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Author Topic: Magnets, motion and measurement  (Read 63284 times)

Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #330 on: September 16, 2019, 01:48:16 AM »
Hi artv,


You are correct I did not measure the force required to move the shielding magnet back into the shielding position.  I over looked that measurement.  But I am pretty sure it is almost the same as the force required to remove it from between the magnets.  I am going by the feel of it from the many times I have inserted and removed that magnet.


I am not sure what you mean about not measuring the force of the sliding magnet.  I made several measurements of the force required to move it up to the shield magnet and the force required to move it the same distance without the shield magnet.  The difference in force required between those two situations is what I think makes this an interesting study.  The force that will be applied to the sliding magnet when the shield magnet is removed is going to be the same as the force shown when pulling the slide into the same position it would be when the shield magnet is in place.


In other words the force that will be applied to the slide when the shield magnet is removed is about 5 to 6 times the force needed to get it back into that position because of the neutralizing effect of the shield magnet which really should be called a force balancing magnet as like I said in the video it really isn't a shield.  But calling it a shield magnet is just more convenient and probably helps people understand its function better.


Thanks for your comments,
Carroll

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #330 on: September 16, 2019, 01:48:16 AM »

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #331 on: September 23, 2019, 11:54:56 PM »
@ Lanka TV

QUOTE from Lanka TV   "floor, you can ever delete this " conflict conversation". ! I am only guest  !
"END QUOTE

No worries Lanka TV.  We all get caught up in some troll's baiting once in a while. Your posts are very welcome on my topics.

Been very busy
   best wishes
               floor




Offline Raycathode

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #332 on: September 29, 2019, 09:59:06 AM »
Hi you guys I found this on Youtube thought you might find this video interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2DASGBEHws

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #332 on: September 29, 2019, 09:59:06 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #333 on: September 30, 2019, 04:39:38 PM »
@raycathode

Over unity from momentum ?

                    No.

Magnets can't fix or change that fact.

                floor

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #334 on: October 02, 2019, 05:46:50 PM »
I think citfta did it.

I don't know the importance of Floor, citfta started to make what Floor had written, but the device that he measured was his own design. I don't know how much came from Floor, but i think also something, as also may be something from others here.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #334 on: October 02, 2019, 05:46:50 PM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #335 on: October 02, 2019, 06:58:43 PM »
ayeaye,


Builder and tester "floor" has spent many many hours working with  the interactions of magnets.  He has included many PDF documents in this and his other thread.  He has also posted many videos of his work.  I only tried to apply what I have learned from his PDFs and videos.  If you want to learn a lot about interactions of magnets please take the time to read both of floor's threads and watch his videos and read his PDFs.


Respectfully,
Carroll

Offline lancaIV

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #336 on: October 02, 2019, 07:13:58 PM »
#333 : I think that this "NO! " is classical Physics view related,

Quantummechanically : Quantumelectrodynamique + Quantumchromodynamique. : ' Think/Say never : " NO! "  !'

tempus, locus : in-/ syn-chronisity. ? Wormhole-theory. ?

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=de&sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fm.spiegel.de%2Fwissenschaft%2Ftechnik%2Fphysiker-melden-neuen-quantenrekord-2000-atome-an-zwei-orten-a-1289502.html


Object. ( virtual)  INTERFACE Human
Subject ( virtual)  INTERFACE Human

Object INTERFACE Subject
Subject INTERFACE Object

                   physical " moment " : external or internal impulse ,actio/reactio angle as ° and direction ?

                 movement : not communication ? attraction !?  rejection !?   resistere / sistere

                                     center/ nucleus/core      near/er             far/er


F.e. : a 2 in x 2 in x 2 in N52 Neodym "supermagnet" becomes cutted into 500 0,1 mm thin film plates/foils andthese enroling to tubes :  + / positive pole  and - / negative pole per side

these tube(s) now enroling to a donut : plus/ minus pole  ? outside/inside polarisation. ?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #336 on: October 02, 2019, 07:13:58 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #337 on: October 02, 2019, 07:40:40 PM »
citfta,

I have also spent many hours working with interaction of magnets and with the theory of overunity about the magnetic fields and also in solid state devices, also posted this and my videos here. I show here only my this drawing  https://ia800903.us.archive.org/22/items/Flcm4/pmmbp12.jpg . This shows how the asymmetry of the magnetic field (two poles) can enable overunity. In theory any asymmetric field can do continuous work, this is one way how a magnetic field can do it. I'm sure that the effect that you showed is based on the same asymmetry. I have not thoroughly analyzed your case, but i showed the theoretical reason in the simplest case, involving only two magnets.

I read the Floor's pdf-s, they were very long and seem to contain a lot of useless information. I maybe couldn't find the essence in them that made you to do your experiment, but i likely didn't read them thoroughly.

But you hit the nail, the matter is that you did hit the nail, not Floor or anyone else, though the contributions of others are certainly important.

I see that this is important not only about the magnets, but for the theory of overunity in general. More work should be done on that theory. Because i see that the reason for overunity is always the same, it is that the electrons orbiting the nucleus of an atom don't fall to the nucleus, even when they do work. No matter whether the device is magnetic, solid state, or even mechanical. I also explained the reason why for that reason the energy may come from the zero point and go back to zero point. Every time a field does work, even when you drop an object and it falls to the floor.

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #338 on: October 04, 2019, 05:11:32 PM »
This is the diagram of the citfta experiment, see the citfta'a las video with measurements. The diagram was made with dia.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #338 on: October 04, 2019, 05:11:32 PM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #339 on: October 05, 2019, 01:18:05 AM »
I have been doing a lot of testing of an idea Floor presented in this PDF: 2 Mirror Engine.


I have attached a copy of it to this post.


