To browser these website, it's necessary to store cookies on your computer.
The cookies contain no personal information, they are required for program control.
  the storage of cookies while browsing this website, on Login and Register.

GDPR and DSGVO law

Storing Cookies (See : ) help us to bring you our services at . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Google Search

Custom Search

Author Topic: Magnets, motion and measurement  (Read 140921 times)

Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3605
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2017, 09:17:18 PM »
Kind of relating back your DNA analogy
I look at the "field lines" as being a manifestation
Or reflection of individual magnetic field paths
From pole to pole, consisting of a helical construct
Containing oppositely transitioning N and S pole
Flux packets.

Which are, yes, ultimately propagated by individual atoms.
You bring up an interesting point with the 'randomness'
It is important to realize that, as best we try, not all of the
Atoms in our magnetic material are "magnetized" or polarized
In the desired vector. But rather a majority, that causes the
Cumulative field to orient in the desired vector.
By applying magnetic pressure to points along the field
Like from another magnet- you can change the shape of the field
Which is observable as a change in the pathways visible in
the field lines.

Some magneticians use the sense of touch to feel the shape and
intensity. Some use magnetic viewers of various sorts.
The FEMM simulation software generally mimics these patterns.
There is only one person on earth who can really see the field.
He tries to teach us as best he can, the FEMM people could
learn a thing or two about how to upgrade their software.

Until then, "lines" give us a pretty good view of the macro events.
So it usually works.


  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #31 on: February 18, 2017, 01:05:15 AM »
@smOkY2  / Dieter

     I try to make sure that I restate this every now and again...

I am not an expert in magnets nor physics.

     But learning more all the time.
 I have no objections to using a language in common, just don't
want to get trapped in the words is all.


Offline sm0ky2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3605
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #32 on: February 18, 2017, 06:23:03 AM »
In the essential sense, they are lines. But braided/twisted/helix lines
And very very tiny. We cannot really see them. We see an effect caused by
A multitude of them.  The more complex our viewers, the more "lines" we see.
When we get really good at making viewers, we start to see the real shape and form
that these lines make as they wrap through the field.

And this


  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2017, 04:53:48 PM »

The word flux has as one of its meanings ...................."change".
In that context it wouldn't make sense to say ..........."a change in the flux"
                                     or                    ........................"a change in the change" either.

In the context ... directly of magnet fields... there are in general .... several kinds of usage for
the word line. 

1. a line drawn to show a vector direction

2. the number of lines ASSIGNED to specific field density.  (arbitrarily agreed to)
                   (these are the standard which we call "field lines)

3. lines seen when iron filings are sprinkled over a paper covering a magnet.
                   (caused by the polar alignments of the iron pieces their selves) 
                                          (these are not the "field lines" per say)

4. A single line supposed (at least by me), to be helical..... and yes very very tiny indeed.
composed of (some how linked... photons / particle waves)
         (The photon is held by scientific convention to be the intermediary of all electromagnetic events)

5. These helical, photonic, lines, twisting together and taking the form of a....
larger though over all.... less tightly coiled helix ...

These can be can be large be visible to the human eye (but are not actually visible).

6. regions of low density lines (linear holes) (projections the effects of / from the Bloch walls....not real lines per say)
between the high density compoundly helical photonic structures (lines)

Groups of two kinds of lines (5 and 6)  forming both, higher density (lines) and lower density (holes)
regions in the field...and their effect upon seen in the devices presented in Tehoria's demonstrations.
A demonstration of a compoundly helical form.

1. Clamp one end a long (round in cross section) shoe string into a bench vice.
2. twist /spin the free end of the string, by rolling it between the palms of your hands.
The string will (after some amount of twisting) begin to "kink".
3. Do not allow the string to unwind.  Hold the free end between two fingers.
4. With your free hand, pinch /grasp the twisted string between to fingers, (at its middle)
then bring  the free end of the string over to its other end (which is clamped in the vice).
5. Release the middle of the string from your grasp (only the middle).
6 Prevent the ends from untwisting as you remove the one end from the bench vice.

You should now have two helices twisted together.


  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2017, 10:02:28 PM »
Inside the body of an iron magnet there are three, below, considered, regions.

1. the magnetic polar randomly aligned iron atoms.
2. the magnetic polar aligned iron atoms (magnetic domains)
3. the block walls

The Bloch walls interact with both the random polar elements, and the polar atomic
/ domain elements, but differently with each.

The Bloch wall shields one domain from another in a manner similar to the actions
in pass through TD designs.   Not as a kind of shielding which would simply block the
passage of a magnetic energy flow.  Rather the Bloch wall has polarities distributed
around its circumference, which by the closeness of their proximity to one another,
tend to simultaneously present both attractions and repulsion in near balance) to either
a north or a south pole that approaches the Bloch wall.

The Bloch wall is both the atoms in it and the field it presents.

The polar arrangement of the atoms in a Bloch wall is a helix.

The field around its circumference would not be helical, but more like
a cross hatch (a tick tac toe) complex.

The Bloch walls exist only on the inside of the magnet, their effects extend to out side of
the magnet.

The Bloch wall has no photon "emissions" from its ends which would leave the magnet.
But the wall may effect the external magnetic field  (creates a hole in it).


Although I previously stated (in error) that the ends of a Bloch wall (both a N and S
pole is there) reacts magnetically with the exterior elements.  It should have said.... the end is
self sealing / forms a closed magnetic loop.

