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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: Floor on November 01, 2016, 02:11:43 AM

Title: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 01, 2016, 02:11:43 AM
Magnets, motion and measurement

This topic is being created for discussion of the conventional scientific
descriptions of

energy
work
force
and power
 
and the methods of their measurement.

ESPECIALLY AS THEY APPLY TO MAGNETIC INTERACTIONS.
................................
It is also for discussion of both the conventional descriptions of magnet interactions
and
new theories observations and so on.

                       floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 05, 2016, 09:29:46 PM
Please find the attached document "MeasPhy(10-N).pdf"

It is still a work in progress.

Corrections are welcome / needed.

Please do not redistribute it.

                  cheers
                    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 26, 2016, 06:52:05 PM
Please find the attached,  next version of the Magnets Motion and Measurement document
"MeasPhy(10-P).pdf".

                  best wishes
                    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 27, 2016, 05:16:07 PM
A special thank you to those who have contributed to / offered corrections to
the project.
                        best wishes
                                floor

Please find the attached file "MeasPhy(10-Q). pdf
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 01, 2016, 09:04:30 PM
@ aal readers

Again

 thank you to those who have contributed to / offered corrections to
the project. I think It's starting to get to a well polished state.

Please discard previous versions and find the attached file "MeasPhy(10-S). pdf
                       
                                floor

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 09, 2017, 07:04:53 PM
@norman6538

I don't think of "Near Strong / Far weak" as being exceptionally
problematic.

 See the attached file below
 
                  regards
                    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: norman6538 on January 09, 2017, 08:21:18 PM
@norman6538

I don't think of "Near Strong / Far weak" as being exceptionally
problematic.

 See the attached file below
 
                  regards
                    floor




That would be a great way to compensate mechanically. But think of it this way.
When close and like poles first there is a strong push and then a weak push. And
when far and opposite poles there is a weak pull so little work can even get started.

Norman
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 11, 2017, 02:58:54 AM
@Norman6538

quote
"when far and opposite poles there is a weak pull so little work can even get started" end quote

In the TD (twist drive) pass through 5 version,  it doesn't work that way.

                   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 11, 2017, 06:16:49 AM
When you think of near and far, weak and strong
Many combinations can be made magnetically
Approx as many as there are atomic configurations
Perhaps more


A guy came out with a "magnetic tractor beam"
Uses weak (close) forces in combination with
Strong (far) forces
As the interacting field approaches the effective field
of the stronger magnet, the strong force takes over.


The new 3-d printed complex magnets can create a near
infinite combination force domains to customize your fields.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on January 12, 2017, 11:37:26 PM
Here's a video I found if the tractor beam.
There's literally a near infinite things you can do with this
From the "thors hammer" you can't pick up, to precision
controlled actuators.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hUtnMh0EBBc (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hUtnMh0EBBc)

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on February 09, 2017, 02:05:24 AM
Re Gotoluc measurements:
work = force x distance
I would like  Gotoluc to measure force for each segment of his input
and output dials, and multiply this force by the length of the segment.
Then add them together for the input and output.
This will give us input and output work.
The more segments he has, the more precise would be the calculations.
In fact, he already has everything in place, just needs to do the above
operations.
Regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 09, 2017, 08:01:34 PM
Useful topic, pitty I surf this page without a pdf reader, so I gotta frequently transfer stuff to my old win rig and read it there. A Gif or Png here and there would however not hurt me ^^


When it comes to magnetism, you have to forget all the theories about it, look at your own observations and then start thinking logically.


For instance, the fact that unequal poles link and jetstream in polar axis direction, while equal poles build a barrier at the equilibrium, that is flat like when you press your nose against a glass window and therefor 90 deg "off", compared to the jetstream of eg. N-S, that alone is remarkable.


Theoreticly, you could place two magnets N vs N, a half inch apart, Now take third magnet, position its South between them, right in the middle, like the columbus egg, attracted by both sides the same. By wiggling the third magnet side to side, you maybe can alternate the competitive fluxpaths (3 identic magnets) with little force. Just an idea that went trough my head atm, didn't mean to become off topic.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 11, 2017, 01:31:32 AM
@dieter

              I read your above post some days ago, just didn't get around to
responding.

You are not off topic at all in your post.

This topic is for basic physics (mechanics) discussion, especially as it
applies to magnets....  measuring and understanding .... force, displacement,
work and energy.   Your comments were appreciated.

  regards
        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 02:44:01 AM
Thanks, Floor!


In one of my brighter moments I recently had a sudden vision the quantummechanical characteristics in magnetism and electricity, that led to the formulation of my theory, which goes beyond currently accepted teachings. I posted it already in an other thread, but would like to repost it here, since it fits the topic so well.


The ambient magnetic field of random equilibrium.
By Dieter Marfurt


Electrons can only move in the conductor if they align their natural spin to the shortest way between the potential diffrence. Thus their normally random spins accummulate. Their spin however produces a gyroscopic force yet to be named, that forces magnetic domains in the molecural/cristalline lattice  into a 90 degree angle. Once the domains are aligned, the "magnetism" will use these domeins like a highway. The Domains are not the magnet, they only rectify the magnetic force that is everywhere, but in a random xyz equilibrium.some materials can keep the domain orientation even after the current stops flowing, and become permanent magnets.[/size]On the other hand, exposing randomly spinning electrons to a magnetic field forces them to spin like a screw until they are out of reach. As free electrons are not really free, but elasticly connected to their original location, they will spin back when the magnetic field is decreasing. Electrons can be rilped off of that elastic connection, causing charge/electron holes, as in semiconductors, at the cost of high energy losses, which is why Tesla's AC won over Edisons DC, because in DC the losses increase tremendously over distance, where in AC electrons rarely lose their connection to their beloved equilubrium condo and basicly just bounce back and forth at a "rubberband".[/size]
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 03:51:59 AM
Now, how do we make magnets?


By electricity, maybe like my theory says.


Secondly, we can permanently magnetize hard steel with a permanent magnet. So a magnet can make an other magnet. Does the first magnet getting used up or weaker? No, and that is the beauty of it! Forcing magnetic domains in a iron cristal lattice into alignement doesn't require energy in the conventional sense! This can only mean that the ambient magnetic equilibrium is excess energy by its own! Capable of creating further magnets, within the regime of known permeability.


If we can magnetize without energy loss then there is a high probability that we can also demagnetize without energy loss.


So these are the two commonly known methods of making permanent magnets. But there are more ways!


Take a brandnew hammer and a brandnew hardened steel screwdriver. Hold the screwdriver towards a stone ground and hit the hammer heavily on the Screwdriver's handle. You'll notice the tip will become permanently magnetized, so you can lift a nail with it. Due to gravity shockwaves!


You see we got already 3 ways to make a magnetic field and or a PM.


I think it is only a matter of decades, until we discover further ways to achieve this goal, more elegant ways, in which the energy costs are in now way related to the field strength achieved.


Some will argue that it is not true that we do not lose energy when magnetizing by a DC current. But the losses are in fact only the product of the secondary magnetic field, that, by its own, was created without energy as well, it just happens that the secondary field in conventional induction causes the electrons in the conductor to spin the opposite way, thus braking the rotation caused by the potential diffrence and effectively increase the DC rwsistance in the conductor.


Making magnets with DC currents is messy business, like slicing butter with a chainsaw.


So it may be a very important field in science to find new ways of magnetization.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 11, 2017, 04:31:24 AM
@deiter

        I think maybe your theory has some valid elements to it. I don't
have a better one.

      but in contemplating the magnetic field I come up with this model.

A simple mobius strip has only a single 1/2 twist in the ribbon....but also a mobius strip
can have many twists rather than just a 1/2 twist.   

The edges of a twisted ribbon have the form of a double helix.

The forces (torque and tension) are said to tend to seek their most relaxed state at all
points.  but this does not result in an even distribution of twist along the length of the ribbon
within a mobius strip.
             but rather
In the "natural form" of a multi twist mobius strip we find that most of the tight twists lie together...
while also an other section of the strip which has very little twist lies all together (no tight twisting spots to break it up).

              bloch wall
If we look at the field of a permanent magnet, and at an individual  line of force (an idealized
simplification) as having the form of a mobius strip  ...  and we place lines between the two helixs
(like the ladder rung like connections in the DNA molecule)  .... and we assign a N/S magnetic
polarity to these "rungs" like pole next to like pole ...  (all N poles connected to one helix
and all south poles connected to the other helix).  Note... that this does not necessarily result in
like pole in close proximity to each other.  Also consider that there would be other twisted ribbons
all  around in the over all field.

Where the double helix is tightly wound we will find an absence of NET magnetic force, because
N and S forces are in a near balance in any direction from we approach the double helix...except
as we approach it nearly straight on to the end of that double helix.

We have next, then to look at what Theoria Apophasis has termed the dielectric inertial plane
/counter part to the bloch wall.... in the part of the magnetic field which is exterior to the
[permanent magnet.  Lowest density in the field ... largest area.

Also we must again consider multiple force lines ... a gentle spiraling and... spiral ribbon layers
within layers  (shells) .... and also more than one ribbon sharing a single "shell".

