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### Author Topic: Increase the potential energy without any energy  (Read 44894 times)

#### activ25

• Full Member
• Posts: 158
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2017, 05:50:08 AM »
lancalV: I don't speak about a device on a video, nor a magic device, nor a conversion of energy, I wrote about a device that can create the energy. Here, when a guy post a video on a device, so many people reply ! They don't want to understand, just want magic. Exactly the same when in physics forum you post on a dark hole or dark matter... A lot of people believe in electricity/electromagnetism overunity device and post a lot of threads on this subject, high frequency, non linear basic parts, even sparks ! so it is difficult to understand where it could be an overunity device (if there is one) at final it is impossible to understand something, just dream, dream and dream. The efficiency of a device that can create the energy is very high because you can make a lot of cycle per second. The cost of my device is very low compared to a solar panel if I take in account the output power. My device has a very high power to weight and volume to weigh. And break the law of conservation of energy means an antigravity device is possible. My device is simple to understand, cheap, not complex in theory, not complex to build at least to test in a lab. My device works with mass, friction (take energy from friction in account in a lab is possible), proportional law for the force of the springs, and with blue spheres bigger than I described. And look at the motor of a car now, at start it was a vapor motor. So, my device try to break the law of conservation of energy, only that, after I have a lot of ideas to build the device with electromagnetism not springs, so use the fields directly like that it is easy to do and you can make a lot of cycle per second. Break the law of conservation is the most important thing to do. Not to believe in magic. In another thread, have you, you or Pavel, explain how its device works ? Not a video, not a complex document, just explain very easily like I done. People don't want to explain the theory of their device because it doesn't work or it is a fake or they can't explain, they prefer to believe in magic.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 12:13:45 PM by activ25 »

#### lancaIV

• elite_member
• Hero Member
• Posts: 5233
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #61 on: September 24, 2017, 10:22:36 AM »
active25: I also do not speak,I wrote and actually I am writing about
law and order = applying

Biot-Savart law = Ampére law = Laplace law
amplyfied electro-magnetism

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=20040226&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1&ND=4#

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?FT=D&date=20091130&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=PT&NR=104078A&KC=A&ND=4#
the electro-magnet (in detail,here with foils)
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=DE&NR=20317795U1&KC=U1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20040226&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#

left side image : the electro-magnet (here with foils or coils)
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=PT&NR=104078A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=4&date=20091130&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP#

activ25,I did publicated it. btw.: ex-granted,now free ,"open source"

for mW up to MW devices

clear description:
how to use

Think in an easy manner,as inventor :

you have an idea

5000 ideas
1000 ideas-outings
300 board-projects
----------------------------
150 to market
120 losts producing fails
----------------------------
20 break-even
10 gain-ideas  (gain tax ?)

source: KIENBAUM CONSULTANCE, +/-500 middle/great companies

company-outside ideas ? buying ? the idea,the inventor ?
stealing the idea ? process-costs/time !

capital-venture: 100 knocking trials 10 responds 1 project

you are making part of an investor-round-table and they are in contact
1st meeting
curriculum vitae
outfit/infit ?
a-/de-/re- spect

the free chances/riscs-discussion
project-time-schedule
report
the investor/-s gain potentials(social/finance) and
the society gain(social/finance)
gain=losts for some others
contract conditions,budget
bilateral controle

your degrees - trust and faith will become availed,"polygraphical"
do it also

look for professional "business angel"-s,when needed

Have a sinfull Sunday and future

Sincerely
OCWL

p.s.: good luck,to find your right partners
« Last Edit: September 24, 2017, 02:19:35 PM by lancaIV »

#### activ25

• Full Member
• Posts: 158
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2017, 02:58:53 PM »
Yeah, maybe there is someone in this forum who can understand what I wrote.

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2847
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #63 on: September 25, 2017, 05:17:12 PM »
Have you had any progress with your idea? Done som more calculations?

Vidar

#### activ25

• Full Member
• Posts: 158
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #64 on: September 25, 2017, 08:27:20 PM »
Yes, I progress to find another methods than mechanic spheres like electromagnetism. But my mechanic device in the pdf file is finished, it is logical, and all the calculations are in the file because I used logic, I proved the sum of energy is not conserved with a theoretical device. I don't know what I can add to be more clear. For you it is not logical ?

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2847
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #65 on: September 25, 2017, 11:16:48 PM »
Yes, I progress to find another methods than mechanic spheres like electromagnetism. But my mechanic device in the pdf file is finished, it is logical, and all the calculations are in the file because I used logic, I proved the sum of energy is not conserved with a theoretical device. I don't know what I can add to be more clear. For you it is not logical ?

Well, I'm not very good at symbols and equations. The only thing my gut feeling says, is that if a sum or a product of different factors is higher or lower than the numbers and factors you put in to the equation, the calculations must be incorrectly done.

It must be issues with the calculation. And if the result cannot be tested and proven physically, we cannot disprove or confirm the concept. That leaves behind an idea with lack of credibility. An idea that is pretty much useless.