 Rather it is the helical lines in the field from the domains which readily interact at their ends.
The atom in domains are polar aligned end to end N/S N/S N/S........
The domains are also polar aligned end to end N/S N/S N/S........

The photon "emissions" from domains / magnets, which cause magnetic attraction / repulsion force
are helical.
All three regions have electric charge interactions (ionic or covalant bonding)
the "chemical". 

And again ...............this is just my take on a model.


  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2017, 10:21:45 PM »

In regar to compression within the magnetic field...

There are lots and lost of related videos.



  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2017, 10:53:26 PM »

Quote from Dieter

"Yet another interesting observation: two PMs, N vs S, can use the Bloch wall of a third magnet to link their flux, in 90deg to the third magnet. I have no idea why the magnetic domains at the Bloch wall don't react to these forces." 

end quote
paraphrased quote....

Two PMs, N vs S, can use a third magnet as a  Bloch wall.

end paraphrased quote
They do react.  The net force is zero, because attractions and repulsions are in balance.

They do "react" but  in a magnetic loop ....while exerting little or no external force,
along specific force vectors.....

while also exerting great force in some other force vectors...

but if properly physically restrained.... can not do work / expend energy along those
" some other vectors"....



  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2017, 11:22:39 PM »
@ all readers

This latest addition to the magnets motion and measurements project,
is a detailed explanation of how to calculate the work done by a force that is
changing with distance.  (like a magnetic force).

Please find the attached file   "MagnetForceIntegration 2.PDF"

     best wishes

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2017, 02:23:32 AM »
Thanks Floor, downloaded, will read later.

A little thought of mine, that I'd like to share with you just here:

Simple proof for PMs being able to provide overunity:

Take a PM, lay it down on a table, then lay on it a coreless coil, such as a pancake. Now give a brief DC pulse of an exact amount of energy to the coil, so it will be repelled from the PM and jump up a certain height, which you will measure precisely.

Now take a much bigger, stronger PM to replace the one on the table. Do the exact same test again with the coil. The coil jumps higher! Where does the additional energy come from? From the PM! Got any other explanation? Hehe, thought so.

Total repulsion force is that of the coil and that of the PM. Only the PM is virtually inexhaustible.

Based on that thought, we should be able to increase torque solely by adding more PM strength.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.


  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #39 on: March 10, 2017, 04:55:29 PM »
@ All readers

new video.
It shows an effective magnet shield in action.

As far as I'm concerned, this is all open source and public domain.
All in common...that's the only real over unity there is. 

     Thanks for all of your good input dieter

                 Peace... Out

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #40 on: March 10, 2017, 07:02:14 PM »
Very interesting, Floor. Did you injure your thumb between them magnets? :)

Now as usual, only measurements will tell whether there is any real gain. Which I hope very much.

Maybe you need to do the rasterization of push/pull force at any millimeter of both, shield motion and repulsion of both stacks.

But I take it you mean it when you say it's "very easy" to remove the shield.


  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2017, 01:14:21 AM »

A magnet in close proximity to the coil changes the characteristics
of the coil.  The inductance (reluctance at the start of current flow) and
(reactive voltage spike, once  the voltage is turned off)  are both changed. 

It's difficult to demonstrate that precisely the same amount of electrical power
would be transferred in each of the two scenarios.

There are years of argument on the forum over this subject.

This is why I stick to force and displacement by magnets.

These basics physical properties and their measurement can not be disputed  ....
at least not REASONABLY.

          The thumb is doing fine.

Offline dieter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 938
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2017, 12:21:28 AM »
@Floor, of course, the all PM drive is the Holy Grail of free energy. But I am so desperste, I take everything that brings me closer to the aim.

Collapsing field can be useful, if the coil is turned off right when the magnet passes it eg.: attract by DC pulse, then repell by collapsing fields Back MMF.

Or the Back MMF of collapsing field can be suppressed by a diode.

There is a Lenz drag, but it is a secondary (=weaker) field, opposing not the input power, but the PM, and this only partially.

Whatever science says, never forget: Mankind is stupid and perfectly capable of missing fundamental basics.

Also when it comes to PMs, so it is really the attitude that makes us progressive, inspired or resigning. We crashed on the planet of the apes and we were just told by the ape leaders that "Magnetism" is delusional nonexisting nonsense...

Despite their fancy parade uniforms, I tend to question the truth in every word, coming from those leaders. Because they shaped this world.

Ahh, I' babbling ^^

You know I never lost hope. I may do some alternating hobby activities, so I don't slip into a manic free energy fixation (just because that's not enjoyable), but I never gave up hope. Because hope dies last.



  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2017, 12:22:40 AM »

I'm not done yet either.

I'll put together / refine the next section  of the
magnets motion and measurements book (this topic).
That next section will begin with constant force over distance,
and integration of a force changing with distance explanations.
Then I'll do a presentation of a measurement set of the magnetic force shield,
(in that topic) and also in the (all magnet motor TD based topic).



  • Guest
Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2017, 10:20:20 PM »
@All readers

          Here is my most recent revision of part one of the
                  "Magnets motion and measurement"   book.

It is still undergoing revisions and corrections.  The most recent
changes begin at the last section of page 43, and continue through
page 45's upper part.  That new / corrected material gives an explanation of
and breadown down of,  the formula Ek = 1/2 mass x velocity^2.

This is a work in progress.

Corrections to and inputs to the pjoject are welcomed.
Thanks again, to those who have allready contributed.

I now consider part one as complete.

Part 2 is in the works.

                       Please find the attached file "MeasPhy(10-T).pdf file.