I don't know if this model of mine gives you any ideas,  but I hope it may/

        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 04:36:22 AM
As a Sidenote: I just said the seconary field of induction increases the DC resistance in the conductor and that causes energy loss... not very logical at first glance, right? But if you force the device to maintain the current flow at the same level, regardless of higher resistance, then it makes sense and we understand how energy gets lost.


Anyhow, in any AC operation you also have to deal with the phase shift, but that may lead us to far away from the topic.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 05:22:55 AM
Very interesting, Floor. Very close to my own interpretation. And good you are focussing on the magnet side, I tend to drift into electrical stuff.


At the nexus of my magnet force rectifier, the bloch wall, may be a focus in which as you said, polarities are so dense that due to molecular scale forces practically equalize.


But is there a particle, the magnetron? That is ejected out of the pole with a slingshot accelleration? But why does it return to the other pole? May there be a particle-pair fission and entanglement? One particle is shot out one side, the other one the other side? As they lose monentum, and repelled by like particles around them, the build the mushroom field, with one goal: to reunite with their entangled brother particle? Maybe.


If there is a helix pattern in the magnetic mechanics, then it must cause a gyroscopic force. That would explain, why electrons interlock with magnetic fields and are forced into rotation... at 90 degree angle...! Wow Floor I think you just put in the missing puzzle piece in my theory. Thanks! We should share that freakin nobel prize I'd say :)
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 11, 2017, 05:55:04 AM
Hmm, there is also a further, easier explanation (sorry, on electrons again):


Electrons have a south and north pole, like our planet. Not surprising then, when they align to a magnetic field. But, according to my theory, due to their natural spinning, I call it screw-like, you'd probably say helix-guided, they then propagate in the conductor.


But ok, back to magnetism.


I think the perfect magnetic gate were, if you could sneak your rotor magnet into the bloch wall of the stator magnet and then give it a slight push so it will be repelled. But would that be possible? Just, very basic mechanical challenge? I lean towards Yes. Maybe we could use quantum tunnelling to transfer electrons into the bloch wall, would that be cool? Ok, we'd need the CERN to do the first testrun and maybe a Megawatt. But particle tunneling is real. We can Scotty-like beam particles, jumping like one inch in zero time. And the magnet would shoot out the electron or other particle.


Well just one way to sneak into the bloch wall.


A practical application of the theories is always the thing that's driving me.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 11, 2017, 07:52:55 AM
The DNA helix is a good analogy. If this twisted helix
Leaves one pole and twists around towards the other
The chain of N moving one way, the chain of S moving
The other way
But lots and lots of these that accumulate to the large field
They lock together when you have multiple magnets
And you can bend them, build up pressure, and let them
Explode.
You can even stick the magnets together in a certain way
So they are always under pressure. And adding just one
More magnet, say from a passing rotor or cart,
Can cause them to explode. Magnetically speaking.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 12, 2017, 04:39:33 PM
Interesting position as well, Smoky.


About measurements, one common measurement error is this: people fully charge a Cap, then use it for a brief moment, then calculate the energy consumed by looking at the caps voltage drop, then they say like:
only 0.1V drop from 100.1 to 100.0 vdc, that equals (assuming a 1 farad cap):
1 * ((0.1 * 0.1) /2) = 0.005 joule
But that is totally wrong. What you need to calculate is:
(1*((100.1*100.1)/2)) - (1*((100*100)/2)), equals 10.005 joule.
It makes a huge diffrence whether you drop 0.1v at 100v, or at 1v.
I add this here because this cap measurement method is often used in conjunction with magnetic devices.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 13, 2017, 09:26:06 PM
Hi smOKY 2

QUOTE FROM smOKy 2

"The DNA helix is a good analogy. If this twisted helix
Leaves one pole and twists around towards the other
The chain of N moving one way, the chain of S moving
The other way  "  END QUOTE

Leaves the interior of the permanent magnet via the poles ....
                    yes

Qutoe
"But lots and lots of these that accumulate to the large field"
END QUOTE

           yes and probably in a very structured or organized manner

QUOITE
"They lock together when you have multiple magnets"
END QUOTE
                  yes two or more magnets
QUOTE
"And you can bend them, build up pressure, '
END QUOTE
                             yes we can bend the "lines of flux"
                             and also change their density.

QUOTE
"and let them Explode."
END QUOTE
               don't know what this means


QUOTE
"You can even stick the magnets together in a certain way
So they are always under pressure. And adding just one
More magnet, say from a passing rotor or cart,
Can cause them to explode. Magnetically speaking."
END QUOTE
                 I don't understand what you are saying here either.

                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 13, 2017, 09:29:57 PM
@dieter


  no worries... your not off topic.... especially when you return to how
                   it relates to the magnetic component
         
  Nice
           thanks and appreciateion for your perspectives.
             
 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 15, 2017, 04:31:26 AM
Thanks, Floor.


Another interesting observation I wasn't aware of, that I saw in a FEMM simulation, is, assuming FEMM is correct, when you place an iron shield in front of your magnet, the maximum field density that was at the Bloch wall has moved right into the iron bar, which is practicly stealing the field density from the PM.


If you place two PMs N vs S with a gap and in rhe gap the end of an iron bar, in 90deg angle, that' a bit thinner than the gap, both PMs will try to link with the ironbar, but one will eventually win. Depending on which one, the polarity of the iron bar will be swapped. And according to FEMM the iron bar will hold the highest field density.


Now consider we have a setup in which the gap is only 1mm... what enormous field density we have in there, and by moving the iron bar, or rigid sheet by only 0.5mm, well have complete polarity reversal in the iron bar. Although this requires the iron bar contact area to be saturated by one magnet.


Hmm, I got to test this in FEMM.


Yet another interesting observation: two PMs, N vs S, can use the Bloch wall of a third magnet to link their flux, in 90deg to the third magnet. I have no idea why the magnetic domains at the Bloch wall don't react to these forces.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 16, 2017, 09:54:09 PM
@Floor


Ok so you take a large magnet and a 2 small magnets
Put a small one forced opposite to the large
And glue or tape it there so it doesn't fly away
You may have to leave a little gap to get it just right
Depends on the two different magnets
Now when you approach this arrangement with the
Remaining small magnet, there are 3 field encounters
1) the small magnets field
2) the large magnets field
3) the cumulative field formed by the two occupying the
     same space.


By changing their physical orientation you can control how
The two individual fields affect the cumulative field, in such a
way that the warping caused by the approaching small magnet
Causes the cumulative field to change drastically.
This drastic change is like a spring releasing, because the two
magnets (or more) are forced to sit in a way that the cumulative
field is right on the edge of the drastic change. Just a tiny bit more
forcing and the cumulative field reorients itself.


By "explosion" I analogize the effect of a magnetic field change to
the order of tens to thousands of times.
Much more than the required forcing that caused the change.
When the smaller magnet is pulled out (or allowed to repel out)
The cumulative field reverts back to its "springy" state before you
caused the change.


Magnetically speaking, it explodes. (and resets)
The cumulative field will always morph to the gradient
of least resistance.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 16, 2017, 10:00:06 PM
@Dieter


If by "Bloch wall" you mean the neutral line in the 'center'
The dielectric inertial plane contains no net magnetism.
Although all of the flux passes through this region,
the very center has a uniform distribution of density
Thus there are (within a range or band) an equal and opposite
N & S within this region that cancel each other out completely



Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 17, 2017, 12:10:46 AM
@smOKY2

Thanks much for the expantion.
          floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 17, 2017, 01:56:52 AM
@ Smoky,


what I don't get is why does no flux linking occur?
Normally you would expect any field lines to bend and link to a close unlike pole, so one part of the Bloch wall inhabitants should bend to one external pole, the other part to the other pole.


Intrestingly, that may happen nevertheless, because when you do this with only one expernal magnet then aztracting and repelling forces do cancel eachother out, agreed. But if you use two, eg. a North to the right end of the Bloch wall and a South to the left side, then they stick at the bloch wall.


Even tho, FEMM shows fieldlines, passing right along the bloch wall, It seems more likely to me that the bloch wall itself links to the two poles.
I've noticed these two magnets stick at a lightly offset position, one a bit closer to PM1's North, the other one closer to south.


Here I have some interesting simulation shots that show how you can focus a magnetic field and achieve very high fieldstrengths, simply with an iron core of the right shape.


Notice ontop of this Neo magnet sticks a cylinder of Supermalloy, or pure iron of the same diameter. It's fieldstrength at any place barely reaches that of the permanent magnet, about 1 Tesla.


In the second shot there is a thin iron bar, close to the other end of the PM. Notice the fieldstrength of this bar, that reaches 2 Tesla.


And in the third shot there is still about 1.7 Tesla, despite a rather large airgap.


So shape does matter extremly.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 17, 2017, 07:59:43 PM
@dieter / SmOKY2

On page five of topic below is an    interesting / easy    Mobius strip experiment / explanation.

http://overunity.com/13783/proof-of-overunity-from-magnets-fixture-no-negative-work-aspect-lafonte/msg370730/#msg370730

Addendum.. 

                       ? : If it is neutral to other field lines, why doesn't a given field line just drift away into space ?
          Answer ? : Because it is not neutral... to the randomly polarized atoms in the magnet ?

         field actions (within / around) are not simply between like and un like poles...there is a third element involved
        (other than the electric)    It is the FIELD of the randomly polarized.

