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  • *Total Posts: 514017
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Author Topic: Magnets, motion and measurement  (Read 59626 times)

Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #255 on: July 12, 2019, 03:31:37 AM »
Hi Guys,

Thanks for the nice comments.

Luman,  after reading your post I did try moving the shield magnet very slowly from between the opposing magnets.  And I did feel just the slightest bit of force at one point resisting the shield magnet from being removed.  At what I would consider normal speed of removing the shield I did not detect that.  I don't know if that can be removed completely by more careful adjustment or not.

telecom,  I do not have any way to measure the forces of movement right now.  I am going to be very busy for the next couple of weeks but when I can get back to this I will see what I can come up with to do that.  With these small ceramic magnets the forces will only be in ounces I am sure.  So it will take a small spring scale of some kind.

Later,
Carroll

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #255 on: July 12, 2019, 03:31:37 AM »

Online norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #256 on: July 12, 2019, 02:25:31 PM »
About measurement. I do not like  measuring instruments so I always use weights
times distance. I use washers or nuts so I can easily add or mix them.  I then drop the
ounces or pounds and call them units of work ie. 1 oz. x 1/8 in I call 1 unit of work etc.

My first OU
showed equal weights moving a greater distance giving 180% but this was not the
Floor setup. There is a little loss in inertia staring but if you use 2 weights. 1 to get
started and then caught by a floor and the other to carry through you can get an
accurate measurement.
Best of Luck. I expect my next device to be made and tested within a week.
We had International guests all this week.

Norman

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #257 on: July 13, 2019, 06:02:58 PM »
Hi Carroll,
can you make some basic measurement of the forces x distance?
I like how you make them moving synchronously with the roller.

Hi Telecom

This video  https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gzr2q   doesn't give measurements,
but it does demonstrate the threshold sensitivity of the test bed shown (mine). 

From this video   https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6va1an   ......
one can see that the force to install the sheild magnet is about as small as is
the lower limit of the test bed's sensitivity  (in the range of about 4 grams).

The output magnets can produce a force which is in this range (see the graph) below.

regards
 floor


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #257 on: July 13, 2019, 06:02:58 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #258 on: July 13, 2019, 06:32:52 PM »
Also

The graph above is of the magnets, when facing each other on edge in repulsion.
Forces are MUCH  higher in direct pole to pole magnet orientations (Like CITFTA demo).

and for some reason the graph I just posted shows the force to distance
curve inversely ......  I just grabbed (semi randomly) a graph off my hard drive
(from the Twist drive topic).

So I hope you can see why it is that for all of the effort of doing measurements,
it seems a mute proposition to do so, once one has in hand experienced, the very large
difference between force needed to intsall or remove a shield and ...
the difference in the force between  the output magnets when a shield has been
removed or installed.   

    regards
           floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #259 on: July 13, 2019, 06:53:12 PM »
           ALSO   ALSO

Thanks for the updates / videos Tinman

     @

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmbekUqJcs

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyfD1GiCXU

I think I see your design / intent,  good luck with it.

Note:  Undesired up and down forces (luc's force) will be high, especially with the leverage
factor present as the radius of the gears.

  floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #259 on: July 13, 2019, 06:53:12 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #260 on: July 14, 2019, 03:33:30 AM »
Notes to Tinman's design :

1. The design Tinman is currently presenting, is a design variation
of one presented by user LowQ / Vidar.

2. I think that the device will stall.

3. The shielding magnet array needs to be designed such that it
can be held to a sliding motion which is precisely along a vector, which is
90 degrees to a line which is directly between the centers of rotation of the two gears.
That vector must also be parallel to the plane of rotation of the rotating magnets.

4. That sliding vector must also be centered with the rotating magnets in terms of up and down.
( by up and down I mean, parallel to the axis of rotation of the rotating magnets)
 
5. The first implementation of it should have only 2 magnets on each gear, 4 total.
You can always add the rest of them later.

6. The 2 magnets should be space at 180 degrees around the gear.

7.  Gear on left is rotating cw gear on right is rotating ccw.
The shielding magnet /s will need to be pulled back, just AFTER top, dead, center
position of the two repelling / rotating magnets is reached.  Other wise the device will stall.

8. The shielding magnet /s will need to be returned to their original position well before
the next set of magnets arrive at top, dead, center.  This is why to use only 2 magnets per
gear initially.

9. Unlike the (classic design /  fail)  rotating V gate with bouncing sticky spot avoidance,
Vidar's / your design will produce energy / can self run.  But only by a reciprocating motion
of the shield.  In my humble opinion.

Vidar's design has elements of the newton's magnet design, but is more like this design
below "rackAction2.PDF" attached below.

   Again best wishes and keep up the good work !
         floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #261 on: July 24, 2019, 11:10:10 PM »
@citfta  / All readers
These devices are based upon start, complete, stop motions.

citfta,  in your video demonstration you allow the output magnets to begin their motions
AS THE SHIELDING MAGNET IS BEING REMOVED.  Because of this, your demonstration is NOT ACTUALLY
ONE OF THE MAGNET INTERACTIONS I have been presenting. 

The DEVICE ITSELF is representative of a particular design.
The modality of its operation is not.

