [/size]inquires as to it's mechanical operation. Straight up empirical only, IE. videos, measurements, descriptions, calcs and so on. No abstractions here please.I hope my reasoning for this understandable.


A couple of years ago I saw a video of a working machine which was identical to this concept using four or five rotor sections translating a reciprocal magnet motion to a rotating magnet disk. I believe the device had multiple patents over many years thus this is by no means a new technology.


The inventor also mentioned that out of the many working machines he had built only a few demonstrated efficiency high enough to warrant a practical machine. As such I think that rather than trying to reinvent the wheel 10 years too late some thought should go towards a more practical design. I will try to find the name of the inventor and the patents covering this effect if i can.


AC

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2016, 12:36:38 AM »
@allcanadian

Wrong topic for your posting here.  Please post that pattent if you find it,
in the work from 2 magnets topic. A larger body of evidence is good.

@Gotoluc

Some observations on your device.

please see the attached PNG files.

                              floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2016, 12:36:38 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2016, 02:55:44 PM »
Hi floor


yes you're right!... I've addressed it in test 2 video and also yesterday made modification to correct it (see below pic) by adding a counter weight on the opposite side of the arm which was intended for that purpose.


Thanks


Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2016, 02:59:21 PM »
Hi everyone,


Below is test 3 demo which uses a different magnet geometry more like the shape floor used in his test device.


Link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKHtXVw28Qc


Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2016, 02:59:21 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2016, 03:26:26 PM »
The below is test 3 Input Torque curve chart.
Keep in mind these are Foot Grams measured on the 12 inch torque arms.


Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2016, 03:42:02 PM »
And here is test 3 Output Torque curve chart.
Keep in mind these are Foot Grams measured on the 12 inch torque arms.

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2016, 03:42:02 PM »
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Offline DrJones

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2016, 04:10:22 AM »
  Good work, Luc!
 It is indeed curious.  I've been thinking of ways to convert the action here to a continuous motion, using gravity to drop an upper magnet (at right angles) in close proximity to the lower magnet prior to the "twisting phase" - then using energy from the twisting phase to raise the upper magnet back up to the starting height then turn it 90deg to the starting position. That is the more difficult action to resolve (for me). 


This would be a small model involving oscillating (engage-disengage) as well as rotary (torque) motions ... 
A small test device that would keep moving would be an awesome Christmas present to the world!

Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2016, 05:41:51 AM »
@luc

1. A few degrees of rotation  of RO toward 90 deg. off from parallel with SL
(3 to 5 deg. ?)... is the optimal starting position for RO (in the same direction
it will rotate when RO's force is measured).

2.  But also RO must hit it's stop at 90 deg. off from parallel to SLand no farther.

A full 90 degs. of rotation will not be acheived.

3. Im not certain that the counter weight on the RO scale indicator as is.....
is giving the needed effect.

If it is, then,
      when there are no magnetic force interactions Between RO and SL (one magnet removed ?)
the RO scale indicator will ballance (have no tendancy to rotate by gravity's pull at any
degree of it's rotation).

                       Don't rush it man......
                          It's bound to take some time to dial it all in.

                    Nice work
                           floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2016, 05:41:51 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2016, 03:14:31 PM »
  Good work, Luc!
 It is indeed curious.  I've been thinking of ways to convert the action here to a continuous motion, using gravity to drop an upper magnet (at right angles) in close proximity to the lower magnet prior to the "twisting phase" - then using energy from the twisting phase to raise the upper magnet back up to the starting height then turn it 90deg to the starting position. That is the more difficult action to resolve (for me). 


This would be a small model involving oscillating (engage-disengage) as well as rotary (torque) motions ... 
A small test device that would keep moving would be an awesome Christmas present to the world!


Thanks Dr Jones for your post and thinking of ways to convert this action into continuous motion.

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2016, 03:34:33 PM »
1. A few degrees of rotation  of RO toward 90 deg. off from parallel with SL
(3 to 5 deg. ?)... is the optimal starting position for RO (in the same direction
it will rotate when RO's force is measured).