       ? If there are interactions between the either / vacuum and organized energy / matter...I seems to me
       that the INTERFACE between these two kinds of (energy ?) occurs through random ness in the
       ordinary / perceivable energy (our world).

I  look at it like this..... that magnet "shape" and the direction of approach between two magnets are both
"a kind of shape".     The one is fixed a constant (for the now)..... the other is a variable.
............................................................................................
I / we.... all  use the language but...

While I consider field lines a valuable and useful convention.... also I don't think of them as real world.....
Like this....

 A peice of lumber that is 2 inches by 4 inches by 48 inches long ....is not actually composed of
some things which we call inches and feet. 

Similarly...I don't hink of that region we call a magnetic field as being a thing, but rather it is a mathematical
construct....  A description of a three dimensional volume in space.. in which events can be measured / compared
in relation to their placement within this drawn 3 dimensions "field".

                              regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on February 17, 2017, 08:16:58 PM
Of course I totally agree, "field lines" are just useful to display density and orientation within this magnetic shape of gradient vector force. They are simple short terms and I guess you understand what I mean by them.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 17, 2017, 09:17:18 PM
Kind of relating back your DNA analogy
I look at the "field lines" as being a manifestation
Or reflection of individual magnetic field paths
From pole to pole, consisting of a helical construct
Containing oppositely transitioning N and S pole
Flux packets.


Which are, yes, ultimately propagated by individual atoms.
You bring up an interesting point with the 'randomness'
It is important to realize that, as best we try, not all of the
Atoms in our magnetic material are "magnetized" or polarized
In the desired vector. But rather a majority, that causes the
Cumulative field to orient in the desired vector.
By applying magnetic pressure to points along the field
Like from another magnet- you can change the shape of the field
Which is observable as a change in the pathways visible in
the field lines.


Some magneticians use the sense of touch to feel the shape and
intensity. Some use magnetic viewers of various sorts.
The FEMM simulation software generally mimics these patterns.
There is only one person on earth who can really see the field.
He tries to teach us as best he can, the FEMM people could
learn a thing or two about how to upgrade their software.


Until then, "lines" give us a pretty good view of the macro events.
So it usually works.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 18, 2017, 01:05:15 AM
@smOkY2  / Dieter

     I try to make sure that I restate this every now and again...

I am not an expert in magnets nor physics.

     But learning more all the time.
.........................................................
 I have no objections to using a language in common, just don't
want to get trapped in the words is all.

                        regards
                          regards
                            floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on February 18, 2017, 06:23:03 AM
In the essential sense, they are lines. But braided/twisted/helix lines
And very very tiny. We cannot really see them. We see an effect caused by
A multitude of them.  The more complex our viewers, the more "lines" we see.
When we get really good at making viewers, we start to see the real shape and form
that these lines make as they wrap through the field.


https://youtu.be/c-CbKHbH5QA (https://youtu.be/c-CbKHbH5QA)


And this
https://youtu.be/s9AU6IQE1uk (https://youtu.be/s9AU6IQE1uk)
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 04:53:48 PM

The word flux has as one of its meanings ...................."change".
In that context it wouldn't make sense to say ..........."a change in the flux"
                                     or                    ........................"a change in the change" either.

In the context ... directly of magnet fields... there are in general .... several kinds of usage for
the word line. 

1. a line drawn to show a vector direction

2. the number of lines ASSIGNED to specific field density.  (arbitrarily agreed to)
                   (these are the standard which we call "field lines)

3. lines seen when iron filings are sprinkled over a paper covering a magnet.
                   (caused by the polar alignments of the iron pieces their selves) 
                                          (these are not the "field lines" per say)

4. A single line supposed (at least by me), to be helical..... and yes very very tiny indeed.
composed of (some how linked... photons / particle waves)
         (The photon is held by scientific convention to be the intermediary of all electromagnetic events)

5. These helical, photonic, lines, twisting together and taking the form of a....
larger though over all.... less tightly coiled helix ...

These can be can be large enough...to be visible to the human eye (but are not actually visible).

6. regions of low density lines (linear holes) (projections the effects of / from the Bloch walls....not real lines per say)
between the high density compoundly helical photonic structures (lines)

Groups of two kinds of lines (5 and 6)  forming both, higher density (lines) and lower density (holes)
regions in the field...and their effect upon light....is seen in the devices presented in Tehoria's demonstrations.
....................................................
A demonstration of a compoundly helical form.

1. Clamp one end a long (round in cross section) shoe string into a bench vice.
2. twist /spin the free end of the string, by rolling it between the palms of your hands.
The string will (after some amount of twisting) begin to "kink".
3. Do not allow the string to unwind.  Hold the free end between two fingers.
4. With your free hand, pinch /grasp the twisted string between to fingers, (at its middle)
then bring  the free end of the string over to its other end (which is clamped in the vice).
5. Release the middle of the string from your grasp (only the middle).
6 Prevent the ends from untwisting as you remove the one end from the bench vice.

You should now have two helices twisted together.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 10:02:28 PM
@Dieter
................................
Inside the body of an iron magnet there are three, below, considered, regions.

1. the magnetic polar randomly aligned iron atoms.
2. the magnetic polar aligned iron atoms (magnetic domains)
3. the block walls

The Bloch walls interact with both the random polar elements, and the polar atomic
/ domain elements, but differently with each.

The Bloch wall shields one domain from another in a manner similar to the actions
in pass through TD designs.   Not as a kind of shielding which would simply block the
passage of a magnetic energy flow.  Rather the Bloch wall has polarities distributed
around its circumference, which by the closeness of their proximity to one another,
tend to simultaneously present both attractions and repulsion in near balance) to either
a north or a south pole that approaches the Bloch wall.


The Bloch wall is both the atoms in it and the field it presents.

The polar arrangement of the atoms in a Bloch wall is a helix.

The field around its circumference would not be helical, but more like
a cross hatch (a tick tac toe) complex.

The Bloch walls exist only on the inside of the magnet, their effects extend to out side of
the magnet.

The Bloch wall has no photon "emissions" from its ends which would leave the magnet.
But the wall may effect the external magnetic field  (creates a hole in it).

(

Although I previously stated (in error) that the ends of a Bloch wall (both a N and S
pole is there) reacts magnetically with the exterior elements.  It should have said.... the end is
self sealing / forms a closed magnetic loop.

 Rather it is the helical lines in the field from the domains which readily interact at their ends.
.............................................................
The atom in domains are polar aligned end to end N/S N/S N/S........
The domains are also polar aligned end to end N/S N/S N/S........

The photon "emissions" from domains / magnets, which cause magnetic attraction / repulsion force
are helical.
......................................
All three regions have electric charge interactions (ionic or covalant bonding)
the "chemical". 

And again ...............this is just my take on a model.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 10:21:45 PM
@Dieter

In regar to compression within the magnetic field...

https://youtu.be/kbDo-40LTkk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbDo-40LTkk

There are lots and lost of related videos.

              floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 19, 2017, 10:53:26 PM
@Dieter

Quote from Dieter

"Yet another interesting observation: two PMs, N vs S, can use the Bloch wall of a third magnet to link their flux, in 90deg to the third magnet. I have no idea why the magnetic domains at the Bloch wall don't react to these forces." 

end quote
..............................................
paraphrased quote....

Two PMs, N vs S, can use a third magnet as a  Bloch wall.

end paraphrased quote
..............................................
They do react.  The net force is zero, because attractions and repulsions are in balance.

They do "react" but  in a magnetic loop ....while exerting little or no external force,
along specific force vectors.....

while also exerting great force in some other force vectors...

but if properly physically restrained.... can not do work / expend energy along those
" some other vectors"....

             floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 08, 2017, 11:22:39 PM
@ all readers

This latest addition to the magnets motion and measurements project,
is a detailed explanation of how to calculate the work done by a force that is
changing with distance.  (like a magnetic force).


Please find the attached file   "MagnetForceIntegration 2.PDF"

     best wishes
             floor


Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on March 10, 2017, 02:23:32 AM
Thanks Floor, downloaded, will read later.


A little thought of mine, that I'd like to share with you just here:


Simple proof for PMs being able to provide overunity:


Take a PM, lay it down on a table, then lay on it a coreless coil, such as a pancake. Now give a brief DC pulse of an exact amount of energy to the coil, so it will be repelled from the PM and jump up a certain height, which you will measure precisely.


Now take a much bigger, stronger PM to replace the one on the table. Do the exact same test again with the coil. The coil jumps higher! Where does the additional energy come from? From the PM! Got any other explanation? Hehe, thought so.


Total repulsion force is that of the coil and that of the PM. Only the PM is virtually inexhaustible.


Based on that thought, we should be able to increase torque solely by adding more PM strength.


Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 10, 2017, 04:55:29 PM
@ All readers

new video.
It shows an effective magnet shield in action.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x5eg7kk_magnetshield-1_tech

As far as I'm concerned, this is all open source and public domain.
All in common...that's the only real over unity there is. 

     Thanks for all of your good input dieter

                 Peace... Out
                     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on March 10, 2017, 07:02:14 PM
Very interesting, Floor. Did you injure your thumb between them magnets? :)


Now as usual, only measurements will tell whether there is any real gain. Which I hope very much.