As you understand, scepsism fluorishes when people can't physically prove a given idea or calculation.

People need to observe physical results. Knowing, rather than believing or making assumtions and early conclusions.

Maybe you should go through the calculations one more time and carefully scan the calculations and factors for missing parts. I'm 100% sure something is missing, or added one time too many.

Vidar

#### activ25

• Full Member
• Posts: 158
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2017, 06:27:27 AM »
Low-Q: it is possible to test this device but in a lab, and it is possible to build one example with real components. Oh, yes, I would like to have practical prove that the device works. I take hypothesis to cancel all calculations, it is only logical demonstration. For me it is better than a long list of calculations  where a mistake is easily done. In physics, even in theory with all simplifications, the sum of energy is always constant.  My device is like a glass of water with water on Earth, I can take hypothesis: gravity is constant, no friction and the energy is conserved. Here, like I need to have a changing in the direction of the attraction, I need the springs  (the springs are there to create an artificial gravity) and it is very logical. I don't need any complex equation or calculation.

webby1:  my device needs to have a function discontinuous, it is very important, in the contrary, the theorem of Noether is applicable and the energy is conserved, so I need to have something that moves outside the device. With your example the function is continuous (or I didn't understand your example).

Thanks to try to help me

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2847
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #67 on: September 26, 2017, 08:00:21 AM »
Stretched springs carry potential energy that someone has put in there. If this is called artificial gravity, someone has done the work to make it be that way in advance. That work is perfectly conserved, as the other factors in the design. Isn't it?
Nothing has been violated. Everything is conserved. Nothing new.

Vidar

#### activ25

• Full Member
• Posts: 158
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #68 on: September 26, 2017, 09:30:42 AM »
I counted the potential energy at start and at final in my equations (and thinking). There is a difference that I called 'e' at final.

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5884
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2017, 09:51:14 AM »
Well, not everything is conserved...

If we have a 10uf cap at 10v and connect it in parallel to another identical 10uf read 0v and after the caps even out to 5v each, we lost 50% of the total energy that was in the cap initially at 10v, when we calc the total power left in both caps resting at 5v. The argument was that it is resistance that burned off the 50% energy in the transfer from cap to cap.  Well thats not true. The resistance only changes the time it takes for the caps to go from 10v and 0v to 5v and 5v each. If we could count the electron imbalance of the 10v cap and count how much of that imbalance is now distributed between the 2 caps, that count would remain the same whether the resistance was 1Mohm or if it were 0 ohm as in ideal conditions. So, where did we lose the 50% in the transfer? And, did we get the heat for free under those conditions being that we didnt use the energy via the transfer of electron imbalance to do any work other than expand the pressure of the 10v cap into a capacitance that is twice the size, 10uf to 20uf, caps parallel. In the ideal situation we get no heat yet we still lost 50% of the energy we started with in the 10v 10uf cap. Electron count. You simply cannot get 7.07v in each cap from a single 10v cap. That would solve it for resistance fault if it did come out that way for the ideal situation of no resistance. But the electron count would say no. To get 7.07v in each cap from a single 10v cap would require and addition of electrons in the system, which isnt going to happen either. Resistance does not eat electrons. Resistance converts the passage of electrons into heat. The electron count remains the same, resistance or not.

So the 50% energy loss. Where did we lose it? There is an article on this that Poynt had found on the subject after he took notice of what I was claiming on this. They say the same thing, where did we lose the 50% as it wasnt conserved in the ideal situation when going by electron count.

So energy conservation needs a better looking at in other situations also.

Mags

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2847
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #70 on: September 26, 2017, 10:24:59 AM »
Well, that is not completely true. If you charge a 1000 l tank with water. The tank is a capacitor. This tank is connected to an equal tank at the same level. The connection is a tube with a ball valve at the bottom.
Now, open the ball valve, and let the water flow into the other tank. After a while there is 500 liters in each. Now you have the same total storage of potential water.
What you suggest, is that both tanks should have 707 liters in each, and asks where did the lost 414 liters of water go, and conclude with the following state: There is lost energy on the way.

The same example applies to a capacitor. It is not only the Voltage (pressure at the bottom of the tank), but also the potential energy storage. You end up with 20uF capacitors with 5V in each. That is the exact same potential energy storage as one 10uF capacitor at 10V. No energy is lost.

Vidar

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5884
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #71 on: September 26, 2017, 10:59:43 AM »
Well, that is not completely true. If you charge a 1000 l tank with water. The tank is a capacitor. This tank is connected to an equal tank at the same level. The connection is a tube with a ball valve at the bottom.
Now, open the ball valve, and let the water flow into the other tank. After a while there is 500 liters in each. Now you have the same total storage of potential water.
What you suggest, is that both tanks should have 707 liters in each, and asks where did the lost 414 liters of water go, and conclude with the following state: There is lost energy on the way.