Not sure I understand your suggestion

2.  But also RO must hit it's stop at 90 deg. off from parallel to SLand no farther.

Are you recommending the output torque arm (RO) should stop at the center of the torque cycle? (see chart below)
If so, why?... other then it would be next to free for the input torque arm to return to starting point


A full 90 degs. of rotation will not be acheived.

Why not?

3. Im not certain that the counter weight on the RO scale indicator as is.....
is giving the needed effect.

If it is, then,
      when there are no magnetic force interactions Between RO and SL (one magnet removed ?)
the RO scale indicator will ballance (have no tendancy to rotate by gravity's pull at any
degree of it's rotation).

The counter weight was perfectly adjusted to create a zero gravity influence where ever the rotation arm is positioned. It was adjusted prior to bringing it in proximity of any ferromagnetic material or magnets.


Thanks


Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: TD replications
« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2016, 03:34:33 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2016, 10:51:30 PM »
@ Gotoluc
QUOTE from Gotoluc
"Are you recommending the output torque arm (RO) should
stop at the center of the torque cycle? (see chart below)" END QUOTE
    yes

QUOTE from Gotoluc
"If so, why?... other then it would be next to free for the
input torque arm to return to starting point
END QUOTE

No its just because it would be next to free for the input torque
arm to return to starting point.  Thanks
.....................................................................
QUOTE from Gotoluc
"Not sure I understand your suggestion"
END QUOTE

In general, the maximum rotation motivating force is available
during the first part of the rotation....  this is not true during the
VERY FIRST FEW degrees of  rotation away from exact parallel.
                because
The rotation motivating forces toward clock wise rotation are in
balance with the rotation motivating forces toward counter clock
wise, when RO is exactly parallel to SL

This cw to ccw balance shifts greatly.... within a few degrees of
rotation from exact parallel.

While

The linear motivating force (which pushing SL away) is at its absolute
maximum potential when RO and SL are exactly parallel.  This linear
force decreases substantially with a few degrees of rotation.

There is no need to do input against this absolute maximum, linear repelling
force, when the RO out doesn't give back its maximum until after
a few degrees of rotation from exact parallel.

                  thanks luc
                       best wishes
                                  floor

Offline gotoluc

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2016, 08:30:47 AM »
Thanks for the clarification floor


I'll re-measure the approximate 75 degree of rotation available up to the 90 center to see how it effects the gain.


Luc

Offline DrJones

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Re: TD replications
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2016, 10:13:14 AM »
  Mechanical work - which is one form of energy - is defined in basic terms as
Work = Force X Distance moved.


  For a rotating object, we apply a torque to get it to move/rotate.  Also, the distance moved = distance along a portion of a circle called an "arc", which = R x Theta (where the angle Theta is measured in radians= actually, unitless).
Then
Work = Force X Distance moved  = Force x R x Theta  = Torque x Theta, [/size]


So the work = mechanical energy = Torque x Theta, not just Torque alone.


I'm concerned that Theta has been left out in the analysis so far in this thread - and hope that Theta will be included in the future.

Offline wattsup

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    • Spin Conveyance Theory - For a New Perspective...
Re: TD replications
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2016, 01:42:53 PM »
@gotoluc

Referring only to your videos 3 with the rectangular neos, I have always liked mechanical puzzles of weight and motion but this device I see is giving me a potential quandary.

You measured your reference data by putting your scale on the tip of each arm and lifting to record the measured "pull" weight at each increment.

But in your experiment the arm is being lifted by and from the center shaft via the length of one neo magnet so it has to fight against the full leverage of the arm, so the actual mechanical process of the experiment is not pulling the arm from the tip as you have tabulated.

Seems to me the base data should be taken at a point on the arm that starts at the shaft and goes not more then half the length of the neo magnet from the shaft since it is the shaft centered neo magnet's responding length that is turning the shaft that is lifting the arm.

What would your opinions be. So I am basically asking "Should the base data be taken at point 1 or 2 on the below drawing?", since for me the lift force required should be greater at point 1 then point 2. Or, am I blind to an obvious simplicity. I do not know for sure and maybe even if the data was taken at point 1, the final ratios would be the same and the final percentage outcome would also be the same.

By the way @gotoluc, your worksmanship is so fine and thanks for your always inquisitive and clear videos and works.

wattsup

 

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