Maybe you need to do the rasterization of push/pull force at any millimeter of both, shield motion and repulsion of both stacks.


But I take it you mean it when you say it's "very easy" to remove the shield.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 12, 2017, 01:14:21 AM
 @Dieter

A magnet in close proximity to the coil changes the characteristics
of the coil.  The inductance (reluctance at the start of current flow) and
(reactive voltage spike, once  the voltage is turned off)  are both changed. 

It's difficult to demonstrate that precisely the same amount of electrical power
would be transferred in each of the two scenarios.

There are years of argument on the forum over this subject.

This is why I stick to force and displacement by magnets.

These basics physical properties and their measurement can not be disputed  ....
at least not REASONABLY.

          The thumb is doing fine.
              regards
                      floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: dieter on March 15, 2017, 12:21:28 AM
@Floor, of course, the all PM drive is the Holy Grail of free energy. But I am so desperste, I take everything that brings me closer to the aim.


Collapsing field can be useful, if the coil is turned off right when the magnet passes it eg.: attract by DC pulse, then repell by collapsing fields Back MMF.


Or the Back MMF of collapsing field can be suppressed by a diode.


There is a Lenz drag, but it is a secondary (=weaker) field, opposing not the input power, but the PM, and this only partially.


Whatever science says, never forget: Mankind is stupid and perfectly capable of missing fundamental basics.


Also when it comes to PMs, so it is really the attitude that makes us progressive, inspired or resigning. We crashed on the planet of the apes and we were just told by the ape leaders that "Magnetism" is delusional nonexisting nonsense...


Despite their fancy parade uniforms, I tend to question the truth in every word, coming from those leaders. Because they shaped this world.


Ahh, I' babbling ^^


You know I never lost hope. I may do some alternating hobby activities, so I don't slip into a manic free energy fixation (just because that's not enjoyable), but I never gave up hope. Because hope dies last.


kr
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 18, 2017, 12:22:40 AM
@Dieter

I'm not done yet either.

I'll put together / refine the next section  of the
magnets motion and measurements book (this topic).
That next section will begin with constant force over distance,
and integration of a force changing with distance explanations.
.........................
Then I'll do a presentation of a measurement set of the magnetic force shield,
(in that topic) and also in the (all magnet motor TD based topic).

                regards
                      floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 12, 2017, 10:20:20 PM
@All readers

          Here is my most recent revision of part one of the
                  "Magnets motion and measurement"   book.

It is still undergoing revisions and corrections.  The most recent
changes begin at the last section of page 43, and continue through
page 45's upper part.  That new / corrected material gives an explanation of
and breadown down of,  the formula Ek = 1/2 mass x velocity^2.

This is a work in progress.

Corrections to and inputs to the pjoject are welcomed.
Thanks again, to those who have allready contributed.

I now consider part one as complete.

Part 2 is in the works.

                       Please find the attached file "MeasPhy(10-T).pdf file.

                regards
                          floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 16, 2017, 09:43:01 PM
Thanks guys for the proof reads...

please find the    most recent ..... attached  "MeasPhy(10-T-b).pdf" file

   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 21, 2017, 07:05:17 PM
Please find the most recent version of part 1 of the "MeasPhy(10-U).pdf" book

As per usual please discard previous versions.

          regards
                   floor

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 25, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
I'm going to begin posting part 2 of this project.

Below is the final PDF draft of part 1... MeasPhy(10-V).PDF

    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on June 21, 2017, 07:36:24 PM
This is the latest draft of the Magnets, Motion and Measurement book

                           version "MeasPhy(10-v). pdf" .....  date  (6-21-17)  Part 1

It has only minor revisions, from the last version. 

I have not found any serious errors in the previous version.(10-7-b).pdf.

                                                 BUT

I have made some minor, but worthwhile improvements / clarifications to a few parts of it.

I am working on part 2, and will present it in pieces, as it progresses. 

Part two will begin with "Magnet Force Measurement, Some Methods and Math".

Please discard all previous version of the the project and please do not redistribute it,
as this is still a work in progress.

                      best wishes
                                   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: boogyboy1998 on October 23, 2017, 08:00:58 AM
a switch can actually produce electromagnetic interaction. some switch can produce this interaction and cause a great effect in different types of equipment. Like for example, water generator can be used with switched as is may function accordingly to the switch being placed on the generator. This switch https://www.abestmeter.com/thermal-flow-switch/ (https://www.abestmeter.com/thermal-flow-switch/) Digital Thermal Flow Switch can actually produce electromagnetic interaction inside the generator and in the water as well.
 
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 25, 2017, 03:25:04 PM
@Boogyboy

Is this the wrong topic you have posted on ?

   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 25, 2017, 03:28:47 PM
Please find the attached file

"MeasPhy(10-w). pdf" .....  date  (10-25-17)  Part 1

                   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 20, 2017, 08:26:06 PM
         Please find below...
       
              1 PDF file

       the first draft of part 2 of the

   "Magnets Motion and Measurement"  book

   These are first drafts.... please do not redistribute them.

         Feed back / corrections to the project are welcome
         Thanks also...   to those who helped edit/improve part 1
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 03, 2017, 10:21:53 PM
Here is the next piece of  "part 2"  of the "magnets motion and measurement" book.

Please find below.... the attached, inverse Square PDF, file.

As per usual... please do not redistribute the materials, as they are still works in progress.

          best wishes
                     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 06, 2017, 03:06:25 AM
I try to make these statements on my topics occasionally.

I am not a expert on these subjects.

Polite, but also preferably direct and straight to the point correction are welcomed.
No guessing games please.

These projects are drafts, please do not redistribute them

Please find the attached "MeasPhy(10-y).pdf

                          best wishes
                                      floor
                                           
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 10, 2017, 06:51:38 PM
This is my last version of part one of the "
magnets Motionand Measurement"
                     book.

I not going to make any further revisions to this "the part 1". 
I am for the present satisfied with all of the corrections of my
wonderful mistakes and missunderstandings (in these contexts).

Anyone may (if they find these explanations satifactory)
redistribute those pages.

Please find the attached file



Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: LabDeSyn on December 13, 2017, 05:39:12 PM
It is a pleasure to share my latest project where magnets, motion and measurement are coming together
in a DIY project. The Donut Motor is powered by a 3V lithium cell with a 235 mAh capacity.
The pulse motor runs for 2 years on a single coin cell with a current of 13 uA. It is great to enter my
lab and see this motor running day after day. The investigation is going on to get the current as low I can.
Here is the video of the project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHUPlm5yQ3U

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 13, 2017, 09:08:16 PM

What is it, that you hope to demonstrate with your motor project ?
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: LabDeSyn on December 13, 2017, 09:59:41 PM
@Floor, I was hoping the video gives that answer in a practical way. Reading your opening of this thread and your definition of the topic, I anticipate with an apparatus where energy, work, force, power and the methods of their measurement can be in discussion. It is easy to stay in abstractions. I learned a lot about magnets and their interactions by building this pulse motor.
I hope you, and more people at this forum, start building the Donut motor. Maybe we come to a point that conventional scientific descriptions cannot explain the behavior, why this machine, in the near future, can run without any explainable input. That is in short what I hope to demonstrate with my motor project. Any reaction at this project from your side is welcome.


Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 15, 2017, 09:04:12 PM
@LabDeSyn

I would prefer it if you will start a seperate topic which is for your Doughnut motor.

In a very general way, almost any thing can be considered in a context of m m and m.

And while a pulse motor is surly more so conected to this topic than... say electro chemistry or
magnetic recording tape, it still remains as essentially off topic.

    best wishes with your project
                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 15, 2017, 09:16:26 PM
Addendum

Measurement of electrical power,  electric motor power consumption,
the complexities of electric wave forms (pulsed or other wise) are beyond
and out side of the scope of this topic.

Investigations as complex as those, can be found in very many of the other topics on this forum.

This topic is under the heading of "mechanical"

Again, please start a topic specific to your project if you wish input / interaction in those
more complex areas.
                               floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 15, 2017, 09:18:03 PM
@All readers

     To my mind the purpose of philosophy, is that the individual practitioner shall arrive at .....  understanding the limitations of reason.
     Even at the very beginnings of the undertaking to scientifically examine this world,
we find  implications of an infinity and an eternity all around us, and that we are not truly separate from that eternity.

                            Centuries ago, Galileo pondered action at distance.   
.................................................................................................
                                                Speaking only for myself
     Newton's laws of motion have always seemed incomplete, incorrect, contradictory or simply not possible .... though useful.
...
     Within the texts of the Magnets Motion and Measurement book, part 1,  I make the following statement as well as other paraphrasing / similar statements.

     "An object at rest does not begin to move at some given speed. That object must accelerate in order to reach a given speed."
...
     An object at rest, when it at first begins to accelerate,  must begin to move at SOME speed.

                   If it at first begins to move,  what is that speed at which it first moves ?

                                      Does it accelerate in order to reach that speed ?

                      That speed,  must be greater than zero, if it is any speed at all.

     Can it begin to move at some speed, any speed, even if that speed is infinitely near to zero
with out having accelerated from some other lesser speed ?
     Does an accelerating object at first begin to move at some infinitesimally small speed within
some infinitesimally small amount of time, and does it reach that speed absolutely instantaneously and without acceleration ?

