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Author Topic: Magnets, motion and measurement  (Read 67074 times)

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #195 on: June 06, 2019, 10:24:03 PM »
Thanks Floor, I commend you for your diligence. You are much like Butch Lafonte
a few years back but he is nowhere around these days.
Your idea is great but I never liked the rack and had no way to make that.
I thought of using drawer slides but they are not very precise.
Do you have a good source for the rack?

I prefer robust bearings like the bicycle crank and the front wheel axle because
they are play/slop adjustable.

Butch Lafonte made a scissors like device that had repel on one end and
attract on the other end which demonstrates the balance but it has no use.
Your 2 opposite magnets is a mag force "balancer/killer". It is very tricky to
balance where attract and repel is equal so using the Lafonte opposites
I should be able to have one on each end of a bicycle crank and get them
balanced so there is almost no force to remove the mag force blocker
and let the repel work. So for very little effort I can get twice the work out
and increase the OU.

 My magnets did not come today and are delayed.
So I am working on a bicycle crank robust setup with a device
on each end of the crank to balance it out and that might be a good
thing not to have the magnets today because I can work more on the design
and save time and bench work.

Thanks for the dialogue. You are one of a few who are still interested in
harvesting the power of the permanent magnet.

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #195 on: June 06, 2019, 10:24:03 PM »

Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #196 on: June 07, 2019, 12:04:12 AM »


I am pretty sure there are others like myself that have been following these threads about using magnets for quite some time.  I do believe it is possible to harness that power but I don't comment much because I don't feel I have anything useful to add.  Both of you have been doing some excellent work and I try to follow you closely.  Thanks so much for your efforts and for being willing to share what you have learned.

Thanks again,
Carroll

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #197 on: June 07, 2019, 03:05:37 AM »
Thanks Carroll. I learn slowly but it really sinks in. Floor has really discovered the
key to obtaining useful power from permanent magnets. And by counter balancing
2 or more mechanisms the work required will be very little. What behooves me is
that no one ever posts that they are making/exprimenting on such simple ideas.

We'll get there this year I think.
Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #197 on: June 07, 2019, 03:05:37 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #198 on: June 08, 2019, 08:07:11 PM »
@ Carroll

Thanks for pipeing in once in a while.

PS  I worked out an OU gravity device  !
  Didn't really think it was possable.


Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #199 on: June 08, 2019, 08:41:18 PM »
Hi guys,


I might have something worth about 2 cents to add.  I have been thinking about how to make a smooth moving track with no side play.  I have found on Ebay small bearings in multiple quantities from time to time.  Usually like 12 or so to a set.  Skate board bearings are usually pretty cheap if bought in quantities of 12 or so.  If you get some of them or smaller bearings depending on the size of your project you can build a pretty solid slide or track with little friction.  Your first need to find some wooden dowel rod that is the same size as the inside of your bearings.  Then drill a hole in the dowel that is offset from the center.  Using bolts and nuts to mount the dowel onto your support board.  By rotating the dowel you can adjust the clearance between the bearing and your track or slide rod.  Obviously the rod or track needs to be square and perfectly smooth.  With two bearings on one side and one bearing on the other you should be able to get nice smooth movement.  Of course you also need bearings on the other two sides that are perpendicular to the first two.


And I also have an idea for a toothed track.  You can also get on Ebay various sizes and lengths of timing belts and the pulleys that go with them.  By cutting a long timing belt in to two pieces you could glue one half on one track rod and the other half on the other track rod and mount the pulley between the two track rods.  This would keep the tracks in time with one another without expensive gearing mechanisms.  The kind I am talking about are only about 1/8 inch to 1/2 inch wide.  I don't mean the large ones like are used on cars.  The small ones can also be found in some scanners and copy machines.  I have used those kinds of belts and pulleys for some of my experiments a few years ago when I was trying to get a magnet motor to work.  The motor didn't work but the timing belt and pulley did work just fine.

I hope these suggestions are some help.  Right now I am very busy with some major home projects but I really think the opposing magnet track idea will work with gravity and some weight bringing the magnets back together again.

Floor I am really looking forward to anything further you can add about your OU device.

Thanks again to both of you for your  efforts and being willing to share.
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #199 on: June 08, 2019, 08:41:18 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #200 on: June 09, 2019, 01:57:40 AM »
a section of toothed belt and a .gear

Very nice improvisation

            thanks

Offline DreamThinkBuild

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #201 on: June 09, 2019, 09:03:36 PM »
Hi Floor and Norman6538,

Been following your detailed work. I whipped up a quick sketch of a mechanism for moving the shields. The idea is to make a push slider which the trolley hits when it gets almost near the end. This of course would have to depend on the strength of the magnets and actuation distance needed. Thinner magnets could maybe help. I do not have enough hands on experience with your model so I do not know where the magnet starts to switch from shielding to repulsion( the most likely sticky spot). Maybe this will inspire another idea if it's not feasible.