The same example applies to a capacitor. It is not only the Voltage (pressure at the bottom of the tank), but also the potential energy storage. You end up with 20uF capacitors with 5V in each. That is the exact same potential energy storage as one 10uF capacitor at 10V. No energy is lost.

Vidar

You need to look at it as energy potential(pressure) and the size of the container.  If you open the valve of the water tank that is 1000L there is going to be an amount of work that it can produce if you apply that output. Once you release some of that pressure into another identical tank and each is at 500L, there is a 50% loss. You cannot do the same amount of work with the total of 2 tanks with 500l than you could with the initial tank of 1000L  Here is why....

If you emptied the 1000l tank into another identical tank till they were both 500L, you used that high pressure(due to gravity) of the 1000l to only transfer from tank A to tank B till the equal. No work done other than the transfer from tank to tank. We could have run a gen during the transfer, but we didnt. We lost it, 50%.

So if we do work with the 1000l, the pressure is much greater for the first half of the 1000l, and the second half is the same as either 500l tank.  You get more work done with the initial 1000l.  Same as 100lb of air pressure. You will get more work done during the first 50lb used because it is still higher pressure than 2 identical tanks with 50lb.  We use half of the 100lb and we got more work done at the higher pressure, and we are left with 50lb, then compare what amount of work you get from 1 of the 2 identical tanks with 50lb ea, and are still left with 1 tank at 50lb.  Get it???

And to what you say of the caps, no. We dont end with 2 20uf caps.  We have 2 caps period and each are 10uf.  If we combine them we end with basically 1 capacitance at 20uf.    10uf at 10v and another 10uf at 0v. Connect them together and the total is 20uf. Disconnect them and we have a 10uf cap at 5v and another 10uf at 5v.  Its very simple. And my conclusions are validated here on this forum.

Mags

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5884
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #72 on: September 26, 2017, 11:13:20 AM »
And that is how you do the electron count. 100gal of water div into 2 containers, you end with 50gal in each. The resistance is the valve and it only changes the time of the transfer to leveling out, the valve does not consume energy nor take or add water to the system. Same with the electron count, we end up with the same electron count and the resistance only changes the time it takes for each cap to be equal and the resistance doesnt add or take away electrons from the system.

So if we use the energy stored in the 10uf 10v cap only till it is down to 5v, we got more done with that first half of the 10v down to 5v than we can get from either pair of caps at 5v each

10uf 10v use energy till you are down to 5v.   So we still have 5v left

Now have 2 10uf 5v ea  and use the energy of 1 of them.  We still have 1 10uf 5v left just like above.

So the energy from the 10uf at 10v will do more work down to the 5v cutoff than 10uf 5v can do and in both situations we are left with 10uf 5v.

Mags

#### Low-Q

• Hero Member
• Posts: 2847
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #73 on: September 26, 2017, 12:02:58 PM »
And that is how you do the electron count. 100gal of water div into 2 containers, you end with 50gal in each. The resistance is the valve and it only changes the time of the transfer to leveling out, the valve does not consume energy nor take or add water to the system. Same with the electron count, we end up with the same electron count and the resistance only changes the time it takes for each cap to be equal and the resistance doesnt add or take away electrons from the system.

So if we use the energy stored in the 10uf 10v cap only till it is down to 5v, we got more done with that first half of the 10v down to 5v than we can get from either pair of caps at 5v each

10uf 10v use energy till you are down to 5v.   So we still have 5v left

Now have 2 10uf 5v ea  and use the energy of 1 of them.  We still have 1 10uf 5v left just like above.

So the energy from the 10uf at 10v will do more work down to the 5v cutoff than 10uf 5v can do and in both situations we are left with 10uf 5v.

Mags
Actually not. From 10V to 5V, or 5V to 0V in the same capacitor provides the same amount of energy. The difference in both is 5V at the same capacity.
The difference is time.
If you load the capacitor with a 1kOhm resistor, it takes shorter time to discharge from 10 to 5V, and longer time to discharge from 5V to 0V - actually, it takes forever to discharge from 5V to 0V if the capacitor is perfect. The energy in both cases is equal. When you charge the capacitor through the same resistor, it takes shorter time to charge from 0V to 5V, than from 5V to 10V. In the meantime you have lost energy through the resistor during charging. The energy input is therfor higher than the potential energy in the fully charged capacitor.

Lets say for the cause of simplicity, you have a mass of 1kg you want to lift 1 meter. Lets say you spend 1 second the first half meter. Then 1 hour the last half meter. What is the potential energy between 0m and 0.5m, and between 0.5m and 1m? Not surprisingly they are equal.
In this particular case, the altitude is the charge, and the mass is the capacity.

Vidar

#### activ25

• Full Member
• Posts: 158
##### Re: Increase the potential energy without any energy
« Reply #74 on: September 26, 2017, 12:09:37 PM »
Mags: look at this link: http://www.smpstech.com/charge.htm

But I'm agree with you Mags, it is possible to create the energy (or destroy).

Low-Q: my document is not clear ?