                            Do objects begin their accelerations via quantum leaps ?
...
           Even physic's most exotic "particles", are I think, more common even than dirt.

Is it   or    is it not fact  that ....
the ordinary objects around us are constantly transcending time and space at the sub atomic particle level ?

Is it or is it not a fact that ....
the basis for all events which we observe and from which we take the experiences ,  by which define our own selves, are some how transcendent of time even though in that transcendence, they are the very basis for time ?
...
                                        Peace on Earth good will toward men
                                                                             floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 16, 2017, 02:44:35 AM
Is it possible to have an object that is ‘not’ in motion?


Everything we mere humans have observed, is in motion.


Where would we put it, that it would not then be accelerated?


If we did put this “motionless object” somewhere,
Would not that very space be in motion?

This is not considering our own relative motion
(Which could very well be hundreds of thousands of mph)


Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 16, 2017, 11:42:56 PM
Hi Sm0ky2

If one is completely stopped....

while the rest of the universe is a linear motion,
it seem then, the universe both approaches, and speeds away some unknown speed.

May be 1/C2 ,  If light speed is the absolute maximum.

If the rest of the universe is in a rotational motion, the closer one is to its center,
the slower any thing nearby is moving.
................................................
But in terms of.....
Picturing an acceleration within a local inertial reference frame....

An object which begins to move from a state of rest, must BEGIN to move at SOME speed.
And it seems to me that, THAT speed must be accelerated to,  absolutely instantaneously, even if
THAT speed is a very slow one.

This (from my perspective) is one reason, why newtons laws remain as only approximations.
Valid in the macro world, and at RELATIVE speeds.... which are much less than the speed of light.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: sm0ky2 on December 16, 2017, 11:56:35 PM
The point I was trying to make, is that regardless of our inertial frame
of reference or the relative perspective we view the object from,
It cannot be motionless, by any universal absolute.


Therefore, we must be accelerating the object from some unknown speed
(referenced as 0 only to us), up to some other unknown speed.
(Which we reference as 0+#)


The rate of acceleration is clearly defined.
And not instantaneous.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 26, 2017, 05:30:18 PM
@Smoky2

Interesting points you make.

Yes, we don't know of any thing which can be defined as "motionless, by any universal absolute".
                             however
I cannot say either, that it can    or      "It cannot be motionless, by any universal absolute."
                                but
I doesn't matter, which context ..... "universal"       or      within a local reference frame.
It doesn't matter, which context ......  an absolute / universal speed of zero  or a relative speed of zero
                             The essence of my statements remain unchanged.

It doesn't even matter,  If I had context-ed the acceleration as beginning from some initial value (X),
while within some specific frame of reference............. rather than as (zero) while within some specific frame of reference.
                             The essence of my statements remain unchanged.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 11, 2018, 12:49:16 AM
I spent a little more time on the Magnets Motion and Measurement book (part 1)
and did some clean up and  rearranging.

Please find the attached file below.

             best wishes 
                   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 11, 2018, 01:14:15 AM
PLEASE DO NOT DOWNLOAD THE FILE ABOVE

My apologies for having uploaded the wrong file above.  Please do not
bother to download it.  It was mislabeled and is not the latest revision.

Please find instead the latest version below

                 regards
                      floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 21, 2018, 07:10:37 PM
I did some more restructureing, clean up, and one minor addition ... to
the  Magnets Motion and Measurement part 1-3.

  Please find the attached Magnets Motion and Measurement part 1-4

The last version was pretty sound, but this version is improved.

    Thanks for your interest. I hope it will serve well.
               best wishes
                        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 12, 2018, 03:18:32 PM

Except for some uncertainties I have about the math processes  ... I feel pretty satisfied with these last
editions.   I have access to a Berkeley mathematics (PHD) (for a fee would check my work)
I would rather keep it in house and for free ... if there is a someone, who would enjoy checking my work for free (doesn't require a PHD).

     Please find the attached  file   "Magnets Motion and Measurement part 1  -  5

This version doesn't significantly differ from the last two.
 
                floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on May 09, 2018, 03:55:28 PM
Minor additions to the last version
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on August 19, 2018, 09:03:33 PM
The next part of the "Magnets Motion and Measurement" book

Titled "diminishing return"

             best wishes
                       floo
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 21, 2018, 11:01:47 PM
The next parts of the Magnets Motion and Measurement book  still part 1
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 21, 2018, 11:03:36 PM
more stuff
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 21, 2018, 11:04:52 PM
more again
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 21, 2018, 11:09:25 PM
more of more
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 21, 2018, 11:15:15 PM
Staring at the bottom of the previous page of this topic (page 5)

A lot of new parts to the Magnets Motion and Measurement book besides what is on this page.

All as attached PDF file

           regards
               floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2018, 12:28:27 AM
One might be inclined to feel that a file titled "Magnet Basics" will be of no interest,
but then you might be surprised to (earlier post)

3 more files

         floor

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2018, 12:29:08 AM
next part
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 22, 2018, 12:30:24 AM
third of 3 part file

     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 24, 2018, 08:01:49 PM
@ All readers

What's in these PDF files ?
................................................
Simple and easy to understand drawings and explanations.
The how and why of magnets from basics to fairly complex.
................................................
A suggested order of reading

Magnets Motion and Measurement part 1-6-2.PDF
Magnetic force Measurement.PDF
ForceGraphing 2-2c.PDF
Diminishing Return 2-2b.PDF
InverseSquare 1bPn.PDF
InverseSquare 2G2Pn.PDF
MagnetBasicsCombined 1-5.PDF
Mirror Engine 4new 1, 2 and 3 PDF files
La fonte Pseudo Solid Motor V2 PDF
La Fonte Pseudo Solid Explained 7 PDF
................................................
Magnets Motion and Measurement part 1-6-2.PDF

Explains some basic physics and is written for people
interested in doing home experiments related to alternative energy.
In particular, it is written for those who have an interest in magnets
and their interactions.

                        TOPICS COVERED

ENERGY, INERTIAL FRAME OF REFERENCE, SPEED, VELOCITY, GRAVITY, FORCE,
ACCELERATION, THE FORCES OF ACCELERATION,  CONSTANT ACCELERATION,
ACCELERATION BY GRAVITY, INERTIA, MOMENTUM, MASS, WEIGHT, MASS V WEIGHT,
THE NEWTON, WORK, THE JOULE, ASPECT RATIO, TIME, POWER
................................................
Magnetic force Measurement.PDF

How to measure / determine the amount of energy in simple magnet interactions.
Calculating displacement and force inputs and outputs as energy.
................................................
ForceGraphing 2-2c.PDF

Examples of how to calculate the amount of energy in displacement and force
interactions.
................................................
Diminishing Return 2-2b.PDF

Intended to give the home experimenter some idea of how much precision to use
when measuring magnet interactions.
................................................
InverseSquare 1bPn.PDF
InverseSquare 2G2Pn.PDF

A fairly detailed explanation of what the inverse Square law is.

This applies to magnetic force decreasing as the distance from a magnet increases.
................................................
MagnetBasicsCombined 1-5.PDF

Explains magnetic domains, Bloch walls, certain other aspects of magnets which an
experimenter will find useful. Some little known magnet interactions, facts and
explanations. 
................................................
Mirror Engine 4new 1, 2 and 3 PDF files
An informative study of magnets interactions and Over Unity.
................................................
La Fonte Pseudo Solid Motor V2 PDF
A design as explained to me, by user GammaRayBurst at the OverUnity.com forum
To my knowledge, no one has to date, measured the work in to work out of this design.
................................................
La Fonte Pseudo Solid Explained 7 PDF
An interesting and illuminating set of designs, magnet interactions / principles
also as explained by user GammaRayBurst at the OverUnity.com forum.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 25, 2018, 09:00:44 PM
@ all readers

Please find the attached PDF files

Suggested order of reading


RightAngleSlide.PDF
MagneticForceNeutralizer 1.PDF
Rack action.PDF
ForceBalancingVariations.PDF
CombinedNeutralizedUnits.PDF
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 25, 2018, 09:03:19 PM
Two more of the files

      floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on September 27, 2018, 01:02:16 AM
Sounds interesting, but have you tried doing the actual measurements ?
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 27, 2018, 09:13:23 PM
@Telecom

QUOTE from Telecom
  "Sounds interesting, but have you tried doing the actual measurements ?"
END QUOTE
................. ............. .............. .........

What is it that you find "sounds interesting" about the presentations.

Have you ever presented a similar measurement process, here on the OU forum ?
             If so What measurements would you like to see ?
             If so will you describe for me, a precise set of measurement procedures which
             which would be adequate to hold your attention ?

What tolerances would you consider as adequate and why ?

 

@ All readers

About the PNG file immediately below ........

Don't read it if:
1. you're not in the mood for some deep thinking
2. you're at a location where it might be deemed as inappropriate
    if you are laughing out loud.


             and please
                   remember to share
                       
                                      floor



Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 27, 2018, 09:28:10 PM
The file wouldn't upload
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on September 27, 2018, 11:55:15 PM
@Telecom

QUOTE from Telecom
  "Sounds interesting, but have you tried doing the actual measurements ?"
END QUOTE
................. ............. .............. .........

What is it that you find "sounds interesting" about the presentations.