If however you will hold back the expansion of / between the output magnets, until the shielding magnet has
been COMPLETELY removed,  your build would THEN, be functioning in accord with the described manner of
operation / modality.

Very nice demonstration.  Very nice build. Your device illustrates certain actions splendidly.

If you can find the time to do so, would you video / redemonstrate the actions with the output magnets
held back, until after the shielding magnet has been completely withdrawn.

This is a CRITICAL element of the designs, and it seem that most every one has not and does not at this
point, realize this.

Again
  Thank you very much for your build and demonstration !

          regards
                     floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #261 on: July 24, 2019, 11:10:10 PM »
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Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #262 on: July 27, 2019, 01:38:55 AM »
Hi Floor,

Sorry for the slow response.  I have been on vacation for 9 days with my wife and two granddaughters.  Here is the video you asked for.  I have made one change since the last video.  I did add another magnet to each of the repelling magnets.  The action is much stronger now with a little increase in the effort to remove the shield magnet.   Also I see now that I only have to move the shield magnet a very short distance before the other magnets start to repel.  A short quick movement of the shield magnet gets a very quick response from the repelling magnets.  You can see this in the video.

https://youtu.be/tUHtlruVSus

Enjoy the short show,
Carroll

Online norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #263 on: July 27, 2019, 11:44:56 AM »
Nice work Carroll, now you need to measure the work in and out.
And if you pair 2 of these together like Lafonte you can reduce the work in.

But those magnets are thick and further weaker applies to the power out.
If you could shave off 1/8 inch of the magnet it could make a difference
but I don't know how to  do that - BUT IF YOU TRY BE CAREFUL OF FRAGMENTS
GETTING INTO YOUR EYES.

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #263 on: July 27, 2019, 11:44:56 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #264 on: July 27, 2019, 06:56:28 PM »
Nice work Carroll, now you need to measure the work in and out.
Norman

@ Norman

I think it's not a good idea for you to be telling user CITFTA what he"needs to do"

@CITFTA

Thanks for the new video.  It a major / critical point of importance.

I am certain you are allready aware, but the force between the repelling output magnets drops off rapidly with distance. 

If the shield is still partially in place as those repelling magnets are moving farther apart, the force in that repelling is not at the maximum as it could have been, if the shield were completely absent. 

By the time the shield is completely out of the way, that maximum force is lost for good, because the outout magnets have allready moved beyond the point of their maximum
repelling force.


ALso

Sorry I wasn't communicating very clearly at an earlier point but

What I intended to convey, about adding another magnet, was to place it in the shield position.
                  Like in this attached pdf file below "MagForceShield 6.pdf"

   best wishes
           floor

Online norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #265 on: July 27, 2019, 07:55:55 PM »
Floor and Butch Lafonte I want to thank each one of you for all the different designs that have great possibility for free power. You two have kept the hope of free
non polluting power alive...

A quick and dirty in vs out measurement on my Lafonte Cascaded device show
1 unit in and 4 units out. Even 1:3 would be very good.

Norman


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #265 on: July 27, 2019, 07:55:55 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #266 on: July 27, 2019, 08:13:51 PM »
OkY DOKE Norman


@citfta
 png file below

1. two magnets stacked edge to edge.
2. one magnet is above the other.
3. polarities are alternated on the broad face.
4. they will attract to one anther in that arrangement.
5. they slide side ways (in your device) into between the output magnets.
6. the line / junction of these two shielding magnets, should be centered
precisely between the output magnets in the VERTICLE plane.
7. and of course, as parallel to the faces of the output magnet as can be managed.

Note: a single shield magnet tends to be over powered by two out put magnets.
there are other important factors (why the shield magnets alternate face polarities)
which are too much to discuss right now.

       regards
           floor

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #267 on: July 30, 2019, 09:24:08 AM »
Hi Floor,

Sorry for the slow response.  I have been on vacation for 9 days with my wife and two granddaughters.  Here is the video you asked for.  I have made one change since the last video.  I did add another magnet to each of the repelling magnets.  The action is much stronger now with a little increase in the effort to remove the shield magnet.   Also I see now that I only have to move the shield magnet a very short distance before the other magnets start to repel.  A short quick movement of the shield magnet gets a very quick response from the repelling magnets.  You can see this in the video.

https://youtu.be/tUHtlruVSus

Enjoy the short show,
Carroll
Can you demonstrate how the two opposing magnets react if you push them only half way (Or any place between fully open and fully closed) towards eachother, while the shield magnet is in place?


Vidar

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #268 on: July 31, 2019, 10:50:53 PM »
Can you demonstrate how the two opposing magnets react if you push them only half way (Or any place between fully open and fully closed) towards eachother, while the shield magnet is in place?


Vidar

Thats the right direction / point LowQ

As he ORIGINALLY configured it, citfta's build should NOT operate in a smooth / linear manner,
NOR should it produce a net gain in energy.

As LAST configured, CITFTA's build should NOT operate in a smooth / linear manner,
NOR should it produce a net gain in energy.

     floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #269 on: July 31, 2019, 10:55:26 PM »
This configuration of the design which citfa's build most resembles, was uploaded (by me)
on May 14 / 2019

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/dlattach/attach/172888/


 

OneLink