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Author Topic: Magnets, motion and measurement  (Read 68110 times)

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #225 on: June 13, 2019, 10:37:19 PM »
I really appreciate the civil discussion that we are having on this thread.
Its quite simple - take and idea and make something and test it and report
the results without name calling and accusations. Then with some critiquing
and suggestions improve it. And of coarse we will always hear "don't waste
your time because all energy is conserved" which means to me the energy comes
from somewhere and in the case of magnets we know where it comes from -
the magnet but after work is derived the reset for another cycle comes at a price.

I am now stuck at bearing tolerance. I use 2 skate bearings and they have enough
play to make 1/6 inch movement at the end of an arm 12 inches away.
some  folks have told me to look for RC car bearings. I'll get there but it
takes time.

Floor I would call your setup a magnetic field disrupter because it disrupts the
normal attraction or repelling.

Norman

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #225 on: June 13, 2019, 10:37:19 PM »

Offline lumen

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #226 on: June 14, 2019, 03:08:23 AM »
Hi Floor,
The setup is the same as your PDF file except the two piece magnetic shield.
A layered opposing magnet seems to work best for the shield and is still easy to insert or remove with no real force.
The only thing I found that works better for the shield is this same configuration but with very thin steel between them but it also causes some attraction to the two working magnets.

That's why I ran the calculation to find the results for the shown magnets. They are all N35's and the sizes shown. The best results were with very little spacing in the fully closed position.
The results would likely be different if using ceramic magnets.

Offline telecom

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #227 on: June 14, 2019, 03:42:10 AM »
Hi Lumen,
 do you have the actual photo/video of your setup?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #227 on: June 14, 2019, 03:42:10 AM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #228 on: June 14, 2019, 04:54:01 AM »
Yes, but of course it doesn't actually work because you cannot shield the field.

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #229 on: June 14, 2019, 05:04:54 AM »
Thanks Lumen for the clairification and experimentations.


Quote from floor earlier in this topic

"The sliding fixtures used must be rigid before you can get good
results.

Flexing of the magnets from their positions can mess things up
quicker than just about any thing else.  Powerful neo magnets
require high precision / very strong fixtures.
                               Use of ceramic magnets recommended.

There is a ratio between the surface area magnets and their flux
density.  Yes
                               Use of ceramic magnets recommended.

Small and yet powerful magnets (neos) are very difficult to align
precisely enough to get good results.

A larger surface area of the magnets makes a workable alignment
easier, because it allows for more margin of error in alignment.
                    example
A miss alignment of 1/16 inch off,  out of a 1 inch by 1 inch surface
area, is off by 1/16.
A miss alignment of 1/16 inch off, out of a 2 inch by 2 inch surface
area, is like being off by 1/32 if the magnet were instead, a 1 inch
by 1 inch surface area.                                                                   

A miss alignment by 1/32 inch might be well within a tolerable / workable
limit when using 1 and 7/8 inch  by 5/8 inch surface area ceramic magnets.

If instead, one were using 1/2 inch by 3/8 inch, n48 magnets, the precision
in alignment might need to be within one thousandths of an inch !
 
Also, the alignment precision needed, is somewhat dependent upon which
magnet configuration / method / device  you are using.

https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/dlattach/attach/169684/

        regards
                floor"  END QUOTE

Note:
When my ceramic magnets are aligned so that the attracting and repelling forces are in a near balance, new forces arise due to magnetic domain re-orientations. They are along that same balanced vector, and become noticeable as a WEAK stickiness to the shield magnet. 

When using ceramic magnets, those undesirable / sticky  forces have only arisen while the
magnets are at very close proprieties. 

I believe that because magnetic force increases very sharply at the final / very near distance,  that  this is the only point at which  the field strength becomes great enough to significantly reorient some magnetic domains.  I did some tests along these lines and they seemed to verify this theory. 

I don't  how the neos behave in this respect.
I don't have any experience in this regard when it comes to Neo magnets.

        interested to see more of your tests / experiments
                   regards
                      floor





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #229 on: June 14, 2019, 05:04:54 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #230 on: June 14, 2019, 05:08:45 AM »
@ Lumen


Yes, but of course it doesn't actually work because you cannot shield the field.

Is this posted in the wrong topic ?

Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #231 on: June 16, 2019, 01:13:37 AM »
I am truly stuck again with not being able to get it balanced where almost no effort is required to move the distrupter magnet. A stack of 3 or 4 gives plenty of repel force
a lot is lost when the gap gets wider and the force weaker.
The round neos are way too tricky so I went back to cereamics.

Norman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #231 on: June 16, 2019, 01:13:37 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #232 on: June 16, 2019, 03:18:19 PM »
@ Norman 6538

Your fixtures / set up is not rigid enough, nor high precision enough
to give consistent results.  Half measures wont get you there.

I still maintain that you should get some one with a wood shop (a cabinet maker or friend) to build you a solid test unit.  2 sliding units at right angles to each other, each with precision linear bearings. It must be adjustable in many directions and adaptable for the mounting of many varieties of magnet shapes and sizes.

No experiments nor proofs from you, can be valid without some kind of setup like that, although your input and opinions still are.

           regards
                   floor


Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #233 on: June 17, 2019, 10:28:37 PM »
@ norman

The magnets in this 6 minute video are clamped and / or hand held.

               https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x728wd9

But what they show is clear enough for anyone to see and / or try for their self.

There are 19 (I think) videos at the SeeThisVid channel at dailymotion.com.

                         floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #233 on: June 17, 2019, 10:28:37 PM »
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Offline norman6538

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #234 on: June 17, 2019, 11:05:18 PM »
Floor, I started fixed mount but that did not tell all. So I moved to one fixed side
and one moving so measure the potential work in and out. The vertical disrupter magnet
must be vertically aligned to acquire the neutral force or it will either repel
or attract.
My rough efficiency is under 100% today.
So here are some things I discovered.
1. the vertical disrupter magnet should be as thin as possible so closer
stronger gives more power.
2. but the vertical disrupter magnet has to be strong enough to disrupt the repel of the
two magnets.
3. Once balanced vertical disrupter magnet must remain in alignment when it
   is extracted to allow the repel to work.

4. I am using 3 stacked Radio Shack magnets because 2 are too weak and
   4 are too strong for the vertical disrupter magnet to release the repel force.

My drawings always work (armchair quarterbacks) but my embodiments ( benchers )
do not do as well as the drawings.


Norman

Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #235 on: June 17, 2019, 11:53:08 PM »

My drawings always work (armchair quarterbacks) but my embodiments ( benchers )
do not do as well as the drawings.


Norman

LOL   The story of my life.  Thanks for the laugh.

Cheers,
Carroll


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #235 on: June 17, 2019, 11:53:08 PM »
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Offline lumen

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #236 on: June 19, 2019, 03:35:46 AM »
@ Floor,
That is an interesting video!
I tested this in the simulator and found amazing results.
It seems the center magnet set causes one of the outer magnets to loose all the force against it while the other sides force is greatly increased.

I tried both ceramic and neo's with the same results, but the neo's were obviously way stronger.
This may be in fact the key to getting something really powerful operating.



Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #237 on: June 19, 2019, 08:52:32 PM »
Hi Lumen

Cool
  congrats

Broad polar faces, facing each other makes a broader path for the
magnetic fields (lesser field density during the interactions).
Too great of a density within the fields tends to lessen the effetiveness of the
shielding / shunting.  Some kind of saturation phenomena, I think?  I think also
that this may be    ONE    of the reasons that the shielding, when done in
attraction modes of output, behaves not as well / differently.

        floor

Offline citfta

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #238 on: June 28, 2019, 02:57:54 AM »


Some pictures from my attempt to build the device shown in Floor's pdf.  I still need to get the other track mounted and then the track coming in from the right to shield and unshield the opposing magnets.  The magnets are ceramic and will be super glued to the aluminum end pieces on the track.  I have used a lot of my Dad's machinists tools I inherited from him to make sure everything is perfectly square and true.  The two bearings on one side and one bearing on the other side seem to make a very solid device that can still move easily.  And there are two bearings on the bottom of the track with one on top to control motion in that direction also.

I am working on this pretty slowly because of a couple of major home projects but will from time to time post updates as I get farther along.

Take care all,
Carroll

Offline Floor

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Re: Magnets, motion and measurement
« Reply #239 on: June 28, 2019, 11:10:38 PM »
It looks like you have 3 bearings for the lateral (counting the Pinyon gear), and three for the vertical.

Nice progress !

     floor

 

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