Have you ever presented a similar measurement process, here on the OU forum ?
             If so What measurements would you like to see ?
             If so will you describe for me, a precise set of measurement procedures which
             which would be adequate to hold your attention ?

What tolerances would you consider as adequate and why ?

 

Floor

This is quite obvious, that the interesting part is the ability to turn off  magnetic attraction
(or repulsion) using above mentioned shields.
For example, magnets can produce tremendous output working in one direction, but require the same input to return them into the initial position.
If this input is illuminated using shields, than the problem is resolved.
The simplest would be to compare the effort of inserting and removing the shield with the
work produced by the attraction ( or repulsion).
Since you already have the apparatus in place, this shouldn't be that big of a task.
In order to provide the procedure, I would need to take a closer look at your setup
( but  by no means I consider myself a bigger expert than you in this field, or perhaps another member of this forum).
In terms of the tolerances, they should be within the reasonable precision of the
measuring instrument at hand - I hope that the difference between the input and output
can be easily detected.
Regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on September 28, 2018, 09:01:28 PM
@Telecom

I'm not an expert, just a learner.

The test bench is knocked down (its modular) pretty easy to set up though.
I'll need to  calibrate  and  level it.
I will also need to fill with water / calibrate my weight sets (bottles).
Before any of this I need to clear my work bench / shop   of other project remnants.

I don't have access to the triple beam balance I used to use, but I have a high precision, reliable, digital scales in its place.
 
The test bed does not have a cross sliding unit.  Consequently I can only do the measurements
by repositioning the magnet sets.  This works fine, just takes a little effort.... and labeling the magnets
so that the same magnets are in their original positions as shield,  stator and sliding magnets respectively.


I'll post once I'm set up.
                floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on September 28, 2018, 09:37:56 PM
This looks very good, but ideally your shield magnets should be as thin as possible,
as you've mentioned in the video.
In addition, you can use a variable diameter cams to compensate for non
linear force distribution, I believe you wrote about this option before.
But this will take much more work.
Looking forward for the results.
Regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 08, 2018, 11:13:10 PM
@Telecom

Up date......

I have had house guests, am bogged down with some other tasks right now and hardly spending any time on line.

Please be patient, I have some other measurement sets that are also motivating me toward getting the test bench set back up.


   thanks for your inquiries / suggestions

                     I will respond  as soon as I have something to respond with.

                            regards
                                   flor
 
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on October 09, 2018, 10:37:55 PM
Hi Floor,
not to worry,
I'm prepared to wait as long as it takes.
Regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 11, 2018, 10:23:22 PM
@Telecom

       Test bench is set up

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6v9zkz

           floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on October 11, 2018, 11:33:34 PM
Both videos say :"explicit content, age restricted".
I wonder where the lower limit is - 65?
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 12, 2018, 03:03:24 PM
Sorry I'll try it again
   

 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 12, 2018, 03:12:52 PM
Try this one ...its re named.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6vbmvo
my fault cliked the wrong button at daily motion.com I think  ?

           this one is also working now

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an   
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on October 13, 2018, 06:52:14 PM
Very interesting indeed.
So, in your second video both magnets are in the repulsion mode,
if I understood correctly.
Then, the work of 105 x 22 causes work of 120 x 40 to take place.
Which is basically double of the original effort.
This is puzzling, to say the least...
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 13, 2018, 09:43:41 PM
105 grams by 22 degrees equivalent of fall on the slideing weight

115 grams by 40 degrees of lifting of the rotateing weight.

   cyclically repeatable.

Of corse there coul be a lead weight under the cap of the SL bottle
or a hidden wire or an elctro magnet hidden in the floor or bench.

Some  kind of fakery or its real ?  The only way one can know for certain,
is to see it in person.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on October 15, 2018, 01:19:04 AM
Can you please describe magnets which you've used?
Have you tried different types of the magnets?
Thanks
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 15, 2018, 08:37:54 PM
They are commonly sold at hardware stores. see also ........

https://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/msg489791/#msg489791

Just in case you are thinking to give credit for this stuff to some fictitious
internet character "floor"... 

Floor has played a role as a kind of translator, draftsman, student and front man, with
our intent to gradually introduce certain understandings into the mass consciousness,
but the facts are.....

We are an elite global consortium of ascended masters, physicists, clergymen, engineers,
bench techs,  house wives, handymen, convenience store clerks, cowboys, Indians and bums. 

We see proof of miracles in the form of everyday life.  We have opened our eyes and choose
light rather darkness, love rather than fear, and freedom rather than taking a side at Armageddon.

The great work is just beginning but this is only because the truth springs eternally
new.  We are the ones we have been waiting for.  The technology itself is barely even
significant.

          peace out
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 29, 2018, 08:05:27 PM

TDForceDiagramed at dailymotion.com

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6vzwz5

          floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 29, 2018, 08:48:34 PM
A link to a set of Twist Drive measurements.  They are way over unity.

https://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/msg491395/#msg491395

........................................
 Landing is launching 

Forward is Over Unity ......... Backward is Under Unity ...  but either way the TD device  not unity.

The device should have a spinning  thingy, or a flashing thingy... 

But it doesn't... it only has a thumping bottle thingy.... and honestly the "undeniable" video is some what misleading.....
When all of the measurements are done ..... they show under unity, not over unity... but launching is landing is launching is landing.

             floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 30, 2018, 08:10:55 PM
One more TD video

https://dai.ly/x6wfkrm

   I will return to the Mag force shield next.
           floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on October 31, 2018, 02:26:49 AM
Thanks Floor,
I'm seriously considering making a similar, but  simplified set up,
just to get a feel of what's going on.
I have a 3d printer, which can help with some custom parts.
Best regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on October 31, 2018, 06:56:09 PM
@Telecom

Rock on
       floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 02, 2018, 09:47:20 PM
These video links have been giving me fits.

Re posting this link

TDForceDiagramed at dailymotion.com

    at

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6wfk0d

     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 13, 2018, 09:39:58 PM
Here is a a PDF file "Magnet force shield attraction 11-8-18"

I am building a cross slide module for my test bed.  This magnet orientation / set up uses
pole to pole orientations for the fixed and sliding magnets and a "polar checker board"
configuration for the shield magnet array.   The shield is very effective and output
forces are around 4 times greater than in previous videos.


                     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on November 14, 2018, 02:43:02 AM
Here is a a PDF file "Magnet force shield attraction 11-8-18"

I am building a cross slide module for my test bed.  This magnet orientation / set up uses
pole to pole orientations for the fixed and sliding magnets and a "polar checker board"
configuration for the shield magnet array.   The shield is very effective and output
forces are around 4 times greater than in previous videos.


                     floor
Looks very promising, but it would be nice to see the actual measurements.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 19, 2018, 09:59:19 PM


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xgiez
        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 20, 2018, 08:33:02 PM
Looks very promising, but it would be nice to see the actual measurements.

It would be nice to see you put your entitlements in check to.
Got any thing to contribute ?

           floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 20, 2018, 08:39:32 PM
posted 11/11/18


@Telecom

       Test bench is set up

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6v9zkz

           floor

                   https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 20, 2018, 08:59:43 PM


https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xihh7

   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on November 20, 2018, 11:01:13 PM
Hi Floor,
I have nothing to contribute yet, unfortunately my 3D printer requires a new print head,
waiting for the part.
Nevertheless, I'm following your progress with an enormous attention.
I want to make my test bed similar to yours to avoid surprises.
Best regards.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 20, 2018, 11:41:12 PM


A word to the wise, about inconsistent magnet strengths.


                         https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xinsj7

                         floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 20, 2018, 11:46:49 PM
video didn't load, try again

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xinsj

                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 20, 2018, 11:51:03 PM
Hi Floor,
I have nothing to contribute yet, unfortunately my 3D printer requires a new print head,
waiting for the part.
Nevertheless, I'm following your progress with a great attention.
I want to make my test bed similar to yours to avoid surprises.
Best regards.

                Best  regards also
                      floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on November 21, 2018, 12:36:09 AM
Here is a a PDF file "Magnet force shield attraction 11-8-18"

I am building a cross slide module for my test bed.  This magnet orientation / set up uses
pole to pole orientations for the fixed and sliding magnets and a "polar checker board"
configuration for the shield magnet array.   The shield is very effective and output
forces are around 4 times greater than in previous videos.


                     floor
would be interesting to know the magnitude of the force of the inserting and removing the sliding shield.
Regards
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 25, 2018, 03:56:23 PM
short video

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xgiez

                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: F6FLT on November 26, 2018, 10:26:15 AM
What is interesting is not only the magnitude of the force, but the work of the force, i. e. the energy.
Force alone is misleading. For example, the force exerted on a magnet sliding away parallel to another magnet is less than the force exerted when the magnets separate perpendicularly. Nevertheless the work is the same.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on November 26, 2018, 11:41:03 PM

Force alone is misleading. For example, the force exerted on a magnet sliding away parallel to another magnet is less than the force exerted when the magnets separate perpendicularly. Nevertheless the work is the same.

I think the other way around, perpendicular separation produces almost no effort.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on November 27, 2018, 08:42:22 PM
To determine the work / energy expended in simple magnet interactions...

