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Author Topic: A PLACE FOR DEBATE  (Read 60055 times)

wattsup

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #90 on: July 09, 2007, 05:32:01 PM »
Here is maybe a very dumb question but for me it will help in seeing the future.

OK, Otto and Ronotte are testing using three mosfet/driver combos. What I would like to know is where in SM's devices do you think he had such components, the heat sinks, the  power supply to the mosfets, the heat generated, the noise, etc. Or can the mosfets/driver combos be made much much smaller in the future. But then how was it possible in 1997. Or is this question taboo? Or we are all right to agree Otto's device is not a TPU but a new power generator called the ECD?

I am also thinking that to build a TPU, maybe it is best to start building a fake one, same look, same performance but with any type of internal power source exciting any form of coil system possible to achieve the end result, that is to light or half light one, two or more bulbs for the same time as on the demos, that could be officially determined. Once this is achieved, then work backwards to work out the autonomous features.  You can put a limit on the internal battery to output ratio or only have the limitation of weight and practical size/shape and see what type of ideas can be hatched. I am sure there are some others here that would be interested in taking up such a challenge and it would be helpful to the builders. Maybe start a new craze. Maybe even launch a new contest. Who can build the best working replica, regardless of power source? Maybe even outsource it to China. They are so good at copying things fast and cheap.

MrMag

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #91 on: July 09, 2007, 06:14:08 PM »
WOW, I just started going through this thread. Who cares what falls under what category?

What I see in all of this is that SM and Otto both have toroidal power units since they are both toroid shaped. Pretty simple. The Cooks coil may not be a TPU, but the theory behind it may be the same.

None of us know exactly how SM made his coil work, so how can we set criteria based on the unknown? BEMF, Rotational magnetic field ... all theories, by us. Even Marks mentions that "he thinks it works this way".

There are so many directions right now that it would be very confusing throwing all the research into the same thread. It is a lot easier following threads with SM, Otto, Cook.... and the replications.

Tim

giantkiller

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #92 on: July 09, 2007, 06:15:43 PM »
With greastest regards to the others you mentioned we have gotten results at the far end of the realization spectrum.
I will portray in order...
Jason's or Otto's 50 turn coil produces kicks. It is a small device for test. No emminent danger but there are kicks.
The GK4 produces kicks of greater magnitude, RE of greater magnitude, high RF and up the scale of greater magnitude. Great emminent danger. Why? Greater production with sloppy control and more complex configuration.
Otto/Roberto ECD coil contains signal and RE control to harness the operation of power control. Emminent danger exists.
Bob.rennips BEMF application control circuit attempts to gain another level of greater control. It is a simulation from what I gather. But this step is timely.
The GK4 which is a copy of the Telsa's 382282. http://www.pat2pdf.org/patents/pat382282.pdf times 3. Each layer/ring/collector is pulsed in parallel by each segment/control coil. It is using the BEMF to enhance the bucking effect.
Onto that add Otto's Mobius configuration. This proved the mobius connection was neccessary for this type of configuration.
Now I notice the 390721 patent is coming back around. What works always travels though time.

The sloppy iron windings actually create wings or sharp bends in the 30awg which point out to the feedback. This makes a hap-hazard RE connection because the edges do not align consistantly with the feedback. Plus the feedback has no corresponding edge for reception. The mag field is just perturbed randomly. So sad but great test.
Now the wing edge reappears in the ECD in a smartly defined single edge. I am impressed.

So what I see is a suggestion being given to the groups. The suggestion being actuated on and a proof being made by someone in the receiving group. That proof then appears somewhere in the future for the next step to create the next level of a proof suggestion platform. All with no great fanfare because we don't seem to catch on that quick until later on.

There are alot of electrical tests being made. I see more results from my tests when I approach the beast from a visual and wave or field generation aspect. Electrically I see alot of tests that can't prove or gain the attention of an advanced step. But that is not to discredit anyone or anything they have done. It just proves how Tesla's mysteries have held so strong until now.

But the predominant factors still stand the test of time. And that is smack the copper faster that is can respond/conduct, Kicks, BEMF, Radiant energy, Magnetic fields.

--giantkiller. TPUs: the breakfast of champions.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2007, 06:36:44 PM by giantkiller »

z_p_e

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #93 on: July 09, 2007, 06:27:19 PM »
WOW, I just started going through this thread. Who cares what falls under what category?

What I see in all of this is that SM and Otto both have toroidal power units since they are both toroid shaped. Pretty simple. The Cooks coil may not be a TPU, but the theory behind it may be the same.