I believe from my testing this idea may be the most important idea so far presented by Floor.


I highly suggest you study it carefully.  Especially the section about the thickness of the metal between the opposing magnets.


Respectfully,
Carroll





Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #340 on: October 05, 2019, 04:40:01 PM »
This shield magnet has to be thin there, so that the left magnet could go near enough to the right magnet, for there to be enough repulsion. And it should be thick enough so that the repulsive force of the right magnet will not go through it. Exactly the right size, not much to play with.

It seems that by now, several experiments show a small amount of overunity on permanent magnets. This is seemingly not great though, and when making an actual continuously working device, it may not be even able to overcome friction.

Norman was right in that energy is force multiplied by distance. Thus the repulsive force should properly be measured after every small intervals, as it decreases very rapidly, then these forces multiplied by intervals should be added. Or when the speed by which the repulsive force decreases can be found, then this can be used to calculate energy from the maximum force.

Thus measuring only the maximum forces is not enough. I'm also sure that when these calculations are done, the overunity appears to be even smaller. Yet it seems convincing that there is some overunity.

Also very important that for the first time someone actually did measurements with permanent magnets. Though maybe not quite rightly done at first, these measurements are important, Because even when all looks convincing, only measurements and calculations show how it actually is. Like there is a force two times more, but when it then appears that the distances differ two times, then the actual overunity is zero in spite of this.

To convert it into newtons, 1 N = 0.10197 kg = 0.22481 pounds. Energy in joules is force in newtons, multiplied by distance in meters, 1 J = 1 N * 1 m .

« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 09:51:34 PM by ayeaye »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #340 on: October 05, 2019, 04:40:01 PM »
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Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #341 on: October 07, 2019, 01:02:48 AM »
citfta,

I'm sorry but, i did calculations based on what i could see in your video with measurements, and i found that your input energy was 1.76 times greater than the output energy. While this estimation is certainly not highly precise, i can say for sure that there was no overunity. The biggest problem was shifting the shield magnet, that took 139 mJ, this alone was more than the output energy.

Check that the calculations are correct, though they most likely are. I estimated that your two magnets were 50 x 50 x 20 mm, and the shield magnet was 50 x 50 x 10 mm.

Repulsion:
0 mm -- 1 pound 6 ounces = 623.68952 g = 6.11630483131 N
10 mm -- 13 ounces = 368.54376 g = 3.614179664 N
20 mm -- 8 ounces = 226.79616 g = 2.22411056246 N
30 mm -- 4 ounces = 113.39808 g = 1.11205528123 N

Calculating average values for each 10 mm segment, as perhaps the best approximation:
10 mm -- 4.86525 N
20 mm -- 2.91915 N
30 mm -- 1.66805 N

Output energy:
E = (4.86525 + 2.91915 + 1.66805) * 10 = 94.5245 mJ

Moving towards the shield magnet:
30 mm -- 3 ounces = 85.04856 g = 0.8340 N
20 mm -- 3 ounces = 85.04856 g = 0.8340 N
10 mm -- 4 ounces = 113.39808 g = 1.1120 N

Energy of moving towards the shield magnet:
E = (0.8340 + 0.8340 + 1.1120) * 10 = 27.7000 mJ

Force of shifting the shield magnet:
5 ounces = 141.7476 g = 1.39006910154 N

Energy of shifting the shield magnet two times, 50 * 2 = 100 mm:
E = 1.3900 * 100 = 139.0000 mJ

Input energy:
E = 139.000 + 27.700 = 166.700 mJ

Output energy:
E = 94.5245 mJ

It looks like that in theory it should work, as shifting the shield magnet should in theory need no force at all. But 1.39 N that it needs in practice, plus shifting it the total distance of 100 mm, results in practice in no energy gain at all.

« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 03:11:00 AM by ayeaye »

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #342 on: October 07, 2019, 03:02:46 AM »
The problem I had with the magnet between 2 magnets is the geometry of closer stronger and further weaker. To get much power the magnet between had to have some thickness and that makes the two other magnets further/weaker. So I switched to metal between two repelling magnets. It will pull itself in and if that work done is saved it can be used to pull the metal back out and have an almost work free 1. set to do work 2. do work and 3. unset to repeat step 1. and the power geometry is closer stronger repel while the step 1. set to do work is also closer stronger and on 2 sides.

Norman

Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #343 on: October 07, 2019, 04:05:05 PM »
These conversions, so one would not have to search for these constants.

1 pound is 16 ounces.

1 kg is 1000 g.

5 ounces = 5 * 28.34952 = 141.7476 g

141.7476 g = 141.7476 * 0.00980665 = 1.3900 N

Forces are measured in newtons (N), because newton is a unit of force. Ounce and g are units of weight, weight is a force caused by gravity.

When the distances are measured in millimeters, then by multiplying these by force, we get energy in mJ (milli joule, that is 1/1000 of joule).

The scale that was used in that video is called a fish scale, as it is likely mostly used for weighing fishes. They sell such scales in eBay for $5. But it is similar to scales used in physics experiments for measuring forces.


Offline ayeaye

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #344 on: October 08, 2019, 04:31:36 PM »
The constant to convert ounces to newtons, is 0.27801382, or maybe 0.278 is precise enough, if this may be anyhow important, 1 pound is 16 ounces. Newtons are maybe closest to ounces.

The energy in milli joules is force in newtons multiplied by the distance in mm moved by that force. How fast it is moved is not important, only the distance and force are important for this.

Norman, yes, when an iron shield is attracted, then the energy for that should be considered an output, not input. Pulling an iron or even a mu metal shield out needs quite a lot of force though. Mu metal can be taken out from an old hard drive, at least this is how i got it.

« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 07:38:04 PM by ayeaye »

 

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