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg525821/#msg525821

etcetera ........
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Low-Q on December 10, 2018, 06:43:33 PM
posted 11/11/18


                   https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an (https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an)
Since you posted this at my birthday, i want to make a comment :)
Is the sliding magnet suppose to lift up a bit so it can repel the stationary magnet when they are close to each other?
If so, and when you adjust the slide by reducing friction, you can place a spring where the slide can bounce back after repulsion. The slide magnet has dropped down to initial level at this point.
Then at this position it should not be any forces to prevent the slide to repeat the cycle (??) - just thoughts.


Vidar
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 11, 2018, 11:24:01 PM


QUOTE
"would be interesting to know the magnitude of the force of the inserting and removing the sliding shield."
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 04:47:18 AM by telecom »

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

less than 4 grams force is applied
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 11, 2018, 11:25:50 PM
@Vidar

  Sorry I missed your post until now.

    I don't understand your question
         regards
         floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Low-Q on December 12, 2018, 08:17:12 AM
@Vidar

  Sorry I missed your post until now.

    I don't understand your question
         regards
         floor
Neither did I, LOL :) . I missed out something that made my question just dumb. What I asked for, was when you lift the moving magnet up, so more of south poles is facing eachother, you will get repulsion, but the moving magnet is forced down, and not neutral in the vertical plane even if it is neutral in the horizontal plane.


Vidar
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 13, 2018, 08:32:40 PM
Neither did I, LOL :) . I missed out something that made my question just dumb. What I asked for, was when you lift the moving magnet up, so more of south poles is facing eachother, you will get repulsion, but the moving magnet is forced down, and not neutral in the vertical plane even if it is neutral in the horizontal plane.


Vidar

Yes "not neutral in the vertical plane even if it is neutral in the horizontal plane."

Force is present in the vertical direction, but.... there is no work / energy expenditure required in the vertical directions.
Only increased friction upon the sliding track system.  That force can be neutralized by utilization of dual / magnetically isolated / mechanically linked units.

illustrated explained here         https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/dlattach/attach/169684/

                        regards
                         floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Low-Q on December 14, 2018, 11:47:09 AM
Maybe you should use V-slot wheels which can roll upon the steel rods, instead of sliding bearings? V-slot wheels would decrease friction to almost zero, and easier for you to examine the forces from the magnets. Link to a V slot wheel with ballbearing.
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB15NTULpXXXXcoXVXXq6xXFXXXH/SWMAKER-Openbuilds-5-m-t-Mini-V-Delrin-B-nh-Xe-r-ng-r-c-mini.jpg_640x640.jpg



Vidar
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 28, 2018, 08:39:41 PM
Seventeen videos showing how to get energy from magnets cyclically.

https://www.dailymotion.com/search/seethisvid/videos

Also the latest design illustration below
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on December 28, 2018, 08:46:01 PM
@ Allreaders

Beginning on page 5 of this topic there are numerous pdf files that explain these magnet interactions and
how to apply them in order to achieve OU results.

              floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on December 28, 2018, 11:04:47 PM
Seventeen videos showing how to get energy from magnets cyclically.

https://www.dailymotion.com/search/seethisvid/videos

Also the latest design illustration below

Would be nice to have something resembling a working drawing with the dimensions and specs for the magnets.
Is it too much to ask for?
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 02, 2019, 09:06:08 PM
Would be nice to have something resembling a working drawing with the dimensions and specs for the magnets.
Is it too much to ask for?

So far every request you have made of me... was all ready answered some where in the topics.  Would be nice if you
stopped asking, and read the topics instead....

The exception was perhaps that... I had not stated that 4 grams is the approximate force / movement threshold of the sliding unit.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 02, 2019, 09:09:48 PM
@  Some details of some of the designs.

Please find the attached 2 PDF files below.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on January 02, 2019, 11:25:12 PM
So far every request you have made of me... was all ready answered some where in the topics.  Would be nice if you
stopped asking, and read the topics instead....

The exception was perhaps that... I had not stated that 4 grams is the approximate force / movement threshold of the sliding unit.
Sorry to say that, but I found your diagrams to be very short on detail,
as well as your demos.
For example, even your rack and pinion arrangement looks more like a child scribble.
rather than something people can use to make a working model out of it.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything with the dimensions so far in your posts,
with the exception for the dimensions of the magnets, but not the apparatus itself.
Unless you want it this way.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: citfta on January 03, 2019, 01:16:38 AM
Sorry to say that, but I found your diagrams to be very short on detail,
as well as your demos.
For example, even your rack and pinion arrangement looks more like a child scribble.
rather than something people can use to make a working model out of it.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything with the dimensions so far in your posts,
with the exception for the dimensions of the magnets, but not the apparatus itself.
Unless you want it this way.

I am amazed at how ungrateful some people are.  Floor has freely given you a lot of information he has collected by study and actual experiments.  No where have I seen where he suggested he was giving plans for a working device.  He is just freely sharing what he has learned.  It is up to those of us following his work to decide if we want to try and apply what he is FREELY sharing.  Please show some respect for his efforts.

Carroll
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on January 03, 2019, 02:51:31 AM
I am amazed at how ungrateful some people are.  Floor has freely given you a lot of information he has collected by study and actual experiments.  No where have I seen where he suggested he was giving plans for a working device.  He is just freely sharing what he has learned.  It is up to those of us following his work to decide if we want to try and apply what he is FREELY sharing.  Please show some respect for his efforts.

Carroll

This is a forum for a free exchange of the information, and obviously Floor wanted
it this way, to create an exchange of the ideas.
However, based on his materials, I'm not convinced that his ideas have merit.
I've red through his documentation, and still don't understand how his shielding
works.
He says , that it works by the neutralization of forces, but his shield consisting
of the perpendicular magnet just adds an extra forces to the set up,
rather than neutralizing them, even though it may freely move in and out as it
was shown.
On the other hand, a shield consisting of the magnetic material may have problems
of its own, by not being able to  move freely within the setup.
 In other words, more data is needed to substantiate Floor's ideas,
rather than providing prophecies.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: gyulasun on January 03, 2019, 04:52:49 PM
Dear telecom,
sorry to chime in, you say you still do not understand how his shielding works and you are not convinced his ideas have merit.

This being the case, you either obtain some cheap ceramic magnets with the correct magnetic poles and start doing some tests or just abandon his ideas and step on to other designs. If you choose the tinkering way you get into the best position to figure out how one magnet can shield two others and what forces are involved and how to solve the mechanical requirements.  This is the only way for you to understand his setup
Once you understand, you can work from that point even to improve upon it and further develop. 

Happy New Year to you and yours.

Gyula
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: norman6538 on January 03, 2019, 05:44:39 PM
I am amazed at how ungrateful some people are.  Floor has freely given you a lot of information he has collected by study and actual experiments.  No where have I seen where he suggested he was giving plans for a working device.  He is just freely sharing what he has learned.  It is up to those of us following his work to decide if we want to try and apply what he is FREELY sharing.  Please show some respect for his efforts.





Carroll
Thanks,
Carroll I agree with you. I am a bencher and I have boxes and boxes of experiments that I did.
But today we have masses of keyboarders who know it all. I usually say "I don't understand" or
"I did this and these are my results" Without naming the person  I was banned from a group
because I asked questions. I lost all respect for that person - sure had a short fuse the made
a quick explosion.

I have a list of 15 or 20 names that I have great respect for and they do not flare up and call people
names.
Norman
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on January 03, 2019, 07:55:44 PM
Dear telecom,
sorry to chime in, you say you still do not understand how his shielding works and you are not convinced his ideas have merit.

This being the case, you either obtain some cheap ceramic magnets with the correct magnetic poles and start doing some tests or just abandon his ideas and step on to other designs. If you choose the tinkering way you get into the best position to figure out how one magnet can shield two others and what forces are involved and how to solve the mechanical requirements.  This is the only way for you to understand his setup
Once you understand, you can work from that point even to improve upon it and further develop. 

Happy New Year to you and yours.


Gyula

To make long story short, I think magnetic shielding have some merits.
I made a simple contraption and it does appear that it can make a repulsive force much smaller.
See attached.
Happy new year to you as well, Gyula!
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 04, 2019, 11:13:03 PM
To make long story short, I think magnetic shielding have some merits.
I made a simple contraption and it does appear that it can make a repulsive force much smaller.
See attached.
Happy new year to you as well, Gyula!

Thank you Telecom,  your last post / photos are a real contribution.

Not conclusive, but may have shown you that the concepts and designs have enough validity to merit a next step / build.

Some explanation...

A force does not expend and is not an expenditure of energy unless some thing is changed by that force......

Typically that change is described as motion, as a displacement along the direction of the force. 
                                        No motion = no work done and = no energy expended...

As an example consider.....   An auto mobile raised up, upon a lift.    Rotation of it's drive wheels has been completely locked.  The engine is running,
the manual transmission is engaged, but the clutch is not engaged.  Now the clutch is let out.  Once the clutch is engaged, no work / energy is expended by the engine.
Because its engine stops running.  No energy is then expended.   The engine must turn or there is no energy expended.  No motion = no work done and = no energy expended...

During the shielding magnet insertions and removals....  because of near balance between attraction and repulsion no work (nearly so) is done against magnetic forces....
Because forces are not present in the line / direction in which the shield is moved.