None of us know exactly how SM made his coil work, so how can we set criteria based on the unknown? BEMF, Rotational magnetic field ... all theories, by us. Even Marks mentions that "he thinks it works this way".

There are so many directions right now that it would be very confusing throwing all the research into the same thread. It is a lot easier following threads with SM, Otto, Cook.... and the replications.

Tim

Tim,

I would encourage you to read the compilation, or re-read it again if you have already.

The rotating field is not a theory proposed by anyone. It is clearly stated in SM's material, BY SM himself.

Darren

Earl

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NO TIME FOR DEBATE
« Reply #94 on: July 09, 2007, 06:56:36 PM »
Hi All,

I haven't been following this thread, nor have I read through it.
I have time for cooperation and collaboration, but no time for debate.

Who cares whether
a gasoline car,
a diesel automobile, or
an electric horseless carriage

are the same, similar or different?  I don't.

As the old proverb says:  it doesn't matter what color the cat, as long as it catches mice.

Earl's theorum:  Anyone debating where what belongs has too much time on their hands and should be thinking or building more while posting less.

Sorry if I so frankly and brutally call an apple an apple.

The environment is degrading so rapidly we don't have time to p!ss against the wind.

Get your asses moving on a solution guys, let's pull together as a group with team spirit and stop bickering.

Daren, you now have the ability to make a new topic with your experiments in read-only mode.  Show us your stuff when you are ready.  Nobody can give you sh!t, you are in the driver's seat in your read-only forum topic.  You are logical and intelligent, so I am sure that you have something to show that will be well-tested and documented.  Go for it.

I am gone from this topic, too busy to debate.

Regards, Earl

c0mster

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #95 on: July 09, 2007, 07:28:24 PM »
OL
« Last Edit: April 05, 2008, 10:18:08 PM by c0mster »

z_p_e

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #96 on: July 09, 2007, 08:31:38 PM »
Cam,

I have to say I agree with most everything you've said. Many are my own sentiments as well.

@ Earl, all,

First I want to make it clear that I have and had no desire to debate where projects should be placed in this forum....OK?

I saw a debate ensuing in the other threads, and I wanted to end it by laying some proposed groundrules, and letting folks decide for themselves. I was and am not pushing one way or the other....I really do not care.

Those who have been on the TPU quest as long as I have, and there are a few, know which research is on track, and which isn't, but that does not matter. Research is research....as long as it is for the good of all....it is all good.

So guys please cease sticking me with this debate stuff, I am not interested....thank you.

Also, I am aware of the elite mode we now have, and I may use it when ready. I will also get off my ass when I am ready. Some dive right in, and that is ok. Some wish to contemplate and understand first, (like tao and myself for example), and that is ok too. They are both valid approaches....alright?!

I might add, that while I am "sitting on my proverbial ass", I am trying to help others along with their projects and research. Is that so wrong?

Bottom line is, no one ought to dictate that one approach or the other is invalid.

And in closing... if and when I do post my work, you can bet "your ass", it will be as per the manner I have been encouraging here as of late.

Cheers, :))

Darren

Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #97 on: July 10, 2007, 08:21:48 AM »
Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!

Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.

~Dingus Mungus

wattsup

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #98 on: July 17, 2007, 06:59:35 AM »
Sorry guys I posted in the wrong thread.

gn0stik

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #99 on: July 17, 2007, 09:07:50 PM »
Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!

Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.

~Dingus Mungus

And now your baiting him by indirectly insinuating he's an ass, and there for his assistance is... I dunno what... useless? And the thanks was for what purpose after that lead-in? So you could, I dunno back peddle and say "Aw dude, I was just joshin ya, grow up", or "What's da matter, your mommy cinch on your diapers too tight this morning or something?"

Seems the "take my ball and go home," is not the only way to be childish here, I guess "go for the throat", or "insult your opponents as much as possible" are adult behaviors, and accepted, tried and true debate skills. Who knew? I always thought it was called ad-hominem, and was the most abused logical fallacy in debate. Hmm, learn something new every day.

Hey stefan when are you going to install the ignore feature?

http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=185

@Darren, I agree the ECD has some interesting things that go on that don't seem to go on in the TPU, and some of the things you would think would be classical signs of true energy conversion do not seem to be present.

However to play devil's advocate, SM did say that the otto stuff seems to be doing SM style conversions.