Instead of the push slider another idea is using a compliant mechanism like the "Airplane" which creates a snap action toggle.

https://www.compliantmechanisms.byu.edu/flexlinks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #201 on: June 09, 2019, 09:03:36 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #202 on: June 09, 2019, 09:30:49 PM »
Thanks  Dreamthinkbuild. Nice drawing.  My problem now is I cannot
get the magnets to balance well and the closer or stronger magnets
I use the worse that is. I realize that not all magnets are identical in
power.

Norman

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #203 on: June 10, 2019, 03:26:14 PM »
@ all readers

The sliding fixtures used must be rigid before you can get good results. 

Flexing of the magnets from their positions can mess things up quicker than just about any thing else.  Powerful neo magnets require high precision / very strong fixtures.
                                           Use of ceramic magnets recommended.

There is a ratio between the surface area magnets and their flux density.  Yes
                                           Use of ceramic magnets recommended.

Small and yet powerful magnets (neos) are very difficult to align precisely enough to get good results. 

A larger surface area of the magnets makes a workable alignment easier, because it allows for more margin of error in alignment.
                    example
A miss alignment of 1/16 inch off,  out of a 1 inch by 1 inch surface area, is off by 1/16. 
A miss alignment of 1/16 inch off, out of a 2 inch by 2 inch surface area, is like being off by 1/32 if the magnet were instead, a 1 inch by 1 inch surface area.                                                                   

A miss alignment by 1/32 inch might be well within a tolerable / workable limit when using 1 and 7/8 inch  by 5/8 inch surface area ceramic magnets.

If instead, one were using 1/2 inch by 3/8 inch, n48 magnets, the precision in alignment might need
to be within one thousandths of an inch !
 
Also, the alignment precision needed, is somewhat dependent upon which magnet configuration /
 method / device you are using.

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/dlattach/attach/169684/

        regards
                floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #203 on: June 10, 2019, 03:26:14 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #204 on: June 10, 2019, 03:44:36 PM »
more

A misalignment of 1/32 inch when using a 1 and 7/8" by 5/8 inch
ceramic magnet, in some circumstances might result in a only a few
grams of force imbalance  The same amount of misalignment,  when
using 1/2 inch by 3/8 inch n48 magnets can easily result in a force imbalance
of HUNDREDS of grams.

This is due to BOTH, the greater strength of the the neos and the ratio of magnet's strength to
the width of the magnet's face.

          floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #205 on: June 10, 2019, 03:49:47 PM »
One more thing
   thanks
         floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #205 on: June 10, 2019, 03:49:47 PM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #206 on: June 10, 2019, 05:49:14 PM »
Hi Floor,

I have ordered a bunch of bearings and already have lots of ceramic magnets.  I just need to find some suitable material for the rods and I think I will then have everything I need to start some serious experimenting with your ideas.  Thanks again for sharing.

Carroll

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #207 on: June 10, 2019, 11:18:57 PM »
I discovered that one of my problems is I used steel to be able to
slide the magnets into adjustment and that causes some attract back
sticky spot. So I have switched to SS or Aluminum.

But further weaker weakens the power out.
So that means very close tolerance is needed.

Norman
« Last Edit: June 11, 2019, 02:53:35 AM by norman6538 »

Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #208 on: June 12, 2019, 03:28:36 AM »


I found something today I think will make some nice rods for supporting all the magnets.  If you have a Tractor Supply store near you they have a pretty nice assortment of metal pieces and a very large assortment of nuts and bolt.  Today I found some aluminum angle that is 1/8" thick and measures 1" by 1" on the sides and it is 48" long.  I believe this will work fine with the bearings I have on the way to make a very rigid but smooth moving assembly for mounting the magnets to.  When I get some time I will try to draw up something to show how I plan to build the device based on all the information Floor has given.  I have out of town company coming in for a few days so it may be next week before I can try to draw something up.  But I am thinking about this a lot.  Still working out in my head the best way to move the shielding magnet at exactly the right time.  I think I have that idea worked out but will need to make some prototypes to see what works best.

Take care,
Carroll

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #209 on: June 12, 2019, 08:10:34 PM »

But I am thinking about this a lot.  Still working out in my head the best way to move the shielding magnet at exactly the right time.  I think I have that idea worked out but will need to make some prototypes to see what works best.

Take care,
Carroll

There is no continuous motion in the devices I have illustrated on this topic. 

There are some rotation aspects to some design  that were posted in another topic.

All motions and / or actions are start, completion of that action, then and then only then, does the next action begin.

There is No constant motion. 
There are no constant motions.

                floor

                 

 

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