There ARE forces at right angles to those motions of the shielding magnet's insertion / removal.  But one does not fight them / and no work is done and no energy is expended
by or against or because of those forces.

This is because work = force times displacement.  If displacement = zero then energy expended also = zero....

There is an increase in friction upon the sliding  track system/s.  But even this increase, can be eliminated by dual / opposing systems.

One expends 1 joule of energy to lift a 102 gram sphere by 1 meter.  It requires no LIFTING ENERGY to move that 102 grams at a right angle to gravity's pull.
One then expends energy.....  only in accelerating that 102 gram sphere (side ways).  That expenditure is then,  only to over come friction  and / or inertia.

                     best wishes
                                   floor




Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 04, 2019, 11:20:19 PM
Corrected drawings of a variation of the force shield designs.

Please find the attached "MagForceShieldAttractFix 2-2.pdf"

                     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 07, 2019, 07:47:09 PM
Two files / drawing sets that give some explanations of force direction, force neutralization, energy expenditure as the overcoming inertia......  and energy density

Please find the 2 attached files  "Undesired forces 1.PNG"  and  "LowAccelerationHighForce.PDF"

                     best wishes
                               floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 07, 2019, 10:29:27 PM


@ all readers

               Please find below.....     the attached PDF file
   
                                          "LowAccelerationHighForce 2.pdf"

         It contains a correction / change of the previous version "LowAccelerationHighForce.pdf" on the last page (4)

                     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 09, 2019, 08:37:13 PM
@ All readers


There are 13 different.... short videos at the link (below),
which demonstrate a variety of these magnet interactions.


            https://www.dailymotion.com/search/seethisvid/videos

                        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 11, 2019, 08:19:23 PM
@Telecom

Magnets although they exhibit behaviors which are some times analogous to of levers and springs,
there are major differences in those behaviors.  Effects and / or results are some times startling / unexpected.


          floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 15, 2019, 09:27:42 PM


These devices, methods, and designs which are novel are given into the public domain.

The drawings, written descriptions, other texts, and videos are also given into the public domain.

Any use of, including reproduction of, copying of, replication of, distribution of, commercial
manufacture of, sales of, personal use of, is granted, except that any changes or additions made to
the drawings, written descriptions, other texts, and videos must not be attributed to presented
as being of the original form or content of the drawings, written descriptions, other texts, videos or
presentations.  Changes and additions must be clearly indicated as being such.

I assume no responsibility or liability for any application made of these technologies
or devices.

I make no guarantees as to the function ability of any of these devices, methods, and
designs.

Some of the presented devices work as claimed, others do not.  Neither do I assume any
responsibility for any personal injury or property damage, direct or consequential.

I make no guarantees as to the correctness or accuracy of any of the information or
concepts presented.  Some of the information is as claimed, other parts may be
incorrect or incomplete or inaccurate. 

Any choice to distribute the materials is at the sole risk and discretion of any
person distributing them and in so doing that person agrees to assume any
liability for their content or application.

Please find the attached PDF files

"Parallel and Series.PDF"     and     "Parallel and Series x2.PDF"

ALSO a short new video @          https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x70pgaf

                        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 15, 2019, 09:52:43 PM
A link  (from 2016)  posted by user LankaTV on another topic

http://license.umn.edu/technologies/20120016_iron-nitride-permanent-magnet-alternative-to-rare-earth-and-neodymium-magnets

                         floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 17, 2019, 12:09:53 AM
4 drawings / flow charts

                   floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 17, 2019, 12:25:26 AM
Sorry... only two ot the drawings would upload
           
                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: gyulasun on January 17, 2019, 12:37:44 AM

Dear Floor,
Probably the problem is the picture size. both your pictures have 2556x3300  pixel mumbers and the horizontal pixel number allowed
for this forum is 900x  only instead of your 2556x
You may wish to use Windows Paint picture Editor to down size the pictures and then reupload them. You can remove the big pictures
when you go to the Modify icon on the upperright hand side corner of your post (scroll horizontally to the end).
Gyula
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 17, 2019, 12:41:41 AM


Attempting shrunken size images

             floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 17, 2019, 12:44:07 AM
Thank you Gyula
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 18, 2019, 10:12:41 PM
Presented below is a set of interactions limited to 4 magnets.

Use of more than 4 magnets becomes problematic

Please find the attached "problematic.PDF" file attached below.

                     floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: lancaIV on January 20, 2019, 07:36:18 PM
Magnets and motion :
probably 4d modelling usefull for later real modell comparison

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19851003&CC=DE&NR=3435068A1&KC=A1#

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19720623&CC=FR&NR=2112768A5&KC=A5#

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19970821&CC=DE&NR=19605730A1&KC=A1#
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 24, 2019, 08:08:28 PM
Thank you LankaTV

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 24, 2019, 08:15:53 PM
  One more

        floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 24, 2019, 08:34:51 PM
To watch videos of some of these magnet interactions go to https://www.dailymotion.com/us 


Then search for my channel which is   seethisvid

              floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 26, 2019, 12:18:43 AM
This link should take you directly to my channel..

                               https://www.dailymotion.com/search/seethisvid

Also....  At the bottom of the previous page of this topic (page 10) there are four pages of diagrams
of a magnet interaction set.  In this design,  BOTH the (ordinarily illustrated as )  shielding magnet group.... and the fixed /output
magnet group produce / output work. 

                     This design / method, approximately DOUBLES THE OUTPUT TO INPUT RATIO of any previous designs.

Please pay especial attention to the MAGNET ORIENTATIONS within the two magnet groups ,  particularly as compared to
the orientations presented in the PDF file "problematic.pdf"  (at the top of this page).

                            regards
                                    floor

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 26, 2019, 08:05:35 PM
Here are four drwaings diagraming a mode in which output is via magnet attractions.

Output is by two sets of magnets.  Each magnet set is operating as attractions in series.

Operations of these two sets are simultanious to one another.

The output of these two series attractions are combined as a single parallel force output.

                          floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 26, 2019, 08:14:23 PM
4 jpegs
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Low-Q on January 27, 2019, 01:28:09 AM
I think you got some polarity issues in your drawings. Some of the magnets suddenly swap polarity during the cycle. Did I miss out something, or is it just a minor drawing error?


Vidar
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 27, 2019, 04:17:56 PM
Thanks Vidar

Its an error in the drawing.   The magnets are not supposed to
change in their polar orinetations (or flip).

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 27, 2019, 10:51:36 PM
Here are thos drawings corrected

         floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on January 31, 2019, 11:57:57 PM
Starting on page 5, but ...... specifically on page 6 of this topic are 3 files....


Instead of these 3 files as (ForceGraphing 2-2c numbers 1, 2 and 3 PDF)

here is a lower resolution file, which includes all 3 parts in one file.

I think the materials are easier to follow / the explanation, more fluid, when read in a single
read through. (no interuption while opening the next file).

                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 12, 2019, 12:34:09 AM
a video I posted a year or two ago ?, but later took down.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x728wd9

                floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 12, 2019, 08:31:36 PM
Two previously presented methods... the drawings reworked cleaned up.

    floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on February 14, 2019, 03:14:28 AM
Nice set up, but it would be useful to measure the actual force of inserting/removing
central magnet.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 14, 2019, 08:38:45 PM
@Telecom

There are no measurements taken by me of that particular magnet interaction set ................
                                                and
if you are referring to this video ? ...... https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x728wd9
                                               and these drawings .......  https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/dlattach/attach/171897/

The operating principles are very similar to these actions / function for the same kind of reasons.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

                 floor
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on February 16, 2019, 03:32:28 PM
@Telecom

There are no measurements taken by me of that particular magnet interaction set ................
                                                and
if you are referring to this video ? ...... https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x728wd9
                                               and these drawings .......  https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/dlattach/attach/171897/

The operating principles are very similar to these actions / function for the same kind of reasons.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q

                 floor
I like this recent approach for its compactness.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on February 20, 2019, 07:46:15 PM
@Telecom

There is a lot of force between those two magnet stacks, and with only two magnets as the shield
it is working effectively.

Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on March 01, 2019, 09:27:47 PM
@Telecom

There is a lot of force between those two magnet stacks, and with only two magnets as the shield
it is working effectively.
stack of the magnets have only 2 poles, not the multiple poles as on the picture.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on March 06, 2019, 12:40:33 AM
The magnetic field of the shield becomes distorted when two main magnets are close by,
this causes resistance when the above shield is removed.
Floor just needs to measure the actual forces at his set up, to see if this arrangement is workable.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on March 06, 2019, 04:00:15 AM
Found some interesting material related to the magnet force measurements.
https://freeenergycommunity.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/kedron_eden_project.pdf
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: telecom on March 07, 2019, 06:13:29 PM
Found some interesting material related to the magnet force measurements.
https://freeenergycommunity.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/kedron_eden_project.pdf

There is an explanation there which says that magnet interaction  force is dependent
on the density of the magnetic field in the area.
This is actually similar to a TD drive concept and may explain it.
Title: Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
Post by: Floor on March 21, 2019, 09:46:45 PM
Please find the attached file "MagForShldComplex 2.PDF"

Some drawings cleaned up / combined into a single PDF file.
 

             floor