What I don't get is, where is all the scary? Seems pretty tame to me. All I have read seemed to indicate that once conversion was hit, watch the hell out. It seemed almost inevitable that once you found it you would KNOW.. There would be no QUESTION what was happening, if you were lucky enough not to burn the crap out of yourself, have the device runaway, or worse.

I'm still cautiously optimistic though.

Regards,
Rich

« Last Edit: July 17, 2007, 11:53:31 PM by gn0stik »

Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #100 on: July 17, 2007, 11:04:45 PM »
I might add, that while I am "sitting on my proverbial ass", I am trying to help others along with their projects and research. Is that so wrong?
Bottom line is, no one ought to dictate that one approach or the other is invalid.
And in closing... if and when I do post my work, you can bet "your ass", it will be as per the manner I have been encouraging here as of late.

Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!"

Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.


@Gn0s
Are you trying to start another fight or are you just totally unfamiliar with puns?
instigator.

z_p_e

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #101 on: July 17, 2007, 11:29:25 PM »
There was no offence taken Dingus...at least not from that post ;)

I knew what you meant.

Rich,...thanks, but let it slide...it was innocent enough.


Regarding the "scaryness"? Yeah I agree.

If I may take a stab at what SM meant regarding Otto's work, is that it was a good starting place. He's using pulses. Beyond that, I'm not so sure.

I really believe there is much much more to the TPU than that.

Read some of Bob Shannon's stuff on RMF's. If anything, Otto might be stumbling onto some rotating fields via vectoring RF fields from his "antennas", but in order for them to work properly, they need to be 90 degrees from one another. He doesn't have that configuration right now.

Regards,
Darren

Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #102 on: July 18, 2007, 12:21:43 AM »
@ ZPE
I'm glad you didn't take any offense, but maybe I should further explain myself. The whole reason for that post was to thank you for not leaving, without conceding my original points. Debate and tension will always ride high here... The important thing is that we continue working as a team on the same goals and aspirations. I believe we're all on the same page most of the time, but just know I don't hold grudges or passive aggressively poke people. If I have a problem with something I announce it as bluntly as needed. Simply put I'm overly passionate about this line of research, and sometimes it shows itself in different ways. So please don't ever feel I have a problem with you, your research, or any other forum regular. I don't!

Well Mannix might be an execption, but I'm sure some members understand why I feel that way...

~Dingus Mungus

Seriously even if I was petty enough to hate some other researchers guts, I wouldn't want them to leave... We need all the help we can get if we're ever going to crack this puzzle. Noob side line skeptics excluded.

gn0stik

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #103 on: July 18, 2007, 12:26:35 AM »
I might add, that while I am "sitting on my proverbial ass", I am trying to help others along with their projects and research. Is that so wrong?
Bottom line is, no one ought to dictate that one approach or the other is invalid.
And in closing... if and when I do post my work, you can bet "your ass", it will be as per the manner I have been encouraging here as of late.

Glad we still have your assistance.
Get it? Ass-istance... LOL!"

Anywho...
Thanks for continuing your efforts here.


@Gn0s
Are you trying to start another fight or are you just totally unfamiliar with puns?
instigator.

Well, I'm not unfamilar with puns. I just don't think insulting someone in the form of a pun is any better than saying it directly. It accomplishes the same thing.

If calling for adult behavior is instigation, then so be it. I'm an instigator.

On the other hand It's good to see it's calmed down a bit.



Dingus Mungus

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Re: A PLACE FOR DEBATE
« Reply #104 on: July 18, 2007, 01:09:42 AM »
Well, I'm not unfamilar with puns. I just don't think insulting someone in the form of a pun is any better than saying it directly. It accomplishes the same thing.

Ok... point is it wasn't an insult. Not even a little bit. It was a pun or a "play on words". He made refrence to "ass" like 3 times in the previous post. It's pretty cut and dry what my intention was, and I've even restated twice now for your benifit.

Remember how you didn't "get it" when I thanked him for his efforts.

And now your baiting him by indirectly insinuating he's an ass, and there for his assistance is... I dunno what... useless? And the thanks was for what purpose after that lead-in? So you could, I dunno back peddle and say "Aw dude, I was just joshin ya, grow up", or "What's da matter, your mommy cinch on your diapers too tight this morning or something?"

Obviously not what I did or said.... Right?
So yeah... Not an insult... OK?

So are you done re-instigating this already finnished confrontation yet?
Because really this is a pointless confrontation with no merrit.
Even Darren has posted he knew my comment was not a barb at him.
I don't spend my time here to argue with the smartest people I know.
But just like this post, when I do have something to say, I'll say it clearly.

~Dingus Mungus